Tired legs when jogging

[seb2015]

Nope it´s not.

Minere would be, and there might a couple of other brands (including expensive ones like Evian etc) but I can't recall

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[brit1984]

Nope it´s not.

Minere would be, and there might a couple of other brands (including expensive ones like Evian etc) but I can't recall

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

thanks!... i will change to Minere

[sanuk711]

"Brit, i also jog for about an hour doing 6km but only do it 3 times a week resting and jogging on alternate days, this way i give my legs time to fully recover----sotsira".

6klm in an Hour---that's not Jogging sotsira, that's walking.....................The Army does 6.2Klm an hour on a march.....(120 steps x 1 minute)

[gazzasore]

Have more Salt and Magnesium

[ianwuk]

I am 30, run 10km four times a week and 21km every Sunday. I have only been running this much for a year (did the Bangok Marathon full last year as my first ever marathon) and sometimes I experience tiredness in my legs too like the OP.

I put this down to either over-exertion. not enough stretching beforehand (I tend to stretch afterwards anyway), lack of hydration beforehand and during so all of the advice given here is valid but, for me, like transam said, I had to learn to breathe properly first whilst running to ever be able to run without issues. Once I did that I could then regulate breathing with running pace and run further, pain free and in safety.

[laislica]

Have more Salt and Magnesium

Great advice.

Glad I took the trouble to read all the posts before I commented.

Magnesium deficiency will give tired/aching legs.

Take a supplement for a few days and see if the problem is less.

Try one with Vitamin D3 included as well.

The biomagnesium from Boots actually states, relieves muscle cramps.

Good Luck

[freebyrd]

20 years in the army, 16 as a physical training instructor, ran 6/7 days a week, often 5 or 6 times a day at work. I can't remember a time, even when I was a young lad, that my legs didn't hurt. Shin splints once or twice, lactic acid in my quadraceps after just about every run, all part of the game.

Stretch for 10 - 15 minutes before you start, same again after you finish. Hot shower as soon as you've finished your final stretch, even if it's 37C outside.Try run 2 rest 1, run 3 rest 2. We probably all realise, eventually and often too late in life, that running ruins your joints. Brisk walking is recommended these days. In my advancing years, when I do exercise, I swim or bike, a lot easier on the old bod.

All that said, when I was your age, beasting my body and tasting the blood was part of the fun. As with everything, one man's meat.....

[OxfordWill]

Do squats.. like you were considering. It will help immensely. Just alternative the heavy squatting and the jogging days.

Im the same in that I can't jog/run for very long (im 1 year older than you). I have never been able to although have been trying to change that. I can cycle long distance (100km+) in a few hours and feel fine, but jogging at 8-10kph for anything more than 30 mins is almost impossible for me (I start to feel all kinds of weird). Would love to know how to improve it as have once or twice enjoyed the "natural high" from running, but it is very elusive.

+1 for not stretching, according to current thinking.

Wouldn't your long distance cycling give you the "natural high"? With less stress on your knees and hips.

Interestingly (Wikipedia informs me) the runners high is now thought possibly to be a cannabinoid high - ie. a dope smokers high. With maybe serotonin & dopamine involvement. Jim Fixx, the running guru from early 80's, always preached endorphins and increased life expectancy until he dropped dead of a heart attack at 52. Wrong on both counts.

Yes, but to be honest, you have to exert yourself a lot more to get there (like uphill for a long time). The real thrill comes from the adrenaline of joyriding through bangkok traffic..!

Brit1984 if you want to start cycling send me a msg, always happy to cycle and have a few like minded friends.

As for breathing, when I run, I tend to try and stick to the "in for 2 paces, out for 2" or perhaps 3.. I can never decide which is doing me better? Any tips from the pros? I was told in through nose, out through mouth.. but you get a lot of conflicting advice.

[kingstonkid]

some great ideas thanks so much...

weak legs muscles... yes i have chicken legs... i need to do some gym work (or maybe squats in my room holding random heavy objects)

bad footwear... yes the air bubbles have burst on both my trainers but the last 5/6 months coincided with a time i've been too poor to buy a replacement pair... i will try to find a cheaper but decent pair

carbs... i have a big bowl of muesli every morning and maybe half a loaf of bread per day, but very little rice (no potatoes, no pasta)... not sure if it's enough but i will try carbo loading the night before a jog and see if it helps

dehydration... by the end of each jog i am normally soaked wet through with sweat (except only the bottom corners of my tee-shirt) so this could well be an issue, i currently drink 600ml water per 1 hour jog but i will experiment drinking more (or using energy drinks)

swimming... i should do this more, i think (almost) everyone should, thanks for the push

What happens when you cut back to let's say 45 minutes.

It might be a case that along with hydration and everything else your body needs to build back up to that level or running.

[helvellyn]

Hi Brit1984,

I'm a fairly experienced runner and have run and raced a lot in Thailand over the past few years. A few comments:

- You mention that you used to run about 2 hours a day, every day, when at Uni. I'm not clear whether you're attempting to do the same thing now, but I guess you at least have an expectation of being able to build back up to that. In my opinion, 2 hours a day, 7 days a week is overdoing it unless you a very serious amateur or an elite. You can get away with these things when you're a teenager, but even at 29, that is too much in my view. I think you should have at least 1 day totally off running. If you are still in the "getting back into it" mode, then I would suggest no more than 4 days running, with possibly an extra day doing some other exercise like swimming or gym work.

- I was quite fit when I was in the UK and then didn't do any running at all for 2 years when I first came to Thailand. When I went out to do my first run in Thailand I had to have a walking break on a lowly 5 mile training run. It must have taken a good 6 months to build up from there to anything like my previous level. In other words, don't expect too much too soon....build it up slowly.

- Running in Thailand is much harder than the UK due to the heat, humidity, air pollution, dogs and lack of pavement to run on. However much you get used to it, it will probably never be possible to get back to the level you had before in the UK.

- You should be running at 6am.

- Eat about an hour before you run. I find porridge is the absolute best energy food for a run. Definitely don't eat sweet things leading up to the run and don't stuff yourself just before you start.

- I find that some days the legs feel good and some days I feel like I have no energy or power right from the very first steps. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it, it's just one of those things. But you do get to recognise the feeling of being "on a bad day" and just don't read too much into it and struggle through the run in a low gear.

- I note the points made about stretching above. I've never been a big fan of stretching myself. However, I would recommend some very basic stretches before you start. Just lifting up each of your knees to waist height a few times. Possibly holding your feet to your bum. Don't over do it, but a couple of basic stretches like I've mentioned does make a difference in my view.

- Frankly - and I know this is contrary to what some people have said above - but I would fully expect aching leg muscles to be the limiting factor. It's difficult, because we don't know exactly what sort of pain/aching you are experiencing, but I would be much more worried if you said you had pains in your chest. Even when I have tried a long run after a year of inactivity, I have always found it to be aching legs that stopped me and not being out of breath. It seems normal to me.

- At 29 you should definitely not be having any age related issues. You're basically in your prime as far as long-distance running goes. You might be surprised how many ultra runners there are in their 60s.

All the best with your training. I don't know where you're based, but I know there is a thriving running scene in Chiang Mai.

[transam]

20 years in the army, 16 as a physical training instructor, ran 6/7 days a week, often 5 or 6 times a day at work. I can't remember a time, even when I was a young lad, that my legs didn't hurt. Shin splints once or twice, lactic acid in my quadraceps after just about every run, all part of the game.

Stretch for 10 - 15 minutes before you start, same again after you finish. Hot shower as soon as you've finished your final stretch, even if it's 37C outside.Try run 2 rest 1, run 3 rest 2. We probably all realise, eventually and often too late in life, that running ruins your joints. Brisk walking is recommended these days. In my advancing years, when I do exercise, I swim or bike, a lot easier on the old bod.

All that said, when I was your age, beasting my body and tasting the blood was part of the fun. As with everything, one man's meat.....

You will agree that the initial step to doing stuff is the important one, after that "break in" period one will be OK. When I started weight training over 30 years ago I had a list of exercise instructions to follow for 3 months to reduce the chance of injury and get near every unused muscle working.

It worked great, after 3 months I "broke out" and went for it....Long time ago......

[jmccarty]

some great ideas thanks so much...

weak legs muscles... yes i have chicken legs... i need to do some gym work (or maybe squats in my room holding random heavy objects)

bad footwear... yes the air bubbles have burst on both my trainers but the last 5/6 months coincided with a time i've been too poor to buy a replacement pair... i will try to find a cheaper but decent pair

carbs... i have a big bowl of muesli every morning and maybe half a loaf of bread per day, but very little rice (no potatoes, no pasta)... not sure if it's enough but i will try carbo loading the night before a jog and see if it helps

dehydration... by the end of each jog i am normally soaked wet through with sweat (except only the bottom corners of my tee-shirt) so this could well be an issue, i currently drink 600ml water per 1 hour jog but i will experiment drinking more (or using energy drinks)

swimming... i should do this more, i think (almost) everyone should, thanks for the push

Could also be low sodium level if you are from a colder environment and over-sweating. I have had hyponatremia several times over the years in the tropics. Not common, but can happen with us falangs in the tropics. RE-hydration salts works wonders about 1/4 way, 1/2 way and 3/4 of the way through a marathon. Without it, I can't finish the run. Main symptom I notice is weakness in the legs, well, overall weakness.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia

Edited June 17, 2014 by jmccarty

[freebyrd]

20 years in the army, 16 as a physical training instructor, ran 6/7 days a week, often 5 or 6 times a day at work. I can't remember a time, even when I was a young lad, that my legs didn't hurt. Shin splints once or twice, lactic acid in my quadraceps after just about every run, all part of the game.

Stretch for 10 - 15 minutes before you start, same again after you finish. Hot shower as soon as you've finished your final stretch, even if it's 37C outside.Try run 2 rest 1, run 3 rest 2. We probably all realise, eventually and often too late in life, that running ruins your joints. Brisk walking is recommended these days. In my advancing years, when I do exercise, I swim or bike, a lot easier on the old bod.

All that said, when I was your age, beasting my body and tasting the blood was part of the fun. As with everything, one man's meat.....

You will agree that the initial step to doing stuff is the important one, after that "break in" period one will be OK. When I started weight training over 30 years ago I had a list of exercise instructions to follow for 3 months to reduce the chance of injury and get near every unused muscle working.

It worked great, after 3 months I "broke out" and went for it....Long time ago......

Transam, a good point well made. No one can take a break for months/years and expect to pick up where they left off......and the older we get the harder it gets.

[atyclb]

Also important is to concentrate on a breathing regime, you must have a continuous "wanted" supply of oxygen for the blood to pick up to feed the muscle group you are working, in your case legs. If you don't then you will get the "burn". Same with my weight training, was a bit of a learning curve. Seen guys try doing heavy stuff and not breathing properly and get into trouble.

Not sure about that one. breathing intensity and frequency is automatic in response to body metabolic needs. if you purposely breathe too fast you can create some negative metabolic acid;base changes that could lead to more serious issues.

[helvellyn]

some great ideas thanks so much...

weak legs muscles... yes i have chicken legs... i need to do some gym work (or maybe squats in my room holding random heavy objects)

bad footwear... yes the air bubbles have burst on both my trainers but the last 5/6 months coincided with a time i've been too poor to buy a replacement pair... i will try to find a cheaper but decent pair

carbs... i have a big bowl of muesli every morning and maybe half a loaf of bread per day, but very little rice (no potatoes, no pasta)... not sure if it's enough but i will try carbo loading the night before a jog and see if it helps

dehydration... by the end of each jog i am normally soaked wet through with sweat (except only the bottom corners of my tee-shirt) so this could well be an issue, i currently drink 600ml water per 1 hour jog but i will experiment drinking more (or using energy drinks)

swimming... i should do this more, i think (almost) everyone should, thanks for the push

Could also be low sodium level if you are from a colder environment and over-sweating. I have had hyponatremia several times over the years in the tropics. Not common, but can happen with us falangs in the tropics. RE-hydration salts works wonders about 1/4 way, 1/2 way and 3/4 of the way through a marathon. Without it, I can't finish the run. Main symptom I notice is weakness in the legs, well, overall weakness.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia

It's a good point, but I would be cautious about taking salt tablets for 10k training runs without further evidence that it's an issue. Thai food is very salty, so it could even be the other way round and he needs less salt.

[atyclb]

Does the OP smoke cigarettes? Have family history of peripheral vascular disease? Does OP know what AM pre meal blood glucose is?

Is the skin of the legs normal in appearance or is is shiny? Is hair distribution normal and equal both legs? especially knees to ankles. Are knee and ankle foot pulses normal and equal?

Can the pain be reproduced by any leg maneuvers ? eg; straight leg raising

Is leg pain the only complaint? No chest pain or sob ?

[transam]

Also important is to concentrate on a breathing regime, you must have a continuous "wanted" supply of oxygen for the blood to pick up to feed the muscle group you are working, in your case legs. If you don't then you will get the "burn". Same with my weight training, was a bit of a learning curve. Seen guys try doing heavy stuff and not breathing properly and get into trouble.

Not sure about that one. breathing intensity and frequency is automatic in response to body metabolic needs. if you purposely breathe too fast you can create some negative metabolic acid;base changes that could lead to more serious issues.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, an instance, I am an old guy, not big, but for some reason I can press all the weight on a triceps machine, in fact I took a piece of wire to add on 10kg. Nooooo probs. A young guy watched, he wanted to do the same, I stood and watched, he could not breath cos everything he had was trying to do what I can. I said "breath", he said "I cannot".........anyhow, he did well but on standing up he was unable to walk straight, I thought he might topple.......

The guy was in charge of the gym.......

[gigman]

Yes,it happened to me but in different place and scenario.

Not enough of water and most important electrolytes .

I have spent 1 year in Australia working in the desert on Power station construction having 40-45 deg every day under the sun in full PPE .

We had same problems even drinking 7-10 L of water in 10 hours working time.(not going to the loo at all)

Very quickly management teach us what to use electrolytes and this was actually our life saving chemicals.(2 people 40 years old died of heart attack because of negligence taking enough water)

Please be very careful when taking electrolytes .Daily dose should be not bigger then prescribed. Other ways you can damage your liver permanently if overdose.

Edited June 17, 2014 by gigman

[Baerboxer]

Lack of oxygen to those parts perhaps. Leave that stuff alone chum............Jogging really is not good for you......Unless you are in tip top condition.

Take a leaf out of the book of the sad demise of Rik Mayall............

thanks! but i'm trying to get into tip top condition by jogging!

Running or brisk walking will do more good than jogging.

Try them out.

[jmccarty]

I should have added to my hyponatremia post, see a doctor and check your blood. Might see the reason if you tell them the symptoms. Salt deficiency is often my issue.

[glegolo]

I am 63 years old, and can really blame old age. But I am out bicycling up here in isaan and are doing my 2 hours 45 km round each and every day for the last 6 years now.. I have until I figerout my own body had some problem the first 2-3 years with feeling the very same as you do. I just feel powerless and my legs just doesn´t want to do the same thing as my brain instructs them to do.

- First I found out that I lack salt in my body - I took care of that same as you electrolytes

- Than I found out that I had Bloodsugar (Diabetes 2) - medicin took care of that

- And than finally the most important - I started to be much more serious when it comes to put in some protein in

my body before I start to exercise.....

This last thing did really all the difference.... With this heat my whole body is just fighting like hell.... But Now I am just fine And it is really a great feeling when I am coming back home after my daily tour....and I am NOT completely warned out...

I dont knoiw if I have helped you out..... But check first so you are OK in your body...You could also lack some vitamines..

Good luck

Glegolo

[brit1984]

Does the OP smoke cigarettes? Have family history of peripheral vascular disease? Does OP know what AM pre meal blood glucose is?

Is the skin of the legs normal in appearance or is is shiny? Is hair distribution normal and equal both legs? especially knees to ankles. Are knee and ankle foot pulses normal and equal?

Can the pain be reproduced by any leg maneuvers ? eg; straight leg raising

Is leg pain the only complaint? No chest pain or sob ?

i don't smoke and never have.

i don't think any of my family have similar problems and they are mostly carrying more weight (and decades more life experience!) than me and doing just as much or more sports.

i only get pain in my legs and it's only really when jogging or walking very far (one day I went house-hunting around the back sois of bangkok for ~8 hours and ended up with sore legs and very red skin).

[cornishcarlos]

Good thread this, some great advice..

I started cycling 2 years ago and running last Sept. Ran my 1st half marathon in Chiang Mai at Xmas (2h7min).

Building up gradually is the way to go. I think you are doing too many days a week for full recovery.

I have just started on a 20 week plan for my first 50k ultra in Oct, can't wait for it. I am running 3 times a week and biking or swimming twice. Only 1 long run on a Saturday, at the moment 45min but will gradually build up to 4hrs before the race. Finally easing off for the final 2 weeks.

For salts, I use Nuun tablets that I get in U.K. Seem to work well after a longer run.

Gels instead of carb drinks and some solids after an hour or so (home made energy bars).

This is interesting, another though on hydration..!! https://wattbike.com/uk/guide/getting_started/advanced_hydration_advice

Hope you work it out OP, let us know how you get on.

Edited June 17, 2014 by cornishcarlos

[brit1984]

Hi Brit1984,

I'm a fairly experienced runner and have run and raced a lot in Thailand over the past few years. A few comments:

- You mention that you used to run about 2 hours a day, every day, when at Uni. I'm not clear whether you're attempting to do the same thing now, but I guess you at least have an expectation of being able to build back up to that. In my opinion, 2 hours a day, 7 days a week is overdoing it unless you a very serious amateur or an elite. You can get away with these things when you're a teenager, but even at 29, that is too much in my view. I think you should have at least 1 day totally off running. If you are still in the "getting back into it" mode, then I would suggest no more than 4 days running, with possibly an extra day doing some other exercise like swimming or gym work.

- I was quite fit when I was in the UK and then didn't do any running at all for 2 years when I first came to Thailand. When I went out to do my first run in Thailand I had to have a walking break on a lowly 5 mile training run. It must have taken a good 6 months to build up from there to anything like my previous level. In other words, don't expect too much too soon....build it up slowly.

- Running in Thailand is much harder than the UK due to the heat, humidity, air pollution, dogs and lack of pavement to run on. However much you get used to it, it will probably never be possible to get back to the level you had before in the UK.

- You should be running at 6am.

- Eat about an hour before you run. I find porridge is the absolute best energy food for a run. Definitely don't eat sweet things leading up to the run and don't stuff yourself just before you start.

- I find that some days the legs feel good and some days I feel like I have no energy or power right from the very first steps. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it, it's just one of those things. But you do get to recognise the feeling of being "on a bad day" and just don't read too much into it and struggle through the run in a low gear.

- I note the points made about stretching above. I've never been a big fan of stretching myself. However, I would recommend some very basic stretches before you start. Just lifting up each of your knees to waist height a few times. Possibly holding your feet to your bum. Don't over do it, but a couple of basic stretches like I've mentioned does make a difference in my view.

- Frankly - and I know this is contrary to what some people have said above - but I would fully expect aching leg muscles to be the limiting factor. It's difficult, because we don't know exactly what sort of pain/aching you are experiencing, but I would be much more worried if you said you had pains in your chest. Even when I have tried a long run after a year of inactivity, I have always found it to be aching legs that stopped me and not being out of breath. It seems normal to me.

- At 29 you should definitely not be having any age related issues. You're basically in your prime as far as long-distance running goes. You might be surprised how many ultra runners there are in their 60s.

All the best with your training. I don't know where you're based, but I know there is a thriving running scene in Chiang Mai.

great post, thanks

i will aim to go 6am (had been going ~8am or ~6pm) but my time is flexible so i could go early, and get up an hour earlier to eat (i was eating +3 hours before)

now i'm in bangkok but my medium term plan is to move to chiang mai, partly because i imagine there are some good places for jogging there, although my friends say there aren't so many good public parks there (although they are thai friends with little knowledge/interest of anything "outside")

[joshstiles]

Cereals and breads are not healthy regardless of what "experts" tell you. Processed foods are never a healthy additive for any diet. Of course you can eat them....but do not believe that they are healthy for you. They do provide carbs for your body, but not the kind of carbs a healthy body needs.

[brit1984]

Cereals and breads are not healthy regardless of what "experts" tell you. Processed foods are never a healthy additive for any diet. Of course you can eat them....but do not believe that they are healthy for you. They do provide carbs for your body, but not the kind of carbs a healthy body needs.

that's interesting...

is white rice better than brown bread (from 7-11) and/or muesli? where i live that is the choice basically

[helvellyn]

Good thread this, some great advice..

I started cycling 2 years ago and running last Sept. Ran my 1st half marathon in Chiang Mai at Xmas (2h7min).

Building up gradually is the way to go. I think you are doing too many days a week for full recovery.

I have just started on a 20 week plan for my first 50k ultra in Oct, can't wait for it. I am running 3 times a week and biking or swimming twice. Only 1 long run on a Saturday, at the moment 45min but will gradually build up to 4hrs before the race. Finally easing off for the final 2 weeks.

For salts, I use Nuun tablets that I get in U.K. Seem to work well after a longer run.

Gels instead of carb drinks and some solids after an hour or so (home made energy bars).

This is interesting, another though on hydration..!! https://wattbike.com/uk/guide/getting_started/advanced_hydration_advice

Hope you work it out OP, let us know how you get on.

Off topic, but is it the Mae Hong Song one you're doing?

[cornishcarlos]

Good thread this, some great advice..

I started cycling 2 years ago and running last Sept. Ran my 1st half marathon in Chiang Mai at Xmas (2h7min).

Building up gradually is the way to go. I think you are doing too many days a week for full recovery.

I have just started on a 20 week plan for my first 50k ultra in Oct, can't wait for it. I am running 3 times a week and biking or swimming twice. Only 1 long run on a Saturday, at the moment 45min but will gradually build up to 4hrs before the race. Finally easing off for the final 2 weeks.

For salts, I use Nuun tablets that I get in U.K. Seem to work well after a longer run.

Gels instead of carb drinks and some solids after an hour or so (home made energy bars).

This is interesting, another though on hydration..!! https://wattbike.com/uk/guide/getting_started/advanced_hydration_advice

Hope you work it out OP, let us know how you get on.

Off topic, but is it the Mae Hong Song one you're doing?

Yes...

[BAMBOO13]

Take the time and go get checked up by someplace good, Bumrungrad or compatable, tell a doctor what is wrong, dont be cheap on your health and try to find free advice!

[helvellyn]

Good thread this, some great advice..

I started cycling 2 years ago and running last Sept. Ran my 1st half marathon in Chiang Mai at Xmas (2h7min).

Building up gradually is the way to go. I think you are doing too many days a week for full recovery.

I have just started on a 20 week plan for my first 50k ultra in Oct, can't wait for it. I am running 3 times a week and biking or swimming twice. Only 1 long run on a Saturday, at the moment 45min but will gradually build up to 4hrs before the race. Finally easing off for the final 2 weeks.

For salts, I use Nuun tablets that I get in U.K. Seem to work well after a longer run.

Gels instead of carb drinks and some solids after an hour or so (home made energy bars).

This is interesting, another though on hydration..!! https://wattbike.com/uk/guide/getting_started/advanced_hydration_advice

Hope you work it out OP, let us know how you get on.

Off topic, but is it the Mae Hong Song one you're doing?

Yes...

Ok, good luck. I'm registered for that one as well