Open Gay Relationships

[Ijustwannateach]

The topic came up in another thread, but it's a little off-topic there, so I thought I'd open a separate one.

1. What defines an open relationship?

2. Do they work? Can they work? Who is a good candidate for one?

3. Are you in one? How is it working out? How about in the past?

4. How common or rare do you think they are in the gay community?

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1. I think an open relationship is defined by a pair (or a greater number of committed partners) who agree that they don't need to maintain sexual exclusivity. They may involve a set of rules ranging from no rules at all, to very general guidelines about what kinds of extra"marital" sex and partners are permitted, to "don't ask, don't tell," to very strict rules, even a requirement that a third sex partner must always be shared. I think there is one implicit rule in all these relationships: the outside partners cannot be allowed to interfere in the main relationship between/among the original partners- this relationship is usually viewed as being more emotionally/fiscally important, along with whatever sexual bonds there are.

I would add that for the situation to be a real and ethical "open relationship" and not "cheating," it requires responsibility by the partners for their behavior both to the other partners and to the outside sex partners. Each partner must feel secure that the outside sex partner will not threaten the relationship, and the outside sex partners must be fully informed of what they are getting into: in other words, full and early disclosure that you have a boyfriend and no pretending that you're single and available.

2. Some of the couples I know in open relationships of various sorts are the most stable that I know. It may be that we men, who are possibly naturally polygamous, can have the best of both worlds in this manner: security at home and the variety that our bodies (possibly) crave. Lacking one or the other may be an unsatisfactory lifestyle for many men.

I know of no inherent logical reasons preventing them from working except perhaps for jealousy, but that does not seem to be a problem for all individuals.

3. I'm not in one now and I never have been, but I've given serious thought to them in light of the rather, um, footloose and fancy-free gay culture here in Bangkok.

4. As I said in the other thread, an older friend of mine has claimed that every older gay couple he knows well is either openly or covertly having sex outside the partnership. I have no reason to doubt him, and I know a number of younger gay couples in this kind of arrangement as well. I think to have a dedicated monogamous relationship may be an ideal, especially among the young, but it seems very rarely one realised for long.

"Steven"

[AsiaWolfie]

wise words and smoothly analyzed, as usual from ijustwannateach. not much left to add, as I agree with almost everything.... I think when a relationships starts, nobody wants it to be "open".... it just happens after a while..... to make an open relationship working , there must be 100% TRUST, and such thing needs time.... trust is like a young plant.... needs a lot of care and attention, and can easily be destroyed.... as for me, I didnt have an open relationship yet, and I doubt I could get along with that..... but who knows, maybe one sees things more relaxed after a few years in a relationship.... so, never say never..... but I think its even more difficult to have an open relationship with an Asian, as an Asian (and THAI in particular) usually will not tell you what is inside his heart..... no matter how much u encourage him to be open and frank....

Edited June 27, 2006 by AsiaWolfie

[ProThaiExpat]

I agree with much of what IJWT said until he got to the last line of his post "I think to have a dedicated monogamous relationship may be an ideal, especially among the young, but it seems very rarely one realised for long."

I don't think I am "rare" when it comes to being in a monogamous relationship. Perhaps "westerners" coming from sex driven societies have little chance of maintaining a monogamous relationship, however, I have always been monogamous in my relationships with men, however, my partners have not always been. When they strayed, it was the first step toward the inevitable breakup.

As to IJWT's "rules", IMO they are silly as emotions of individuals are not amenable to "rules". The the likelihood of "falling in love/lust" with a new person only increases with the frequency of exposure.

"Three ways", in my experience and observation are a sure indicator of a breakup to be.

My view of open relationships is they are more of a "roommate" nature, while loving, committed and stable, I really don't think they are of the level of intimacy and devotion experienced in monogamy, the ideal of all long term relationships whether straight or gay.

I am well aware of the "European model" of marriage, where many men have mistresses and in Thailand they speak of the mistress as the "second wife". However, these models are of only one other person in a sexual liaison with the male, not multiple sexual partners.

I must say, on reflection, my only true disagreement with IJWT is with his use of the word "rare", to describe monogamy among men.

Edited June 27, 2006 by ProThaiExpat

[HB2010]

wise words and smoothly analyzed, as usual from ijustwannateach. not much left to add, as I agree with almost everything.... I think when a relationships starts, nobody wants it to be "open".... it just happens after a while..... to make an open relationship working , there must be 100% TRUST, and such thing needs time.... trust is like a young plant.... needs a lot of care and attention, and can easily be destroyed.... as for me, I didnt have an open relationship yet, and I doubt I could get along with that..... but who knows, maybe one sees things more relaxed after a few years in a relationship.... so, never say never..... but I think its even more difficult to have an open relationship with an Asian, as an Asian (and THAI in particular) usually will not tell you what is inside his heart..... no matter how much u encourage him to be open and frank....

i have to say that i love this web site, especially this forum. seems i'm reading some post every day. you have me worried "AsiaWolfie". i know it's early in my realtionship with my thai b/f, but i wasn't aware that thai's, in particular, don't open their hearts and express their feelings. i do and so far, he has as well. could this be one of those "cultural things" that i have to worry about? for a successful relationship to work; one has to be honest, trusting and above all, communicate....and communicate....and communicate. an "open" relationship is not for me, but i'm sure it's cool for others; i'd be so zealous ( it's a terrible emotion ). i want this relationship to work and i know i have to compromise. probably alot, but it's okay. anyway, thanks and take care!

[TopChinese]

Some further leading questions:

- Why would two men who are decidedly in love with each other, decide to seek sexual relations with another man?

- Is it possible to separate your love for someone and your lust to enjoy other men at the same time?

- Can you say you love someone if you also enjoy being intimate and doing the same things with the man you love, with other men?

- If you are in an open relationship, and you meet another man that you could fall in love with, would you break up your open relationship to be with another man?

These have been puzzling me for a while after my 5 year open relationship with a man whom I thought I could spend my life with. He then left me to be with a man his age. The elements of what made a relationship work were there. The usual buzzwords; openness, frank communication, enjoying the occasional 3somes, being happy for someone you love etc etc. What went wrong was simply he realised that our relationship was not what he wanted and he met someone else who shared his values.

So in response to IJWT's question (2), one challenge that is constantly underestimated in an open relationship is that the nature of the relationship invites one partner to constantly re-evaluate his decision to be in such a relationship. When you are free to meet other men in a intimate context, your resolve in commiting emotionally or fiscally to a single man will be tested constantly. So if it doesn't work out, maybe it wasn't meant to be?

Can a gay couple be monogamous? I think this is a personal decision, and to respected for the strength of character and resolve in two people. It may not be the most fashionable thing to do in our so called gay community, and certainly not the easiest. But yes, with the right guy, anything can be possible.

Thanks for starting this thread, IJWT.

[jdinasia]

I am totally ambivalent on the subject.

It appears <to me> that most men are not meant for fidelity BUT can will themselves to it. <for the most part .. and most of the time>

However, there are some men that just ARE NOT cut out of the fidelity cloth. They may want to be ... but they aren't. I have MANY friends that are this way. Start in a relationship saying this time they will be different etc.

I rather respect the guys that learn from this and say to the next guy they are dating .. "this is dating." then move on from there! Staying honest and open enough the whole time to really develop real meaningful long-term relationships that defy the stereotyping of others that say it cannot exist ....

<cheers to all of you no matter how it works for you >