Thailand to bring back Cambodian labour

[Somtamnication]

Come back, our dear Cambodian friends. We know you love being underpaid, chained, living in squalid conditions, pay overpriced rent with your comrades and in debt with the vegetable vendor trucks.

[kamahele]

If only the Cambodian workers knew that it was fairly easy for them and members of other bordering countries to register to work in Thailand legally. However they then must be paid a legal wage which is what these smugglers want to avoid. I feel for these people who are just trying to make enough money to feed their family.

[62strat]

The powerful going after the powerless being cheered on by the Elite .....More Happiness for who ?

[hughben]

I assume they are not paid the minimum wage? Do they have the same legal rights Thai's do (whatever they are?)?

[Rimmer]

One post generalizing has been removed

[Fullstop]

Thailand needs these workers

Greedy Thai businesses too tight to pay the minimum wage to a Thai worker "need" these workers.

[billd766]

Who will be accountable for decisions taken today on these issues? Will Prayuth be accountable? Will whoever is in charge be transparent and accountable?

Who was accountable in the many previous governments to this?

It is not as though it sprang up overnight when the Army took over is it?

[Robby nz]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Yes, you have maintained that. The problem is that you don't have a handle on the problem. The problem is NOT, and the goal of this programme is not to regularise workers, register aliens, reduce slavery and make sure everyone pays his owed taxes fairly. At no time, in no place is that the aim.

The army or the police or immigration or the Board of Investment or the Official Thai Visa Keeping Track Committee all could handle the task easily to meet your goals - if that were the problem. It would be simple. However, you have not understood what the problem is.

.

You are right of course, the problem in this case is that someone or some group is trying to destabilize the country and get at the military.

Unfortunately they have no concern for those who their lies and rumor mongering hurts the most, the immigrant workers who they have scared into running from their jobs and from the country.

Nobody's spreading rumours, the Junta themselves said they were going to clamp down on illegal immigrants, it started around the 9th June, all you need to do is google it, and it's there.

You do realise that you yourself are also creating a rumour and are rumour mongering,by stating that someone, or some group is behind it by trying to destabilise the country.. You're simply "itching" to start pointing fingers West.

The rumor that has been spread is that these people will be beaten and shot if they do not leave, this is what they are scared of.

This is why in some cases their families are calling them from Cambodia and telling them to get out quick before they are killed, this of course only helps to spread the panic "Mum called me and said the army's going to kill us" they tell their friends.

If that is not doing exactly what I posted then tell me what is the purpose of that rumor ?

You appear to know who it is not who has spread these rumors, which would indicate you know who it was.

So please enlighten us.

[Robby nz]

Thailand needs these workers

Greedy Thai businesses too tight to pay the minimum wage to a Thai worker "need" these workers.

If you were to read up on this from several sources you would see that there are interviews with some of those who are running.

One in particular was reported as saying they wanted to come back when they felt it was safe because were getting paid 350b a day in Thailand whereas they would only get 100b in Cambodia.

So not all are being cheated.

There are also reports of strike in the Cambodian garment industry that give interesting wage comparisons.

[jcisco]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Cambodian workers are either legal or they are not. There is no point in the junta encouraging a labour grey market, it only tempts the authorities to extort the illegal workers. The process to register foreign workers should be greatly simplified if the junta decide that foreign manual workers are required.

Very fair comment.

Unfortunately virtually every piece of legislation goes through the following cycle :-

Law written not to be workable or achieve benefit to society but tweaked to provide an income for police / politicians / civil servants nexus.

Not enforced and thus ignored.

Patchily enforced to ensure a steady flow of bribes to the police, politicians, people of influence, etc.

Illegal activity grows exponentially.

Total enforcement with very harsh penalties, commonly known as a crackdown.

Negative consequences as a result of enforcing the law and loss of income to powerful groups.

Back to start and repeat.

I think you will find things are now different...

Thailand needs these workers, but it also needs to keep track of them and who is employing them, and also needs to ensure that the correct taxes are paid.

And ensure that their human rights are totally respected.

And bring labour brokers etc., under strict controls, including proper registration of their business with the said business required to lodge a cash security deposit (say 5Million Baht, maybe more) with the labour ministry (whoops) when the business is registered, to be used for strong fast compensation to any foreign workers who are tricked or poorly treated. Plus a scale of very severe punishment* for anything shady, including but not limited to:

- False information about the offered job

- Limits on up front broker fees

- Totally illegal for job brokers to continue to extract on a daily basis 20% or any % of the daily income from workers who end up in a long-term job (meaning more than one day).

*Severe punishment to include mandatory jail time, at least 5 years and much more (say 25 years) in cases like the fishing boat slavery cases.

Your proposed security deposit is quite outrageous, and would be a crippling impediment to business. And these sort of expenses are best handled by taking an insurance policy over a deposit. The policy being claimed by the government when the need arises if it ever does.

Otherwise just too much cash will be tied up by companies and with most being unable to afford t get foreign labor. Even at 5K as it is in Singapore for a foreign workers guarantee, most corporations here would be struggling under the burden.

And if you do break other laws, rest assured prosecution and fines will follow.

[srchino]

Wow. If all those laborers come back, what a hellish ordeal they've been put through for no good reason.

I hope that the junta tackled immigration reform, for the sake of many types of people.

[tonbridgebrit]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

[swissie]

The powerful going after the powerless being cheered on by the Elite .....More Happiness for who ?

A while back a guy named Karl Marx called this "Capitalism in it's purest form". In Europe, we are in the process of reverting back to it

In the US (the trailblazer), predator-capitalism has already been re-established.

"There is a war going on. The super-rich against the rest. The super-rich are in the process of winning this war"

Spoken by Mister Warren Buffet, the most successful investor that the world has seen so far. If a guy of the caliber of Mr. Buffet issues a statement like this, it makes me think and I am comfortable with the fact, that I don't have any children.

Cheers.

[banglassie]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

You speak like a true Thai with closed ears and eyes..

Maybe you as well forgot the fact this nation is built up of minorities? If it wouldn't be for the completely outdated "Kwam pen Thai" rule, indigenous people to this land could have more pride in their heritage.. I hear many complain about China, but when it's boiled down this nation is just the same. Thailand is one of the last countries that can criticize China's actions in Tibet (not that I know if they have ever done...)

Sad...

Edited June 17, 2014 by banglassie

[Thai at Heart]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

What exactly is that good about it. The fact that these people are still marginally legal is actually disgraceful.

[Fat Haggis]

The rumor that has been spread is that these people will be beaten and shot if they do not leave, this is what they are scared of.

This is why in some cases their families are calling them from Cambodia and telling them to get out quick before they are killed, this of course only helps to spread the panic "Mum called me and said the army's going to kill us" they tell their friends.

If that is not doing exactly what I posted then tell me what is the purpose of that rumor ?

You appear to know who it is not who has spread these rumors, which would indicate you know who it was.

So please enlighten us.

How do you come to that conclusion that I would appear to know who's spreading the rumours simply because I said that Thumper was just "itching" to point to the West?

You could have started all these rumours for all I know, as to when and why is anyone's guess, butt he state of alarm and anxiety is caused has been pretty significant, but the fact that you knew who I meant would also make you guilty of assuming where they started , bottom line, nobody knows who started them, and for what reasons, but to have a huge proportion of legal and illegal immigrants leave simply on a rumour is odd, most people treat rumours with the contempt they deserve.

perhaps it was a knock on effect of the illegals arrested in Chiang Mai, and the rumours originated within their own people? I honestly don't know, neither does Thumper, and neither do you, one can speculate, but that's exactly how rumours start!!

[tonbridgebrit]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

What exactly is that good about it. The fact that these people are still marginally legal is actually disgraceful.

Hello "Thai at Heart"

My point is this. A few posters here seem to be saying that the illegal workers should go home, and get themselves registered, and then come back into Thailand again. So now we're talking about mass conversion of illegal workers into legal workers.

These legal workers will still be competing with the Thais for those jobs. Jobs that pay 300 or 400 baht a day. Now, if such foreign workers are removed, and they are not allowed back in, well, this creates a 'labour shortage' in Thailand. This will force Thai companies to pay 500 or 600 baht per day, and the only people available would be Thai people.

Surely, this will mean that the Thais who are poor, these Thai people will benefit from such a new system ?

See, to me, the foreign workers are working for less than the Thais, these foreigners are competing with the Thais for the low-pay jobs. Why not benefit the low-income Thais by increasing their pay ? Removing the competition should/will increase pay.

[tonbridgebrit]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

You speak like a true Thai with closed ears and eyes..

Maybe you as well forgot the fact this nation is built up of minorities? If it wouldn't be for the completely outdated "Kwam pen Thai" rule, indigenous people to this land could have more pride in their heritage.. I hear many complain about China, but when it's boiled down this nation is just the same. Thailand is one of the last countries that can criticize China's actions in Tibet (not that I know if they have ever done...)

Sad...

Hello banglassie.

Maybe I am a person who speaks like a Thai with ears and eyes closed ! Sorry, I do not know what is the "Kwam pen Thai" rule you mentioned. I have never criticised China in Thai Visa.

I know some Thai people who work for 300 or 400 baht per day. It's just that I think, if the cheaper foreign workers are removed, then the local Thai workers will earn more money. If a restaurant or hotel has lost half their workers, then a Thai man can go there and say "give me 500 baht per day, and I will work here". Is this good for Thailand ? Is this good for Thai people ?

[jcisco]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

You speak like a true Thai with closed ears and eyes..

Maybe you as well forgot the fact this nation is built up of minorities? If it wouldn't be for the completely outdated "Kwam pen Thai" rule, indigenous people to this land could have more pride in their heritage.. I hear many complain about China, but when it's boiled down this nation is just the same. Thailand is one of the last countries that can criticize China's actions in Tibet (not that I know if they have ever done...)

Sad...

Hello banglassie.

Maybe I am a person who speaks like a Thai with ears and eyes closed ! Sorry, I do not know what is the "Kwam pen Thai" rule you mentioned. I have never criticised China in Thai Visa.

I know some Thai people who work for 300 or 400 baht per day. It's just that I think, if the cheaper foreign workers are removed, then the local Thai workers will earn more money. If a restaurant or hotel has lost half their workers, then a Thai man can go there and say "give me 500 baht per day, and I will work here". Is this good for Thailand ? Is this good for Thai people ?

Actually I would hope that to justify that additional cost the Thai worker is bringing something extra to the table that the foreign worker didn't. Be it higher productivity, pre-trained, skilled whatever, simply being eligible for higher salary based on what country your parents are from is a pretty poor argument for labor protection.

Then again I believe Thailand is currently in a .5% unemployment market, and for some reason that has not driven wages up due to competition for people. Unless foreign workers are competing with Thais in all skill levels of the labor market.

So even while operating in a full employment environment wages have not increased, I'd say something else is wrong with the labor market overall.

[tonbridgebrit]

Hello Jsisco. Thank you for your response, some interesting writing, thank you, I'ill give you my own opinion here !

Okay, you write about how you would like to see a Thai worker should bring something extra that the foreign worker didn't. And how being elegible for a higher salary based on your parents birth is a pretty poor argument for labour protection. Yes, I know guys who feel the same way as you, but I don't feel the same way.
Most countries have a system that tries to benefit it's own citizens, and the system does not try to benefit foreigners. Say a country has oil. It exports oil, and the money is used by the government to help pay for health-care and schools. This is health-care and schools for it's own citizens, it's not for people in other countries ! Also, sometimes, a country will try to get foreign companies to open factories which creates jobs for local people. The government might offer tax breaks and other benefits to the foreign company, this is to encourage the foreign company to enter and build their factory.
Basically, the country wants to attract foreign investment, it wants to receive foreign investment, it is competing for foreign investment, it does not want this foreign investment to go to another country !

Basically, most countries have policies that will benefit (or bias towards) their own citizens. Why offer tax breaks and other benefits to a foreign factory, if, if most of the jobs in that factory are going to be for 'foreigners' ???

What else ? A country wants to build a hydro-electric power station, or railways or other infrastructure. Oh look, the contracts for such projects are given to companies that are from that country. A contract will only be given to a foreign company if the foreign company offers a much (much) better deal than any local company. So yes, when they give out these contracts, yes, it is biased towards local home companies, it is biased against foreign companies.

What I'm trying to say, is, is that most countries try to have policies that will benefit their own citizens. Importing cheap labour from neighbouring countries might not benefit the home country. Having a situation where a lot of your own citizens are competing for low-paid jobs with poorer, foreign workers might be bad for those local workers. And who benefits most when all this cheap, foreign labour comes in ? Do the locals who are competing with the cheaper, foreign labour, do they benefit ? Surely, not ?


Please try to get back to me. And everybody is welcome to respond to the above writing. If people think I'm talking rubbish, please say why you think I'm talking rubbish.

[Thai at Heart]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

Yes, many Thai people want to see the illegal workers out of Thailand.

And when they are out, when they are in Cambodia and other places, they should stay out.

This good for Thailand !!

What exactly is that good about it. The fact that these people are still marginally legal is actually disgraceful.

Hello "Thai at Heart"

My point is this. A few posters here seem to be saying that the illegal workers should go home, and get themselves registered, and then come back into Thailand again. So now we're talking about mass conversion of illegal workers into legal workers.

These legal workers will still be competing with the Thais for those jobs. Jobs that pay 300 or 400 baht a day. Now, if such foreign workers are removed, and they are not allowed back in, well, this creates a 'labour shortage' in Thailand. This will force Thai companies to pay 500 or 600 baht per day, and the only people available would be Thai people.

Surely, this will mean that the Thais who are poor, these Thai people will benefit from such a new system ?

See, to me, the foreign workers are working for less than the Thais, these foreigners are competing with the Thais for the low-pay jobs. Why not benefit the low-income Thais by increasing their pay ? Removing the competition should/will increase pay.

I take exactly the same view. I am tired of being served by polish people in service stations on motorways in the UK. This is not beneficial, nor competitive when companies hire directly from Poland en masse. The only winners are the companies.

That said, this fiasco is not beneficial, and I doubt the outcome in Thailand will be that the immigrants will be paid minimum wage. It is embarrassing that a country with a minimum wage of 5GBP per DAY. Yes per DAY. How low can the legitimate wage go for a legitimate business?

That is embarrasing.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[The Deerhunter]

There is a lot of emotive and rumor ridden stuff being written about this.

What I have seen of all the international reports CNN and US today are probably the most balanced.

It would seem that many of the Cambodians who are running really have no idea why, only that they have been told by someone of what will (might) happen if they stay.

None it would seem have actually witnessed any of the so called brutality or inhumanity, none know of any friends who have been beaten or killed.

Some have said that their employers have treated them badly but being illegal leaves them wide open to this and worse being trafficked.

Lets hope that a simple and preferably free system can quickly be put in place to register all the labor that comes in from all the neighboring countries.

For those who say it cant be done consider that the uncivil servants have a new boss now looking over their shoulders as do the police.

Excellent post. All I can add to that is this. With the police/immigration being run by Thaksin from Dubai with frequent meetings with chosen ones in Hongkong and the labour ministry under Chalerm, what did anyone expect? It is clearly in someone's interest to panic these Khmers. If we watch this space we will find out if it is money, attempted pay-back or both.

[The Deerhunter]

Who will be accountable for decisions taken today on these issues? Will Prayuth be accountable? Will whoever is in charge be transparent and accountable?

Um. Will Prayuth be accountable? Yes he will and is. He is unravelling 20 to 200 years of corruption & exploitation and he has done nothing to cause these panic departures. Someone else is creating the panic and I suspect we know who has the organization and motivation to do it, Anything that disrupts the general's good intentions & causes inconvenience & financial loss to Thai (business) people and might make them long for the more simple, good old tea-money days (2001 to 2014AD to be precise) would be advantageous to only one group The only problem I see with the military coup so far is they still have not got their Public Relations branch up to full speed yet. God help who-ever gets found to be the ones who started these rumours. It won't be too hard to find out, then the Army can ask them politely why they did it and see what membership cards they have in their wallet.

Edited June 18, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[The Deerhunter]

If they welcome illegal Cambodians back, then where is the logic when they arrest illegal workers elsewhere like they did in Chiang Mai today? Or seeking farang who work without a work permit.

They need to take a stance and stick with it. Illegal workers are welcome in Thailand, or they are not.

The Chinese in Chiang Mai/Rai today were criminal scam artists scamming their own people from abroard. Most Cambodians are doing underpaid work for expolitive Thai bosses and therefore being expolited. Can you see the difference?

[The Deerhunter]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

It's not about keeping illegal workers out. It is about having a fair legal un-exploitive system for controlling forieg=gn guest workers. One that does not make public servants or employers illegally rich!!!!!!!!!!!!! I assume you were attempting sarcasm. Forgive me if you were not.

[The Deerhunter]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Yes, you have maintained that. The problem is that you don't have a handle on the problem. The problem is NOT, and the goal of this programme is not to regularise workers, register aliens, reduce slavery and make sure everyone pays his owed taxes fairly. At no time, in no place is that the aim.

The army or the police or immigration or the Board of Investment or the Official Thai Visa Keeping Track Committee all could handle the task easily to meet your goals - if that were the problem. It would be simple. However, you have not understood what the problem is.

.

You are right of course, the problem in this case is that someone or some group is trying to destabilize the country and get at the military.

Unfortunately they have no concern for those who their lies and rumor mongering hurts the most, the immigrant workers who they have scared into running from their jobs and from the country.

Nobody's spreading rumours, the Junta themselves said they were going to clamp down on illegal immigrants, it started around the 9th June, all you need to do is google it, and it's there.

You do realise that you yourself are also creating a rumour and are rumour mongering,by stating that someone, or some group is behind it by trying to destabilise the country.. You're simply "itching" to start pointing fingers West.

When I read your post I had to quickly scan back to,the top to see which one of the remaining 4 or 5 you were. Oh yes. F.H, Right!!! Yes, my finger is pointing west. There is a difference between clamping down on illegal workers & starting rumours about extrajudicial killings & brutality.

Edited June 18, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[metisdead]

A trolling nonsense post has been removed.