Organiser of Veera event to be summoned: NCPO

[khunken]

Veera, a prominent Thai? You got to be joking. Maybe to you. No one heard of Veera until he pop up at the border and got arrested for espionage. In his PAD active days, he was a small fry. Perhaps he wanted to gain quick notoriety by accompanying a much more prominent Dem MP Panich to the border. He is so prominent that only about 100 people turned out at his welcome gathering. Now he is infamous, certainly not prominent. He is just another ex-jail bird.

Yes Eric I know that your sympathies don't allow you to view what is plainly in the spotlight.

Veera may have been a virtual unknown before his arrest in Cambodia but ever since then he became a well-known pawn in Thai-Cambodian relations. Even Yingluck's mob tried to get him released.

He is now very well-known (i.e. prominent) and the number who turned out to welcome him is hardly surprising in the current clamp-down on political activities - affecting both sides which the Op reinforces.

Your post is just sour grapes.

100 people wow. 5000 turned up apparently to welcome Suthep home, but this to was not an illegal gathering.....

It was not an illegal gathering because as we all know Suthep has them over the barrel with much evidence of collusion and no doubt many promises of cushy positions to boot.

The numbers that turn up to welcome their heros is a meaningless statistic and 5,000 is probably OTT anyway. Gatherings to welcome people are not organised by the 'heros' and are ad hoc - rather difficult to totally ban people's movements.

The point that you and your ilk fail to mention is that both Suthep and Veera have been told to stop their activities as they are political.

Currently the General has Suthep (& everyone else) 'over a barrel' and rumours of 'promises' is nothing more than propaganda.

[khunken]

Now you're shifting the goalposts. Here's your original comment:

Since the Khmer Rouge victory in 1975, Cambodia has never had a military coup.

Well it did - two actually. The one by Hun Sen & the military and the Vietnamese take over from Pol Pot's mob. OK the second one was more of an invasion, but it satisfies the 'military' and 'coup' definitions.

BTW the north Vietnamese army (Ho Chi Min's) did overturn a corrupt and murderous 'government' backed by the US - at great cost.

No I didn't change it and won't. A "military coup" is when the military takes over the country from a non-military (or stretch it - military from military; that has happened in Thailand). But a coup precisely means the military took over the country.

That has not happened in Cambodia, ever, since 1975. The military has killed lots of Cambodians, but has never staged a coup, which is a military takeover.

Similarly the (North) Vietnamese army never took over their government and thus has never staged a coup. There are lots of ways to phrase what they did, but they one thing they did NOT do is stage a military coup.

.

Sorry Wanda but Hun Sen's military take-over was a coup and no spinning or stretching of definitions will alter that.

I'm not sure whether your comment about the north Vietnamese refers to Cambodia or Vietnam itself but their take over from Pol Pot was a (foreign staged) military coup.

You seem to have a problem with coups somehow, rewriting their history to make Thailand's look worse than the last 2 have been.

[wandasloan]

Sorry Wanda but Hun Sen's military take-over was a coup and no spinning or stretching of definitions will alter that.

I'm not sure whether your comment about the north Vietnamese refers to Cambodia or Vietnam itself but their take over from Pol Pot was a (foreign staged) military coup.

You seem to have a problem with coups somehow, rewriting their history to make Thailand's look worse than the last 2 have been.

You aren't even being pedantic. Britain did not stage a military coup in Berlin in 1945. Washington did not stage a military coup in America in 1783. The PAVN did not stage a military coup against the French in Hanoi in 1954. The Cambodian army did not stage a coup in Phnom Penh in 1997. The Royal Thai Army staged a(nother) coup in 2014.

What does it matter what I think about coups? No history or encylopaedia or dictionary writer consults me about it. We are discussing whether Cambodian had a MILITARY COUP and it hasn't had one since we saw Lon Nol's back. The military never have been in charge of Cambodia in any capacity, let alone a seizure of power.

.

[khunken]

Sorry Wanda but Hun Sen's military take-over was a coup and no spinning or stretching of definitions will alter that.

I'm not sure whether your comment about the north Vietnamese refers to Cambodia or Vietnam itself but their take over from Pol Pot was a (foreign staged) military coup.

You seem to have a problem with coups somehow, rewriting their history to make Thailand's look worse than the last 2 have been.

You aren't even being pedantic. Britain did not stage a military coup in Berlin in 1945. Washington did not stage a military coup in America in 1783. The PAVN did not stage a military coup against the French in Hanoi in 1954. The Cambodian army did not stage a coup in Phnom Penh in 1997. The Royal Thai Army staged a(nother) coup in 2014.

What does it matter what I think about coups? No history or encylopaedia or dictionary writer consults me about it. We are discussing whether Cambodian had a MILITARY COUP and it hasn't had one since we saw Lon Nol's back. The military never have been in charge of Cambodia in any capacity, let alone a seizure of power.

.

Pedantic moi? Alright have it your way - Hun Sen alone on his steed staged a coup in 1997. Yep that makes sense.

What the UK, US did in their endeavours is not only irrelevant but not 'even pedantic'. No one has said that the military was in power in Cambodia. I suppose they stood and watched as Hun Sen did his bit.

This just gets more & more ridiculous so that's enough for me.

[robblok]

Sorry Wanda but Hun Sen's military take-over was a coup and no spinning or stretching of definitions will alter that.

I'm not sure whether your comment about the north Vietnamese refers to Cambodia or Vietnam itself but their take over from Pol Pot was a (foreign staged) military coup.

You seem to have a problem with coups somehow, rewriting their history to make Thailand's look worse than the last 2 have been.

You aren't even being pedantic. Britain did not stage a military coup in Berlin in 1945. Washington did not stage a military coup in America in 1783. The PAVN did not stage a military coup against the French in Hanoi in 1954. The Cambodian army did not stage a coup in Phnom Penh in 1997. The Royal Thai Army staged a(nother) coup in 2014.

What does it matter what I think about coups? No history or encylopaedia or dictionary writer consults me about it. We are discussing whether Cambodian had a MILITARY COUP and it hasn't had one since we saw Lon Nol's back. The military never have been in charge of Cambodia in any capacity, let alone a seizure of power.

.

Pedantic moi? Alright have it your way - Hun Sen alone on his steed staged a coup in 1997. Yep that makes sense.

What the UK, US did in their endeavours is not only irrelevant but not 'even pedantic'. No one has said that the military was in power in Cambodia. I suppose they stood and watched as Hun Sen did his bit.

This just gets more & more ridiculous so that's enough for me.

You cant discuss with her she is obsessed and spins all the facts. Its a word game for her. The Thai coup was bloodless while the takeover from Hun Sen cost 30-40 deaths or so. She still thinks the Thai coup was worse while no deaths and it solved killings.

As I said word games that is all she is good in. Logic.. not.

Edited July 7, 2014 by robblok

[rubl]

Just for those red spec supporters who think the martial law is only being imposed against the red shirts.

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

http://ilaw.or.th/node/3146

Now if only the statistics would have separated the political parties from the violent protester groups

BTW how much bigger is the Democrats party compared with the Pheu Thai party?

Edited July 7, 2014 by rubl

[smutcakes]

Just for those red spec supporters who think the martial law is only being imposed against the red shirts.

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

http://ilaw.or.th/node/3146

Now if only the statistics would have separated the political parties from the violent protester groups

BTW how much bigger is the Democrats party compared with the Pheu Thai party?

And if only the statistics would show which party has continually had power taken from them via unconventional means.

You can never condone violence, but continuing trampling on the choices of the people inevitably causes anger and frustration, which ultimately in some cases leads to a small percentage turning to violence. In no way does it excuse it, but it is understandable that some of the more misguided elements turn to it.

[robblok]

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

http://ilaw.or.th/node/3146

Now if only the statistics would have separated the political parties from the violent protester groups

BTW how much bigger is the Democrats party compared with the Pheu Thai party?

And if only the statistics would show which party has continually had power taken from them via unconventional means.

You can never condone violence, but continuing trampling on the choices of the people inevitably causes anger and frustration, which ultimately in some cases leads to a small percentage turning to violence. In no way does it excuse it, but it is understandable that some of the more misguided elements turn to it.

Taksin has himself to thank for this and his amnesty.

Besides winning an election does not mean you can rape the country with popular policies and free convicted criminals. If they had just played by the rules we would never be at this point.

Also if they had arrested people like the trad killers (now shown to be red) and not shown bias in handling the constant attacks on the anti government again we would not be here.

Now to the statistics of how many on each side have been arrested.

This is quite easy to explain and I wonder (actually I don't because i know their bias) why reds cant see it.

There were 2 groups protesting, and the Democrats were not part of it they were standing on the side line. There were not that many leaders of the PDRC and all those that counted were arrested.

Now the red shirts and the current government were known for their violence even killing kids (hard to dispute now). They were talking about a bloody uprising if a coup happened they spread rumors of an underground army. In a scenario like that the army handled it the way they should by making sure this could not happen.

I am sure more then a few red supporters here are sad that there is no violence or bombs going off in BKK to force the junta to stop. This is because the junta acted so decisively and took them all in. They diffused this whole situation and are doing a great job.

I read in an other news thread that they want to give the EC the power to check election promises of parties and to ban popular policies. This is a giant step forward and probably the end of the PTP.

Back where I come from the Netherlands there are organisations that do the same they calculate election programs for financial feasibility so its a fair election. So you cant buy votes with a flawed program. This for instance would have prevented the giant losses on the rice program. I can only say the red side will cry a lot more because finally the rule of law has come and make the raping of this beautiful country harder.

[rubl]

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

http://ilaw.or.th/node/3146

Now if only the statistics would have separated the political parties from the violent protester groups

BTW how much bigger is the Democrats party compared with the Pheu Thai party?

And if only the statistics would show which party has continually had power taken from them via unconventional means.

You can never condone violence, but continuing trampling on the choices of the people inevitably causes anger and frustration, which ultimately in some cases leads to a small percentage turning to violence. In no way does it excuse it, but it is understandable that some of the more misguided elements turn to it.

had power taken from them for undemocratic activities, true, true.

Mind you, some parties seem to rely a bit more heavily on those poor, misguided elements they themselves seem to have created and even rewarded with cozy, immunity enabled parliamentary seats

[smutcakes]

Taksin has himself to thank for this and his amnesty.

And if only the statistics would show which party has continually had power taken from them via unconventional means.

You can never condone violence, but continuing trampling on the choices of the people inevitably causes anger and frustration, which ultimately in some cases leads to a small percentage turning to violence. In no way does it excuse it, but it is understandable that some of the more misguided elements turn to it.

Besides winning an election does not mean you can rape the country with popular policies and free convicted criminals. If they had just played by the rules we would never be at this point.

Also if they had arrested people like the trad killers (now shown to be red) and not shown bias in handling the constant attacks on the anti government again we would not be here.

Now to the statistics of how many on each side have been arrested.

This is quite easy to explain and I wonder (actually I don't because i know their bias) why reds cant see it.

There were 2 groups protesting, and the Democrats were not part of it they were standing on the side line. There were not that many leaders of the PDRC and all those that counted were arrested.

Now the red shirts and the current government were known for their violence even killing kids (hard to dispute now). They were talking about a bloody uprising if a coup happened they spread rumors of an underground army. In a scenario like that the army handled it the way they should by making sure this could not happen.

I am sure more then a few red supporters here are sad that there is no violence or bombs going off in BKK to force the junta to stop. This is because the junta acted so decisively and took them all in. They diffused this whole situation and are doing a great job.

I read in an other news thread that they want to give the EC the power to check election promises of parties and to ban popular policies. This is a giant step forward and probably the end of the PTP.

Back where I come from the Netherlands there are organisations that do the same they calculate election programs for financial feasibility so its a fair election. So you cant buy votes with a flawed program. This for instance would have prevented the giant losses on the rice program. I can only say the red side will cry a lot more because finally the rule of law has come and make the raping of this beautiful country harder.

Robblock,

I cannot disagree with much of what you say in principle especially re banning populist policies, however most policies are 'populist'in nature in that any party has policies which are used to gather support from particular groups of people in all countries not just Thailand. It is obviously a very subjective area as to what amounts to populism, and provided the EC act neutrally it is a good starting point, but i believe much more detail needs to be given as to what constitutes a 'populist' policy, as most policies are populist by nature, including some of the things the NCPO have done so far. Why does the south nearly universally vote for the Democrat party? Is it because they are better off with them in power? are the policies that make them better off and vote Democrat populist? or just those in the north/north east? As you well know vote buying has been going on all over Thailand from the beginning of time, and in my view it could potentially be scaled back, but simply will never be eliminated sadly. When their are so much riches at stake, there will always be a way for voting one way or another to be influenced. (nationwide)

I do feel however that the EC have to do something to improve their reputation. Whether rightly or wrongly many people fear that they did not particularly do everything in their power to hold elections previously, and some feel they were very much intentionally putting spanners in the works. It is all to easy to advise that the elections could not go ahead, but did they really do everything in their power, or was it just easier for them to say they should not go ahead. I also massively disagree with ruling re votes were void because they were not held on the same day. There are similar instances where this has happened previously and that ruling has never been mentioned before, not to mention i believe it sets an extremely dangerous precedent for the future.

The elections could not happen due to disruptive protests, by a group seen by some to be associated or in cahoots with the military by some, and only enhanced by comments of their leader. The reason for the army intervention was because innocent people being killed, if this was the reason why did they not have a coup when the red shirts were protesting? Anyway i am just rehashing old stuff which we will probably never see eye to eye on.

I hope the NCPO do a good job, i am just more skeptical than most. I don't see them as particularly neutral, and i also don't see them as paragons of virtue themselves. It is putting a huge amount of faith in a small group of persons, who themselves are heads of sections of the armed forces who have long history of cronyism, questionable budget management/purchases, alleged human rights abuses and corruption themselves. Lets keep our fingers crossed that they are what they want to appear to be. Corruption is endemic through all walks of life in Thailand, it would be nothing short of a miracle that the people now running the country have got to where they are today without................... i will leave it there.

[whybother]

Sorry Wanda but Hun Sen's military take-over was a coup and no spinning or stretching of definitions will alter that.

I'm not sure whether your comment about the north Vietnamese refers to Cambodia or Vietnam itself but their take over from Pol Pot was a (foreign staged) military coup.

You seem to have a problem with coups somehow, rewriting their history to make Thailand's look worse than the last 2 have been.

You aren't even being pedantic. Britain did not stage a military coup in Berlin in 1945. Washington did not stage a military coup in America in 1783. The PAVN did not stage a military coup against the French in Hanoi in 1954. The Cambodian army did not stage a coup in Phnom Penh in 1997. The Royal Thai Army staged a(nother) coup in 2014.

What does it matter what I think about coups? No history or encylopaedia or dictionary writer consults me about it. We are discussing whether Cambodian had a MILITARY COUP and it hasn't had one since we saw Lon Nol's back. The military never have been in charge of Cambodia in any capacity, let alone a seizure of power.

.

Why are you discussing whether Cambodia had a military coup? Does the fact that they did or didn't make any difference to Hun Sen's dictatorship now?