3 million Thai kids living with caregivers

[Thai at Heart]

Root cause need to be taken care of !

The mean reason is is very simple, there are no factories, there is not enough work for the amount of young people living over there.

They mention Khon Kaen, good example, Khon Kaen has a very good university, however, people who graduate need to migrate internal to find job.

Until there was still a difference in salary between the provinces, there would still have been investors to invest in the North east, but right now, there is no reason to do so.

The government (when there will be one) have to grant tax benefit to companies who invest in employment there where it is most necessary , that could solve a big part of this problem.

Everything goes to bangkok. That is the problem.

[hgma]

wow......so what?

This is thailand and if they want to live that way let them.

slower development? so what?

we just saw an exodus of migrant cambodian workers with a 'slower development' badly needed to keep wealth in pace with demand.

then the more 'developed' children with bachelor and whathavewe getting a job, yes getting....a job at 7/11

Kong kouw!

[willem1946]

wow......so what?

This is thailand and if they want to live that way let them.

slower development? so what?

we just saw an exodus of migrant cambodian workers with a 'slower development' badly needed to keep wealth in pace with demand.

then the more 'developed' children with bachelor and whathavewe getting a job, yes getting....a job at 7/11

Kong kouw!

very well sayd

[harryfrompattaya]

..."the national ratio of 21 per cent of children who live with caregivers, such as their grandparents, has alarmed experts from overseas."

Those "experts from overseas" sometimes seem to have a small problem with understanding that they cannot project their values and opinions upon another culture.

These overseas experts are just looking for money so they can do fake surveys The experts belong in a Thai for making Thailand bad

My studies so Thailand are the smartest people look how much money Farangs give them for nothing

I am even happy to give millions of Baht just ask me and get yours

[Malthus101]

<deleted> has this got to do with Andrew Claypole, social policy chief for Unicef Thailand?

OK Andrew, here's the solution. Give them your money, then they won't have to go off to the cities to find work and can raise their children.

Anything short of that....<deleted>.

[peterb17]

In our tambon, we have one village that is 20k away in the hills, almost an hours journey on hill tracks. There's about a dozen kids from this village that have to live with grandparents, relatives nearer the school during term time. So there's another reason why they don't live with their parents. From what I've seen, kids learn much more from their peers than any parental guidance, One girl, for example, is a constant visitor to our immediate neighbour's daughter who is quite bright and computer literate. They spend much time together on the internet - something I'm sure would not be available if she had to live with her parents up in the hills (no internet access for a start). My own wife, before I met her had 2 boys to bring up with her husband disappeared, totally incompatible with her work as a nurse (shift patterns etc), in the city. The 2 boys were brought up by their grandmother, who did an excellent job. Both boys hold degrees now, with the youngest tackling an M.Sc. So some of these generalisations just don't hold up against the 'Western model' - it works in Thailand.

Good grief- someone actually saying something positive.

It's the usual thing- TV members hammering the Thai way of life- and of course it's truly fabulous back home. The UK has tens of thousands of kids in care- taken from their parents- their prospects are usually not good. Also there is a huge underclass (especially white working class kids) who have almost no education , no qualifications, no skills- whose only prospects are living on welfare or drug dealing.

It's all bliss- and Thailand is crap.

These kids do have a loving family around them- which is a lot more in the West

[GreasyFingers]

"It is the culture here, for some, to pass the kids off to the grandparents to bring up while the parent works to provide what little they can in the way of financial support." timewilltell

What solution do the UNICEF freeloaders provide for the reality of being poor. Would they rather have them starve or stay on the farm or in the village with no chance of improvement in the future.

I am sure they would not want that. Perhaps they want some recognition of the issues and action to start to reduce those problems. Highlighting a problem has to occur before something is done to reduce its effects.

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You do not need to be a paid professor to work out this has been going on for how long? What is their solution/

[Sirbergan]

In our tambon, we have one village that is 20k away in the hills, almost an hours journey on hill tracks. There's about a dozen kids from this village that have to live with grandparents, relatives nearer the school during term time. So there's another reason why they don't live with their parents. From what I've seen, kids learn much more from their peers than any parental guidance, One girl, for example, is a constant visitor to our immediate neighbour's daughter who is quite bright and computer literate. They spend much time together on the internet - something I'm sure would not be available if she had to live with her parents up in the hills (no internet access for a start). My own wife, before I met her had 2 boys to bring up with her husband disappeared, totally incompatible with her work as a nurse (shift patterns etc), in the city. The 2 boys were brought up by their grandmother, who did an excellent job. Both boys hold degrees now, with the youngest tackling an M.Sc. So some of these generalisations just don't hold up against the 'Western model' - it works in Thailand.

Good grief- someone actually saying something positive.

It's the usual thing- TV members hammering the Thai way of life- and of course it's truly fabulous back home. The UK has tens of thousands of kids in care- taken from their parents- their prospects are usually not good. Also there is a huge underclass (especially white working class kids) who have almost no education , no qualifications, no skills- whose only prospects are living on welfare or drug dealing.

It's all bliss- and Thailand is crap.

These kids do have a loving family around them- which is a lot more in the West

Quite a few valid points, Peter. But one of the main problems is that loving and caring parents has no other choice but to leave their children with relatives, and those relatives are often or some times unable or unwilling to do what's required, as it's "not their child". That being said, many relatives are more than responsible, and does what is and should be required of them.

Having stayed in Isaan, and in a small village at that, for 3 years, I can tell you that many of the children have way too much freedom and too few boundaries. But then again, that goes for children staying with their parents as well, so it might not necessarily be related to the OP. I've often considered opening a charity, an activity center for youths, as it seems they don't have enough offers, but I've been told it would be very difficult - borderlining impossible. I'm still considering how I can help them, though.

[Sirbergan]

..."the national ratio of 21 per cent of children who live with caregivers, such as their grandparents, has alarmed experts from overseas."

Those "experts from overseas" sometimes seem to have a small problem with understanding that they cannot project their values and opinions upon another culture.

These overseas experts are just looking for money so they can do fake surveys The experts belong in a Thai for making Thailand bad

My studies so Thailand are the smartest people look how much money Farangs give them for nothing

I am even happy to give millions of Baht just ask me and get yours

I'm sure "The experts belong in a Thai for making Thailand bad", whatever that means. I'd love a few million baht, though, please hand it over.

[cgphuket]

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Give the parents enough money so that they don't have to go work, or can hire a nanny, I am so they would be so pleased you would hear the cheers from your perch in your Ivory tower.

UNICEF does not understan Thailand.

I think you are so wrong! It is common practise in Thailand for a couple or single mother to dump their children on their parents and leave to another city to work. This does not make it right simply because it is done on large scale here.
Leavin a child behind to an elder prevents a child from learning anything except what was learned 50 years ago. It may well be the reason Thais are not creative or imaginative.
It does however leave the child with someone who is already lacking in developmental skills. Although I am not sure about the communicative skills being affected. I do think that emotional growth can be dererred. How can a baby understand the absence of a mother they bonded with at birth or a family they only see on weekends?

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[Bernard Flint]

part of the bar scene people dont even think about

Not just the bar scene, many mothers have to go away from the village to get half decent jobs.However many grand mummies are not old, thai girls have babies at 17/18 so their mums could only be 36.

Many go abroad after getting married to a non thai and leave baby(ies) at home with family too.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Bernard Flint

[thesetat2013]

Give the parents enough money so that they don't have to go work, or can hire a nanny, I am so they would be so pleased you would hear the cheers from your perch in your Ivory tower.

UNICEF does not understan Thailand.

I think you are so wrong! It is common practise in Thailand for a couple or single mother to dump their children on their parents and leave to another city to work. This does not make it right simply because it is done on large scale here.

Leavin a child behind to an elder prevents a child from learning anything except what was learned 50 years ago. It may well be the reason Thais are not creative or imaginative.

It does however leave the child with someone who is already lacking in developmental skills. Although I am not sure about the communicative skills being affected. I do think that emotional growth can be dererred. How can a baby understand the absence of a mother they bonded with at birth or a family they only see on weekends?

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When you get back from fantasy land come and reply with something more realistic. Or maybe you are just trying to show your limited amount of intelligence?

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[bhakta]

Timely topic. My wife and are are raising our grandson because his father (my son) has not taken any responsibility and the boy's mother left about two years ago and has not been seen since. At 65, I already raised six of my own, and never expected to be doing this again. The boy is wonderful and a real joy, but with only some small retirement income, it is quite a challenge.

[dao16]

MMMM....it seems to me that it would depend on the family. We still have one kid living in the countryside with grandma and grandpa. We are not far away, though, and we seem him regularly. He also comes and stays with us when he is off from school. He actually gets more exposure to society out in the countryside (we decided not to have him come into the city to study so he could have a few more years of fun countryside life, like I had and my wife had--those years don't come back).

We will take him into the city soon. They seem to adapt quickly. But he loves him grandparents and has a lot of friends out there. I would venture to say that a lot of this might come from impoverished families with no education and a whole boatload of kids (not just one) staying with them. Interesting article, though.

[Mudcrab]

One of the real problems with this story is the elderly Thai man in the photo, presumably great grandpa, as well as his spouse in the sea blue shirt. The gentleman is a tragically typical elder Thai among the everyday Thais. No teeth, undernourished, no education, and totally incapable and lacking any understanding of the concept of parenting, example or guidance. The Thai system for generations doesn't care about these people. The Thai establishment has ignored them and repressed them deep in to its pecking order, exclusion, and marginalizing them, The 3 million and the supposed grandparent or eldest daughter holding the child in the photo are merely extensions of the problem.

The Thai establishment doesn't educate these country people, doesn't provide adequate health care and of course no education. Inside that aluminum siding shack is a 52" flat panel TV and it's a certainty that a brand new Toyota truck is in view of the shack. Just because the baby and the grandmother look well fed, doesn't mean that they are healthy. The baby and the grandmother will look like the great grandparents in 30 years and 50 years respectively. It's a dark depressing photograph that captures the cycle of Thainess and exclusion beautifully. The Thai elite business class establishment should take note that this is Thailand and they are there.

Wow X-ray vision. You make a lot of statements about no education, lack of parenting skills, example and guidance.

You can tell all of this from a photo?

Perhaps the photo is really of Mum visiting the village during Songkran showing her grandparents their grandson they haven't seen for a while since she lives elsewhere and runs a shop in another village and makes good money.

Really you Reds should put your X-ray vision and psychic talents to much better use - suggest to see through the corruption that has been endemic in the PTP and no doubt is still festering in some red strongholds which hopefully the good general will track down and put down. Maybe your superpowers could help him this task and lead to a much better society.

[Mudcrab]

"It is the culture here, for some, to pass the kids off to the grandparents to bring up while the parent works to provide what little they can in the way of financial support." timewilltell

What solution do the UNICEF freeloaders provide for the reality of being poor. Would they rather have them starve or stay on the farm or in the village with no chance of improvement in the future.

I am sure they would not want that. Perhaps they want some recognition of the issues and action to start to reduce those problems. Highlighting a problem has to occur before something is done to reduce its effects.

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You do not need to be a paid professor to work out this has been going on for how long? What is their solution/

You only require a solution when there is a problem. Is there a problem? All depends on perspective.

[biggles45]

Surely this is not uncommon in poorer countries? At any given time about 10 million Filipinos are working overseas, out of a population of 100 million or so. Many of these are single parents, some with several children who they leave with family members. I would imagine that a similar study would find the thai numbers were low in comparison

[brd]

so sad when raising a pet and a child first two years are similar but with appropriate parenthood kids normally grow up with the right education to learn right and wrong with loving care not to remain pets all their life looking only for play, play, play.

Grand parents often kick out their daughters to go to make a living on their own and once becoming mothers send their kids back to their parents whom care for the kids as they do for buffaloes....kids are their main entertainment not bothering leaving them free to do not teaching right and or wrong neither telling NO in return benefiting from a monthly allowance from their daughters for the care.

The results are obvious the boys are highly ego centered knowing everything better and girls are adults as soon as they discover their female gifts can work for their survival.

Part of what is they call it Thai culture should be not only reviewed clearly with Thai Government support but totally changed as we are in 2557 not 300 years ago.

I am ashamed to have seen what I have seen not humans rather close to animals behavior with superior proud arrogant attitude being constantly reminded they are Thai............

We love Thailand as we wish it to become not that much as what it is, being a Third World country outside Bangkok itself getting fast smarter and smarter.

Edited June 24, 2014 by brd

[timewilltell]

"It is the culture here, for some, to pass the kids off to the grandparents to bring up while the parent works to provide what little they can in the way of financial support." timewilltell

What solution do the UNICEF freeloaders provide for the reality of being poor. Would they rather have them starve or stay on the farm or in the village with no chance of improvement in the future.

I am sure they would not want that. Perhaps they want some recognition of the issues and action to start to reduce those problems. Highlighting a problem has to occur before something is done to reduce its effects.

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You do not need to be a paid professor to work out this has been going on for how long? What is their solution/

You only require a solution when there is a problem. Is there a problem? All depends on perspective.

In reply to GreasyFingers - UNICEF are not in a position to provide a solution. They might provide aid but it is not their remit to provide solutions for countries. They are highlighting a problem (as they see it, me too), in the hope that those who ARE in a position to find a solution might start along that particular road.

Mud crab is right though it does depend on perspective to a degree. My perspective is that children should ALL be given the opportunity to better themselves if they are so inclined and that should not mean the one in a million spark like Richard Branson who will achieve whatever the circumstances but the average child should also have opportunity. Therein lies a problem if a society represses its children and calls it culture unless you subscribe to the idea that being born in a particular country condemns a child to the 'culture' of the place, and tough titty to them.

You can then extend that idea to ignore the plight of children who are mutilated and sold off for sex or raped because they come from the wrong caste. But I think it is wrong to ignore because the kids are innocent and as humans we should have compassion for them which includes trying to change where it is possible - through education being the best way.

But as you say it all comes down to perspective.

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[timewilltell]

Surely this is not uncommon in poorer countries? At any given time about 10 million Filipinos are working overseas, out of a population of 100 million or so. Many of these are single parents, some with several children who they leave with family members. I would imagine that a similar study would find the thai numbers were low in comparison

I don't think UNICEF said it is a problem solely in Thailand - rather just that it was an issue here. I am sure Thailand is not the only country they are active. Having said that Thailand will be as interested in the plight of Fillipinos as they are in allowing foreigners to buy a home here - in other words not at all. So one might forgive UNICEF for sticking to the point.

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[benalibina]

"It is the culture here, for some, to pass the kids off to the grandparents to bring up while the parent works to provide what little they can in the way of financial support." timewilltell

What solution do the UNICEF freeloaders provide for the reality of being poor. Would they rather have them starve or stay on the farm or in the village with no chance of improvement in the future.

I am sure they would not want that. Perhaps they want some recognition of the issues and action to start to reduce those problems. Highlighting a problem has to occur before something is done to reduce its effects.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

You do not need to be a paid professor to work out this has been going on for how long? What is their solution/

You only require a solution when there is a problem. Is there a problem? All depends on perspective.

Based on the OP i have lost my kids to caregivers. With totally no shame. As it is normal and acceptable in Thailand. However the emotional consequences, now or later, for the children are overlooked because its not visible. In cases where parents are not fit or unwilling to raise kids its good that others are willing to take responsability. Personally i cannot phantom that people just make children and dump them with others. Thai culture i guess. Children are a means to an aim in some/many cases. Sad sad. Yes it is a problem...regardless of perspective.

[MobileContent]

In our village, many old people take care for their grand children because the mothers and fathers are working in Bangkok.

For me this would not be an option as I don't want my MIL or FIL to take care of my children but in Thailand it is very common.

[atyclb]

..."the national ratio of 21 per cent of children who live with caregivers, such as their grandparents, has alarmed experts from overseas."

Those "experts from overseas" sometimes seem to have a small problem with understanding that they cannot project their values and opinions upon another culture.

http://www2.ipsr.mahidol.ac.th/ipsr/index.php/faculty-staff/81-sub-faculty-staff/104-aree-jampaklay One of your foreign experts.

With time it gets more and more difficult for feudal superstitions and traditions to trump science, reality and just common sense.

[tartempion]

UNICEF does not understand Thailand.

Really???

We adopted the 11 months young girl daughter of my gf's brother (wife left him when baby was 4 months young) and the brother is a brainless idiot. Luckily he disappeared working in some factory somewhere.

She is 3y 4 months now and is a brilliant little girl, speaks fluent Thai and English etc.

She spent months 4 to 11 with the grand parents, sigh...Do you think she had a bright future living there???

If the figure of 3 million is right Thailand will have 3 million lost children on top of the other millions they have already produced.

Edited June 25, 2014 by tartempion

[bowerboy]

A key point that is missed here is that this is NOT just restricted to Issan and is not all about poor farm families.

In our office there are at least 3 girls who are happily married whose (Thai) husbands are Engineers and whose children are all being raised upcountry by their grandparents. They could easily afford to have a nanny here taking care of the Children (a Myanmar Nanny is not expensive).

Exactly why they do this I do not know...many trust the grandparents more than a Nanny is one reason.

Edited June 25, 2014 by bowerboy

[belg]

is this because of a lot of thai men like to butterfly around, secuide young girls, get them pregnant and leave them for another one and never care or look after them ?

[spidermike007]

The practice of having a child, without a second thought in the world, while knowing you cannot support the child, and that the father is long gone, is amazing. You know you are going to have to go out and seek work, to support yourself and your child, and you know you cannot do it locally. And you have the child anyway? Many Thais are so hypnotized with children, there is little thought devoted to the whole process. The mother is gone for months, and sometimes years at a time, seeing the child once or twice a year for a week or two. Is this parenthood? Is it fair to either the child, or the grandparents, who do not seem to be willing, or able to say no? This appears to be one of the most bizarre aspects of contemporary Thai culture. And it seems to be especially prevalent in the NE.

[zaZa9]

"It is the culture here, for some, to pass the kids off to the grandparents to bring up while the parent works to provide what little they can in the way of financial support." timewilltell

What solution do the UNICEF freeloaders provide for the reality of being poor. Would they rather have them starve or stay on the farm or in the village with no chance of improvement in the future.

The same situation , multiplied , exists in China where hundreds of millions of grand parents raise children while their parents migrate to the cities to work.

UNESCO lauds Chinese progress by announcing , " Chinese rapid progress has seen 200 million people lifted from poverty in the last 15 years !"

Decentralisation is a part solution , but unfortunately not every villiage will ever have a factory or self sufficiency plus cash.