Thailand's EC defends its proposals to overhaul political system

[webfact]

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
EC defends its proposals to overhaul political system
Pravit Rojanaphruk,
Chanikarn Phumhiran,
Attayuth Bootsripoom
The Nation


Somchai

Ideas to reform electoral set-up done for 'The best interests of the country'

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission (EC) yesterday denied that its reform plan put to the National Council for Peace and Order last week came at the expense of politicians, saying its intentions were above-board - to make polls free and fair and allow only good people to serve the public.

"We did not suggest the proposal by following someone's order. We don't want to please anyone in particular. We just want to give good solutions to the junta, which asked us for our opinion," EC member Somchai Srisutthiyakorn told Nation Multimedia Group.

The EC's recommended measures have been heavy criticised, especially by politicians, with some claim they restrict MPs' rights.

But its proposals may be just a small part of a large number made by other agencies to the junta under its request, he said.

"It may be just one of the 100 replies [the junta received]," he said, adding that it was too early to say if any of them would be adopted.

The proposals were submitted to Surasak Kanjanarat, permanent secretary of the Defence Ministry, who heads the NCPO's reform panel.

Among the more controversial parts was one limiting members of parliament to two consecutive four-year terms.

Somchai said he did not make the proposal or believe such measures could really prevent political families from extending their influence, as spouses, children and relatives of ex-politicians could always replace them as proxies.

The suggestion to have half of MPs coming from the party-list system would boost the chance of small parties competing with bigger parties and reorient all parties towards vying more on policies, he said.

All senators should be appointed, as electing them "won't do any good", he said.

"The process of obtaining them would be like that of MPs and we would end up creating a fiefdom of spouses of MPs and senators," he said.

However, the selection process for the Upper House should be made more fair, rigorous, inclusive and representative than the existing one where a panel of seven people has the final say.

Somchai also threw his weight behind an idea to try to stop political parties from campaigning on specific monetary promises or populist policies that voters will enjoy in return for their votes.

Pheu Thai Party's policy of raising the minimum wage to Bt300 per day was an example. Such policies may not be sustainable and such ploys could see parties competing on populist policies for votes. While political parties should have the right to espouse concrete policies, they should not specify fiscal figures, he said.

On the bigger picture, politicians were to blame for the coup, he said, as they were unwilling to compromise and this eventually led to the power seizure on May 22.

"Politicians didn't try to protect democracy and that's why the situation is like this. They should have learnt to take some steps back and be flexible. If [the then ruling Pheu Thai Party] had accepted [the EC's proposal to defer the election], the situation today wouldn't be like this."

But protracted political division was still festering and only temporarily submerged by the NCPO.

"It's as if it's under the water," he said of the dormant political rift.

Key points in Election Commission reform proposals

Electoral system: A mixed system of both constituency-based and party-list MPs should be maintained. The number of constituency-based MPs, however, should be reduced to the same number of party-list MPs. As a result, each constituency should still have one MP but its size will be bigger.

Senate: Appointed only.

MPs: Their term should be limited to two consecutive four-year terms. Their parents, children, and spouses should be banned from running in the same election term. People convicted of election fraud, drug offences, and lese majeste should be banned from running in an election.

Cabinet: Prime ministers and Cabinet members who have stepped down or lost their posts should not serve as caretakers, with permanent secretaries taking over.

Election Commission: The EC should be solely responsible for scheduling an election date without requiring approval from the PM.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/EC-defends-its-proposals-to-overhaul-political-sys-30238422.html


-- The Nation 2014-07-14

[lostsoul49]

It was mostly a stupid and ill thought out set of reforms if I remember.

They have over a year until the next election, so what's the rush?

Go too fast and mess it up as always, or spend at least the next six months putting together a much better list of reforms and get it right.... What's the problem??

In the end... All you rally need are harsh penalties for political parties who break the rules with LIFE bans and party dissolutions in extreme cases.

Make the parties 100% accountable for the behaviour of their campaigners and supporters, all threats, intimidation etc etc to see instant expulsions of candidates without the option to replace them, so in effect losing that party its chance of winning that seat.

It isn't hard.

Basic rules and ENFORCE them with extreme prejudice.

[thesetat2013]

Well they should make so that any criminal offence is a ban from all politics. Also if under criminal investigation they should be banned until the outcome of the investigation either clears them or convicts them.

Ageeing with lostsoul I think they are moving too fast and its bound to fail and have many loopholes. But they do need to have some responsibility for their supporters actions to prevent attacks against other parties. Protests are fine but when they get violent and the party supports their followers and dont act against their actions (a sign of support) then they should be held accountable as well.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 13, 2014 by thesetat2013

[noitom]

What exactly is the election commissions' responsibility and more importantly, their accountability? What is their organizational report?

[Snig27]

"Pheu Thai Party's policy of raising the minimum wage to Bt300 per day was an example. Such policies may not be sustainable and such ploys could see parties competing on populist policies for votes. While political parties should have the right to espouse concrete policies, they should not specify fiscal figures, he said."

What on earth does he think democracy is about? The man is an idiot.

[fab4]

Ah, Somchai, proving without doubt that he was the man for the job - just not this job, don't let him anywhere near providing suggestions on an important part of the democratic process.

The Election Commission (EC) yesterday denied that its reform plan put to the National Council for Peace and Order last week came at the expense of politicians, saying its intentions were above-board - to make polls free and fair and allow only good people to serve the public.

and as part of this allowing only good people to serve the public, he comes up with this,

All senators should be appointed, as electing them "won't do any good", he said.

..........for whom will it "not do any good"? Just who will appoint these "good" Senators?

[gamini]

The upper house must be appointed like the House of Lords in the UK. And candidates must be screened so that only honest and good people stand for election!

[siampolee]

The suggestion to have half of MPs coming from the party-list system would boost the chance of small parties competing with bigger parties and reorient all parties towards vying more on policies, he said.

And that ''party list system'' is yet another cancer upon the face of Thai politics.

A scam scheme so as to let the cancerous scourges of Thai politics of all political beliefs gorge from the financial swill troughs of corruption.

However as these ramblings are but ''proposals'' they will be treated with the contempt the greater majority of (if not all in fact) they deserve and be consigned to waste bin.

Edited July 14, 2014 by siampolee

[fab4]

Electoral system: A mixed system of both constituency-based and party-list MPs should be maintained. The number of constituency-based MPs, however, should be reduced to the same number of party-list MPs. As a result, each constituency should still have one MP but its size will be bigger.

A variation on the theme to load the bases as tried by abhisit in his constitutional amendment to the organic act for the election of MP's before the 2011 Election. That obviously didn't work so here's another attempt to get the "good" people in power. Make the constituencies bigger whilst reducing the number of MP's overall. No prizes for guessing where the burden of losing seats will fall. Under abhisits amendment in 2011, 16 seats were lost in the traditional PTP northern constituencies, just 4 seats were lost in the south.

The Democrat Party traditionally performs better in the Party List vote stakes but loses out on constituency votes - so the EC proposes to the junta that they increase the number of party list seats so that they equal constituency seats - a no-brainer if you want to rig elections.

[Thai at Heart]

I.e.

Its not our fault that the ideas were really stupid and a 16 year old could have done better.

[Baerboxer]

Ah, Somchai, proving without doubt that he was the man for the job - just not this job, don't let him anywhere near providing suggestions on an important part of the democratic process.

The Election Commission (EC) yesterday denied that its reform plan put to the National Council for Peace and Order last week came at the expense of politicians, saying its intentions were above-board - to make polls free and fair and allow only good people to serve the public.

and as part of this allowing only good people to serve the public, he comes up with this,

All senators should be appointed, as electing them "won't do any good", he said.

..........for whom will it "not do any good"? Just who will appoint these "good" Senators?

The appointed senators in Canada and Eire seem to do their jobs very well.

What I find very strange here is this party list system - and to suggest reducing the number of elected constituency MP's seems a retrograde step.

All parties must me made to produce proper manifestos containing details of their proposed policies should they win. Not vague comments or promises of riches that can't be sustained or don't make sense. The Dutch have a good process on this.

Maybe something is lost in the translation and what he meant by "good" was crooks, and those who were corrupt once before should not be allowed to serve again. And those found to be corrupt in office should be dismissed and barred?

One thing for sure the EC cannot and must not decide this on their own. They just don't have that capability.

[londonthai]

The guy, who failed february elections, dares to voice his antidemocratic stance, blaming the government for the military coup.

The only way forward is a 'people's constitution' from 1997, drafted by popularly-elected constitutional drafting assembly.

The days of military dominated governments are over. If it continues, there would be public uprisings, as many times in the thai history.

[Traveling Sailor]

The upper house must be appointed like the House of Lords in the UK. And candidates must be screened so that only honest and good people stand for election!

Being from America, I respectfully disagree. The upper house members should all be elected. Two Senators from each Province, elected by the people of that Province only.

The lower house members should also all be elected, based on population in each Provence.

Also, I would like to see the Executive and Legislative branches become completely separate. The Prime Ministers' cabinet members, and the Prime Minister, should have no say in what the Legislative branch does or how it does it. The Legislative branch should be elected by the people of each Province, with no interference from the PM or cabinet members.

[fab4]

The appointed senators in Canada and Eire seem to do their jobs very well.

What I find very strange here is this party list system - and to suggest reducing the number of elected constituency MP's seems a retrograde step.

All parties must me made to produce proper manifestos containing details of their proposed policies should they win. Not vague comments or promises of riches that can't be sustained or don't make sense. The Dutch have a good process on this.

Maybe something is lost in the translation and what he meant by "good" was crooks, and those who were corrupt once before should not be allowed to serve again. And those found to be corrupt in office should be dismissed and barred?

One thing for sure the EC cannot and must not decide this on their own. They just don't have that capability.

I'm sure the appointed senator system in Canada and Eire seem to work very well in your opinion. What it has to do with the Thai political system stumps me though. This is a system where as Paul Chambers observed

The 2008 Senate ascended to office as a compromise: half appointed and half elected. The democratic part of the body was but a token granted to pro-civil rights groups. The appointed portion was meant to maintain some degree of parliamentary stability and influence by entrenched bureaucratic actors.

Ultimately, it appears that the influence by the military over Thailand’s pre-2000 Senates has indirectly returned (though on a lesser scale) in the post-2008 Upper House. Where Thaksin once lorded over the chamber, in 2009 it was dominated by anti-Thaksin traditionalists.

Or indeed as Appointed Senator, Somchai Sawaengkarn said;

Appointed senator Somchai Sawaengkarn said the voting patterns of appointed senators show that 60 of the 73 appointed senators are in the anti-government camp.

The remaining 13 are believed to be aligned with the government, Mr Somchai said.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/121241/the-reason-why-the-thai-establishment-likes-appointed-senators/

Why anyone believes that this time, appointed Senators will be anything other than partisan, escapes me. The rest of your post I broadly agree with.

[Chang_paarp]

The upper house must be appointed like the House of Lords in the UK. And candidates must be screened so that only honest and good people stand for election!

Being from America, I respectfully disagree. The upper house members should all be elected. Two Senators from each Province, elected by the people of that Province only.

The lower house members should also all be elected, based on population in each Provence.

Also, I would like to see the Executive and Legislative branches become completely separate. The Prime Ministers' cabinet members, and the Prime Minister, should have no say in what the Legislative branch does or how it does it. The Legislative branch should be elected by the people of each Province, with no interference from the PM or cabinet members.

What you are proposing is a presidential system, what thailand has is a parliamentary democracy. The differences are there, the parliamentary system seems to work in places like Australia, the UK and a number of other countries around the world. Some countries have a Senate like the US as a house of review, it is the UK retains the appointed upper house.

For either system to work there needs to be a certain separation of the political and the burochratic sectors. A certain amount of social maturity is required, unfortunately Thailand has not demonstrated this prerequisite to a functioning democracy. This was discussed in a piece the BP last week.

[Frank James]

If a 300 baht a day minimum wage is "unsustainable", this country is in worse shape than we know.

[Thai at Heart]

If a 300 baht a day minimum wage is "unsustainable", this country is in worse shape than we know.

Who knows to what lengths the country is going to go in order to smash Thaksin's legacy.

[Chris Lawrence]

'MPs: Their term should be limited to two consecutive four-year terms. Their parents, children, and spouses should be banned from running in the same election term. People convicted of election fraud, drug offences, and lese majeste should be banned from running in an election.'

No junkies, but rapists, murders, human traffickers can run for parliament? strange list for not being able to run as MP? Why wouldn't it just be anyone convicted of an offense/crime? But that might go against some of the MP fisherman and pineapple factory owners?

How are they going to sanitize a fair voting system so the democrats can win no matter what?

[Baerboxer]

The appointed senators in Canada and Eire seem to do their jobs very well.

What I find very strange here is this party list system - and to suggest reducing the number of elected constituency MP's seems a retrograde step.

All parties must me made to produce proper manifestos containing details of their proposed policies should they win. Not vague comments or promises of riches that can't be sustained or don't make sense. The Dutch have a good process on this.

Maybe something is lost in the translation and what he meant by "good" was crooks, and those who were corrupt once before should not be allowed to serve again. And those found to be corrupt in office should be dismissed and barred?

One thing for sure the EC cannot and must not decide this on their own. They just don't have that capability.

I'm sure the appointed senator system in Canada and Eire seem to work very well in your opinion. What it has to do with the Thai political system stumps me though. This is a system where as Paul Chambers observed

The 2008 Senate ascended to office as a compromise: half appointed and half elected. The democratic part of the body was but a token granted to pro-civil rights groups. The appointed portion was meant to maintain some degree of parliamentary stability and influence by entrenched bureaucratic actors.

Ultimately, it appears that the influence by the military over Thailand’s pre-2000 Senates has indirectly returned (though on a lesser scale) in the post-2008 Upper House. Where Thaksin once lorded over the chamber, in 2009 it was dominated by anti-Thaksin traditionalists.

Or indeed as Appointed Senator, Somchai Sawaengkarn said;

Appointed senator Somchai Sawaengkarn said the voting patterns of appointed senators show that 60 of the 73 appointed senators are in the anti-government camp.

The remaining 13 are believed to be aligned with the government, Mr Somchai said.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/121241/the-reason-why-the-thai-establishment-likes-appointed-senators/

Why anyone believes that this time, appointed Senators will be anything other than partisan, escapes me. The rest of your post I broadly agree with.

Appointed senators are not partisan in countries that have appointed upper houses - otherwise they wouldn't work. Is having a upper house packed with your family, in-laws, spouses and offspring likely to produce a less partisan upper house? The appointments process, like the electoral process needs reforming here.

Thailand suffers from corrupt politicians - and they will always try to find ways to load any system in their favor. Until that changes, and all the crooks and self enriching parasites are driven out they will never have democracy regardless of what political style they follow.

There needs to be massive changes not a few process reforms. That simply transfers power to and back from one group to another from among the elites, including the Shiniwattra family and their allies.

Why anyone believes an elected house packed with relatives, friends and cronies would be anything other than partisan escapes me too. They would have to be just as loyal to their patron who "sponsored" their winning their senate seat.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Baerboxer

[zyphodb]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The upper house must be appointed like the House of Lords in the UK. And candidates must be screened so that only honest and good people stand for election!

Ha ha you've just eliminated every politician in Thailand....

[emilymat]

I suppose I have no right to feel like this as a farang, but I despair with these latest 'proposals'. To suggest that a politician cannot 'promise' something that has a cost is ludicrous. I note they use the minimum wage as an example, something that could influence millions of low paid workers, particularly in the north.

Frankly, I've given up on trying to understand the mind-set of this 'democracy'. I'm sure that 'elections' and the like are just there to satisfy other countries that the whole government thing is democratic thus ensuring trade and financial deals can continue.

There is one major subject which is taboo and we all know what that is. However, I confidently predict that in 15 months or so there will be an election under some re-arranged system and the General will emerge as Prime Minister. Look no further than Egypt for a template. The only difference is that I would not expect Thailand to implement the post election mass death sentencing and imprisonment of journalists.

Not sure if this will get through the Mods but I just think it is taboo subject no 2. If I'm wrong I will be delighted.

[fab4]

Appointed senators are not partisan in countries that have appointed upper houses - otherwise they wouldn't work. Is having a upper house packed with your family, in-laws, spouses and offspring likely to produce a less partisan upper house? The appointments process, like the electoral process needs reforming here.

Thailand suffers from corrupt politicians - and they will always try to find ways to load any system in their favor. Until that changes, and all the crooks and self enriching parasites are driven out they will never have democracy regardless of what political style they follow.

There needs to be massive changes not a few process reforms. That simply transfers power to and back from one group to another from among the elites, including the Shiniwattra family and their allies.

Why anyone believes an elected house packed with relatives, friends and cronies would be anything other than partisan escapes me too. They would have to be just as loyal to their patron who "sponsored" their winning their senate seat.

It rather depends on who does the appointing doesn't it. At least with an elected senate there is some semblance of the electorate being involved, but then, when has all this talk about reform ever been about the electorate?

[siampolee]

fab4 post # 22.

It rather depends on who does the appointing doesn't it. At least with an elected senate there is some semblance of the electorate being involved, but then, when has all this talk about reform ever been about the electorate?

For once I agree with you fab4,

Sadly there is no real awareness or knowledge of democracy here in Thailand unlike there is in the west where in general the concept and pricipiles of democracy are jealously guarded and protected by the population at large..

The system western style of course needs some alteration to fit the Asian body as one size does not fit all, howebver in my view the upper chamber must be an elected body and the party list must be abolished, then possibly we just might see a tiny step forward in the direction of democracy.