Angry Patong vendors heckle Phuket officials and army

[BradinAsia]

Because the whole fabric of society is corrupt! to make changes now is going to be very difficult. Good luck to them.

"The whole fabric" of what society?

If you find a gang of crooks in New York or London or Sydney, does that

make everyone in the country (the whole fabric of society) corrupt?

Seems like a flaming generalization at best.

[Cake Monster]

Time to do the same here at Pattaya by the parasol.( cant see the ocean ), but the BIB would probably have something to say on that, due to loseing a fair wedge of tea money from the vendors

[CiaranO]

One of the biggest problems in Thailand is the real lack of consequences for these people - nothing happens to them - they are not prosecuted - they are not audited to see how little or no tax they have paid etc The corrupt Government officials who took bribes to allow this are never hunted down, prosecuted, fired or imprisoned. Nothing happens to these people.

Although it is nice to see the army doing something constructive for Thailand and Phuket what happens when a civilian government is back in power? Back to the normal status quo i guess because all these guys are still there in power in local government waiting for that moment.

[Oziex1]

Time to do the same here at Pattaya by the parasol.( cant see the ocean ), but the BIB would probably have something to say on that, due to loseing a fair wedge of tea money from the vendors

I think the BIB are the lackeys for the army now, they may complain but with boys in green standing over next to them they are showing a remarkable enthusiasm for doing their job.

[Emster23]

Thai people can be very clever and adaptable. I bet they could adapt to honest business dealing in not too long a time. I would love to see the vendors and the municipal graft takers in a meeting. Have to be more exciting than some of the world cup matches... now that would be reality TV.

[captnhoy]

Because the whole fabric of society is corrupt! to make changes now is going to be very difficult. Good luck to them.

"The whole fabric" of what society?

If you find a gang of crooks in New York or London or Sydney, does that

make everyone in the country (the whole fabric of society) corrupt?

Seems like a flaming generalization at best.

I have to agree with clockman. To say it another way, corruption is so widespread and so accepted here even when people are not directly participating. In my dealings here I often see gov't officials allowing Thais to lie about sales prices and reduce taxes. It's all done with a wink and a big smile by all parties. It's a way of life. It's the norm. Having said that, I don't see the "contract holder" as quite the lowlife that many here do. The fact that she cries foul so openly suggests a naievete about her contract and it's validity. I conclude that she may be thinking "Since such dealings are the norm, how can they be wrong?" On the other hand I believe that the officials who "sold her" this contract probably know by the number just exactly which laws they are violating. They do deserve the harshest punishment. We can only hope.

[LivinginKata]

I have to agree with clockman. To say it another way, corruption is so widespread and so accepted here even when people are not directly participating. In my dealings here I often see gov't officials allowing Thais to lie about sales prices and reduce taxes. It's all done with a wink and a big smile by all parties. It's a way of life. It's the norm. Having said that, I don't see the "contract holder" as quite the lowlife that many here do. The fact that she cries foul so openly suggests a naievete about her contract and it's validity. I conclude that she may be thinking "Since such dealings are the norm, how can they be wrong?" On the other hand I believe that the officials who "sold her" this contract probably know by the number just exactly which laws they are violating. They do deserve the harshest punishment. We can only hope.

Good not agree more, see it almost every day. It's all just endemic here in Thailand, accepted practice.

[steelepulse]

>>Having said that, I don't see the "contract holder" as quite the lowlife that many here do. The fact that she cries foul so openly suggests a naievete about her contract and it's validity.

While I agree with you points about endemic corruption and everyone being used to it, I have to disagree with the above you stated.

Imagine the "contract holder" thinking on the day she signed her "contract" "Wow, I can't believe the other 3,256 restaurants in Patong overlooked this prime piece of beach. They are so stupid renting legal shophouses! I must be the luckiest, smartest person in Patong to get this prime land".......................

Of course she knew she was breaking the law and was paying the privilege for it.

[FATOZ]

Because the whole fabric of society is corrupt! to make changes now is going to be very difficult. Good luck to them.

"The whole fabric" of what society?

If you find a gang of crooks in New York or London or Sydney, does that

make everyone in the country (the whole fabric of society) corrupt?

Seems like a flaming generalization at best.

While I do agree with you up to a point, I was discussing corruption with a hotel worker several years ago, and her reaction was "not only is Thailand corrupt, we are the best in the world at it"

[BradinAsia]

Because the whole fabric of society is corrupt! to make changes now is going to be very difficult. Good luck to them.

"The whole fabric" of what society?

If you find a gang of crooks in New York or London or Sydney, does that

make everyone in the country (the whole fabric of society) corrupt?

Seems like a flaming generalization at best.

I have to agree with clockman. To say it another way, corruption is so widespread and so accepted here even when people are not directly participating. In my dealings here I often see gov't officials allowing Thais to lie about sales prices and reduce taxes. It's all done with a wink and a big smile by all parties. It's a way of life. It's the norm. Having said that, I don't see the "contract holder" as quite the lowlife that many here do. The fact that she cries foul so openly suggests a naievete about her contract and it's validity. I conclude that she may be thinking "Since such dealings are the norm, how can they be wrong?" On the other hand I believe that the officials who "sold her" this contract probably know by the number just exactly which laws they are violating. They do deserve the harshest punishment. We can only hope.

Tourist areas all over the world, like magnets, are plagued with scams, shystering and corruption.

However, common sense tells us that the tourist areas -- whether in Phuket or Perth or Panama,

represent less than 5% of their respective country's population. Just bcoz you may have chosen

to live in one of those low-life areas, please don't paint all of us with your plagues and problems.

The real Thailand (away from the tourist areas) probably has less corruption than your hometown

in farang-land.

[patongphil]

Because the whole fabric of society is corrupt! to make changes now is going to be very difficult. Good luck to them.

"The whole fabric" of what society?

If you find a gang of crooks in New York or London or Sydney, does that

make everyone in the country (the whole fabric of society) corrupt?

Seems like a flaming generalization at best.

I have to agree with clockman. To say it another way, corruption is so widespread and so accepted here even when people are not directly participating. In my dealings here I often see gov't officials allowing Thais to lie about sales prices and reduce taxes. It's all done with a wink and a big smile by all parties. It's a way of life. It's the norm. Having said that, I don't see the "contract holder" as quite the lowlife that many here do. The fact that she cries foul so openly suggests a naievete about her contract and it's validity. I conclude that she may be thinking "Since such dealings are the norm, how can they be wrong?" On the other hand I believe that the officials who "sold her" this contract probably know by the number just exactly which laws they are violating. They do deserve the harshest punishment. We can only hope.

Tourist areas all over the world, like magnets, are plagued with scams, shystering and corruption.

However, common sense tells us that the tourist areas -- whether in Phuket or Perth or Panama,

represent less than 5% of their respective country's population. Just bcoz you may have chosen

to live in one of those low-life areas, please don't paint all of us with your plagues and problems.

The real Thailand (away from the tourist areas) probably has less corruption than your hometown

in farang-land.

All our hometowns are not in Zambia or The DRC.

[NomadJoe]

"'I have a contract with the municipality allowing me to do business on public land.'"

I suggest he/she asks for his/her money back.

[NomadJoe]

The heads of the municipality need to have their assets seized, as this was clearly abuse of their positions.

Trading for 3 years on public land?

Wonder how much rent they paid and to who?

Last but not least, I wonder how much tax was paid by these 500 businesses? I will guess it is not a single baht.

Good riddance.

Officials with power and authority take as much money as they can in order to buy more powerful positions, then jump ship hopefully just before getting caught. This happened with all the dodgy land titles issued (bought) from the land department. When the big investigations started, none of the officials who signed the papers were still employed by the land office, nor could they be found. Being a "public servant" of any kind in Thailand is an entrepreneurial affair!

[spidermike007]

Sorry but you're squatters and you bribing the local government to let you build your restaurants there doesn't make it legal. It's time to take out the trash!

Go Army!

Exactly. Just because you have gotten away with it for years, by bribing the Patong mayor, and his mafia crew, does not mean it is right, legal, or allowed. Those clowns have been making up the rules for decades, buying villas with the cash, squirreling away millions of dollars overseas, and living like princes, with their ill gotten gain. Patong is one of the worlds cesspools. Someone needs to clean it up. One of the reasons the military took over was because things were out of control. This restaurant owner was part of the problem. What on earth is wrong with the rule of law? A foreign concept here, I will admit, but not a bad one, as long as it is not overdone.

[captnhoy]

Because the whole fabric of society is corrupt! to make changes now is going to be very difficult. Good luck to them.

"The whole fabric" of what society?

If you find a gang of crooks in New York or London or Sydney, does that

make everyone in the country (the whole fabric of society) corrupt?

Seems like a flaming generalization at best.

I have to agree with clockman. To say it another way, corruption is so widespread and so accepted here even when people are not directly participating. In my dealings here I often see gov't officials allowing Thais to lie about sales prices and reduce taxes. It's all done with a wink and a big smile by all parties. It's a way of life. It's the norm. Having said that, I don't see the "contract holder" as quite the lowlife that many here do. The fact that she cries foul so openly suggests a naievete about her contract and it's validity. I conclude that she may be thinking "Since such dealings are the norm, how can they be wrong?" On the other hand I believe that the officials who "sold her" this contract probably know by the number just exactly which laws they are violating. They do deserve the harshest punishment. We can only hope.

Tourist areas all over the world, like magnets, are plagued with scams, shystering and corruption.

However, common sense tells us that the tourist areas -- whether in Phuket or Perth or Panama,

represent less than 5% of their respective country's population. Just bcoz you may have chosen

to live in one of those low-life areas, please don't paint all of us with your plagues and problems.

The real Thailand (away from the tourist areas) probably has less corruption than your hometown

in farang-land.

I certainly agree with your conclusions about tourists areas. I however do not live in a tourist town, Claiming to know where I live perhaps illustrates how big are your blinders. And I stand by my observations - I'm not painting as some folks on TV are, I'm observing.

Edited July 10, 2014 by captnhoy

[Just1Voice]

I live in Chiang Mai, which is another Thailand when compared to the southern tourist magnets, but let's face it, there's still corruption here. About 3 years back a Thai couple bought the biggest, most expensive house in this moo ban, and the lot next to it. About 6 mil baht, and paid cash. Then dropped an easy 2 mil into renovations and landscaping. She was late 30's, he was early 40's, and he had just "retired" from RTP as a Lt. Colonel. But the guy has a serious attitude problem, and all the neighbors hated him. Now the place is up for sale and he & family have moved on.

The husband of my wife's favorite cousin is a Sr.Sgt Major with RTP. The cousin herself runs one of the biggest cock fighting schemes in CM. They live in a very modest home, nothing fancy, and their only sign of "wealth" is a new Toyota 4WD truck they bought about 6 months ago, which they paid cash for. According to my wife, they have multiple bank accounts in the name of their kids, and have what she says is "tons of money" stashed in them.

This morning my wife left to go look at a business in Mae Jo she is considering taking over. I asked if she wanted me to go with her. "No! Owner see farang husband, price doubles!" So, she's going to look at it, discuss the price, get a firm commitment, THEN take me to see it and see what I think.

So, does corruption exist here? Of course it does, just not as blatantly "in your face". Hey, this IS Thailand we're talking about, right? Does double pricing exist here? You bet it does, until they come to know you and know you are not a tourist and can speak some Thai, then they smile and give you the Thai price.

This is Thailand, it is what it is.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Just1Voice

[NamKangMan]

I have a contract from the Patong Municipality allowing me to build my restaurants here

The person who had signed that contract should be arrested, and it should be established how much money was involved for giving that contract.

"Suriya Sintoke, Managing Director of the Solemio Group, which has had two medium-sized wooden restaurants on Patong Beach selling Thai and European food, pizzas and drinks for the past three years" - that puts the business start up date under Mayor Keesin's reign.

Sure, the current Mayor would have receieved monthly payments, but it was Keesin that received the bulk of the corrupt payments, over many, many years.

Is Keesin still on Phuket? Is even even still in Thailand? Or have they let him fly out to Dubai.

[NamKangMan]

Sorry but you're squatters and you bribing the local government to let you build your restaurants there doesn't make it legal. It's time to take out the trash!

Go Army!

If they do have a contract from Patong Municipality they can take Patong Municipality to court for breach of contract.

you are bang of course. But we all know her contract is a brown paper envelope each month - I guess this is called a contract.

Yes, obviously a "verbal contract" - backed up by baht.

[JetsetBkk]

Awwwww diddums.

Som nam naa, you low-life dross.

A little harsh! She thinks she's hi-so dross.

[belg]

so where is the written contract or does she mean, brown envelope ?

[AJBangkok]

The irony of it is that if these people complain ( and can prove ) about the brown envelopes they've been handing over then they are actually confessing to a crime of bribing a government official . That's 2-5 years in the slammer while the government official gets a wrist slap and moved to an inactive post.

[NamKangMan]

The irony of it is that if these people complain ( and can prove ) about the brown envelopes they've been handing over then they are actually confessing to a crime of bribing a government official . That's 2-5 years in the slammer while the government official gets a wrist slap and moved to an inactive post.

Yes, but it's all about having a salary today, not about getting 2-5 years gaol, tomorrow.

[LivinginKata]

One off topic (political) post removed.

[falkan]

Suriya Sintoke is famous in Patong..=)

[Oziex1]

Suriya Sintoke is famous in Patong..=)

And now infamous

[mikebike]

Sorry but you're squatters and you bribing the local government to let you build your restaurants there doesn't make it legal. It's time to take out the trash!

Go Army!

If they do have a contract from Patong Municipality they can take Patong Municipality to court for breach of contract.

steven - you cannot sue for breach of an illegal contract.

[stevenl]

Sorry but you're squatters and you bribing the local government to let you build your restaurants there doesn't make it legal. It's time to take out the trash!

Go Army!

If they do have a contract from Patong Municipality they can take Patong Municipality to court for breach of contract.

steven - you cannot sue for breach of an illegal contract.

One can always sue, what it brings is a different matter.

Is it illegal if the authority that is tasked with the preservation of this resource gives out the contract? I doubt it is.

But I also doubt very much there is a contract.

[craigt3365]

Unfortunately, the Bangkok Post won't let us put links here, but if you look for an article titled "The great Phuket Cleanup", it's very interesting reading. Right now, it's on the front page of their website.

[jpeg]

God I'm sick of all this Brown Envelope tosh. This island has been left to itself by Bangkok Central forever. And NOW they're making a big show of doing something about it. Don't tell me they didn't know what was going on with this place decades ago. Why didn't they do anything to stem the tide of rampant corruption/greed before?

Edit: I already KNOW the answer

Edited July 13, 2014 by jpeg

[Oziex1]

God I'm sick of all this Brown Envelope tosh. This island has been left to itself by Bangkok Central forever. And NOW they're making a big show of doing something about it. Don't tell me they didn't know what was going on with this place decades ago. Why didn't they do anything to stem the tide of rampant corruption/greed before?

Edit: I already KNOW the answer

Because they were surfing on their own tide of rampant corruption and greed, but you already new that.