Body found in Jerusalem after Palestinian youth forced into vehicle

[Ulysses G.]

Fatah are the half of the Palestinian Authority that are supposed to be the "good guys" as opposed to Hamas, the terrorist organizations whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel. From looking at their response to the murder of three Jewsih teenagers, they are not that far apart. Hamas, just came out and called the kidnappers ‘heroes'.

A cartoon on a Fatah Facebook page presented the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers as rats caught on three hooks on a fishing rod. Each rat was emblazoned with a Star of David, and the title of the cartoon read “Masterstroke.” A picture on the same Facebook page showed a hand with words written on three of the fingers. Read in succession they said: “Three Shalits, long live Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_of_Israeli_teens#.C2.A0Palestinian_National_Authority

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts have been deleted along with replies. The tone is getting rather inflammatory.

Please post in a civil manner and stay on topic.

[simple1]

When the jewish boys were kidnapped, i did not hear or read Arabs ordering to find those responsible, nor did i see Jewish people running around rioting

Now that an Arab teenager was killed, mind you the reason and cause has not been established yet, Israel has already opened an investigation to find those responsible and Arabs are rioting

When Jewish teenagers were killed, Hamas was having party to celebrate it.

When Israel responds to an attack with overwhelming force, it gets condemned for using excessive force and unverifiable civilian deaths, but when Arabs kill teenagers, the same people worry about the consequences for Arabs, instead of condemning the killing of 3 Jewish kids

Some posts removed to enable a response.

I believe the highlighted wording is correct, but at the same time constraints on Palestinian efforts are in-place

"At U.S. urging, Abbas was working closely with Israel to coordinate the search for the teens. A PA spokesman stated that holding Palestinian authorities responsible for kidnappings in Area C of the West Bank, where Israel exercises full military control and prohibits a Palestinian police presence places them in an impossible position"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_of_Israeli_teens#.C2.A0Palestinian_National_Authority

Lucky Arabs always have an excuse

Did PA authority go on their TV? Did Palestinian Press call for help?

Did PA police offer to help?

Who is the author of this master piece on wiki? PA public relations team? Not even a week since the deaths and there is a long well written article

Yes the PA did offer to assist in the search for the three teenagers, but as mentioned above were unable to do so, on the ground, as Israel prohbits them to operate in the actual search area. If you can be bothered there are main stream media reports that talk to this issue of Israeli restrictions on PA police in areas of the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas controlled media, as far as I know, did not contribute for the efforts in the search

The following does provide some background, but I suppose will also be belittled.

"Palestinian security forces are cooperating and assisting", said an Israeli military official.

Fatah Central Committee member; Mohammed Madani:

"The PA has in the past returned dozens of Israelis who mistakenly entered the West Bank. We greatly hope that these youths will be returned safely home. The Palestinian security establishment is making every effort to help find the youths"

Edited July 3, 2014 by simple1

[abrahamzvi]

Mahatma Ghandi said that with the "an eye for an eye" mentality the whole world will turn blind ...

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

Golda Meir

A founder of Israel and 4th Prime Minister

Mrs Golda Meir expressly denied the existence of a Palestinian nation. I , knowing the Middle east, strongly disagree with her statement. I do believe that a Palestinian mother suffers as much and as deeply as an Israeli mother, when losing a child, in the same way as other mothers, Thais, Chinese, English, German etc mothers do.

[Jingthing]

Mahatma Ghandi said that with the "an eye for an eye" mentality the whole world will turn blind ...

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

Golda Meir

A founder of Israel and 4th Prime Minister

Mrs Golda Meir expressly denied the existence of a Palestinian nation. I , knowing the Middle east, strongly disagree with her statement. I do believe that a Palestinian mother suffers as much and as deeply as an Israeli mother, when losing a child, in the same way as other mothers, Thais, Chinese, English, German etc mothers do.

Consider Meir's statement in reference to Palestinian child terrorists with bombs strapped to their bodies fooled into such horrors by ADULTS with dreams of martyrdom. Sure the children are loved, but the point is when the hate of the Jews is stronger ... there is no hope for peace. Yes such child bombers are rare now. Why? The walls which critics of Israel endlessly complain about ... consider why it went up in the first place, not for fun, not for good PR, but to stop terrorists.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Baerboxer]

I consider ALL acts of terror against innocent civilians as criminal acts. I criticise and sharply condemn the kidnapping and murdering of the three Israeli teenagers. However, shouldn't the Israeli authorities also be criticised and condemned for shooting innocent Palestinian youth? Further, I am wondering if the Israeli PM will condemn in the same sharp form this kidnapping and murder of a teenager, a Palestinian one, as President Abbas did in the case of the Israeli kidnapped teenagers?? Will the world show such indignation???

That's how the eye for an eye mentality works....

Following the funerals of the three Israelis kidnapped there were violent demonstrations in Jerusalem,

with right wing and religious protestors clashing with police and attempting to attack Arabs in the vicinity.

Extreme rightists attack Palestinians in Jerusalem as teens laid to rest

Several hundred right-wing extremists in Jerusalem started demonstrating, some of them attacking Arab passers-by, as the families of the three murdered teenagers were burying their sons in Modi'in.

Five Palestinians were attacked, and two of them needed medical treatment. The extremists were engaged in violent confrontations with police in the capital's center for several hours.

The police arrested 50 people suspected of involvement in the incidents. Public transportation in the center of town was disrupted for hours, and hundreds of youths ran through the downtown city streets yelling racist slogans and calling for revenge against Arabs.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.602523

An Israeli cabinet minister was on the BBC world news earlier and condemned this murder. He went so far as to say that should Israeli citizens be guilty of this attack then it should be regarded as a terrorist attack. The Israeli police should investigate all murders with the same attention.

Whoever murdered the 3 Israeli students and this Palestinian boy are criminals and deserve the appropriate punishment on conviction.

[Pralaad]

When the jewish boys were kidnapped, i did not hear or read Arabs ordering to find those responsible, nor did i see Jewish people running around rioting

Now that an Arab teenager was killed, mind you the reason and cause has not been established yet, Israel has already opened an investigation to find those responsible and Arabs are rioting

When Jewish teenagers were killed, Hamas was having party to celebrate it.

When Israel responds to an attack with overwhelming force, it gets condemned for using excessive force and unverifiable civilian deaths, but when Arabs kill teenagers, the same people worry about the consequences for Arabs, instead of condemning the killing of 3 Jewish kids

Some posts removed to enable a response.

I believe the highlighted wording is correct, but at the same time constraints on Palestinian efforts are in-place

"At U.S. urging, Abbas was working closely with Israel to coordinate the search for the teens. A PA spokesman stated that holding Palestinian authorities responsible for kidnappings in Area C of the West Bank, where Israel exercises full military control and prohibits a Palestinian police presence places them in an impossible position"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_of_Israeli_teens#.C2.A0Palestinian_National_Authority

Lucky Arabs always have an excuse

Did PA authority go on their TV? Did Palestinian Press call for help?

Did PA police offer to help?

Who is the author of this master piece on wiki? PA public relations team? Not even a week since the deaths and there is a long well written article

Yes the PA did offer to assist in the search for the three teenagers, but as mentioned above were unable to do so, on the ground, as Israel prohbits them to operate in the actual search area. If you can be bothered there are main stream media reports that talk to this issue of Israeli restrictions on PA police in areas of the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas controlled media, as far as I know, did not contribute for the efforts in the search

The following does provide some background, but I suppose will also be belittled.

"Palestinian security forces are cooperating and assisting", said an Israeli military official.

Fatah Central Committee member; Mohammed Madani:

"The PA has in the past returned dozens of Israelis who mistakenly entered the West Bank. We greatly hope that these youths will be returned safely home. The Palestinian security establishment is making every effort to help find the youths"

Please provide evidence that PA did and from independent source NOT from Arab propaganda machine

Please show one photo or any documented evidence PA did anything to assist

[Morch]

Israel is no better than those they seek to punish. It is one thing to to criticize another for doing harm and it is quite another to actively seek retribution. And let's not forget occupying a foreign land and building prison type walls to circle its inhabitants.

Netanyahu is completely out of his mind. He is a power hungry warmonger. He goes out of his way to avoid peace. His heart is very, very black. The way Israel treats the Palestinians is an abomination. No wonder they hate the Israelis as much as they do. I do not see much difference between the historic days of South African Apartheid, and the current Netanyahu policies. He is basically the Apartheid PM. Shame on him. Shame on the Knesset. Good on Obama for busting his balls.

Spidermike

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That is probably because you have some misguided notions about Palestinians being citizens of Israel, or that Israel annexed either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. The barrier (or separating wall) is more of a temporary border. Granted that the limbo in which the Palestinians exist is plain wrong.

You may want to consider that Israel got a large minority of Arab citizens, with cities and villages not surrounded by such a wall and being accorded full civilian rights (including a vocal representation in the parliament).

Apartheid is a catchy word, but it does not quite confirm to reality.

Sign for most of the other things you posted regarding Netanyahu, and then some.

[Morch]

How absurd. Wandering Arab. Look at a MAP of the Middle East. Arabs control a MASSIVE amount of land. Jews ... a TINY BIT. Jews have ONE weakly theocratic/mostly democratic state. Islam has a majority and/or Islamic states in ... how many, something like over FIFTY Islamic nations?

The "Arabs" are not a unified entity. Same goes for Muslims.

Thais being both Asian and Buddhist will not necessarily be well received en masse in some neighboring countries.

Same goes for other places around the globe.

De facto, there are quite a bit Wandering Arabs as a result of this conflict. We can go back and forth about reasons

leading to this situation and who bears most of the responsibility - doesn't change the facts.

[spidermike007]

Israel is no better than those they seek to punish. It is one thing to to criticize another for doing harm and it is quite another to actively seek retribution. And let's not forget occupying a foreign land and building prison type walls to circle its inhabitants.

Netanyahu is completely out of his mind. He is a power hungry warmonger. He goes out of his way to avoid peace. His heart is very, very black. The way Israel treats the Palestinians is an abomination. No wonder they hate the Israelis as much as they do. I do not see much difference between the historic days of South African Apartheid, and the current Netanyahu policies. He is basically the Apartheid PM. Shame on him. Shame on the Knesset. Good on Obama for busting his balls.

Spidermike

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That is probably because you have some misguided notions about Palestinians being citizens of Israel, or that Israel annexed either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. The barrier (or separating wall) is more of a temporary border. Granted that the limbo in which the Palestinians exist is plain wrong.

You may want to consider that Israel got a large minority of Arab citizens, with cities and villages not surrounded by such a wall and being accorded full civilian rights (including a vocal representation in the parliament).

Apartheid is a catchy word, but it does not quite confirm to reality.

Sign for most of the other things you posted regarding Netanyahu, and then some.

I may have some misguided notions about the Palestinians and otherwise. But, I do not think it is too much to ask Israel to treat them like human beings. They are always going on and on about the world's unwillingness to treat the Jews with dignity. Well, let's set an example please. Treat then with dignity and maybe some of that comes back.

Spidermike007

[Jingthing]

Granted, but why blame the Jews for that? So many Arabic and Islamic countries and still so many wandering Arabs. Israel used as the boogeyman. It doesn't add up.

[Morch]

How absurd. Wandering Arab. Look at a MAP of the Middle East. Arabs control a MASSIVE amount of land. Jews ... a TINY BIT. Jews have ONE weakly theocratic/mostly democratic state. Islam has a majority and/or Islamic states in ... how many, something like over FIFTY Islamic nations?

The "wandering Arab" could have 'wandered" right over to Jordan - the real Arab Palestine - which was given much of the land originally meant for a Jewish homeland.

“Palestine and Jordan are one…” said King Abdullah in 1948.

“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan,” said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.

“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate,” Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.

Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared, in 1980, “The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture.”

Again, people sharing the same general ethnicity and religion does not necessarily mean they are the same people.

As simple1 noted - having an even larger Palestinian population in Jordan would have probably lead to greater risk

of destabilizing the kingdom. Having a Palestine-in-Jordan was once deemed a good idea, but nowadays these

notions are pretty much scraped. Probably not in the best interests of Israel to have anyone other than the Hashemite

in charge.

[Ulysses G.]

Having a Palestine-in-Jordan was once deemed a good idea, but nowadays these

notions are pretty much scraped.

If you go back and look at the posts in this conversation, I was referring to the past.

[Morch]

Israel is no better than those they seek to punish. It is one thing to to criticize another for doing harm and it is quite another to actively seek retribution. And let's not forget occupying a foreign land and building prison type walls to circle its inhabitants.

Netanyahu is completely out of his mind. He is a power hungry warmonger. He goes out of his way to avoid peace. His heart is very, very black. The way Israel treats the Palestinians is an abomination. No wonder they hate the Israelis as much as they do. I do not see much difference between the historic days of South African Apartheid, and the current Netanyahu policies. He is basically the Apartheid PM. Shame on him. Shame on the Knesset. Good on Obama for busting his balls.

Spidermike

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That is probably because you have some misguided notions about Palestinians being citizens of Israel, or that Israel annexed either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. The barrier (or separating wall) is more of a temporary border. Granted that the limbo in which the Palestinians exist is plain wrong.

You may want to consider that Israel got a large minority of Arab citizens, with cities and villages not surrounded by such a wall and being accorded full civilian rights (including a vocal representation in the parliament).

Apartheid is a catchy word, but it does not quite confirm to reality.

Sign for most of the other things you posted regarding Netanyahu, and then some.

I may have some misguided notions about the Palestinians and otherwise. But, I do not think it is too much to ask Israel to treat them like human beings. They are always going on and on about the world's unwillingness to treat the Jews with dignity. Well, let's set an example please. Treat then with dignity and maybe some of that comes back.

Spidermike007

Like I said - the general treatment of the Palestinians and the limbo they are in are wrong. A lot of it is Israel's doing and its

responsibility. No argument with you there (even if I will add that the Palestinian leadership should shoulder its share of the

responsibility). My point was simply that the use of terms like Apartheid is both misguided and inflammatory (not necessarily

in the context of a topic on TVF, but as it being tossed around in world media).

I also agree that Jews, in general, ought to be more aware of this sort of things and perhaps try to exhibit a higher level of

moral conduct.

[Ulysses G.]

I may have some misguided notions about the Palestinians and otherwise. But, I do not think it is too much to ask Israel to treat them like human beings.

Considering the fact that they have been bitter enemies for over 100 years and the Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities, declared war on Israel numerous times, elected a terrorist group to represent themselves and shoot rockets at Israeli civilians to this day, I think that Israel has probably treated them a lot better than they deserve.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[simple1]

Yes the PA did offer to assist in the search for the three teenagers, but as mentioned above were unable to do so, on the ground, as Israel prohbits them to operate in the actual search area. If you can be bothered there are main stream media reports that talk to this issue of Israeli restrictions on PA police in areas of the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas controlled media, as far as I know, did not contribute for the efforts in the search

The following does provide some background, but I suppose will also be belittled.

"Palestinian security forces are cooperating and assisting", said an Israeli military official.

Fatah Central Committee member; Mohammed Madani:

"The PA has in the past returned dozens of Israelis who mistakenly entered the West Bank. We greatly hope that these youths will be returned safely home. The Palestinian security establishment is making every effort to help find the youths"

Please provide evidence that PA did and from independent source NOT from Arab propaganda machine

Please show one photo or any documented evidence PA did anything to assist

Posts removed to enable reply.

Well I have not seen any Israeli denial of the claim that was reported in the media, have you? However, here is an example....

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Palestinian-forces-extricate-Israeli-national-who-mistakenly-entered-West-Bank-village-351162

[Morch]

Fatah are the half of the Palestinian Authority that are supposed to be the "good guys" as opposed to Hamas, the terrorist organizations whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel. From looking at their response to the murder of three Jewsih teenagers, they are not that far apart. Hamas, just came out and called the kidnappers ‘heroes'.

A cartoon on a Fatah Facebook page presented the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers as rats caught on three hooks on a fishing rod. Each rat was emblazoned with a Star of David, and the title of the cartoon read “Masterstroke.” A picture on the same Facebook page showed a hand with words written on three of the fingers. Read in succession they said: “Three Shalits, long live Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_of_Israeli_teens#.C2.A0Palestinian_National_Authority

I do not think anyone is portrayed as the "good guys". Different levels of pragmatism and being reasonable, perhaps, yes.

As the full passage quoted states, there was a marked difference between Abbas's condemnation of the kidnapping and

popular reactions, which mostly supported it. Abbas's stand is to be commended, not an easy thing to express such a

position under the current political situation. This does not make him a saint, and can probably, at least in part, be attributed

to political considerations vs. the USA and the international community. But, and that's a big but - being diplomatic is better

that the alternative.

The whole thing is repeated, to a degree, right now in Israel. While many leaders denounce the kidnapping and murder of

the Arab boy, social media and quite a bit of popular sentiment is still in revenge mode, and very vocal about it. While it is

not a mirror image in terms of how many support this, it is still sizable.

[Ulysses G.]

Fatah are the half of the Palestinian Authority that are supposed to be the "good guys" as opposed to Hamas, the terrorist organizations whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel. From looking at their response to the murder of three Jewsih teenagers, they are not that far apart. Hamas, just came out and called the kidnappers heroes'.

A cartoon on a Fatah Facebook page presented the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers as rats caught on three hooks on a fishing rod. Each rat was emblazoned with a Star of David, and the title of the cartoon read Masterstroke. A picture on the same Facebook page showed a hand with words written on three of the fingers. Read in succession they said: Three Shalits, long live Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_of_Israeli_teens#.C2.A0Palestinian_National_Authority

I do not think anyone is portrayed as the "good guys". Different levels of pragmatism and being reasonable, perhaps, yes.

I have to disagree with you on that. You and I know that what you are saying is correct, but I think that Fatah are portrayed as the "good guys" by much of the press and much of the world buys it.

[Pralaad]

Yes the PA did offer to assist in the search for the three teenagers, but as mentioned above were unable to do so, on the ground, as Israel prohbits them to operate in the actual search area. If you can be bothered there are main stream media reports that talk to this issue of Israeli restrictions on PA police in areas of the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas controlled media, as far as I know, did not contribute for the efforts in the search

The following does provide some background, but I suppose will also be belittled.

"Palestinian security forces are cooperating and assisting", said an Israeli military official.

Fatah Central Committee member; Mohammed Madani:

"The PA has in the past returned dozens of Israelis who mistakenly entered the West Bank. We greatly hope that these youths will be returned safely home. The Palestinian security establishment is making every effort to help find the youths"

Please provide evidence that PA did and from independent source NOT from Arab propaganda machine

Please show one photo or any documented evidence PA did anything to assist

Posts removed to enable reply.

Well I have not seen any Israeli denial of the claim that was reported in the media, have you? However, here is an example....

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Palestinian-forces-extricate-Israeli-national-who-mistakenly-entered-West-Bank-village-351162

I have never seen you deny being anti Semite and constantly posting to degrade Israel, it does not mean you do not do it

Its called good PR,

PA did not try to block IDF from searches, but PA certainly did not help, and if you still unsure, teenagers were kidnapped by PA controlled people and held in PA controlled land and killed on PA controlled land.

Do you really believe PA helped? Who found the boys? and suspected killers? Most certainly was not PA security forces.

[Morch]

Yes the PA did offer to assist in the search for the three teenagers, but as mentioned above were unable to do so, on the ground, as Israel prohbits them to operate in the actual search area. If you can be bothered there are main stream media reports that talk to this issue of Israeli restrictions on PA police in areas of the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas controlled media, as far as I know, did not contribute for the efforts in the search

The following does provide some background, but I suppose will also be belittled.

"Palestinian security forces are cooperating and assisting", said an Israeli military official.

Fatah Central Committee member; Mohammed Madani:

"The PA has in the past returned dozens of Israelis who mistakenly entered the West Bank. We greatly hope that these youths will be returned safely home. The Palestinian security establishment is making every effort to help find the youths"

Please provide evidence that PA did and from independent source NOT from Arab propaganda machine

Please show one photo or any documented evidence PA did anything to assist

Posts removed to enable reply.

Well I have not seen any Israeli denial of the claim that was reported in the media, have you? However, here is an example....

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Palestinian-forces-extricate-Israeli-national-who-mistakenly-entered-West-Bank-village-351162

I have never seen you deny being anti Semite and constantly posting to degrade Israel, it does not mean you do not do it

Its called good PR,

PA did not try to block IDF from searches, but PA certainly did not help, and if you still unsure, teenagers were kidnapped by PA controlled people and held in PA controlled land and killed on PA controlled land.

Do you really believe PA helped? Who found the boys? and suspected killers? Most certainly was not PA security forces.

Most of the search and related activities were conducted in areas under Israel's control, not the PA's.

There's actually quite a bit around about Israel and the PA security co-operation, not only in relation

to current events. Not something both sides are eager to expose much, but beneficial to both (note

that many, if not most, of those arrested are Hamas people, something which acts in favor of the PA,

hence they do not make that much of a noise about it).

The recent Wikipedia page regarding the kidnapping references some of these instances:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

Another good read on this issue can be found here:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/26/bibi_and_the_lost_boys_netanyahu_israel_kidnapped_teenagers_abbas

[Pralaad]

Most of the search and related activities were conducted in areas under Israel's control, not the PA's.

There's actually quite a bit around about Israel and the PA security co-operation, not only in relation

to current events. Not something both sides are eager to expose much, but beneficial to both (note

that many, if not most, of those arrested are Hamas people, something which acts in favor of the PA,

hence they do not make that much of a noise about it).

The recent Wikipedia page regarding the kidnapping references some of these instances:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

Another good read on this issue can be found here:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/26/bibi_and_the_lost_boys_netanyahu_israel_kidnapped_teenagers_abbas

Again, since they cooperate all that much, why can you nor anyone else produce one string of evidence such as photo's or anything to substantiate the claims.

And since most of the search was conducted in areas under Israeli control, PA could NOT possibly assist, unless of course they attached 1 PA officer to each IDF search party and now calling it "assisting"

So you saying Hamas operatives run around freely under PA nose kidnapping and killing jews and all PA does according to you is cooperate with Israel instead of arresting and stopping Hamas?

The very same PA who claims to want to have peace with Israel, and land back, does little to absolutely nothing to stop attacks on Israel?

There are hundreds of links to different sites and opinions, so in all honestly for every one you post i can post back just as many contradicting your links.

PA is no different to Hamas, Hamas openly speaks and does,

PA smiles to your face but stabs you in the back, still smiling

[Morch]

Most of the search and related activities were conducted in areas under Israel's control, not the PA's.

There's actually quite a bit around about Israel and the PA security co-operation, not only in relation

to current events. Not something both sides are eager to expose much, but beneficial to both (note

that many, if not most, of those arrested are Hamas people, something which acts in favor of the PA,

hence they do not make that much of a noise about it).

The recent Wikipedia page regarding the kidnapping references some of these instances:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

Another good read on this issue can be found here:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/26/bibi_and_the_lost_boys_netanyahu_israel_kidnapped_teenagers_abbas

Again, since they cooperate all that much, why can you nor anyone else produce one string of evidence such as photo's or anything to substantiate the claims.

And since most of the search was conducted in areas under Israeli control, PA could NOT possibly assist, unless of course they attached 1 PA officer to each IDF search party and now calling it "assisting"

So you saying Hamas operatives run around freely under PA nose kidnapping and killing jews and all PA does according to you is cooperate with Israel instead of arresting and stopping Hamas?

The very same PA who claims to want to have peace with Israel, and land back, does little to absolutely nothing to stop attacks on Israel?

There are hundreds of links to different sites and opinions, so in all honestly for every one you post i can post back just as many contradicting your links.

PA is no different to Hamas, Hamas openly speaks and does,

PA smiles to your face but stabs you in the back, still smiling

I really doubt you bothered to read any of the links provided, and yet you keep asking for more or saying that Not sure what kind of pictures you expect to be presented, not something always available on the media anyway.

As far as I understand, from actually reading the links (and further, articles cited in them) - the PA's assistance is more to do with intelligence, continued search for the killers within A areas and allowing IDF to operate within A areas during the search. It may not seem like a big deal to you, for anyone familiar with the situation, it is.

Hamas has a presence in the West Bank, this is not a secret. They're present even in C areas, and in East Jerusalem. Again, if you're surprised by this or take it as something new - shows some lack of acquaintance with details. The PA actually runs tabs on Hamas in the West Bank as they are also their rivals. How dedicated they are is another matter, undoubtedly not as much as the Israelis. Again, you may downplay this as well, I do not think Israeli security services and the IDF share your point of view. Considering that the PA needs to beware of Palestinian public opinion, then so far their actions aren't too shabby, if not stellar.

There are hundreds of links and sites, yes. However, most of the links on the wiki page are factual, rather than opinion.

Quite odd that you keep taking a position not wholly supported by the Israeli government, the IDF and Israel's security services, but guess each to his own. Far as I'm aware, Israel still says the guilty party is Hamas, rather than the PA. It does not mean the PA are the "good guys", nor "angels". Hardly. It does not mean Israel does not oppose the deal between the PA and the Hamas. But with regard to this event - the Israeli finger is pointed at Hamas.

[Pralaad]

Most of the search and related activities were conducted in areas under Israel's control, not the PA's.

There's actually quite a bit around about Israel and the PA security co-operation, not only in relation

to current events. Not something both sides are eager to expose much, but beneficial to both (note

that many, if not most, of those arrested are Hamas people, something which acts in favor of the PA,

hence they do not make that much of a noise about it).

The recent Wikipedia page regarding the kidnapping references some of these instances:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

Another good read on this issue can be found here:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/26/bibi_and_the_lost_boys_netanyahu_israel_kidnapped_teenagers_abbas

Again, since they cooperate all that much, why can you nor anyone else produce one string of evidence such as photo's or anything to substantiate the claims.

And since most of the search was conducted in areas under Israeli control, PA could NOT possibly assist, unless of course they attached 1 PA officer to each IDF search party and now calling it "assisting"

So you saying Hamas operatives run around freely under PA nose kidnapping and killing jews and all PA does according to you is cooperate with Israel instead of arresting and stopping Hamas?

The very same PA who claims to want to have peace with Israel, and land back, does little to absolutely nothing to stop attacks on Israel?

There are hundreds of links to different sites and opinions, so in all honestly for every one you post i can post back just as many contradicting your links.

PA is no different to Hamas, Hamas openly speaks and does,

PA smiles to your face but stabs you in the back, still smiling

I really doubt you bothered to read any of the links provided, and yet you keep asking for more or saying that

Not sure what kind of pictures you expect to be presented, not something always available on the media anyway.

As far as I understand, from actually reading the links (and further, articles cited in them) - the PA's assistance is more

to do with intelligence, continued search for the killers within A areas and allowing IDF to operate within A areas during

the search. It may not seem like a big deal to you, for anyone familiar with the situation, it is.

Hamas has a presence in the West Bank, this is not a secret. They're present even in C areas, and in East Jerusalem.

Again, if you're surprised by this or take it as something new - shows some lack of acquaintance with details. The PA

actually runs tabs on Hamas in the West Bank as they are also their rivals. How dedicated they are is another matter,

undoubtedly not as much as the Israelis. Again, you may downplay this as well, I do not think Israeli security services

and the IDF share your point of view. Considering that the PA needs to beware of Palestinian public opinion, then so

far their actions aren't too shabby, if not stellar.

There are hundreds of links and sites, yes. However, most of the links on the wiki page are factual, rather than opinion.

Quite odd that you keep taking a position not wholly supported by the Israeli government, the IDF and Israel's security

services, but guess each to his own. Far as I'm aware, Israel still says the guilty party is Hamas, rather than the PA.

It does not mean the PA are the "good guys", nor "angels". Hardly. It does not mean Israel does not oppose the deal

between the PA and the Hamas. But with regard to this event - the Israeli finger is pointed at Hamas.

When did i say guilty party was PA?

Since when did WIki become factual instead of an opinion which can be edited by anyone?

Really, you should stop trying to come off as someone with superior knowledge, it is pretty clear all your knowledge is based on what you read on Internet and you are selective at that.

Hamas does not have the presence in the West Bank , but it does not mean Hamas operatives do not live in the West Bank

Again you keep bringing up PA intelligence,

What intelligence? do you have any proof or knowledge? NO, this is once again your opinion ONLY so do not try to pass it as a fact.

Lets see how long it takes Israel to arrest the killers of arab boy, shall we?!

Better yet, how about let PA intelligence do the investigation and see what they find

[Donnie Brasco]

Israel is no better than those they seek to punish. It is one thing to to criticize another for doing harm and it is quite another to actively seek retribution. And let's not forget occupying a foreign land and building prison type walls to circle its inhabitants.

Are you seriously suggesting that this is something done by Israeli authorities?

For one thing, details are still unclear, and second - police already on the scene.

The so called wall, is in many parts a fence, and does not encircle the West Bank.

Palestinian access to Israel is limited, yes, but that goes way before the barrier.

The barrier itself does not imprison, so much as keeps Israeli and Palestinians apart.

This concept is sometimes called APARTHEID.

Oh dear....

The Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority, Gaza, the Hamas and areas obviously controlled by them are not currently

a part of Israel, and are not likely to be in most reasonable solutions. Most of the Israeli public tacitly accepts this one

way or the other.

The barrier, separation wall (whatever people want to call it) - does not divide between citizens of the same country.

Thinking about it as a temporary border is more accurate.

Apartheid would require Israel to surround about 20% of its own population (Israeli Arabs) and restrict their movement,

curtail their rights etc.

The fact that there are a few million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza living in limbo as far as their political and

national definition is concerned, is to be abhorred. Israel most certainly got a large part in the creation and continuation

of this sorry state of affairs.

Apartheid, however, is probably not the term which describes it.

I am becoming increasingly weary of the anti-Islamic hate speech on this board.

If you wish to hear what Jews have to say on practically any facet of their history, their ethics and or their culture you have only to reference the exhaustive anthology of quotes by Jews on the web site "When Victims Rule". It's a free download.

Someone else muddled out a blurry reference non-Jews practicing Judaism . . . . . Well, according to Ashkenazi Jew Arthur Koestler many non-Sephardic, or European Jews fall into this category. These people, strictly speaking, are actually from the Caucasus. Gilad Atzmon, Shlomo Sand, and other Jews have also commented on several issues addressed in comments currently on the board.

"When Victims Rule" is an easy Google and an even easier free download. Download it and browse the index and the contents.

Here is one quote from an informed source. There are THOUSANDS of prominent Jewish thinkers and commentators rising up to contradict the assertions and misrepresentations truffling this particular thread.

"We enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in theft and finding justification for all these activities. Passionately desiring to keep the occupied territories, we developed two judicial systems: one - progressive, liberal - in Israel; and the other - cruel, injurious - in the occupied territories. In effect, we established an apartheid regime in the occupied territories immediately following their capture. That oppressive regime exists to this day."

(Michael Ben-Yair, 3 March 2002) (emphasis added)

All of the comments in "When Victims Rule" are by Jews about Judaism and being a Jew.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[Donnie Brasco]

The Jews who migrated to Palestine after World War 2 are not descendants of the Hebrews you read about in the Bible. They are descended from Khazars in central Asia, near present-day Russian Georgia, who converted to Judaism in 800AD. Khazaria fell a century later and the descendants of the converted Jews migrated northward into Russia and west into Europe.

This group of Jews, called Ashkenazi, are not descended from any of the 12 tribes described in the Bible. DNA tests confirm this, as does their pale skin that makes it clear they are not originally from the Middle East.

Thus, Israel's claim to the lands of Palestine rests solely on the fact that they have adopted the religion of a people who lived on that land thousands of years ago. One might just as easily adopt the religion of Ra and on that basis lay claim to Egypt.

Of course, common sense says that simply adopting the religion of the Sun Dance does not give me a claim to the lands of the United States. Were I to worship Ra (or Aten), likewise does not give me a claim to the lands of Egypt. Worshipping Sol Invictus does not give me claim to Italy.

And worshipping Yahweh does not give the Khazars any real right to Palestine.

Just something to think about.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[Jingthing]

This is getting weird and VERY creepy, but just so people know. Interestingly there are genetic links between different Jewish ethnic segments and also Italians, Palestinian Arabs, etc.

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100603/full/news.2010.277.html

Jews worldwide share genetic ties

But analysis also reveals close links to Palestinians and Italians

The study provides a genetic basis for confirming or debunking theories of Jewish origin and history, says Ostrer. For example, one theory proposes that Ashkenazi Jews (of eastern European origin) are largely descended from Khazars in eastern Europe who converted to Judaism, but the genetic closeness between Ashkenazi Jews and other non-European Jews does not support this idea.

As far as skin color variation, it is a basic fact of anthropology that skin color changes very fast evolutionary speaking (after migration), and very white and very black people can often have VERY SIMILAR genetic profiles.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[simple1]

Yes the PA did offer to assist in the search for the three teenagers, but as mentioned above were unable to do so, on the ground, as Israel prohbits them to operate in the actual search area. If you can be bothered there are main stream media reports that talk to this issue of Israeli restrictions on PA police in areas of the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas controlled media, as far as I know, did not contribute for the efforts in the search

The following does provide some background, but I suppose will also be belittled.

"Palestinian security forces are cooperating and assisting", said an Israeli military official.

Fatah Central Committee member; Mohammed Madani:

"The PA has in the past returned dozens of Israelis who mistakenly entered the West Bank. We greatly hope that these youths will be returned safely home. The Palestinian security establishment is making every effort to help find the youths"

Please provide evidence that PA did and from independent source NOT from Arab propaganda machine

Please show one photo or any documented evidence PA did anything to assist

Posts removed to enable reply.

Well I have not seen any Israeli denial of the claim that was reported in the media, have you? However, here is an example....

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Palestinian-forces-extricate-Israeli-national-who-mistakenly-entered-West-Bank-village-351162

I have never seen you deny being anti Semite and constantly posting to degrade Israel, it does not mean you do not do it

Its called good PR,

PA did not try to block IDF from searches, but PA certainly did not help, and if you still unsure, teenagers were kidnapped by PA controlled people and held in PA controlled land and killed on PA controlled land.

Do you really believe PA helped? Who found the boys? and suspected killers? Most certainly was not PA security forces.

A rather snide insinuation, critic Israel, you’re anti-semitic. However, I will answer your question, no I am not anti semitic, nor do I subcribe to any of the Abrahamic religions.

On a personal note I was educated in London, the private school I attended comprised 600 of the Jewish faith, I was one of twelve termed, Gentile.

[Scott]

This thread is beginning to stray off-topic. If you wish to have the current discourse continue, you will have to be civil to one another and respectful of other people's beliefs and political position.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

[Ulysses G.]

Thus, Israel's claim to the lands of Palestine rests solely on the fact that they have adopted the religion of a people who lived on that land thousands of years ago. One might just as easily adopt the religion of Ra and on that basis lay claim to Egypt.

What utter nonsense.

Number one. There were plenty of Jews in Palestine before WW II - all the way back to the Roman Empire and long before that - and plenty that were not Ashkenazi.

Number two. Religion aside, the Israelis claim to the lands of Palestine rests on the fact that both peoples lived in the area, but the Arabs tried to wipe them all out. The Jews started fighting back. The UN came up with a plan to give both people their own countries. The Arabs refused, attacked the Jews and got their butts kicked. Israel won the war of 1948 and all of them since. They have a thriving viable country and they can defend themselves, while the Palestinians have no land and are in a purgatory of their own making.

THAT is the Israelis claim to the lands of Palestine

Edited July 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

All of the comments in "When Victims Rule" are by Jews about Judaism and being a Jew.

So what? In case you have not noticed, people in Western-style democracies have a variety of opinions on everything. That includes Jews too. Cheery-picking the ones that support your positions proves next to nothing. The vast majority strongly disagrees with them.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.