Gaza and Israel suffer deadliest day

[Ulysses G.]

democratic countries with professional armed forces.

And that is exactly the difference between Israel and ALL of its neighbors.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

I am not refusing to find any fault. The IDF is an army, a very moral one, which does what most armies do, follow what its government tells it to do, doing its best to follow orders while preventing hurting civilians. I don't see anything wrong in the WAY they do things, on the contrary, it sometimes seem the IDF go out of their way to not hurt civilians, so much so that they sometimes pay with their own life doing that.

That said, this has nothing to do with peace. Peace is not decided or influenced by armies, it is decided by governments, so it's not related if I see fault in the IDF way or not. I want just peace in that region more than most people I know.

 

 

 

The reason I asked if you can find any fault in the IDF is that the current global outrage at the civilian death count in Gaza is centered at some of the IDFs methods (yes I know some are just anti-semites, but lets strip those out). The unfortunate effect of this is that for some, the outrage transforms into hate. That hate then very often trickles down to the Israeli government, as well as to its supporters.

 

Now I believe the more moderate critics (which I consider myself - though I know many find it more convenient to just cluster everyone in a big "anti-Israel" camp) are the key to placating this hate. I'm talking about critics on both sides and hate on both sides. These people must make concessions (i defend the Gazans but despise Hamas and the fact they got 44%+ of the votes) otherwise the wall between the sides will never be brought down. Once a side sees that the other side understands just even ONE of their complaints, a tiny link is established. 

 

When I narrowed it down to just talking about the payload of the missiles, that was the concession I was hoping to get from you. But you brushed it aside and gave me the standard talking points I have read time and again. I'm not saying they are false talking points, mind you, just that they were not related to payload of a missile.

 

I understand the "f*** the world", no apologies mentality. "F*** the UN/World, Israel has the right to defend itself in whatever way it chooses!"

 

One of my biggest shames in my life was my vehement defense of why the US needed to invade Iraq. I literally said "f*** the world, Saddam has WMDs and the US is well within its rights to defend its middle east interests". I remain right-wing fiscally and on some other issues, but the end result of the Iraq debacle demolished my "f*** the world - the US knows what its doing" mentality.

 

Acknowledging a fault in one's side lifts one out from behind the intransigent wall of moral superiority (which allows for no "common-ground" discourse - I mean why negotiate if you are faultless?) to a more human middle ground where positive discussion and negotiation can thrive.

 

 

I love your comment for several reasons.

It shows you have a common sense, you are reasonable and it explains where your comments & opinions are coming from.

It also shows that you are mistakenly comparing Israel (and its' justified self-defense reactive approach to direct terror & hostility on its land) with the USA and its pro-active approach far away from home.

The intelligence assessments at the time were wrong and concluded that Iraq had WMD and thus the war was justified by you, but you found out that it was all a big mistake (arguably big lies) of the intelligence agencies, you felt cheated and changed your mind on the entire offensive campaign GB led. I am quite sure you would have think the same way you used to, if WMD were indeed found, because then you could come and tell the world "you see f***rs, we saved your asses, so STFU!".

Israel can't be compared to the USA. Israel doesn't attack the Hamas on a hunch, it has been attacked for months and is reacting the same way any country would react in a such a case, as you would probably agree.

When you are bombing a house that hides explosives and missiles, yes, there is certainly going to be collateral damage of of this neighborhood block and nearby neighborhood blocks, and that's what the Hamas actually want, to have as many more such photos it can use to help its' propaganda and to further de-legitimize Israel, despite the fact the destroyed block was caused by its' own explosives. Israel have learnt that and since then video recording, both for legal and public-view reasons, almost every such military act, videos which you can easily find online.

This is not to say there aren't some blocks being destroyed due to the missiles used in the neighborhood, but that's not caused by deliberate targeting or destruction of those blocks. It's caused by the neighborhood's density there and the fact that there is no missile that can completely destroy a specific house without causing a domino-effect in such congested area.

There are also mistakes the IDF is doing, no army can avoid mistakes in such a condensed war-zone, but they are just that, innocent mistakes and human-errors (which include friendly-fire as well, causing fatalities to its own soldiers), while it succeeds in maintaining very high moral and legal standards and doing its very best to protect and avoid hurting innocent civilians.

[dr_lucas]

 

The IDF doesn't blow up entire neighborhood blocks, that's just over-exaggeration.

It's kind of you to be so diplomatic, but it is actually a blatant lie.

 

 

So now I am a liar. Thanks. Read my previous reply, just above this one, maybe it will clarify it.

[JDGRUEN]

A bit of a rehash, but worth reading.

 

What drove Hamas to take on Israel?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28371966

 

 

Could it be because Hamas is protected from being criticized for its terroristic behavior by the EU and American Liberal - Leftist News Media? ... Who would make excuses for Radical Islamic Terrorists - a.k.a. Hamas even if they were broadcast on live video by the International News Media eating puppies and kittens alive while on T.V.   'that is not what happened - it was a false broadcast by an Israeli propaganda agency... It was - it really was... bleet bleet bleet go the sheep ... 

 

It matters nothing what Hamas does in the way of terroristic actions - killing - maming innocent civilians, kidnapping ... using their own women and children as shields so that Israel can be painted in a horrible light when these same 'Palestinian' women and children are killed ... Hamas can do these things freely and in the open -- BECAUSE the compliant and cooperative 'so called International News Media' ARE ON THEIR SIDE... 

[Ulysses G.]

There are some holes in your education. George Orwell's "1984" accurately forecast the media campaigns of Zionists.

Sounds like your education consists of listening to David Duke and skimming the Ron Paul newsletters. Orwell wrote the book as a satire criticizing Stalinism. 

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel has the military firepower and lack of conscience required to continue murdering Palestinians, and it won't stop until it's gotten its fill.  No one doubts that it will win this massacre it started on an utterly false premise.

 

But in the medium to long term, Israel's actions are only going to harm itself.   Without support from the US, Israel will be completely alone on the world stage with no one to protect it from the justice it so readily deserves.  And the polling indicates that the younger generation in the US isn't going to support Israel like many of their parents did.  And this is for one reason and one reason only:  Israel's inhumane actions.  Even younger Evangelical Christians in the US are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

 

The writing is on the wall and if Israel is concerned about its viability, it had better read what it says, or in a few generations it may end up alongside Yugoslavia, Bengal and Prussia on the scrap heap of history.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

The IDF doesn't blow up entire neighborhood blocks, that's just over-exaggeration.

It's kind of you to be so diplomatic, but it is actually a blatant lie.

 

 
So now I am a liar. Thanks. Read my previous reply, just above this one, maybe it will clarify it.

 

Apologies, if I was not clear. I was actually paying you a compliment. You are being very honest. You were replying to a lie, but, IMO,  being overly polite about it.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

Posts removed to enabe response.

 

I can accept a news report can be inaccurate, but it does quote IDF, again maybe inaccurate reporting.

 

"The IDF announced on Sunday that it was setting up a field hospital at the Erez border crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip. The field hospital was set to begin functioning at 8 p.m. on Sunday."

 

Forgive me, but I still find it a real challenge to believe 100s of doctors are allocated to a facility dedicated to ”serve mainly women and children and will include a delivery room”. If you insist it's true so be it.

 

Are there that many civilians expected to be transported to the Field Hospital for triage & treatment? If so confirms the reported volume of civilian women and child casualties that some are busily denying and saying its’ just Palestinian propaganda.

 

Again I say it's good that Israel is providing medical services for "enemy civilians". I would not expect otherwise; it is standard practice for democratic countries with professional armed forces.

 

 

I wish I took some pictures for you to believe it, but anyway, here is a more detailed report: http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-set-to-open-field-hospital-for-wounded-gazans/

As I said just above, your desire to know the accurate number of doctors, hundreds, thousands or 50, is just nitpicking and you simply seem to miss the main point.

As said by @Liviu: even there are, say, 36% of Israeli doctors, who gives a shit? It doesn't matter. The whole point is about Israel helping the injured. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

But in the medium to long term, Israel's actions are only going to harm itself.

From your rabid posts, it is obvious that you only have Israel's best interests at heart. There is little doubt that they would be pleased at your sincere concerns for their well being.

[CBR250]

 

 

 

I am not refusing to find any fault. The IDF is an army, a very moral one, which does what most armies do, follow what its government tells it to do, doing its best to follow orders while preventing hurting civilians. I don't see anything wrong in the WAY they do things, on the contrary, it sometimes seem the IDF go out of their way to not hurt civilians, so much so that they sometimes pay with their own life doing that.

That said, this has nothing to do with peace. Peace is not decided or influenced by armies, it is decided by governments, so it's not related if I see fault in the IDF way or not. I want just peace in that region more than most people I know.

 

 

 

The reason I asked if you can find any fault in the IDF is that the current global outrage at the civilian death count in Gaza is centered at some of the IDFs methods (yes I know some are just anti-semites, but lets strip those out). The unfortunate effect of this is that for some, the outrage transforms into hate. That hate then very often trickles down to the Israeli government, as well as to its supporters.

 

Now I believe the more moderate critics (which I consider myself - though I know many find it more convenient to just cluster everyone in a big "anti-Israel" camp) are the key to placating this hate. I'm talking about critics on both sides and hate on both sides. These people must make concessions (i defend the Gazans but despise Hamas and the fact they got 44%+ of the votes) otherwise the wall between the sides will never be brought down. Once a side sees that the other side understands just even ONE of their complaints, a tiny link is established. 

 

When I narrowed it down to just talking about the payload of the missiles, that was the concession I was hoping to get from you. But you brushed it aside and gave me the standard talking points I have read time and again. I'm not saying they are false talking points, mind you, just that they were not related to payload of a missile.

 

I understand the "f*** the world", no apologies mentality. "F*** the UN/World, Israel has the right to defend itself in whatever way it chooses!"

 

One of my biggest shames in my life was my vehement defense of why the US needed to invade Iraq. I literally said "f*** the world, Saddam has WMDs and the US is well within its rights to defend its middle east interests". I remain right-wing fiscally and on some other issues, but the end result of the Iraq debacle demolished my "f*** the world - the US knows what its doing" mentality.

 

Acknowledging a fault in one's side lifts one out from behind the intransigent wall of moral superiority (which allows for no "common-ground" discourse - I mean why negotiate if you are faultless?) to a more human middle ground where positive discussion and negotiation can thrive.

 

 

I love your comment for several reasons.

It shows you have a common sense, you are reasonable and it explains where your comments & opinions are coming from.

It also shows that you are mistakenly comparing Israel (and its' justified self-defense reactive approach to direct terror & hostility on its land) with the USA and its pro-active approach far away from home.

The intelligence assessments at the time were wrong and concluded that Iraq had WMD and thus the war was justified by you, but you found out that it was all a big mistake (arguably big lies) of the intelligence agencies, you felt cheated and changed your mind on the entire offensive campaign GB led. I am quite sure you would have think the same way you used to, if WMD were indeed found, because then you could come and tell the world "you see f***rs, we saved your asses, so <deleted>!".

Israel can't be compared to the USA. Israel doesn't attack the Hamas on a hunch, it has been attacked for months and is reacting the same way any country would react in a such a case, as you would probably agree.

When you are bombing a house that hides explosives and missiles, yes, there is certainly going to be collateral damage of of this neighborhood block and nearby neighborhood blocks, and that's what the Hamas actually want, to have as many more such photos it can use to help its' propaganda and to further de-legitimize Israel, despite the fact the destroyed block was caused by its' own explosives. Israel have learnt that and since then video recording, both for legal and public-view reasons, almost every such military act, videos which you can easily find online.

This is not to say there aren't some blocks being destroyed due to the missiles used in the neighborhood, but that's not caused by deliberate targeting or destruction of those blocks. It's caused by the neighborhood's density there and the fact that there is no missile that can completely destroy a specific house without causing a domino-effect in such congested area.

There are also mistakes the IDF is doing, no army can avoid mistakes in such a condensed war-zone, but they are just that, innocent mistakes and human-errors (which include friendly-fire as well, causing fatalities to its own soldiers), while it succeeds in maintaining very high moral and legal standards and doing its very best to protect and avoid hurting innocent civilians.

 

 

I am glad that the collateral damage of houses is not "caused by deliberate targeting or destruction of those blocks. It's caused by the neighborhood's density there and the fact that there is no missile that can completely destroy a specific house without causing a domino-effect in such congested area".

 

This means that Israel has changed its policies from ealier years, when it bulldozed not only the house of some suspected enemy combatant (sometimes this meant a 14 year old throwing stones), but also knocked down the houses of his neighbours. When you are on foot and in vehicles, unlike with missiles, it is easy to destroy a single property without affecting neighbouring houses if you choose. Do you mean to say that the IDF lacks the engineering ability to isolate a single house? They didn't know that they were deliberately destroying the houses of people who have committed no crime other than to live next door to someone? Do Israeli police destroy the houses of the nearest neighbours in Tel Aviv when they suspect an Israeli has committed a crime? If not, why the difference in the treatment of Palestinians?

 

Between 2001 and 2005, Israel’s military demolished 664 houses belonging to suspected Palestinian militants - and their families, (according to B’Tselem, a non-Zionist Jewish organisation). The suspect may not have lived there for years. Last week they began again. This is not the "accidental" or "collateral" damage that you would have us believe.

 

One of the saddest aspects of all this is that if this treatment were meted out to Israelis, they would remember their persecutors for generations, as with the Holocaust. Israel isn't so dim that it can't see this will also be the Palestinian response. Israel is building up generations of hatred quite consciously. What kind of civilised behaviour is that?

[MJP]

Israel has the military firepower and lack of conscience required to continue murdering Palestinians, and it won't stop until it's gotten its fill.  No one doubts that it will win this massacre it started on an utterly false premise.

 

But in the medium to long term, Israel's actions are only going to harm itself.   Without support from the US, Israel will be completely alone on the world stage with no one to protect it from the justice it so readily deserves.  And the polling indicates that the younger generation in the US isn't going to support Israel like many of their parents did.  And this is for one reason and one reason only:  Israel's inhumane actions.  Even younger Evangelical Christians in the US are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

 

The writing is on the wall and if Israel is concerned about its viability, it had better read what it says, or in a few generations it may end up alongside Yugoslavia, Bengal and Prussia on the scrap heap of history.

 

Yup.

Israel's present atrocity will only bring Jihad and ISIS to their doorstep. This is a disaster for Israel. They needed to win the hearts and minds of ordinary Palestinians and all they're doing is creating a new generation of terrorists. Killing children is not the way to go about this. Mossad should have been all over Hamas and the rocket locations. There was no need for any of this.

[up-country_sinclair]

 

But in the medium to long term, Israel's actions are only going to harm itself.

From your rabid posts, it is obvious that you only have Israel's best interests at heart. There is little doubt that they would be pleased at your sincere concerns for their well being.

 

 

Rabid?

 

Why are you resorting to personal attacks?

[kblaze]

 

The IDF doesn't blow up entire neighborhood blocks, that's just over-exaggeration.

It's kind of you to be so diplomatic, but it is actually a blatant lie.

 

 

Do you we have to break down the word "block" now?

 

I just google searched "neighborhood block gaza destroyed" got a wall of pictures (linked below), was about to pick one, then it hit me; anything I post will be discounted immediately[attachment=276467:GAZA.jpg].

[dr_lucas]

Israel has the military firepower and lack of conscience required to continue murdering Palestinians, and it won't stop until it's gotten its fill.  No one doubts that it will win this massacre it started on an utterly false premise.

 

 

 

Massacre? Murdering Palestinians? That's quite huge accusations (considering the fact you even understand the meaning of the words). Do they also drink their blood later, or is it before?

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY

[JDGRUEN]

 

 

But in the medium to long term, Israel's actions are only going to harm itself.

From your rabid posts, it is obvious that you only have Israel's best interests at heart. There is little doubt that they would be pleased at your sincere concerns for their well being.

 

 

Rabid?

 

Why are you resorting to personal attacks?

 

 

Sarcasm is the correct word... I am sure you know the difference... 

[Liviu]

Israel's present atrocity will only bring Jihad and ISIS to their doorstep. This is a disaster for Israel. They needed to win the hearts and minds of ordinary Palestinians and all they're doing is creating a new generation of terrorists. Killing children is not the way to go about this. Mossad should have been all over Hamas and the rocket locations. There was no need for any of this.

 

 

 

 

 

So, if you come to me and attack me and AFTER that I will defend my self and even punch you in order to stop you harming me, this is what you call atrocity ?

 

You guys have a serious problem. Beer anyone?

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

But in the medium to long term, Israel's actions are only going to harm itself.

From your rabid posts, it is obvious that you only have Israel's best interests at heart. There is little doubt that they would be pleased at your sincere concerns for their well being.

 

 

Rabid?

 

Why are you resorting to personal attacks?

 

 

Rabid posts. Are you a post? 

[Jingthing]

 

Israel's present atrocity will only bring Jihad and ISIS to their doorstep. This is a disaster for Israel. They needed to win the hearts and minds of ordinary Palestinians and all they're doing is creating a new generation of terrorists. Killing children is not the way to go about this. Mossad should have been all over Hamas and the rocket locations. There was no need for any of this.

 

 

 

 

 

So, if you come to me and attack me and AFTER that I will defend my self and even punch you in order to stop you harming me, this is what you call atrocity ?

 

You guys have a serious problem. Beer anyone?

 

 A different standard is applied to Israel by Israel demonizers. In their own countries, they would know what is required to respond to terrorists. Of course it's not a coincidence that this double standard is applied to one and only Jewish state on the planet. 

 

Perhaps there is a nostalgia for the old style Jews, the pre-Zionist Jews, those cute, cuddly, and adorable Jews of the good old days like during the Spanish Inquisition ... 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

 

democratic countries with professional armed forces.

And that is exactly the difference between Israel and ALL of its neighbors.

 

 

By 2040 Israel will almost certainly have professional armed forces, but whether or not it is still a democracy is another matter altogether.

[CBR250]

Reports coming in that Israeli tank shells just killed 30 civilians in a UN "safe place" in Gaza, not far from where the Israelis murdered 4 children a few weeks ago. Now watch the TV Zionists (aka the hypocritical, spin doctoring, ethically bankrupt & morally degenerate supporters of sociopathic murderers) rush to blame Hamas.

Edited July 24, 2014 by CBR250

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

 

I am not refusing to find any fault. The IDF is an army, a very moral one, which does what most armies do, follow what its government tells it to do, doing its best to follow orders while preventing hurting civilians. I don't see anything wrong in the WAY they do things, on the contrary, it sometimes seem the IDF go out of their way to not hurt civilians, so much so that they sometimes pay with their own life doing that.

That said, this has nothing to do with peace. Peace is not decided or influenced by armies, it is decided by governments, so it's not related if I see fault in the IDF way or not. I want just peace in that region more than most people I know.

 

 

 

The reason I asked if you can find any fault in the IDF is that the current global outrage at the civilian death count in Gaza is centered at some of the IDFs methods (yes I know some are just anti-semites, but lets strip those out). The unfortunate effect of this is that for some, the outrage transforms into hate. That hate then very often trickles down to the Israeli government, as well as to its supporters.

 

Now I believe the more moderate critics (which I consider myself - though I know many find it more convenient to just cluster everyone in a big "anti-Israel" camp) are the key to placating this hate. I'm talking about critics on both sides and hate on both sides. These people must make concessions (i defend the Gazans but despise Hamas and the fact they got 44%+ of the votes) otherwise the wall between the sides will never be brought down. Once a side sees that the other side understands just even ONE of their complaints, a tiny link is established. 

 

When I narrowed it down to just talking about the payload of the missiles, that was the concession I was hoping to get from you. But you brushed it aside and gave me the standard talking points I have read time and again. I'm not saying they are false talking points, mind you, just that they were not related to payload of a missile.

 

I understand the "f*** the world", no apologies mentality. "F*** the UN/World, Israel has the right to defend itself in whatever way it chooses!"

 

One of my biggest shames in my life was my vehement defense of why the US needed to invade Iraq. I literally said "f*** the world, Saddam has WMDs and the US is well within its rights to defend its middle east interests". I remain right-wing fiscally and on some other issues, but the end result of the Iraq debacle demolished my "f*** the world - the US knows what its doing" mentality.

 

Acknowledging a fault in one's side lifts one out from behind the intransigent wall of moral superiority (which allows for no "common-ground" discourse - I mean why negotiate if you are faultless?) to a more human middle ground where positive discussion and negotiation can thrive.

 

 

I love your comment for several reasons.

It shows you have a common sense, you are reasonable and it explains where your comments & opinions are coming from.

It also shows that you are mistakenly comparing Israel (and its' justified self-defense reactive approach to direct terror & hostility on its land) with the USA and its pro-active approach far away from home.

The intelligence assessments at the time were wrong and concluded that Iraq had WMD and thus the war was justified by you, but you found out that it was all a big mistake (arguably big lies) of the intelligence agencies, you felt cheated and changed your mind on the entire offensive campaign GB led. I am quite sure you would have think the same way you used to, if WMD were indeed found, because then you could come and tell the world "you see f***rs, we saved your asses, so <deleted>!".

Israel can't be compared to the USA. Israel doesn't attack the Hamas on a hunch, it has been attacked for months and is reacting the same way any country would react in a such a case, as you would probably agree.

When you are bombing a house that hides explosives and missiles, yes, there is certainly going to be collateral damage of of this neighborhood block and nearby neighborhood blocks, and that's what the Hamas actually want, to have as many more such photos it can use to help its' propaganda and to further de-legitimize Israel, despite the fact the destroyed block was caused by its' own explosives. Israel have learnt that and since then video recording, both for legal and public-view reasons, almost every such military act, videos which you can easily find online.

This is not to say there aren't some blocks being destroyed due to the missiles used in the neighborhood, but that's not caused by deliberate targeting or destruction of those blocks. It's caused by the neighborhood's density there and the fact that there is no missile that can completely destroy a specific house without causing a domino-effect in such congested area.

There are also mistakes the IDF is doing, no army can avoid mistakes in such a condensed war-zone, but they are just that, innocent mistakes and human-errors (which include friendly-fire as well, causing fatalities to its own soldiers), while it succeeds in maintaining very high moral and legal standards and doing its very best to protect and avoid hurting innocent civilians.

 

 

I am glad that the collateral damage of houses is not "caused by deliberate targeting or destruction of those blocks. It's caused by the neighborhood's density there and the fact that there is no missile that can completely destroy a specific house without causing a domino-effect in such congested area".

 

This means that Israel has changed its policies from ealier years, when it bulldozed not only the house of some suspected enemy combatant (sometimes this meant a 14 year old throwing stones), but also knocked down the houses of his neighbours. When you are on foot and in vehicles, unlike with missiles, it is easy to destroy a single property without affecting neighbouring houses if you choose. Do you mean to say that the IDF lacks the engineering ability to isolate a single house? They didn't know that they were deliberately destroying the houses of people who have committed no crime other than to live next door to someone? Do Israeli police destroy the houses of the nearest neighbours in Tel Aviv when they suspect an Israeli has committed a crime? If not, why the difference in the treatment of Palestinians?

 

Between 2001 and 2005, Israel’s military demolished 664 houses belonging to suspected Palestinian militants - and their families, (according to B’Tselem, a non-Zionist Jewish organisation). The suspect may not have lived there for years. Last week they began again. This is not the "accidental" or "collateral" damage that you would have us believe.

 

One of the saddest aspects of all this is that if this treatment were meted out to Israelis, they would remember their persecutors for generations, as with the Holocaust. Israel isn't so dim that it can't see this will also be the Palestinian response. Israel is building up generations of hatred quite consciously. What kind of civilised behaviour is that?

 

 

I mean to say the the IDF Airplanes missiles lack the engineering ability to isolate a single house in a congested area. Also engineers can't go anywhere near the area many times, as it will be too risky for the "boots on the ground" forces. The houses are not destroyed due to crimes, but due to the fact they are used to store missiles and used as missile factories.

Going back to 2001-2005 actions by the Israeli government, before it even withdrew from Gaza, is irrelevant to what we are discussing, I agree some of these actions were indeed wrong, but that's completely different than the ways and reasons discussed here.

 

Are you seriously comparing the IDF current defensive actions after Israel being constantly attacked by rockets, after everything I wrote and posted, to the Holocaust and what the Nazi did to 6 million jews?

[Ulysses G.]

ethically bankrupt supporters of socipathic murderers.

Sounds like a good description of those making lame excuses and justifications for Hamas targeting civilians and using their own people as human shields.

[MJP]

 

Israel's present atrocity will only bring Jihad and ISIS to their doorstep. This is a disaster for Israel. They needed to win the hearts and minds of ordinary Palestinians and all they're doing is creating a new generation of terrorists. Killing children is not the way to go about this. Mossad should have been all over Hamas and the rocket locations. There was no need for any of this.

 

 

 

 

 

So, if you come to me and attack me and AFTER that I will defend my self and even punch you in order to stop you harming me, this is what you call atrocity ?

 

You guys have a serious problem. Beer anyone?

 

 

They're going about it the wrong way. This will only make matters worse.
 

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Israel has the military firepower and lack of conscience required to continue murdering Palestinians, and it won't stop until it's gotten its fill.  No one doubts that it will win this massacre it started on an utterly false premise.

 

 

 

Massacre? Murdering Palestinians? That's quite huge accusations (considering the fact you even understand the meaning of the words).

 

 

165 children have been murdered in the past 17 days.

 

What is that if not a massacre?

[Ulysses G.]

They're going about it the wrong way.

The Palestinian Arabs have been going about it the wrong way for over 100 years and that is why they have nothing. They never seem to learn their lesson.

[Ulysses G.]

What is that if not a massacre?

It is WAR and Hamas - the elected leaders of Gaza - are responsible for it.

[MJP]

 

They're going about it the wrong way.

The Palestinian Arabs have been going about it the wrong way for over 100 years and that is why they have nothing. They never seem to learn their lesson.

 

 

Well, the present methods are hardly a positive reinforcement. It'll just create much more extremism.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

Israel has the military firepower and lack of conscience required to continue murdering Palestinians, and it won't stop until it's gotten its fill.  No one doubts that it will win this massacre it started on an utterly false premise.

 

 

 

Massacre? Murdering Palestinians? That's quite huge accusations (considering the fact you even understand the meaning of the words).

 

 

165 children have been murdered in the past 17 days.

 

What is that if not a massacre?

 

 

Well, at least if you wrote "165 innocent children have been killed in the past 17 days", you could have sounded just a bit less biased and one-sided.

I'd like to ask you just 2 questions, please just take a moment answer these:

Do you know the IDF warns (to evacuate) all civilians in a specific area before they enter it, by throwing hundreds of thousands of warning leaflets from planes, calling the area residents' home and mobile phones, sending SMSs and using very powerful audio announcement systems?

Do you know Hamas instructs all those people to stay at home, even if they have to sacrifice their lives?

Edited July 24, 2014 by dr_lucas

[up-country_sinclair]

 

 

Israel has the military firepower and lack of conscience required to continue murdering Palestinians, and it won't stop until it's gotten its fill.  No one doubts that it will win this massacre it started on an utterly false premise.

 

 

 

Massacre? Murdering Palestinians? That's quite huge accusations (considering the fact you even understand the meaning of the words).

 

 

165 children have been murdered in the past 17 days.

 

What is that if not a massacre?

 

 

UPDATE:

 

Israel just sent a missile into a UN Refugee school, so that 165 figure is likely to increase. 

 

Israel's unabated massacre of innocent children has to stop.

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

Two schools have been found housing Hamas rockets as well as a hospital which civilians were warned to leave for days. Is this another one of those?