Visa for Real (Long stay) Tourists...

[Gabor]

Just to note that, while a US citizen in Thailand requires 4 hours of class instruction to maintain an education visa, a Thai student in the US requires 18 hours per week of class study to maintain an education visa

Believe it or not, the USA isn't the navel of the WORLD, nor any kind of exemplar. Who cares on a Thailand forum what do you boil in the USA, many escaped from ?

Edited July 20, 2014 by Gabor

[Gabor]

So for a minimum cost stay - They can come in, transport around/chill in Thilaland for 6 months,

then visit, say Cambodia/Vietnam for 4/5 days, then come back for 180 days?

No tourist can get a visa to stay 6 months in Thailand. They have to leave the country and come back to stay that long.

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

[JLCrab]

Just to note that, while a US citizen in Thailand requires 4 hours of class instruction to maintain an education visa, a Thai student in the US requires 18 hours per week of class study to maintain an education visa

Believe it or not, the USA isn't the navel of the WORLD, nor any kind of exemplar. Who cares on a Thailand forum what do you boil in the USA, many escaped from ?

I don't believe it.

[larsjohnsson]

I used to advise all my friends that this was the place to be. The Thais are totally cool, business things are happening. There's all kinds of investment opportunities. And some really interesting people from all the world are doing interesting things here.

I still advise all my friends to visit Thailand - the people are still excellent, great food, great climate and its still amazing.

But...

The opportunities to make Thailand a productive base are diminishing. Immigration is more hassle than its worth. Trying to run a company is a nightmare. And the pool of interesting international expats doing interesting things is on the decline. And unless your an investor who is able to participate at the uppermost levels - investing time, energy, ideas and money is increasingly risky.

So to where is the once large pool of interesting expats in Thailand and now looking to establish totally cool business things elsewhere relocating?

It's funny. When they like to stay in Thailand long time, they are genuine tourists. But when they are moving out, they are interesting expats Edited July 20, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Christie Paul]

I used to advise all my friends that this was the place to be. The Thais are totally cool, business things are happening. There's all kinds of investment opportunities. And some really interesting people from all the world are doing interesting things here.

I still advise all my friends to visit Thailand - the people are still excellent, great food, great climate and its still amazing.

But...

The opportunities to make Thailand a productive base are diminishing. Immigration is more hassle than its worth. Trying to run a company is a nightmare. And the pool of interesting international expats doing interesting things is on the decline. And unless your an investor who is able to participate at the uppermost levels - investing time, energy, ideas and money is increasingly risky.

So to where is the once large pool of interesting expats in Thailand and now looking to establish totally cool business things elsewhere relocating?

I only know a few examples:

Two well known writers - Indonesia. One jewellery designer - Italy. Half a dozen film people - all over the place. 2 black soul singers - the Philippines. Three IT developers Sri Lanka and most entrepreneurs I know now have their corporate structures in Hong Kong.

All of the above would prefer Thailand. All of the above found being legal in Thailand a struggle.

[JLCrab]

Sorry to hear of that.

[Maestro]

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

I don't think the triple-entry tourist visa was ever intended for a long-term stay of nine months with just two border runs, although some people seem to use it that way.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[impulse]

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

I don't think the triple-entry tourist visa was ever intended for a long-term stay of nine months with just two border runs, although some people seem to use it that way.

+1. While the visa can theoretically give someone 9 months in country, tax rules kick in after 180 days in a calendar year. The 3 entries are to allow a tourist to bop around SE Asia, spending part of that time in Thailand in 3 discrete chunks- not to set up a household. Same with visa runs- a nice way to visit some of the neighboring countries on a jaunt, while flying in and out of Thailand (leaving behind some tourist cash).

Nice, flexible, reasonable programs- abused to the hilt. And now, there are a myriad of threads about "going the ED visa route" Any bets about where that's going to end up?

Personally, I'm for allowing people to live wherever they don't put a drain on their host country, but the realities of cross border travel and commerce and taxation get a lot more complicated.

[AYJAYDEE]

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

I don't think the triple-entry tourist visa was ever intended for a long-term stay of nine months with just two border runs, although some people seem to use it that way.

+1. While the visa can theoretically give someone 9 months in country, tax rules kick in after 180 days in a calendar year. The 3 entries are to allow a tourist to bop around SE Asia, spending part of that time in Thailand in 3 discrete chunks- not to set up a household. Same with visa runs- a nice way to visit some of the neighboring countries on a jaunt, while flying in and out of Thailand (leaving behind some tourist cash).

Nice, flexible, reasonable programs- abused to the hilt. And now, there are a myriad of threads about "going the ED visa route" Any bets about where that's going to end up?

Personally, I'm for allowing people to live wherever they don't put a drain on their host country, but the realities of cross border travel and commerce and taxation get a lot more complicated.

its difficult to define what is adrain. rich farangs tend to elevate property values and price poorer thais out of the market

[Gabor]

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

I don't think the triple-entry tourist visa was ever intended for a long-term stay of nine months with just two border runs, although some people seem to use it that way.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Intended or not.... practically legal, unless anything other is written in the law...

[JLCrab]

What is written into law is this: The official Immigration translation of Police Order 777/2551 of which 2.4 covers the 30 day extension of tourist visas with the heading:

Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Note the word 'consideration'. It is always within the discretion of the 'competent official' whether or not to grant such extension -- they are in no way obligated to do so just because you show up with your 1900 baht.

[enuff said]

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

I don't think the triple-entry tourist visa was ever intended for a long-term stay of nine months with just two border runs, although some people seem to use it that way.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Intended or not.... practically legal, unless anything other is written in the law...

That's where you are wrong Gabor. There has already been a thousand posts on here explaining that no laws have changed and that out/in behaviour was merely tolerated as a convenience to tourists.

UNTIL

So many sum-bishes who only wanted to plop there butts down in Pattaya for years and not tour anything but the top of a bar stool finally took the piss so much that Thai Imm. had to do something about it.

'nuff said

~

[notmyself]

I bet Thailand made up their own idea of what a tourist is.

Here is what the World Tourist Organization says...

"traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

So..you see, long stayers can be tourists up to a year....according to everyone else, except Thailand. Notice that the above mentions leisure, business and other purposes.

Note that it uses the word 'places' as in plural -- not stay in one place outside, etc.

So a holidaymaker who wishes to spend 4 months on the same patch of beach in order to suck up the Sun should apply for what visa exactly?

[JLCrab]

I don't have the slightest idea.

[notmyself]

+1. While the visa can theoretically give someone 9 months in country, tax rules kick in after 180 days in a calendar year.

I walk (fly) into Thailand with US%10k in cash for the purpose of a 270 day holiday. YOU say that I am liable to tax rules and I say you are wrong.

[notmyself]

I don't have the slightest idea.

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

[JLCrab]

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

But you said 4 months exactly on the same patch of beach and under the 2-entry tourist visa such holiday maker would have the exit the Kingdom at least once so they would not exactly be able to stay on the same patch of beach for an uninterrupted 4 months.

[notmyself]

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

But you said 4 months exactly on the same patch of beach and under the 2-entry tourist visa such holiday maker would have the exit the Kingdom at least once so they would not exactly be able to stay on the same patch of beach for an uninterrupted 4 months.

Point is... With an 'out-in' it would still not constitute tourism but rather holidaymaking.

[Thai dive]

I don't have the slightest idea.

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

I spoke with the Thai embassy in L.A. California and Washington D.C. Friday. They both said tourist visa with multiple entries is good for 90 days every six months. Leave country and return does not extend time. I know that has not been the previous experience of visa holders. Just sharing what I was told.

[JLCrab]

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

But you said 4 months exactly on the same patch of beach and under the 2-entry tourist visa such holiday maker would have the exit the Kingdom at least once so they would not exactly be able to stay on the same patch of beach for an uninterrupted 4 months.

Point is... With an 'out-in' it would still not constitute tourism but rather holidaymaking.

So a holiday-maker is out-in but a tourist is in-out?

[larsjohnsson]

So for a minimum cost stay - They can come in, transport around/chill in Thilaland for 6 months,

then visit, say Cambodia/Vietnam for 4/5 days, then come back for 180 days?

No tourist can get a visa to stay 6 months in Thailand. They have to leave the country and come back to stay that long.

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

A triple tourist visa will be good for 9 months. But you can't stay 9 months or 6 months in Thailand. You have to leave the country after 90 days.

And that's what I wrote in my original post. A tourist can't stay 6 months inside Thailand

Edited July 22, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Maroon Watcher]

... and if they are having a "Bad hair day" they can do and say what they want - they can "punish" you
for daring to use body language that suggests, that they/or someone in the office made a complete F up!

TIME to have written RULES ON the Office Wall - so NO ONE can be "Confused!"

OK after that, a NAMED superior Duty officer has the right to intervene under special circumstance - (not covered by the basic rules)

BUT the Point is RULES are RULES - no qustions ANYWHERE in Thailand.

Most Immigration officers I have met are genuine professionals - but a few are Definately Not.

In my experience 1 in 3 visits has seen someone crying, destraught or shaking their head/arms in the air -

completely amazed at their experience. (I don't believe that all these people were trying to do anything illegal)

This is NOT good for Thailand - especially for working or doing business here -

It is NOT any Honour to Live here! (Or be a genuine tourist)

What is written into law is this: The official Immigration translation of Police Order 777/2551 of which 2.4 covers the 30 day extension of tourist visas with the heading:

Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Note the word 'consideration'. It is always within the discretion of the 'competent official' whether or not to grant such extension -- they are in no way obligated to do so just because you show up with your 1900 baht.

[Timwin]

This is NOT good for Thailand - especially for working or doing business here -

It is NOT any Honour to Live here! (Or be a genuine tourist)

These idiotic tourist visa rules will affect also other visas. Many people use visa exempt entries in-between visas, while waiting for papers, that could take months. It is now very probably that many people will be denied of entry because some officer thinks you have "too" many exempts or tourist visas in the past. Then some two day overstayer, mistakenly read the last date wrong, gets one year ban while his house and car are left empty and unsupervised.

Basically the new rules assume zero mistakes and zero unfortunate incidents like somebody scamming most of your money. Just recently neighbour lost 200K Baht because he went to the wrong website.

You could be accused for example of working illegal while applying for business visa/work permit and denied entry! Or while waiting for retirement visa they decided to have one more tourist visa and are denied. Totally kafkaesque situation. To invest in Thailand in this situation is totally laughable. Might as well invest to Nigerian prince scams.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Timwin

[Gabor]

What is written into law is this: The official Immigration translation of Police Order 777/2551 of which 2.4 covers the 30 day extension of tourist visas with the heading:

Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Note the word 'consideration'. It is always within the discretion of the 'competent official' whether or not to grant such extension -- they are in no way obligated to do so just because you show up with your 1900 baht.

if you have a legal non imm, tourist etc. visa... " It is always within the discretion of the 'competent official' whether or not to grant such extension "

So nothing to do with the official validity of the 3 entry tourist visa...

[Gabor]

3 entry tourist visa is good for 9 months by the law...( not under the recent rules )

I don't think the triple-entry tourist visa was ever intended for a long-term stay of nine months with just two border runs, although some people seem to use it that way.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Intended or not.... practically legal, unless anything other is written in the law...

That's where you are wrong Gabor. There has already been a thousand posts on here explaining that no laws have changed and that out/in behaviour was merely tolerated as a convenience to tourists.

UNTIL

So many sum-bishes who only wanted to plop there butts down in Pattaya for years and not tour anything but the top of a bar stool finally took the piss so much that Thai Imm. had to do something about it.

'nuff said

~

Exactly what I say... the law don't changed, just the interpretation.... do you want to say, the thai immigration officers broke the law and abused the visa system for decades, allow the 3 entry tourist visa to use it for a 9 month trip ? In your inbterpretation they did....

[Gabor]

I don't have the slightest idea.

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

I spoke with the Thai embassy in L.A. California and Washington D.C. Friday. They both said tourist visa with multiple entries is good for 90 days every six months. Leave country and return does not extend time. I know that has not been the previous experience of visa holders. Just sharing what I was told.

It was true for people arrived without visa, on the arrival stamp... is the law changed ? I doubt.... Why bother to make laws if the authorities ignore them ?

[notmyself]

ANY Thai embassy will tell you it is a tourist visa (double entry). A visa for a holidaymaker is covered under a tourist visa.

But you said 4 months exactly on the same patch of beach and under the 2-entry tourist visa such holiday maker would have the exit the Kingdom at least once so they would not exactly be able to stay on the same patch of beach for an uninterrupted 4 months.

Point is... With an 'out-in' it would still not constitute tourism but rather holidaymaking.

So a holiday-maker is out-in but a tourist is in-out?

All just a question of terminology. A tourist (should) be engaged in activities associated with touring such as visiting temples and various locations. Think of a gap year student who dons a backpack and travels around seeing the world or even just a country. Someone on holiday may not be engaged in such activities yet are covered under a tourist visa. With the four month example, if the person pops to their local border to activate a new entry and then returns then I doubt it can be seen as an activity associated with tourism, or touring.

I called Liverpool RTC last Wednesday or Thursday to make a general enquiry regarding much of the above scenario and they confirmed it. I also enquired about proof of funds and the lady said that the signed declaration is still presently enough but that it was expected to change. Sadly, she had no idea what the change would be so far as to how much in funds and what would constitute proof. Also, no issue regarding making full use of a triple entry which she said would last around 8 1/2 months.

However, that being said... It is what happens on the ground that really matters.

[impulse]

+1. While the visa can theoretically give someone 9 months in country, tax rules kick in after 180 days in a calendar year.

I walk (fly) into Thailand with US%10k in cash for the purpose of a 270 day holiday. YOU say that I am liable to tax rules and I say you are wrong.

I quote the Thai Revenue Department. Have you even bothered to ask them? Or have any evidence at all for your opinion?

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

Source:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[JLCrab]

Per post #87: All just a question of terminology Yes -- and I think I'll wait until they sort it all out. BTW The US Supreme Court -- in a decision where the main plaintiff was a Thai citizen -- spent 10 pages of the decision analyzing the meaning of the phrase "made under this title".

[notmyself]

I quote the Thai Revenue Department. Have you even bothered to ask them? Or have any evidence at all for your opinion?

Taxpayers are classified into resident and non-resident. Resident means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. [/size]

Source:[/size]http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Resident means any person residing in Thailand

To live in a place permanently or for an extended period.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/resides

In legal terms, live does not mean being alive in a place but rather that that place is your domicile or home. As the piece you did not underline points out, non residents (people who may spend longer that 180 days but do not live (reside) in Thailand) are not subject to tax on outside income.

That is what my lawyer explained to me some years back but I guess it could have changed.