What I'd like to see develop in Chiang Rai

[villagefarang]

no Just a simple question.

Edited July 6, 2014 by villagefarang

[DonaldBattles]

Khun Nat has confirmed that the Doi Hang Fishing Park will open on Aug. 1. Some friendly activity away from home. Fishing is good for the soul.

[harrry]

Khun Nat has confirmed that the Doi Hang Fishing Park will open on Aug. 1. Some friendly activity away from home. Fishing is good for the soul.

Ask the fish if they think that

Good news for some. Many people like fishing.

[villagefarang]

Here is a nice little fishing park near Sop Pao. It doesn’t seem to get much use but then again it might be seasonal.

[boomerangutang]

There's a walking path, not far from C.Rai, which is exceptional for its natural majesty. Very few have walked it, because it's considered 'unknown' 'dangerous' 'unconventional.'

It's located several Km's west of the super Hwy, about 12 Km south of the border town of Mae Sai.

Whereas there are many trails which are interesting, as they wind through natural habitat, this one (does it have a name?) winds near towering limestone cliffs. Some soar straight up for an estimated 300 meters! It's a bit like 'El Capitan' of Yosemite Park in California. Chiang Rai has a tradition for naming things in its town - after famous things in bigger tourist cities. Examples: Pattaya Noi (beach), Pat Pong noi (tiny red light area), Walking Street (Saturday evening vendors). Perhaps we can give this trail a name like 'Yosehmitee Noi' ? I spelled it like that to lessen the chance it would be mispronounced by Thais.

I've only been up and down the trail once, and it's not so easy finding the trail head, but is possible if diligent. If anyone would like to go with me to hike it, let me know. It has a creek running down most of its length. The reason it's considered 'dangerous' is it's rumored to be an access, from Burma, for drug runners. The time I went, I saw a few men with Chinese style army caps (with little red star), and a lone fellow with a smooth bore rifle (a hunter?). Both, i just said hi and kept on walking, and they said same to me. There were also two young men who passed me going uphill, and they were friendly.

[villagefarang]

On the rare occasion when we drive to Mae Sai I am always intrigued by the beautiful mountains along the way. Seldom do we have time to take a side road up into those mountain with Mae Sai being 115 km from home. Still what I have seen was very beautiful and you make it sound very interesting indeed.

I am much more familiar with the area East of Chiang Rai. Though perhaps not as dramatic, I find nature to be more accessible in this area. There is the Ing River, Tat Khwan Waterfall, numerous reservoirs and streams, with unlimited farmer trails which make mountain biking a joy and opens up huge areas to be explored. The only attempt I make at naming trails is to give my wife an idea of which direction I am planning to ride that day. That is normally just village names or landmarks used as reference points. I have come across men with homemade rifles but never any soldiers in our area. Those days are long past where we live but still remembered.

[kanook]

Yes in fact I do often see single fishermen/women fishing in the Mae Kok with rod and reel...but i have never seen a single one of them actually catch anything.

I do remember taking a boat from Tha Ton to CR several years ago and there were some thai guys who had strung nets across the entire river which of course will quickly deplete all the breeding stock....it's a shame that the govt can't stock the mae kok and somehow prevent the netting of fish but i realize that isn't likely to happen in my lifetime

It is pretty obvious to me that there is limited wildlife around CR area as I can't recall ever seeing a single dead wild animal along the roadside hit by a car. Maybe it does happen but if so the carcas must be quickly gone. In many states in US it is very common to see all kinds of dead animals along the roads hit by cars....rabbits,deer, squirrels, possums, raccoons, snakes, dogs, cats.... you name it....and often the buzzards are cleaning it all up early every morning

Usually edible roadkill isn't around long enough for the scavengers. It will be on a local dinner table instead.

[duanebigsby]

I don't really see what more Chiang Rai needs. What is suggested so far? A decent library...The city has a few, do you mean English books? Cycling and walking trails...tons, or make your own up. Dinosaurs? Really? Burger King? Are you serious?

[DonaldBattles]

Remember the Minor Group closed the Burger King here because the cheap charlies would not support it.

With Khun Nat's new Doi Hang Fishing Park the best burgers in Thailand will be served (same as before).

[boomerangutang]

I don't really see what more Chiang Rai needs. What is suggested so far? A decent library...The city has a few, do you mean English books? Cycling and walking trails...tons, or make your own up. Dinosaurs? Really? Burger King? Are you serious?

Library mostly for locals. The current library is inadequate. You can say 'what's the need for books, when everything is on the internet?' Your choice.

Is there a trail which is off-limits to motorbikes?

The word 'Dinosaurs' was used to name a paragraph which lamented that there are no fossils on display in the Chiang Rai region. ...and no displays of rocks or stone tools that I know of. Fossils can also indicate all sorts of ancient plants and animals. Does Chiang Rai province have any history that goes back that far? If that doesn't interest any pensioned farang ThaiVisaites, mai pen rai, but the youngsters in the region should have access to such things - if they exist. It's healthy for kids to develop an awareness and appreciation for nature - current and preceding. There's more to life than sitting in a hard seat and staring at a blackboard for half your waking hours between the ages of 6 and 24.

Someone else mentioned Burger King, probably trying to be funny. I'm rather serious, in my concern for finding ways in which Chiang Rai might improve quality of life for its residents and resident farang and visitors. If you think all's fine and nothing can be improved, then so be it. As John Lennon once said, 'Living is easy with eyes closed.'

[villagefarang]

Personally I would rather focus on the things I enjoy and find ways around the other stuff. Even with eyes wide open, one can choose to walk along a beautiful path enjoying the birds and flowers or stand in a garbage dump looking at trash. It really is up to the individual to choose and one can’t claim to be superior because of one’s choice, regardless what John Lennon said.

Edited July 13, 2014 by villagefarang

[villagefarang]

Remember the Minor Group closed the Burger King here because the cheap charlies would not support it.

With Khun Nat's new Doi Hang Fishing Park the best burgers in Thailand will be served (same as before).

So the cheap charlies won’t support Burger King but they will support your burgers?

In a big city like Bangkok I can see how one might find a market for fishing parks among those trying to escape the concrete jungle but we are surrounded by a multitude of natural fishing locations like rivers, streams, ponds and reservoirs so I somehow can’t really see the appeal to the local angler.

I see you have taken on a new marketing strategy of late.

[duanebigsby]

All I was suggesting was that there aren't enough farang here for a library to cater to us.

Orn:s bookshop and a few farang bars with books to borrow is probably enough.

You suggest a dinosaur museum, but have no clue if the area has ever had fossils.

There is a Hill Tribe museum, Chiang Saen has a Lanna museum, and the opium museum near it.

The school kids all take fieldtrips to these museums.

And trails are best forged on one's own.

Can there be improvements? Of course! But this is a small city with a charm all its' own. Not sure what you want.

[pomchop]

Blame the "cheap charlies" for not supporting a burger king in CR??

How about we consider:

1. Selling bread, cheese, beef, and potatoes to Thais who prefer pork/chicken/rice/noodles/vegetables isn't exactly a great business model....and expecting to charge them more for said bread/beef than it cost to sit down and have a

nice full meal of thai food isn't exactly a recipe for success.

2. So if you charge essentialy the same prices in a CR burger king as a USA burger king while you pay staff less for one day's work than a USA burger king employee makes in one hour and your rent is likely also much less than USA

wouldn't that make the CR burger king owners the true "cheap charlies"? Wanna charge western prices but pay CR wages? Sure.

3. If you open a restaurant in CR expecting to make money by selling farang type products at farang type prices

thereby eliminating almost all of the local population as a customer then good luck with that. You better have some

deep pockets and take a good look at your business rather than accusing those who choose to spend their money

elsewhere of not meeting your high expectations.

4. Personally I am always semi amazed at the success of Starbucks in Thailand. For whatever reason they seem to be able to charge western prices while paying Thai wages and yet the Thais often flock to them. I suspect that it may

be more about the ambience of a Starbucks than the coffee but ambience is not a term normally associated with Burger King in any positive manner.

I rarely if ever eat in a Burger King or McD's in USA and have pretty much zero desire to eat in one in CR. I prefer to sit in a thai restaurant and eat thai food.. If that makes me a "cheap charlie" then so be it.

However it seems pretty silly to blame those who decide for whatever reason that they do not want to spend their

money there for the downfall of the business.

Perhaps the real problem is the restaurant owner has an overblown sense of his business acumen and "right" to make

money but doesn't provide the product or value or ambience that the customers want.

[canuckamuck]

I don't really have any problems with Chiang Rai outside of the multiple traffic lights on the highway through the city. It can be a very long drive north to south. I see they have a secondary thru-road in the works, and hopefully the traffic will migrate over.

Outside of that, there are still some things I need to go to Chiang Mai for, but selection is improving all the time.

Chiang Mai is a disaster now, and I hope CR can hold off expanding so quickly.

Edited July 13, 2014 by canuckamuck

[DonaldBattles]

The Thai and Chinese population in Chiang Rai is expanding rapidly. Unless the officials do something to control development, infrastructure we can look forward to the place being like Chiang Mai is.

The traffic now is really getting bad. Wishing the army would get the police off their ass and do some traffic and parking control.

What about a new regulation that states that road pot holes have to be filled with cement. The cold patch people know that their business will gone forever as these patches last about 2 months and then they are beat out.

The nature trails that exist now will be destroyed by the influx of more and more people. I think more natural benefits will not happen unless the government decides to take things under control. If you look at the number of large houses built on National Forest property it is big time. I don't see the army pulling these down in the near future. People believe that they can continue to build on government property without a chanote and no one will do anything about it. Hundreds of illegal houses have been built on government property. I know several people who have done this.

[boomerangutang]

Personally I would rather focus on the things I enjoy and find ways around the other stuff. Even with eyes wide open, one can choose to walk along a beautiful path enjoying the birds and flowers or stand in a garbage dump looking at trash. It really is up to the individual to choose and one cant claim to be superior because of ones choice, regardless what John Lennon said.

Imagine you have a house. There is a nice paint job and it looks good when seen from 100 meters. However, some of the metal structure is rusting and there are termites in some places. You could keep on dwelling on the photo of when it looks its best, or you could attempt to fix some of the drawbacks. You could do both concurrently. It's not as if you can either praise or suggest improvements, one of the other (black or white).

I am able to appreciate things about Chiang Rai while concurrently putting forth suggestions for improvements. If someone thinks all is fine and there's no room for improvements for C.Rai, then we don't agree.

Similarly, if I suggest one or two exciting prospects for bicycle or jogging/hiking paths along the river, I'm not saying there are no other places in the region to hike or jog or bike. Again, it's not a black & white scenario.

If I mention that some majestic SE Asian Rosewood trees were taken out on public land, am I being negative for saying that? There were about 5 trees, each approx 20 inches in diameter, chest height. They grew over the river at the Buddha Cave, within 150 meters of the new white Buddha icon on the small rock island across from Pattaya Noi. One day they're there, the next day gone. My guess is the local pu yai ban (who I've spoken with about other things) either took them out, or got payment from someone who did. Without a doubt, there was money exchanged because they're quite valuable. Public property + large trees taken out = something very fishy. Sorry to take off the rose-colored glasses to mention this, but trees can't talk for themselves, so they need people advocates to speak for them. I'll put the rose glasses back on and only see and mention good things, and not see anything else. Is that better?

[boomerangutang]

I don't really have any problems with Chiang Rai outside of the multiple traffic lights on the highway through the city. It can be a very long drive north to south. I see they have a secondary thru-road in the works, and hopefully the traffic will migrate over.

Outside of that, there are still some things I need to go to Chiang Mai for, but selection is improving all the time.

Chiang Mai is a disaster now, and I hope CR can hold off expanding so quickly.

Agree, lots of room for improvements. There could be an elevated hwy built which goes over C.Rai's busiest intersection, at the King Mengrei statue - and a large circular roundabout under it.

The truck route to the east of town will help (about half of it is already built). It too will have traffic lights, but it's still an improvement from going through the middle of the city. There are plans to build another diversion or truck route going around the west side of the city. I've seen the maps. Part of it goes in a beeline from the new white prison to Rajabat U. If the one on the east works, why build a redundant one on the west? Plus, the Eastern route already has a bridge and won't need a long elevated (added expense) roadway to traverse flood plains, as the west route will need.

Downtown: there are places where there are two and even three one-way streets, parallel, all going the same direction. There are other places where a two two-lane wide roads go side by side - all in one direction, while other roads have narrow, 3.5 meter wide sections which are two-way. What are the planners smoking - Belladonna?

[harrry]

Strange how KFC have many places, McDonalds has a store and Burger King are so efficient they had to close because of Cheap Charlies. Did you hear of competition?

[pomchop]

KFC is obviously a much more popular choice for Thais all across Thailand than McDonalds.....I always look at the customers in McDs at Central when I walk by and it appears to always have way more farangs than Thais there.

I asked a class of CR high kids how many of them had ever eaten at McDonalds....NOT A SINGLE ONE. Maybe because they don't like burgers but probably because they are poor and they can get a lot better meal for a lot less of their baht at numerous other restaurants.

Even the Thais I see at McD appear to often just share an order of French fries but that's it.

Hopefully more Thais will resist the lure of the supersized western chains and not end up with rear ends the size of Texas like so many western kids who practically live at McDs sucking down burgers/fries/milkshakes etc.

[DonaldBattles]

When I go to McDonalds I see a lot of Thais there. Thais eat more junk food than you can image. 85% of Thai foods are soup based and pretty junky with a lot of pork fat in many of them.

There are more than 200 McDonalds in Thailand so Thais eat a lot of burgers. Chiang Rai is not so representative of the rest of Thailand. People get fat from the amount they eat not necessarily what they eat. Thailand already has enough short fat people to raise the issue of health.

[harrry]

When I go to McDonalds I see a lot of Thais there. Thais eat more junk food than you can image. 85% of Thai foods are soup based and pretty junky with a lot of pork fat in many of them.

There are more than 200 McDonalds in Thailand so Thais eat a lot of burgers. Chiang Rai is not so representative of the rest of Thailand. People get fat from the amount they eat not necessarily what they eat. Thailand already has enough short fat people to raise the issue of health.

So do you want a HJs here or not. Or is it only Cheap Charlies who woul be their customers.?

[duanebigsby]

When I go to McDonalds I see a lot of Thais there. Thais eat more junk food than you can image. 85% of Thai foods are soup based and pretty junky with a lot of pork fat in many of them.

There are more than 200 McDonalds in Thailand so Thais eat a lot of burgers. Chiang Rai is not so representative of the rest of Thailand. People get fat from the amount they eat not necessarily what they eat. Thailand already has enough short fat people to raise the issue of health.

ok, 65 million Thais and 200 Mikky D's.

Canada ...1,400 Mcdonalds, with half the population. 35 millions.

Thais do not eat a lot of burgers.

And an elevated super hiway above the King's Monument? really? I don't know what you want Chiang Rai to be? I'ld be happy if there was better recycling and litter management but all your suggestions sound like you want to turn it into California.

[rijb]

Really?

[boomerangutang]

Since this thread has devolved to talk of who goes to McD's, I'll float along....

I see a lot of youngsters at Central's McD. If in doubt, go look between 4 and 6 pm, particularly outside. Fries are the most popular dish.

btw, if you want a decent view while eating at Central, go 2nd floor to East end of their food mart. I can't say anything good about the cuisine there (I haven't tried it), but it's a nice sitting spot with large windows.

In case anyone asks me if any restaurant in town knows how to fry an egg, I suggest Chian guest house. I'm sure you were aching to know.

[villagefarang]

Personally I would rather focus on the things I enjoy and find ways around the other stuff. Even with eyes wide open, one can choose to walk along a beautiful path enjoying the birds and flowers or stand in a garbage dump looking at trash. It really is up to the individual to choose and one cant claim to be superior because of ones choice, regardless what John Lennon said.

Imagine you have a house. There is a nice paint job and it looks good when seen from 100 meters. However, some of the metal structure is rusting and there are termites in some places. You could keep on dwelling on the photo of when it looks its best, or you could attempt to fix some of the drawbacks. You could do both concurrently. It's not as if you can either praise or suggest improvements, one of the other (black or white).

I am able to appreciate things about Chiang Rai while concurrently putting forth suggestions for improvements. If someone thinks all is fine and there's no room for improvements for C.Rai, then we don't agree.

Similarly, if I suggest one or two exciting prospects for bicycle or jogging/hiking paths along the river, I'm not saying there are no other places in the region to hike or jog or bike. Again, it's not a black & white scenario.

If I mention that some majestic SE Asian Rosewood trees were taken out on public land, am I being negative for saying that? There were about 5 trees, each approx 20 inches in diameter, chest height. They grew over the river at the Buddha Cave, within 150 meters of the new white Buddha icon on the small rock island across from Pattaya Noi. One day they're there, the next day gone. My guess is the local pu yai ban (who I've spoken with about other things) either took them out, or got payment from someone who did. Without a doubt, there was money exchanged because they're quite valuable. Public property + large trees taken out = something very fishy. Sorry to take off the rose-colored glasses to mention this, but trees can't talk for themselves, so they need people advocates to speak for them. I'll put the rose glasses back on and only see and mention good things, and not see anything else. Is that better?

I like this topic because it has put forth the views of people all along the spectrum, from those with an evangelical fervor who wish to enforce change, to those who are happy to watch things evolve without interference.

By the way, if my house needs some work I will hire someone to do it but I won’t force my neighbors to do the same. They are free to live in any kind of house or state of disrepair they wish. It is their house, not mine, after all.

Personally I feel that one reason I have had such a long and wonderful life here in Thailand, is that I never had that urge to tell my hosts they were doing things wrong and that I knew the true path to their salvation. If someone prefers a more confrontational path through life that is entirely up to them.

[boomerangutang]

.....who wish to enforce change, ....

....I wont force my neighbors to do the same.

There's a difference between 'suggesting' and 'enforcing.' Look it up.

[villagefarang]

.....who wish to enforce change, ....

....I wont force my neighbors to do the same.

There's a difference between 'suggesting' and 'enforcing.' Look it up.

No need to look it up, besides you know what I am talking about. We went off on a McDonald tangent for a while, are we now going to go down a semantic path for a bit?

[boomerangutang]

ok, then I'll try to clear it up. Perhaps English is not some readers' first language.

suggesting = floating ideas that could or could not be acted upon.

enforce = using superior force to compel others to adhere.

I didn't look those words up (definitions 'off the top of my head') so anyone is welcome to articulate further.

[duanebigsby]

ok, then I'll try to clear it up. Perhaps English is not some readers' first language.

suggesting = floating ideas that could or could not be acted upon.

enforce = using superior force to compel others to adhere.

I didn't look those words up (definitions 'off the top of my head') so anyone is welcome to articulate further.

I think you have subtly altered your semantics from suggest to enforce.

You suggested what you thought Chiang Rai needed. Fair enough. Villagefarang and myself disagreed and then

you strongly worded that your suggestions were right, needed, and strongly pushed those ideas.

To me that is getting pretty close to enforcing or demanding.