Marriage

[meemiathai]

Say in the west, if the man goes out to work whilst the wife stays at home, is he buying a wife?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Say in the west, if the man goes out to work whilst the wife stays at home, is he buying a wife?

I'm afraid this one is a bit too deep for me.

[Jeepz]

Is he buying a wife what?

Jeepz

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is he buying a wife what?

Jeepz

Hehehehe too hard for you too Jeepz We'll be mutually ignorant

[meemiathai]

Meaning the man pays for everything. Is that a purchase?

[Jeepz]

No, an obligation according to some. Just being obliging to others.

Jeepz

[Yohan]

So....  you have bought them 2 houses and a pickup already...

And the problem now is the 100000 baht and some gold?

The amount doesn't matter, it was the principle.

I don't understand the principle???

And for, Yohan, very nice input. "kau jai mak mak"

Quite a new situation:

This poster did not mentioned anything about, that he paid already 2 houses and a pick-up truck and that he has already good connections to the village, where his wife and parents are living. So my reply was written presuming that the so-called dowry is only baht 100.000- and some gold-rings and nothing else.

However, I can also give you some advice in your above situation, indeed, my friend did the same as you did - but skillful in business, he made it as a business, and did not forget some security for himself.

Let me say it in this way: Many Thais are good people and will appreciate your financial support very much, however not all Thais are thinking in this way.

Did you ever, beside the monks and the headman of the village, and some of their friends around, consult a lawyer by your own for legal advice?

If such an amount of money is involved, you should take legal steps to secure for what you pay for. It is not wrong to ask for security, and the promise of a Thai girl together with the whole village to marry you, is not security enough, I would say.

The point is: ALL THAI PEOPLE LIKE THE IDEA OF BUSINESS, SO MAKE A BUSINESS OUT OF IT WITH YOUR MONEY TOGETHER WITH THE MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY!

What my friend did:

1-

He paid the house for the parents, but he requested a legal contract, to make it clear, who paid for that. And the land registration papers for the parents house are in his hands, in a bank depot on his name, and this not even in Thailand.

This house/land cannot be sold easily without his approval.

2-

He paid also the condominium for his wife and himself, but this is foreign ownership registrated, paid out of his foreign currency and the registration papers are also locked in the same bank depot outside of Thailand.

This is his condominium, and not the condominium of his wife.

3-

He paid also for a convenience shop, which is running successfully, and together with the relatives of his wife. However the shop, located in a condominium area for foreigners, is registered as shareholding company, with his name as the director, and the shop is registered like a condominium owned by himself....

all registration papers are in his hands and it is up to him, to appoint or dismiss the shareholders (these are the family members of his wife)

4-

He bought also land and constructed 10 apartments for Thai nationals with the help of his wife...His wife makes the administration and is the land owner, but he is the director of the company and the investor, and nothing can be changed without his knowledge and agreement.

5-

Finally he bought also cars, which are including even some transportation/taxi licences. Again, the Thai company and cars (mini-bus, pick-up trucks) are on his name as director.... still the company is growing.....

Yes, 100.000 baht was some flower and food arrangements for the marriage and some gold rings for everybody (the gold was much more expensive than the 100.000,- baht.)

Let me say, he did not pay any dowry at all, just he was using his money carefully over a longer period.......and now he is something like the king of this little village not far from Chiang Mai.

About his marriage: His wife never complains...... she is happy. But should she ever dare to do so, he needs only complain about her to her parents, who will quickly replace her with her sister......

So again, be careful:

Some small regular payments to the parents, if your wife is out of a poor family is OK, it is the custom also among the Thais and you should accept that.

Some payment for the marriage party and gifts and some cash for the parents for that occasion is also OK, and you should not refuse that, it would make a bad impression for the locals there, if you do so.

However to pay for complete housings and cars and shops is not the usual way in Thailand to be expected as a GIFT from the foreign husband in return for love of a Thai girl.

If you do so, make it as a business, and consider yourself as well.

This should be clearly said.

Johann

http://www2.gol.com/users/johann

[bernard]

Thank you Yohann for your comprehensive advice. I really do appreciate it. Your point 1, with regard to having the houses registered to ensure that all concerned are aware of where the money has come from for their construction has got me asking more questions. Perhaps this is not the place to go into details deeply. However, when the houses were built I and the family went to the local aumphur office to do precisely what you have suggested. To put it bluntly, I was told to sod off as it was impossible for a farang to do anything like that.

Well, I just shrugged my shoulders and considered that to be the end of that. I am not that worried about it. Life is for living and all that stuff.

I don't have enough money left to purchase a Thai registered company (10M Baht), having spent it on a trust fund for my child and adopted children. Basically, everything I do now comes from what I earn.

I don't consider any of this to be 'buying a wife or lover' as some would think. Besides, how is it in Thailand any different from the rest of the world. Rhetorical question. You can't take any of it with you.

[Yohan]

Bernard:

I like to reply one time more about this matter.

You should contact a Thai lawyer and try to study a bit about Thai laws. Even now some hints might be proof as useful for you in the future.

1- You as foreigner cannot own land, but Thai people can own you money, legally confirmed in a contract, in a form, which is accepted by any Thai authority. - Take this contract, and the official land papers of the house-owner as guarantee, and lock that originals in a bank depot outside of Thailand, and keep copies of it with you in Thailand.

Believe me, the house-owner (the parents of my friends wife) would have a very very hard time, if ever they try to sell *their* own property. Beside that, in case of death, the heir (his wife, her brother and her sister) must consider the foreigner - if they like that or not.

2- You do not need such a lot of money for your *own* company. Just make a share-holding, with you as director as the 1st shareholder, who cannot be removed out of this company, the other 6 shareholders are the Thai relatives. They take your investment for the shop, they take your investment for the cars, they take your investments for the apartments....

This works, and should it not work, in fact you can dismiss and replace these shareholders (all relatives of my friends wife)

3- Such legal constructions makes no sense as long as you have no problems with the Thai family.

I know however a case, where the wife suddenly died some months after marriage because of an accident. And suddenly her Thai parents had the idea, that they do not like this foreigner, as they accepted him only because of her daughter.......

And many Thai relatives showed up to get a little part out of the dead, but rich Thai wife.

Finally they asked the foreign husband to pay for the funeral of his Thai wife and asked him to move out of the land and house which was paid out of HIS money.

Their argument was just based on supersticious religious reasons, that the foreign husband brought unhappiness to their only daughter. (He was not even with her on the motor-cycle, when she died of a traffic accident)

I think, marriage and dowry - investment and business should be strictly separated.

In no case investment and business should be mixed up as a precondition for marriage and dowry. -

Warning:

Many foreigners like Thai people (especially girls), but not all Thai people like foreign men.

Johann

As I told you my friend has no problem with his Thai wife. She is happy with him.

But should his wife ever get crazy and leave him with another foreigner, all her family members will promptly act to replace her with her younger sister -

otherwise all of them might be out of job in a couple of days -

Hihi, business is business......especially as foreigner you should try to run on a level, which is considered to be EQUAL with the Thai family.

[bernard]

Thanks again Yohann.

Anybody know any REALLY good lawyers?

[Yohan]

Thai laws are unpredictable, and the laywers are the same. However there are some rules, which are simple even for the foreigner....

1- Always keep the original land registration papers with you in a very safe place.

If the owner does not have them, and gives them to you, because he needs your money and he signs, that he received the money, then he is in trouble... he cannot sell easily his land/house without your permission.

2- For debits, or simple transactions there are ready forms to fill in.....and receipts - you can prepare that and translate that (or ask for translation) before any transaction will be made.

3- For condominium insist always for foreign ownership, make the contract, the foreign currency exchange form, and the receipt of the payment in your name. It cannot be registrated then for another person by the construction company, and if it is a real estate broker, do not pay anything without the condominium registration in original with your name in it in return.

4- Keep money, you do not need, outside of Thailand in only your name.

If this is done, you are already somehow protected, if you meet the wrong Thai girl....

Johann

[mango head]

what is the polite Thai way of saying you do not agree to paying the 100,000 + gold to the parents of your intended bride?

Just do what I did. Tell them mai kau jai.

[et33.com]

thanks for the extra store of info

that's now inside me head

i am building an ever better picture

of what to do when i come in to Thailand