Russian Media Goes Far Out to Explain Malaysia Airlines Disaster

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[fxe1200]

 

 

Putin's Russia is a good indication of what would happen to Thailand if Thaksin won. Something for all the red expats to consider.

Is Putin a bad guy?
Why do you say so?
There are other opinions too >>> http://time.com/3005439/putin-approval-ratings/

 

Easy to believe if you understand the average Russian isn't being told the whole truth in the news. This article proves it. Allow the media to freely report everything and I'd bet those ratings would change drastically.

 

 

Neither is the rest of the world being informed of the truth in the news or some place else. See the MH 370 scandal. To remind you here are some notes: part of the cargo still secret, withholding of the U.S. radar data collected in the Indian ocean, deleting information about the closure of DG for three days (8. - 10.3.), publishing Inmarsat data two months late, they could be edited in this time, and more...

 

The Russian press is not much different, of what we can read in the "free West", only the viewpoint differs.
 

Edited July 20, 2014 by fxe1200

[lovetotravel]

 

 

 

Putin's Russia is a good indication of what would happen to Thailand if Thaksin won. Something for all the red expats to consider.

Is Putin a bad guy?
Why do you say so?
There are other opinions too >>> http://time.com/3005439/putin-approval-ratings/

 

Easy to believe if you understand the average Russian isn't being told the whole truth in the news. This article proves it. Allow the media to freely report everything and I'd bet those ratings would change drastically.

 

 

Neither is the rest of the world being informed of the truth in the news or some place else. See the MH 370 scandal. To remind you here are some notes: part of the cargo still secret, withholding of the U.S. radar data collected in the Indian ocean, deleting information about the closure of DG for three days (8.10.3.), publishing Inmarsat data two months late, they could be edited in this time, and more...

 

The Russian press is not much different, of what we can read in the "free West", only the viewpoint differs.
 

 

 

Impossible to compare Russian media to Western media.  Russian media is 100% owned and controlled by the government.  A lot of the Western media is owned by independent business people trying to make a buck.  And report the news as they see it...or how they think it will sell.  But it's an independent, and varied, news source, as opposed to the Russian media.  Who are anything but independent.

 

If you want to discuss info as you mention in your post, please link to credible news agencies.  We'd love to see the links.

[fxe1200]

 

 

 

Easy to believe if you understand the average Russian isn't being told the whole truth in the news. This article proves it. Allow the media to freely report everything and I'd bet those ratings would change drastically.

 

 

Neither is the rest of the world being informed of the truth in the news or some place else. See the MH 370 scandal. To remind you here are some notes: part of the cargo still secret, withholding of the U.S. radar data collected in the Indian ocean, deleting information about the closure of DG for three days (8.10.3.), publishing Inmarsat data two months late, they could be edited in this time, and more...

 

The Russian press is not much different, of what we can read in the "free West", only the viewpoint differs.
 

 

 

Impossible to compare Russian media to Western media.  Russian media is 100% owned and controlled by the government.  A lot of the Western media is owned by independent business people trying to make a buck.  And report the news as they see it...or how they think it will sell.  But it's an independent, and varied, news source, as opposed to the Russian media.  Who are anything but independent.

 

If you want to discuss info as you mention in your post, please link to credible news agencies.  We'd love to see the links.

 

I do not want to discuss this, as there is no reason. The "Western media" is publishing, what they are being served by politicians and agencies, the truth is being withheld, the times of investigative journalism is over for a long time already.

 

[Gonki]

The journalists never explained why the Ukrainians might have thought Putin was in the neighborhood, since he was attending a well-publicized summit in Brazil on the day of the crash.

 

That's because Ukrainian troops are too busy to watch the news.

[Gonki]

I don't buy for a second those "Russian media is 100% government" jabs. It's nonsense. I read half a dozen "independently owned" news sites. There is a lot of information in Russian that is different from the TV1 rubbish. I would suggest to the "100%" sayers to learn the Russian language and start reading online for own enlightenment.

[khunken]

There is far too much finger-pointing and propaganda involved with this. For example someone said the missile launcher (which was stolen from the Ukraine military) was moved into Russia. Is this proven or just propaganda?

 

As for the media - yes, Russia's is not free - but neither is the Western media free of bias. Far too much of it is owned by Western oligarchs like Murdoch and he is not known for telling the truth.

 

All sides have dirty fingers in this appalling disaster. The more two-and-fro accusations there are, the less likely that those responsible will be brought to justice.

Edited July 20, 2014 by khunken

[umbanda]

 

Putin has been angling for a fight for a long time, because he has the money to do so from Russia's new found wealth from oil and gas.  He has been sending 60 year old Russian planes (bears) off the coast of Britain testing Britain air defense systems since he got into power,   He has been told one day there may be a genuine accident, pitting 60 year old technology against one of the most up to date fighters in the word., Maybe this attitude has gone against him, Calling wolf all the time, this time maybe no one believes him. maybe it was an accident. But his attitude seems to point in the directions of the old Russian Empire.

 

Let's face it he's a power junkie, angled his way from old school KGB to the presidency and he's kept it ever since no matter what he has to do to his people to accomplish it.

And at the very least that involves lying to them.

 

And you can guarantee he's made himself a very rich man in the process.

 

 

Sounds like the history of the Bush family....just changing KGB for FBI/CIA

 

[lovetotravel]

Gotta love this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Russia

 

The organisation Reporters Without Borders compiles and publishes an annual ranking of countries based upon the organisation's assessment of their press freedom records. In 2013 Russia was ranked 148th out of 179 countries, six places below the previous year, mainly due to the return of Vladimir Putin.^[3]Freedom House compiles a similar ranking and placed Russia at number 176 out of 197 countries for press freedom for 2013, putting it level with Sudan and Ethiopia.^[4]The Committee to Protect Journalists states that Russia was the country with the 10th largest number of journalists killed since 1992, 26 of them since the beginning of 2000, including four from Novaya Gazeta.^[5] It also placed Russia at number 9 in the world for numbers of journalists killed with complete impunity.^[6]

 

 

[lovetotravel]

 

 

Putin has been angling for a fight for a long time, because he has the money to do so from Russia's new found wealth from oil and gas.  He has been sending 60 year old Russian planes (bears) off the coast of Britain testing Britain air defense systems since he got into power,   He has been told one day there may be a genuine accident, pitting 60 year old technology against one of the most up to date fighters in the word., Maybe this attitude has gone against him, Calling wolf all the time, this time maybe no one believes him. maybe it was an accident. But his attitude seems to point in the directions of the old Russian Empire.

 

Let's face it he's a power junkie, angled his way from old school KGB to the presidency and he's kept it ever since no matter what he has to do to his people to accomplish it.

And at the very least that involves lying to them.

 

And you can guarantee he's made himself a very rich man in the process.

 

 

Sounds like the history of the Bush family....just changing KGB for FBI/CIA

 

 

The Bush family was rich before they got into politics.

[shaurene]

Another theory: The Ukrainians intentionally shot down the jet at close range as a planned provocation. Or maybe there wasnt a crash at all, and the bodies were those of passengers from Malaysia Air flight M370, which disappeared in March.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

The Netherlands, Malaysia and Australia lost the most citizens on this avoidable tragedy. NATO should support those countries sending in their respective Special Forces to secure the crash site and allow teams of International Investigators to determine what happened.
 
If the Russians are culpable, then heavily sanction their economy -and if Russia continues to assist the rebels- assist the Ukraine with advanced military weapons systems to the degree that Russia stops supporting the rebels. 
 
It happened in Europe and the Europeans can handle it if they choose to. Russia needs Europe's cash as much as Europe needs Russia's gas.  

Lancelot do not be stupid, NATO send in special forces, Russia would then send in theirs and wipe them out.

Sanctions are the only thing and one of the best would be to warn Putin if he does not tell the pro Russian forces to open the area to investigators they will take away their host nation to be the host nation to the 2018 world soccer country or all Europe country's to not send their country's team to the World Cup and to push for many other country's to do the same that will make him think, the Russian public will cause riots and businesses will kick up a big stink. The money they would lose.

[schondie]

I think it would be best if everyone cooled their heels until there's definite proof of guilt. So far it's a case of "He said / She said" between the Ukrainians and the Russians. But yes, it looks like it was mistaken by the Russian separatists for a Ukrainian plane. Let's see the proof from the investigation before playing the blame game.

 

Either way, the Americans should quieten down on the "hell to pay" statements as I recall they downed an Iran Airways civilian jet in 1988 and never even apologised for it.

[shaurene]

I don't buy for a second those "Russian media is 100% government" jabs. It's nonsense. I read half a dozen "independently owned" news sites. There is a lot of information in Russian that is different from the TV1 rubbish. I would suggest to the "100%" sayers to learn the Russian language and start reading online for own enlightenment.

Hi Gonki
What about the conversation with the Pro Russia fighter with the Russian intelligence officer, he tells the Russian guy they just shot down a civilian plane and they would not have this type of launcher. Why will these pro Russian rebels not allow the press or investigators into the site???

Putin is hiding as much as he can. We are not condemning the Russian working people.

[lovetotravel]

I think it would be best if everyone cooled their heels until there's definite proof of guilt. So far it's a case of "He said / She said" between the Ukrainians and the Russians. But yes, it looks like it was mistaken by the Russian separatists for a Ukrainian plane. Let's see the proof from the investigation before playing the blame game.
 
Either way, the Americans should quieten down on the "hell to pay" statements as I recall they downed an Iran Airways civilian jet in 1988 and never even apologised for it.

 
Not a first for Russia either:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
 

The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident,^%5B2%5D but later admitted the shootdown, claiming that the aircraft was on a spy mission.^%5B3%5D The Politburo said it was a deliberate provocation by the United States^%5B4%5D to test the Soviet Union's military preparedness, or even to provoke a war. The White House accused the Soviet Union of obstructing search and rescue operations.^%5B5%5D The Soviet military suppressed evidence sought by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) investigation, notably the flight data recorders,^%5B6%5D which were eventually released eight years later after the collapse of the Soviet Union.^%5B7%5D

"We shot down the plane legally... Later we began to lie about small details: the plane was supposedly flying without running lights or strobe light, that tracer bullets were fired, or that I had radio contact with them on the emergency frequency of 121.5 megahertz."[38]

 

 

[chuckd]

I think it would be best if everyone cooled their heels until there's definite proof of guilt. So far it's a case of "He said / She said" between the Ukrainians and the Russians. But yes, it looks like it was mistaken by the Russian separatists for a Ukrainian plane. Let's see the proof from the investigation before playing the blame game.

 

Either way, the Americans should quieten down on the "hell to pay" statements as I recall they downed an Iran Airways civilian jet in 1988 and never even apologised for it.

 

The US never apologized but the government did pay $61.8 million to the families of the survivors.

 

What is conveniently forgotten is one of the USS Vincennes helicopters was under attack from Iranian gunboats when the Iran Air flight was picked up on radar.  Their IFF was misread and they wrongly assumed they were under attack.

 

I hardly think the same set of circumstances existed in this particular incident in Ukraine.

[Scott]

A post with what appears to be the comment in the quote box has been removed.  

[schondie]

As I said earlier, we should wait and see who was responsible before blaming one side or the other.

 

The Ukrainians came up with theories a little too fast and the Russians are a little too quiet regarding this unfortunate episode. My head is spinning but time will tell who's telling the truth.

 

Concrete evidence is far more important than hearsay and accusations by both sides.

[englishoak]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

Wouldn't it be refreshing if governments actually told the truth, or admitted their <deleted> ups once in a while?

 

There is no need to accuse people of whatever, what should be happening is that the investigation should be transparent and open, so that the truth irrespective of who it implicates is told. If the tosspot politicians just got on with that at this point, that would be a start as opposed to trying to score points against each other, or with their electorate and covering up shitt. 

 

 

 

Wouldnt it though ? unfortunately there is no benefit in telling the truth other than to topple governments all over the world on a regular basis, good for the people fatal for those in power. 

 

There is far too much finger-pointing and propaganda involved with this. For example someone said the missile launcher (which was stolen from the Ukraine military) was moved into Russia. Is this proven or just propaganda?

 

As for the media - yes, Russia's is not free - but neither is the Western media free of bias. Far too much of it is owned by Western oligarchs like Murdoch and he is not known for telling the truth.

 

All sides have dirty fingers in this appalling disaster. The more two-and-fro accusations there are, the less likely that those responsible will be brought to justice.

 

No such thing as unbiase in main media unfortunately, its not just the media either, history in general is written by the victors, half of which being their blunders or actions is simply omitted from the main history books not reported on the main media and certainly never taught accurately in schools. Its a world of propaganda  and we  ( the people ) are all expendable. 

 

It is really interesting to see how recent history is tampered with to the point of total propaganda yet a few decades or more later when secret or restricted files are released it totally overturns the story.But do they change the history books taught in school ? of course not its left in the schools unchanged and unrevised and continues to be repeated verbatim long after the real truth comes out. If it becomes too obvious or mainstream mostly its just left out entirely and only those with a  keen interest in history ever bother to find out.

 

Of course thats a tiny minority and they can make little difference, which is exactly the way its wanted by all establishments around the globe.

 

I guarantee every side is lying through their teeth purely for their own agenda. The victims dont mean a thing to anyone but the poor families who lost loved ones. You dont fly over a war zone if you care about safety thats the bottom line... right or wrong about whats going on below you simply dont gamble with peoples lives if you give a crap. 

 

There isnt any innocent parties in this, not Europe not Russia not Ukraine and not the airline. They are all guilty on some level for these people deaths. 

[alfalfa19]

I did not realize that Fox News had such a strong presence in Russia. 

[Maggusoil]

We are much closer to Orwell's 1984 than most people realize........

 

Closer!? This 'is' the matrix. We just can't see it. Well, most of us can't.

[oldsailor35]

 

Putin's Russia is a good indication of what would happen to Thailand if Thaksin won. Something for all the red expats to consider.

Is Putin a bad guy?

Why do you say so?

There are other opinions too >>> http://time.com/3005439/putin-approval-ratings/

 

How sick can one get ?   

[dassyurus]

" A lot of the Western media is owned by independent business people trying to make a buck.  And report the news as they see it...or how they think it will sell."

 

And nothing in this statement implies the truth being reported. So instead of 1 government lying to cover their proverbial asses, we have the American way.. of a multitude of indepedent companites "telling it how they see it"????  or "telling it how it will sell"??

Either way,,, truth runs a very poor second

[dassyurus]

297 families are not happy with the Russian way OR the American way... they want the ACTUAL truth.

[lovetotravel]

" A lot of the Western media is owned by independent business people trying to make a buck.  And report the news as they see it...or how they think it will sell."

 

And nothing in this statement implies the truth being reported. So instead of 1 government lying to cover their proverbial asses, we have the American way.. of a multitude of indepedent companites "telling it how they see it"????  or "telling it how it will sell"??

Either way,,, truth runs a very poor second

 

I just did a quick search on Google for news about this disaster.  Links provided were from the UK, Australia, Germany, Al Jazeera, India, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, etc.  I'd hardly think these all use the "American" way of reporting news.  And when all sources (except Russian) report pretty much the same thing, I'd say it is probably pretty close to the truth.

[ravip]

 "credible news agencies"

 

Where do they exist?

Some examples please?

[craigt3365]

A post with a questionable news source has been removed from view.  If you do some research on that air traffic controller, you'll see he has a dodgy background.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-russian-media-ukraine-government

 

A variety of media, including the official newspaper of the Russian government, quoted the Twitter account of a "Spanish dispatcher" supposedly working for Ukrainian air traffic control, suggesting that two Ukrainian fighter jets shot down MH17. The Spanish embassy later said the account was fraudulent and denied that any Spanish person had worked as an air traffic controller in Kiev.

 

 

[jinners]

 

Putin's Russia is a good indication of what would happen to Thailand if Thaksin won. Something for all the red expats to consider.

Is Putin a bad guy?

Why do you say so?

There are other opinions too >>> http://time.com/3005439/putin-approval-ratings/

 

 

And the polls taken while the ex chief of the KGB is in charge. Must be as true as the bodies from the plane being shot down are those from the missing airliner.
 

[stephen terry]

To down a civilian plane for political reasons - has the world gone mad?  SA missiles capable of hitting a target at over 30,000 need a sophisticated launch system, and presumably the human expertise. Russia has that capability. I doubt the Ukranian separatists have any more than low flying hand launch missiles, and I just don't believe that it would help their cause to attack a civilian plane, anyway.

 

The order for such a launch must have come from Moscow - it's inconceivable that such a decision would be at ground level. 

 

In case anyone thinks I'm not being sympathetic to the victims, they have been at the forefront of my thoughts for them and their families since this tragedy.   May the truth come about, and the perpetrators punished. RIP.. 

[HappyinNE]

Does anyone remember the US Navy downing an Iranian Air Liner?  It was an admitted mistake.  I believe the Malaysia Airlines was also an unfortunate mistake.  In this day and age a mistake can have horrable consequences.  There is no way to eliminate all mistakes, unfortunately.

[lovetotravel]

Does anyone remember the US Navy downing an Iranian Air Liner?  It was an admitted mistake.  I believe the Malaysia Airlines was also an unfortunate mistake.  In this day and age a mistake can have horrable consequences.  There is no way to eliminate all mistakes, unfortunately.

 

Yes, a horrible incident.  The navy ship was being harassed by Iranian gun boats and was in hot pursuit of them.  In Iranian waters.  A plane was detected and they made an ID mistake.  Fault was admitted, money was paid to survivor's relatives, but no official apology was issued.  The great thing about American media is the ability to pursue the truth.  Try to do this type of investigation in Russia.  Never happen.

 

But it's different from what has just happened.  Though, in both cases, innocent people lost their lives.  Terrible.  Leaders of ALL of these countries deserve the blame.