Passports of Charupong and Jakrapob revoked

[oldsailor35]

Who else in the world are going to take any notice whatsoever of the draconian Thai Lese Majestie rule. I think , nobody living in the 21st centuary.

[smutcakes]

I wonder if they are going to revoke the passports of other persons currently wanted in Thailand, eg the Red Bull man? Or just a select few.

[Fat Haggis]

Jamie "Rose" is a terrorist / criminal ?

[mikemac]

Yes ! found guilty by a military appointed court. The military wanted this man off the scene. So how can anyone even begin to think that the conviction was a just finding by a just court. No ..........corruption at its stinking worst.

Fighting fire with fire ! ( Poetic justice, I call it. )

Funny, but when Thaksin and co' were seemingly getting away with murder, so to speak, robbing the country blind and breaking all the rules, his cheer squad said nothing about it.

But when his greed brought him undone and the Military stepped in and pulled the rug out from under him, those same supporters cried foul.

If you can't handle the heat......................................................

[city]

now they can ask for political refugee status anywhere in the world.

with revoking their passports the junta lowered their own chances of extradition of a stateless person

the point is if the world would want corrupt people unless they also are corrupt. these ones most likely do not have the financial status as Mr. T and I doubt Mr. T would carry them for long

Your making assumptions these people are guilty, being wanted and being guilty are not the same. Countries will be lining up to take them as stateless people. Lets hope its never the current government looking for refuge...options will be very limited

A person with a revoked passport on criminal grounds is NOT a stateless person, and is common to revoke a passport to trap them in whatever country they are in at the time so proceedings can be put together to have them arrested and extradited.

A stateless person is someone who has no citizenship.

Countries lining up my arse.

Even if they can get permanent refuge somewhere, they will soon pine for Thailand just like their boss who is always whinging about wanting to come home. Also, the only countries that offer refuge to criminals are not exactly the sort of places one would like to be living in. IE... a desert.

By the way.... the next time the UK wants a rapist or a criminal on the run extradited from Thailand back to the UK I can guess what the answer will be.

But that aside, a Thai in the UK sticks out like a sore thumb, that girl has already been getting grief from Thais living over there. One actually went to her house and verbally attacked her...... silly girl.... silly silly girl.

She will be forever looking over her shoulder.

I agree very very silly girl...you were talking about the one who did the verbal attacking. As we have to abide by the laws of the countries we holiday or reside in so do the Thais when they enter a country of free speech. Its a democracy you know...forgot Thais are not ready for that

[smileydude]

I'm rather surprised at their show of loyalty since everyone else basically toed the line.

Fear of prosecution for other infringments of the law?

Paid well?

Strongly ideological?

Fiercely loyal?

Prefer living in Dubai, Cambodia or HK?

Only they know the answer to that. I'm curious to see when or if they will ever be able to return.

[tabs]

Related to this overreaching of the Junta beyond Thailand's borders, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office just put out this statement, through the British Embassy in Bangkok:

"The UK is committed to freedom of speech and defends the right of individuals to express their views without the threat of intimidation or harassment. We have discussed with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok and the Thai Embassy in London. We have made clear that we will not tolerate attempts to enforce Thai military decrees in the UK that are aimed at preventing freedom of expression."

Presumably that "freedom of speech" doesn't extend to:

OP:

illegal possession of war weapons

Hmmm - possession of war weapons when and where? Jakrapob was last here in 2009? Why wasn't he charged back then?

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

[metisdead]

Posts with veiled insinuations of involvement by the Royal family have been removed as well posts criticizing Martial Law:

NCPO: All suspects in lese majeste cases, national security cases, violators of NCPO orders will face court martial

Due to the fluid situation in Thailand and the pressure being placed on the media, Thaivisa will temporarily impose strict limitations on any comments that can be construed as being negative about the imposition of Martial Law or the Coup. Posters will also not be permitted to make references to the royal family.

It is the hope of Thaivisa that this will be a temporary situation. Thaivisa will continue to monitor the situation and it is our wish that in a short while we will be able to less strict in the policy concerning posting. Posts contravening the policy will be removed without notice.

Please exercise extreme care in your posts. The same rules applies to Facebook, Twitter and other social media. Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Thaivisa Forum guidelines/rules: http://www.thaivisa....tion=boardrules

Thaivisa Forum Admin

Other off topic posts and replies have been removed as well.

[Thanet]

Presumably that "freedom of speech" doesn't extend to:

OP:

illegal possession of war weapons

Hmmm - possession of war weapons when and where? Jakrapob was last here in 2009? Why wasn't he charged back then?

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Thanet

[ChokDeeMak]

FYI freedom of speech was originally for ment for Politics not for any ignorant Tom, Dick and Harry to say whtever they want at any given time. Thailand does not have that luxury so.... people have to bite their tongues. Easy. I have to bite my silver tongue a lot mainly in everyday encounters with people who dont realize Thai and Issan languages are not that hard to speak or understand. Reading and Writing is another story.

[rubl]

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Totally agree, where is the evidence linking Jakrapob. Just because he's a fugitive from Thai law since 2009 doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Mind you, in lots of countries we seem to have to believe the police at first as finer details are saved for the court case. Once a chap has been present to hear the charges his legal representative can even demand to get information on those finer details. Now if only k. Jakrapob could come back for a moment

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed.

[rubl]

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

BTW from the well known and well respected Jonathan Head, on BBC on the 21th of April 2009:

"Jakrapob Penkair managed to escape overseas after the army broke up the mass protests in Bangkok a week ago.

Speaking to the BBC from in hiding, he said the movement would use different tactics to confront the government, including possible armed attacks."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8009529.stm

[Thanet]

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Totally agree, where is the evidence linking Jakrapob. Just because he's a fugitive from Thai law since 2009 doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Mind you, in lots of countries we seem to have to believe the police at first as finer details are saved for the court case. Once a chap has been present to hear the charges his legal representative can even demand to get information on those finer details. Now if only k. Jakrapob could come back for a moment

Agreed we believe the police, coming from countries that have a judicial system that is not directly under the control of the government.

Here it's different under martial law, and it's unreasonable to expect anybody to voluntarily come back to a fair hearing. The judicial system now reports directly to the junta, and in doing so has lost the independence necessary to make an impartial judgement. There is also the probability that the police, also reporting to the junta, would likely put forward circumstantial evidence, which would nonetheless result in a conviction, so as to keep their jobs.

Faced with such loaded odds, you wouldn't go back either, I suspect. In a backdrop of no transparency whatsoever, whom can we believe?

Some irrefutable real evidence would at least show us that they are sincere, and that this is not just a political ruse to shut up the opposition.

[rubl]

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Totally agree, where is the evidence linking Jakrapob. Just because he's a fugitive from Thai law since 2009 doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Mind you, in lots of countries we seem to have to believe the police at first as finer details are saved for the court case. Once a chap has been present to hear the charges his legal representative can even demand to get information on those finer details. Now if only k. Jakrapob could come back for a moment

Agreed we believe the police, coming from countries that have a judicial system that is not directly under the control of the government.

Here it's different under martial law, and it's unreasonable to expect anybody to voluntarily come back to a fair hearing. The judicial system now reports directly to the junta, and in doing so has lost the independence necessary to make an impartial judgement. There is also the probability that the police, also reporting to the junta, would likely put forward circumstantial evidence, which would nonetheless result in a conviction, so as to keep their jobs.

Faced with such loaded odds, you wouldn't go back either, I suspect. In a backdrop of no transparency whatsoever, whom can we believe?

Some irrefutable real evidence would at least show us that they are sincere, and that this is not just a political ruse to shut up the opposition.

'judicial system not directly under the control of the government' seems to fluently move into 'here's it's different under martial law'. You mean you recognise the 'current' government as such?

Anyway where did it say the judicial system reports directly to the junta or even the NCPO?

You still ask for irrefutable evidence, did you also ask that when previous governments had the judiciary accuse k. Jatupob? When Jakrapob was dropped by PM Somchai? What about Jonathan Head quoting Jakrapob in 2009 with

"Speaking to the BBC from in hiding, he said the movement would use different tactics to confront the government, including possible armed attacks"

Just empty talk as to be expected from a peaceful UDD founder?

[northernjohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Revoking the passports of people who are outside the country, no matter who they are and what they are charged with, is a fundamental abuse of human rights.

Are you saying that Thailand should support criminals entering other countries instead of going to jail where they belong?

If a passport is revoked, who would know its revoked, apart from the issuing country?

I don't know why these people are apposing the junta. Come back, spend 10 days in government detention and then be set free?

The junta are trying to bring the people together by removing the friction that existed before with colour politics. Its just a temporary arrangement. Later politics will come back, political parties, elections and a voted in government.

This time when the politicians come back it is going to be a tougher play ground to play in.

There will be more honest checks on them. No longer will criminals be allowed to call into Cabinet meetings to give political decisions benefitting themselves.

It will be a lot tougher to get into the treasury like it was your own personal checking account. I seriously doubt that they will be able to lie and admit it and say it is OK because it makes people feel good.

The big thing will be if the changes are solid enough to last.

[Gus5]

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Totally agree, where is the evidence linking Jakrapob. Just because he's a fugitive from Thai law since 2009 doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Mind you, in lots of countries we seem to have to believe the police at first as finer details are saved for the court case. Once a chap has been present to hear the charges his legal representative can even demand to get information on those finer details. Now if only k. Jakrapob could come back for a moment

Agreed we believe the police, coming from countries that have a judicial system that is not directly under the control of the government.

Here it's different under martial law, and it's unreasonable to expect anybody to voluntarily come back to a fair hearing. The judicial system now reports directly to the junta, and in doing so has lost the independence necessary to make an impartial judgement. There is also the probability that the police, also reporting to the junta, would likely put forward circumstantial evidence, which would nonetheless result in a conviction, so as to keep their jobs.

Faced with such loaded odds, you wouldn't go back either, I suspect. In a backdrop of no transparency whatsoever, whom can we believe?

Some irrefutable real evidence would at least show us that they are sincere, and that this is not just a political ruse to shut up the opposition.

While your busy excusing him, what excuse can you provide for him for not returning during the three years of Yingluck's government when there was no martial law and the judicial system didn't report to the junta, and there was no need for a political ruse to shut up one of their own?

btw, the "real evidence" for any criminal case comes out at trial and generally isn't provided to anonymous internet users prior to the trial.

[northernjohn]

Revoking the passports of people who are outside the country, no matter who they are and what they are charged with, is a fundamental abuse of human rights.

Really! Why? The USA. UK and Australia have suggested they will do the same to extremists who travel abroad for terrorist activity.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only really effective in keeping them from returning (unfortunately) if they have dual citizenship, if they are Yanks, Poms or Aussies by birth then cancelling their passport doesn't stop them returning to their home countries. If naturalised then there is a good case for cancellation and refusing re-entry into the respective countries.

However, I'm not really sure where a country stands in refusing a passport or travel documents to a native of the country -- can anyone comment re the laws on this point ?

If there pass port is revoked they can still return to the country that they are a citizen of. They can not how ever enter any other country. As for a naturalized citizen not sure. I doubt it. I think they would first have to be found guilty of a crime. In that case most countries would not allow you to go to other countries for fun and games. They would have your passport as soon as you were found guilty if not before. Many criminals out on bail awaiting trial have to turn in their passports.

I could be wrong on that point but I don't think so in the so called civilized western countries.

[northernjohn]

Who else in the world are going to take any notice whatsoever of the draconian Thai Lese Majestie rule. I think , nobody living in the 21st centuary.

You can say all the stupid things you want to but let us see you go to Victory Monument and say them on a loud speaking system. Put your mouth out there for all to see. don't forget while you are running them down you chose to live here. In your case I believe it has been many years.

On the other hand maybe you are dead and speaking to us through a medium.

[Thanet]

'judicial system not directly under the control of the government' seems to fluently move into 'here's it's different under martial law'. You mean you recognise the 'current' government as such?

Anyway where did it say the judicial system reports directly to the junta or even the NCPO?

You still ask for irrefutable evidence, did you also ask that when previous governments had the judiciary accuse k. Jatupob? When Jakrapob was dropped by PM Somchai? What about Jonathan Head quoting Jakrapob in 2009 with

"Speaking to the BBC from in hiding, he said the movement would use different tactics to confront the government, including possible armed attacks"

Just empty talk as to be expected from a peaceful UDD founder?

I think that you are trying to deflect the argument from your weak reasoning by resorting to mere semantics. I don't refute that the NCPO is a government, albeit an authoritarian and unelected one, rather than a democratic one that is accountable to the Thai electorate.

As to who controls the judiciary, when the NCPO took over, it invoked total control by declaring under the barrel of the gun that all the branches of government, including the judiciary, were under its command. The NCPO has the power to court martial civilians if it so pleases, without legal representation. How's does this fit in with your concept of fair process, or perhaps you don't have one? If you don't have one, then that's fine, but please be truthful about it rather than trying to say one thing is another, when clearly it's not.

Lamentably, both sides have made comments relating to civil war, armed conflict and the like to their supporters. Indeed, Suthep's guards were armed too, with war weapons being found in abandoned PDRC sites. The PDRC was exhorting its supporters to fight with whatever means. The fact that only one side is being targeted over arms charges now, at this point in time, would further indicate that returning from exile is a one way ticket into the slammer.

Expecting people to come home to a fair trial is unreasonable.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Thanet

[rubl]

'judicial system not directly under the control of the government' seems to fluently move into 'here's it's different under martial law'. You mean you recognise the 'current' government as such?

Anyway where did it say the judicial system reports directly to the junta or even the NCPO?

You still ask for irrefutable evidence, did you also ask that when previous governments had the judiciary accuse k. Jatupob? When Jakrapob was dropped by PM Somchai? What about Jonathan Head quoting Jakrapob in 2009 with

"Speaking to the BBC from in hiding, he said the movement would use different tactics to confront the government, including possible armed attacks"

Just empty talk as to be expected from a peaceful UDD founder?

I think that you are trying to deflect the argument from your weak reasoning by resorting to mere semantics. I don't refute that the NCPO is a government, albeit an authoritarian and unelected one, rather than a democratic one that is accountable to the Thai electorate.

As to who controls the judiciary, when the NCPO took over, it invoked total control by declaring under the barrel of the gun that all the branches of government, including the judiciary, were under its command. The NCPO has the power to court martial civilians if it so pleases, without legal representation. How's does this fit in with your concept of fair process, or perhaps you don't have one? If you don't have one, then that's fine, but please be truthful about it rather than trying to say one thing is another, when clearly it's not.

Lamentably, both sides have made comments relating to civil war, armed conflict and the like to their supporters. Indeed, Suthep's guards were armed too, with war weapons being found in abandoned PDRC sites. The PDRC was exhorting its supporters to fight with whatever means. The fact that only one side is being targeted over arms charges now, at this point in time, would further indicate that returning from exile is a one way ticket into the slammer.

Expecting people to come home to a fair trial is unreasonable.

Expecting people to come home now where they didn't in the two and a half years their party ruled and their UDD had some leaders as MP in the ruling party, seems unlikely.

BTW not only one side is 'targeted over arms charged'. All who are found to have arms in their possession are charged. It just happens that most arms found till now happen to be in the possession of one side only (allegedly that is). Mind you, with those near nightly cowardly attacks on anti-government protesters that shouldn't surprise much.

All in all, it seems unlikely we'll see k. Jakrapob back in Thailand any time soon.

[mikemac]

Just because he's a fugitive from Thai law since 2009 doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Believe me, most of the fugitives from Thai law are criminals, that is why they are fugitives/on the run/flown the coop/absconded/done a runner etc etc etc. ( ask anyone who is serving time in prison and they will tell you they are innocent )

Except in the case of a well known former PM who is obviously as clean as a whistle who simply decided to go into "self imposed exile" !

[sweatalot]

None of these guys passports being revolted surprise me. They are dangerous criminals. Mr Charupong said "10 million guns were registered in Thailand. These are guns for self-defense,. He went on to say If anyone underestimates the power of the people, youll know about it. I believe that we must be prepared to enter a decisive situation.

Dr Weng of course defended his speech saying his statement at the red shirts' meeting that referred to 10 million guns owned by Thais was a warning against the use of violence in preventing a military coup but did not threaten any group, but then Dr Weng also said the UDD protestors went to the AEAN Summit in Pattaya to ensure peace and to facilitate that peace they stormed the summit with weapons.

One must respect the Junta's foresight and judgement in revoking the passports of these criminals. I wonder if Dr Weng will storm the NCPO headquarters with war weapons to peacefully ask the Junta to reconsider.

That is PTP logic right there.

Well done to the Right Honorable General Prayuth for taking a stand against criminals and overseas terrorist cells that want to harm Thailand and it's people.

Criminals ??? you muppet LOL ok

Yes, criminals.

Everybody who befriends with a criminal (like the gone ptp governments) and resists the better alternative is a criminal.

What are you, then?

[Fat Haggis]

Anyone who is found guilty of a crime would be l

Classed as a criminal . If that were indeed the case should we banish all our friends who fell foul of the law then and no longer class them as friends by your logic sweatalot ???

I have many friends who have criminal records that doesn't make me one!!! If anything it makes me a loyal friend who stood by these friends and didn't feel the need to ostracise them any more than that has been by being punished.

[ThailandNoob]

The miscreants should be returned to Thailand to face a court to address any charges being bought against them. I am sure the good General can find satisfactory accommodation for them.

Oh the cheek of it! How DARE these people speak out against a military dictatorship that has been widely condemned across the world!

[sweatalot]

Here it's different under martial law, and it's unreasonable to expect anybody to voluntarily come back to a fair hearing. The judicial system now reports directly to the junta, and in doing so has lost the independence necessary to make an impartial judgement. There is also the probability that the police, also reporting to the junta, would likely put forward circumstantial evidence, which would nonetheless result in a conviction, so as to keep their jobs.

So what you are saying the Thai police was believable before the coup

but now they are less believable? lol

Edited July 3, 2014 by sweatalot