New immigration rules planned long before coup

[gamini]

Sometime back (before the coup) I posted an article saying that I had heard from a very reliable source that there was going to be a completet overhaul of immigration procedure so that Thailand could integrate with the rest of the upcoming South East Asia Community. However a moderator replied that I should not post such information until it had been confirmed!!

The fact is that Thailand must change its immigration policy in line with other SEA member countries which might adopt a single visa policy valid in all member countries like the European Schenligan (spelling?)one. It can not expect them to adopt Thailands uninque "visa" runs. It also has to catch up with most other countries which allow only six months stay in a calender year. It is possible that Thailand is one of the only countries in the world where you can stay almost indefinitely without paying tax. IIt has a very generous lost cost retiree policy. As well as a "mariage to a Thai" one. The latter is not readily available in other countries,

[Pomthai]

90 day upon entry visa free entry? No more 90 day reports? No more new photos of my house, wife, kids, dog, cat, car and wardrobe to prove I've been married for 9 years each year.

That'll be the day...

I hope your right though.

[ubonjoe]

None of the current changes has anything to do with the AEC.

There are is no open borders or common visa clause in the AEC agreement. There will be no changes to Thailand's immigration policy or rules for it.

[bkkjames]

I believe this whole thing is related to Asean Community thing next year. Although we see thread after thread of farangs posting on here about their concerns and experiences, I am quite sure this is not aimed squarely at them - all foreigners including neighbors and nearby countries like Philippines, Vietnam and the like are most likely experiencing the same enforcement.

[Deacon Bell]

The AEC is NOT based on the EU with reference for freedom of movement and labour.

ASEAN nationals will NOT be able to travel freely within the region, they will need the same visas they need now.

They will not be able to work freely if in another ASEAN nation, they will need the same work permits they need now.

The AEC is NOT the EU.

[bkkjames]

None of the current changes has anything to do with the AEC.

There are is no open borders or common visa clause in the AEC a agreement. There will be no changes to Thailand's immigration policy or rules for it.

Perhaps not directly - but indirectly I suspect they are clearing out the system - or at the very least sending a strong message to those planning to come here to get a proper visa (if required) for work, play and other.

[pinkpanther99]

The way I understand it, these 'new' rules aren't actually all that new, it's just that now they are actively being enforced.

It has always been the case that if an Immigration official thinks an individual is abusing the tourist visa system then the official can deny them entry.

This crackdown is just as much a crackdown to ensure that Immigration officials are now doing their jobs properly as it is on foreigners staying here illegally.

[firestar]

Thailand is not "unique" in Visa runs. All developing countries in SEA: the Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. allow it. Malaysia goes one step further and actually encourages tourists to stay long term with their Malaysia My Second Home program. All except Myanmar.

Edited July 17, 2014 by firestar

[Soutpeel]

Thailand is not "unique" in Visa runs. All developing countries in SEA: the Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. allow it. Malaysia goes one step further and actually encourages tourists to stay long term with their Malaysia My Second Home program. All except Myanmar.

but lets face it, if Thailand adopted a Malaysia type "my second home" program, you would still be hearing howls of protests from TV posters saying they cant afford it or dont qualify for the program

[gchurch259]

In response to gamini's post.

I pay 7% VAT on everything I spend in LOS, and my wife really likes spend. so 3M THB a year is around 210,000.00 THB and then there is the wonderful VAT on the car I bought her, A Civic, I could have bought two for the same price in the USA.

Guess we all pay taxes here. Actually evert counrty should do away with income tax and use VAT/Sales. Taxes should be Residence Based and Not Citizenship Based.

Edited July 17, 2014 by gchurch259

[MrWorldwide]

Thailand is not "unique" in Visa runs. All developing countries in SEA: the Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. allow it. Malaysia goes one step further and actually encourages tourists to stay long term with their Malaysia My Second Home program. All except Myanmar.

but lets face it, if Thailand adopted a Malaysia type "my second home" program, you would still be hearing howls of protests from TV posters saying they cant afford it or dont qualify for the program

Its worth noting that the MM2H program isn't warmly greeted by all the expats who call Malaysia home. I got an earbashing from a woman on a flight from BKK to KL a couple of years back about the fact that she still has to take her Malaysian-born daughter out of the country every 90 days for a shopping excursion in Bangkok - didn't seem overly tough to me, but her impression of the Malaysian authorities wasn't as rosy as that held by many here. soihok also has a few words of warning for anyone considering Malaysia as an option, but its always going to be swings and roundabouts with any of Thailand's neighbours - I like the country as a tourist but it quickly became apparent that living there was going to mean buying a car and the prices made my hair stand on end coming from Oz.

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic and inflammatory post have been removed along with replies to them.

[Emster23]

In response to gamini's post.

I pay 7% VAT on everything I spend in LOS, and my wife really likes spend. so 3M THB a year is around 210,000.00 THB and then there is the wonderful VAT on the car I bought her, A Civic, I could have bought two for the same price in the USA.

Guess we all pay taxes here. Actually evert counrty should do away with income tax and use VAT/Sales. Taxes should be Residence Based and Not Citizenship Based.

It is common knowledge that sales taxes are some of the most regressive taxes of all. Poor spend 100% of income, so effective rate is 7%. Do rich spend all of theirs? No, so they are taxed far less than 7% of their income. How about some real estate taxes? I never thought I would favor that, but it does act as incentive to use property productively rather than just sitting on it.

[firestar]

Thailand is not "unique" in Visa runs. All developing countries in SEA: the Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. allow it. Malaysia goes one step further and actually encourages tourists to stay long term with their Malaysia My Second Home program. All except Myanmar.

but lets face it, if Thailand adopted a Malaysia type "my second home" program, you would still be hearing howls of protests from TV posters saying they cant afford it or dont qualify for the program

Most of the the criticism I think comes from the fact there is no visa options for under 50's or over 50's who want to spend the winter months abroad. frequent travelers. etc.

Not my case but they are being told "get a proper visa". Which one? Tourist visa IS the proper visa.

As we've seen in the multiple thread it is absolute confusion. If they want proper visas they have to start by making proper rules, followed by proper communication then proper implementation.

vague statements in The Nation and TV member reports as only guideline is shambolic.

______________________

Edited July 17, 2014 by firestar

[Soutpeel]

Most of the the criticism I think comes from the fact there is no visa options for under 50's or over 50's who want to spend the winter months abroad. frequent travelers. etc.

Oh this old comment... yes there are options for under 50's research TV threads this has been done to death already, so please stop stating something which is not "fact"

[firestar]

Most of the the criticism I think comes from the fact there is no visa options for under 50's or over 50's who want to spend the winter months abroad. frequent travelers. etc.

Oh this old comment... yes there are options for under 50's research TV threads this has been done to death already, so please stop stating something which is not "fact"

And what are they then, name them please? It isn't non-Immigrant B, F, O, IM.... or ED as you suggested in another thread.

In actual fact ED for someone who isn't coming to study ED would not only be the WRONG visa but unlawful.

I'll quote you from that other thread :

"If he dont want to go down the marriage road, other than what has been stated in my first post, he dont have too many other options left does he ?"

[Soutpeel]

In actual fact ED for someone who isn't coming to study ED would not only be the WRONG visa but unlawful.

If the person complies with the requirements of his visa ie study the required number of hours per week... not unlawful or wrong is it ?

Whats the current requirement 4 hours a week ?

Therefore someone can study on an Ed visa and still be a tourist....

other options

THB 10 million investment visa

500 k TE card

so please dont say their are no options "fact"

yes there are, its just a question of whether someone wants to do it or not, just, because someone doesnt want to do something doesnt mean they are excluded from something.

[firestar]

If the person complies with the requirements of his visa ie study the required number of hours per week... not unlawful or wrong is it ?

Whats the current requirement 4 hours a week ?

Therefore someone can study on an Ed visa and still be a tourist....

other options

THB 10 million investment visa

500 k TE card

so please dont say their are no options "fact"

yes there are, its just a question of whether someone wants to do it or not, just, because someone doesnt want to do something doesnt mean they are excluded from something.

You are seriously suggesting someone like my Aunt who traveled SE Asia while making Thailand her hub invest 10 million or get a 500 k TE card?

This is the irony of many comments, we only want "genuine" tourists yet the only options fit those living here So I'll reiterate my question for the hundred of scenarios brought up, what is the proper visa if not tourist?

[tompix321]

Thailand is not a country where you can stay without paying tax. Even if we just spend our money we pay stuff like VAT, energy, fuel, tobacco and alcohol taxes. Even in a mom and pop store you indirectly pay VAT because they pay it at the wholesale, and pass it on to you. We don't pay income tax, and neither should we. We don't work. This is not different from say Denmark (with the highest taxes in the world). If you just stay there for 90 days and don't work you only pay the same kind of taxes. They just happen to be a bit higher.

In Denmark i don't think you have to extend your tourist visa after 60 days though. It should be good for 90 days if I'm not mistaken. (I'm not Danish.)

[Soutpeel]

If the person complies with the requirements of his visa ie study the required number of hours per week... not unlawful or wrong is it ?

Whats the current requirement 4 hours a week ?

Therefore someone can study on an Ed visa and still be a tourist....

other options

THB 10 million investment visa

500 k TE card

so please dont say their are no options "fact"

yes there are, its just a question of whether someone wants to do it or not, just, because someone doesnt want to do something doesnt mean they are excluded from something.

You are seriously suggesting someone like my Aunt who traveled SE Asia while making Thailand her hub invest 10 million or get a 500 k TE card?

This is the irony of many comments, we only want "genuine" tourists yet the only options fit those living here So I'll reiterate my question for the hundred of scenarios brought up, what is the proper visa if not tourist?

A legitimate tourist has no problems getting tourist visa's to cover their stays in Thailand

[firestar]

A legitimate tourist has no problems getting tourist visa's to cover their stays in Thailand

Many legitimate tourists have multiple tourist stamps and stay in rented condos. you side stepped the question.

But fair enough. so far from your previous replies I got this : if you're a genuine tourist who takes winter breaks hoping around asia you'll have to take your chances, if you are frequent traveler you'll have to take your chances. If however you are here working illegally get an ED visa and it's business as usual.

K thanks for clarifying the situation.

_________

Edited July 17, 2014 by firestar

[tompix321]

A legitimate tourist has no problems getting tourist visa's to cover their stays in Thailand

Then you must have a time-based definition of the term, just like Thai Immigration. A bureaucrat's definition. That's not a very open-minded or modern definition and it's certainly not the average dictionary definition. Neither does it benefit the country's economy. I've been a tourist for over five years in 8 countries. At least according to my English dictionary. It makes perfect sense that a government has some time limits, but I still tour and see sights after their arbitrary deadline (in another country or with a new stamp or visa).

[OJAS]

The AEC is NOT based on the EU with reference for freedom of movement and labour.

ASEAN nationals will NOT be able to travel freely within the region, they will need the same visas they need now.

They will not be able to work freely if in another ASEAN nation, they will need the same work permits they need now.

The AEC is NOT the EU.

And even if it was, Thailand could easily opt out of any Schengen-type agreement just like the UK has done.

[gamini]

None of the current changes has anything to do with the AEC.

There are is no open borders or common visa clause in the AEC agreement. There will be no changes to Thailand's immigration policy or rules for it.

The information that I posted was from a very senior immigration official who is a friend of a high ranking military close friend of mine. So from whom did you get the informaation that there will no changes to Thailands Immigration policy?

[Suradit69]

The way I understand it, these 'new' rules aren't actually all that new, it's just that now they are actively being enforced.

It has always been the case that if an Immigration official thinks an individual is abusing the tourist visa system then the official can deny them entry.

This crackdown is just as much a crackdown to ensure that Immigration officials are now doing their jobs properly as it is on foreigners staying here illegally.

"The way I understand it, these 'new' rules aren't actually all that new, it's just that now they are actively being enforced."

Exactly. Aside from the proposed schedule of black listing periods, everything else is just tightening up the enforcement of existing rules.

On a visa application, at least one version I have seen, where you sign you are certifying that if you are seeking a tourist visa ...

Attention for Tourist and Transit Visa Applicants :

I hereby declare that the purpose of my visit to Thailand is for pleasure or transit

only and that in no case shall I engage myself in any profession or occupation

while in the country.

Basically when you apply for a tourist visa, you are saying you really are a tourist as anyone would commonly define a tourist. And I'm sure the terms of the visa exempt agreement are equally explicit. And the person empowered to interpret all this on the spot is the immigration officer at your port of entry. Nothing really new there, although for a long time it was not strictly enforced and that situation was exploited.

So to say these things have come about only recently because of ASEAN is simply not true.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Suradit69

[Time Traveller]

In actual fact ED for someone who isn't coming to study ED would not only be the WRONG visa but unlawful.

If the person complies with the requirements of his visa ie study the required number of hours per week... not unlawful or wrong is it ?

Isn't that what the people on Tourist visas were doing before Immigration assumed everyone with back to back tourist visas was not a real tourist?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Time Traveller

[firestar]

"The way I understand it, these 'new' rules aren't actually all that new, it's just that now they are actively being enforced."

So what are these rules?

The only rules are the conditions of your visa. If you have a single entry you have a permission to stay up to 90, need a re-entry permit to leave..etc.

You could argue legislation regulating further is needed, but with that you need proper guidelines, proper communication and proper implementation.

Not somebody at one entry point reporting on TV why he may and may not have been rejected.

[skills32]

No one has noticed that if you are refused entry to any Asian country the you won't be admitted to any country until you have returned to the country of your passport. A problem for a lot of people who have been caught up in the multiple visa crack down.

[Chiangmai1]

No one has noticed that if you are refused entry to any Asian country the you won't be admitted to any country until you have returned to the country of your passport. A problem for a lot of people who have been caught up in the multiple visa crack down.

Any source for this?

Can someone affirm or refute this statement?

[beechguy]

If the person complies with the requirements of his visa ie study the required number of hours per week... not unlawful or wrong is it ?

Whats the current requirement 4 hours a week ?

Therefore someone can study on an Ed visa and still be a tourist....

other options

THB 10 million investment visa

500 k TE card

so please dont say their are no options "fact"

yes there are, its just a question of whether someone wants to do it or not, just, because someone doesnt want to do something doesnt mean they are excluded from something.

You are seriously suggesting someone like my Aunt who traveled SE Asia while making Thailand her hub invest 10 million or get a 500 k TE card?

This is the irony of many comments, we only want "genuine" tourists yet the only options fit those living here So I'll reiterate my question for the hundred of scenarios brought up, what is the proper visa if not tourist?

I didn't realize Thailand owed your Aunt a place to stay. As to the reference of the other visas, those are valid options, not Thailand's problem if people don't want to comply with the requirements.