Expected salary for A level Math and Physics teacher

[jamhar]

I'm still fairly new to Thailand. Any one have intel on what the going rate for an A level math and physics teacher for an international or Thai Private school in the Chaing Mai and surrounding areas? and yes I am a native English speaker.

[squarethecircle]

Depends on degree, experience, further qualifications, negotiating skills.

Edited July 18, 2014 by squarethecircle

[zeichen]

private schools in CM pay same regardless of subject. Varee has an International section focusing on A levels.

Prem is IB if I remember right and usually pays more if you are not a local hire.

My recommendation if you have a degree in education, are certified and have home country experience. Go to search associates. They are recruiters for international schools.

Some of the higher paid schools in Thailand will pay more than 100k a month. CM you will most likely be around 40-80k a month depending.

[cgphuket]

It seems that Cm pays much less than Bangkok. Either because cost of living in cheaper there, or there are so many "retirees" that they think people will take hobby jobs and really dot need the money. When you look at teacher websites, CM offers around 22-28k for jobs that pay 32-38 in BKK.

[squarethecircle]

China pays 2-3,000 USD/month for non-certified but still qualified (ie: properly degreed) teachers for these specialty subjects in their fake international schools (ie: for the rich kids heading abroad), more like 4,000-5,000 USD for those qualified (ie: home certification and experience) to teach at the real international schools (ie: fully certified schools for kids of expats). Seems like you'd take a deduction for lower cost of living and living in a better place (easily available clean food etc.). No clue about Chiang Mai area but that's what the surrounding market looks like.

[zeichen]

Don't forget that China taxes at 20-25% on those salaries. The qualifications for those jobs paying above 3,000 USD (20-30,000rmb a month) usually require a masters degree, teacher's license in home country, and experience.

As for lower cost of living in CM, that is funny. The cost of living has risen over 40% over the past decade but salaries for teaching positions have actually lowered.

The real problem with CM salaries has nothing to do with those willing to work for low wages but has more to do with the economic make up the residents. There are a lot of families in the lower middle class that can afford a good school but cannot afford the top international. So they look for places like Varee, Montfort, Dara, Prince Royal, etc that cost about 100k baht a year. The number of upper middle class is a lot lower and they can afford the lower to mid ranked international schools. Those that can afford the high rates of the major international schools either send their kids abroad or to BKK as many of them have business their also. There just isn't the market for the higher schools charging 400,000-600,000 baht a year.

The other problem with the better paid schools in CM is the management have some real issues. If a school doesn't have any foreign teachers on the upper management expect problems.

[squarethecircle]

"Don't forget that China taxes at 20-25% on those salaries."

Well I just looked up China tax rates and not quite, it taxes 25% for any money between 9,000 and 35,000 but there is a relatively simple formula whereby the actual final tax percentage is lower. For 20,000 RMB income the tax comes to 2,035 RMB or 10.2%. For 30,000 RMB income the tax comes to 5,295 RMB or around 17.7%:

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2014/03/19/2013-individual-income-tax-calculations-for-china-expats.html

"As for lower cost of living in CM, that is funny. The cost of living has risen over 40% over the past decade but salaries for teaching positions have actually lowered."

Maybe so but to find good clean local food in a city like Chengdu you're looking at the equivalent of say 150-200 Baht for a meal, plus beverages (better bring some imported beer along which admittedly is cheaper and better in China than Thailand), 300-400 baht plus drinks for western food. No clue where you're going to find this in Chiang Mai. Rent is maybe 10-20% cheaper as well, point is it's justifiable paying less in a city like CM but there is that option of hopping up to China for a bit higher pay (albeit much s*******r living conditions).

[jamhar]

Outstanding discussion!

For a newbie like me, information like this is PRICELESS!

Very much appreciated

jamhar

[squarethecircle]

You never gave any more information about your background, etc., then someone could probably give a better guideline about what you should deserve.

[mrtoad]

OP , do you have British QTS?

If so expect to be earning 120k plus

[zeichen]

To get technical about China taxes, there are varying tax brackets but for salaries over 20k RMB it is 25%. You get a deductible of 2,800 rimb and the rest is taxed at 25%. If your salary is 20,000 rmb your take home is around 17,200. You are also suppose to pay into social welfare but some schools avoid this.

I don't use expat calculators. I look at paystubs from the various schools that I have worked at and the actual government regulations.

As for cost of living rare few schools in Thailand offer free housing but every position in China does.

China is only about 10-15% higher for cost of living, since salaries on average are about 30-50% higher in China than CM, China is definitely better for working.

The quality of life issues are better in CM overall especially air compared to Beijing.

Mr. Toad "OP , do you have British QTS?

If so expect to be earning 120k plus"

HAHAHA. You do realize he asked for Chiang Mai. There is only one school that pays that well and they have much higher requirements than just a qts and they also teach the IB curriculum not A level.

[squarethecircle]

"You get a deductible of 2,800 rimb and the rest is taxed at 25%. If your salary is 20,000 rmb your take home is around 17,200. You are also suppose to pay into social welfare but some schools avoid this.

I don't use expat calculators. I look at paystubs from the various schools that I have worked at and the actual government regulations."

Well what you say contradicts the information available online such as posted above. Also according to your scheme (which again contradicts recently updated info online) if your salary is 20000 rmb your take-home would be 20000-(20000-2800)*0.25=15700, not 17200. Not a math teacher are you? Also if you don't believe me about how overpriced Ch. is for most things check Numbeo, for one it says Chengdu (relatively inexpensive compared to the east coast) is 44% more expensive than CM. But this is petty detail and irrelevant to the original post.

Edited July 19, 2014 by squarethecircle

[mrtoad]

Mr. Toad "OP , do you have British QTS?

If so expect to be earning 120k plus"

HAHAHA. You do realize he asked for Chiang Mai. There is only one school that pays that well and they have much higher requirements than just a qts and they also teach the IB curriculum not A level.

I am familiar with both, but if The OP is a qualified British Curriculum subject teacher, then he is not going to work for a TEFLER salary of 30k a month as suggested by some. He might need to look at other options outside of CM, as there are certainly schools in Thailand that will pay him an appropriate salary. The OP also may well meet the criteria for employment at Prem School, as none of us are privy to his qualifications or work history.

[naboo]

Chiang Mai International schools - 50,000B to 70,000B except Prem which will pay 100,000B for local hire or 120,000B for overseas hire.

International schools in the rest of Thailand will pay 90,000B up depending on school and your experience.

[isawasnake]

There are no negotiating skills required for Thai teaching jobs unless the job ad displays a range, which is rare. The vast majority of jobs are just take it if you get it, or don't. There isn't the same managerial flexibility here that we have in the west. Orders come from the top down, are unalterable, and "the top" are never around to even ask questions. Quite a nice arrangement if you are on the top really. Just get negotiating salary out of your head. Also, expect to be vastly underpaid.... think "the guy who just immigrated illegally into California from Mexico will be making more than me," and you will get some idea. In short, get ready to be bent over, and to perpetuate the already amazingly stable low salaries for foreigners in Thailand. It can't be said enough, if we don't accept these salaries, they simply have to go up. Then in comes the non-degree holding teachers I suppose.

Edited July 20, 2014 by isawasnake

[jamhar]

Again the information is awesome. I was going to reply regarding my personal detail but that would choke off the discussion. But I will say that i am an American.

PS thanks for the headsup regarding China. I recall looking into China the last time I was looking but found a place in TL that suited me. But the present (and potentially the future) relationship between China, and the US will keep me out of there.

Thanks for all the great intel.

Please don't stop if you have something to contribute.

[squarethecircle]

"Also, expect to be vastly underpaid.... think "the guy who just immigrated illegally into California from Mexico will be making more than me," and you will get some idea. In short, get ready to be bent over, and to perpetuate the already amazingly stable low salaries for foreigners in Thailand. It can't be said enough, if we don't accept these salaries, they simply have to go up. Then in comes the non-degree holding teachers I suppose."

Not sure about the negotiation things, when I went through this I was offered the standard 30k minimum wage at gov't operation in Nakhon Nowhere and was asked if that was okay. I said "sure" as I was keen to get started, but in retrospect I bet I could've gotten it up at least a few thousand.

"PS thanks for the headsup regarding China. I recall looking into China the last time I was looking but found a place in TL that suited me. But the present (and potentially the future) relationship between China, and the US will keep me out of there."

I wouldn't worry about that, the only difference it will make is we pay more for visas. People generally responded well when I said I was from US.

[Phatcharanan]

Again the information is awesome. I was going to reply regarding my personal detail but that would choke off the discussion.

Why would it?

[jamhar]

Again the information is awesome. I was going to reply regarding my personal detail but that would choke off the discussion.

Why would it?

It would narrow the discussion to my particulars.

Right now its free flowing and I'm learning from it

[zeichen]

"I am familiar with both, but if The OP is a qualified British Curriculum subject teacher, then he is not going to work for a TEFLER salary of 30k a month as suggested by some."

You do realize that in CM there are a tonne of certified teachers working in EP programs/EFL programs earning 30-40,000 baht a month. I can think of at least 10 different teachers that I have worked with. There are very few positions at international schools here. I know of people at Prem and CMIS with PhD's teaching high school. So how can someone with just a BEd. compete with that?

[farang000999]

If teacher salary is 90k a month, working around 9 month a year? = 90x12 = 1,080,000 baht a year.

if there are 15 (?) students per teacher paying 400,000 baht a year that is 6,000,000 baht a year in tuition.

Seems like a pretty big overlap many of these schools are claiming to be non profit. where does all that dosh go?

[zeichen]

Farang it is clear that you have never owned a business. Trust me that there are so many other costs besides the person teaching. Regardless schools do make good money if they are run well.

You do realize that non-profit doesn't mean you don't make money. Many non profits generate income, the difference is that they are limited to the amount of profits.

[farang000999]

You do realize that non-profit doesn't mean you don't make money. Many non profits generate income, the difference is that they are limited to the amount of profits.

lol

i don't know what the rules are in thailand or what non profit means in thailand but for modern societies it means that there are no profits (passive income) generated, ie, you pay the administrators and all the other employees salaries and the fees required to run the school and everything left over goes back into the school...

[farang000999]

i mean, it is obvious that he really nice schools with the expansive campuses like patana are putting the money back in... some of these mid tier schools... i would say it is quite questionable...

[jamhar]

You guys must be in another Thailand.

All the postings i'm seeing are for 30-50k for non certified teachers of A level Mathematics

and 40-60K for native English certified teachers.

If you've seen a posting for 90k, I'd like to see it.

[inzman]

Don't forget, private schools are subsidized by the govt.