Gaza and Israel suffer deadliest day

[CBR250]

I wish Hamas would drop his weapons away so both the Arabs (from Gaza) and the Israelis (I did not say just "Jewish" because in Israel are living also Christians, Muslims, Jewish) will continue to live in peace.

 

I agree - with the proviso that Israel also gives up its blockade and land grab.
 

[dr_lucas]

This is not why the civilian casualty count is high, it's because Hamas is using civilians as human shields, while the IDF is continuously doing everything it possibly can to inform civilians to evacuate before it reaches the area to search for rockets and factories (and now also terror tunnels built underneath houses): They throw hundreds of thousands of leaflets from airplane informing of their approach, they place hundred of thousands of calls, send SMS text messages, and very powerful audio announcement systems.

[kblaze]

This is not why the civilian casualty count is high, it's because Hamas is using civilians as human shields, while the IDF is continuously doing everything it possibly can to inform civilians to evacuate before it reaches the area to search for rockets and factories (and now also terror tunnels built underneath houses): They throw hundreds of thousands of leaflets from airplane informing of their approach, they place hundred of thousands of calls, send SMS text messages, and very powerful audio announcement systems.

 

....I'm not even going to dispute what you are saying...I just thought I could at least get you to acknowledge that the missiles being fired may be too powerful for an urban environment...im just trying to find some common ground to build on...is there anything in your view that the IDF is doing wrong? 

[dr_lucas]

 

I wish Hamas would drop his weapons away so both the Arabs (from Gaza) and the Israelis (I did not say just "Jewish" because in Israel are living also Christians, Muslims, Jewish) will continue to live in peace.

 

I agree - with the proviso that Israel also gives up its blockade and land grab.
 

 

 

Israel does not grab any land in Gaza since 2005. It has the right to block entry to Israel from anyone, like any sovereign country, and just as you have the right to block strangers from entering your own home.

Before you say that, yes, they also block the sea access beyond 3km from shore, but that's because the Palestinians were using the sea to smuggle arms from Iran and Hizbullah and in any case Israel let the Palestinians get anything they import from the sea, through its own ports, after promptly being security inspected.

Gaza has another border, with Egypt, their Arab "brothers", which Egypt blocks, as they also have the right to do. I wonder why nobody complains about Egypt.

Edited July 24, 2014 by dr_lucas

[dr_lucas]

 

This is not why the civilian casualty count is high, it's because Hamas is using civilians as human shields, while the IDF is continuously doing everything it possibly can to inform civilians to evacuate before it reaches the area to search for rockets and factories (and now also terror tunnels built underneath houses): They throw hundreds of thousands of leaflets from airplane informing of their approach, they place hundred of thousands of calls, send SMS text messages, and very powerful audio announcement systems.

 

....I'm not even going to dispute what you are saying...I just thought I could at least get you to acknowledge that the missiles being fired may be too powerful for an urban environment...im just trying to find some common ground to build on...is there anything in your view that the IDF is doing wrong? 

 

 

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY

[Liviu]

 

I wish Hamas would drop his weapons away so both the Arabs (from Gaza) and the Israelis (I did not say just "Jewish" because in Israel are living also Christians, Muslims, Jewish) will continue to live in peace.

 

I agree - with the proviso that Israel also gives up its blockade and land grab.
 

 

 

If and I say again "IF" ever, the arabs will be honest and will respect the peace, I believe that Israel will try to do the best.

I even remember when Israel left Gaza, that they tried to help the local authority to build and train a local police so they can manage their own problems.

Guess what, some members of the police force, started to use the guns against Israel. :-)

 

So, when we speak about giving up the blockade and some other SF requirements, one must gain confidence of the other ... and in this case, Israel never started to attack Gaza without a strong reason.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Liviu

[Liviu]

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY

 

 

Something to remember from this video, at time 2:10: "MISTAKES ARE NOT WAR CRIMES" ... "THEY ARE CONSEQUENCES OF HAMAS WAY OF FIGHTING"...

[kblaze]

 

 

This is not why the civilian casualty count is high, it's because Hamas is using civilians as human shields, while the IDF is continuously doing everything it possibly can to inform civilians to evacuate before it reaches the area to search for rockets and factories (and now also terror tunnels built underneath houses): They throw hundreds of thousands of leaflets from airplane informing of their approach, they place hundred of thousands of calls, send SMS text messages, and very powerful audio announcement systems.

 

....I'm not even going to dispute what you are saying...I just thought I could at least get you to acknowledge that the missiles being fired may be too powerful for an urban environment...im just trying to find some common ground to build on...is there anything in your view that the IDF is doing wrong? 

 

 

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

 

 

And this is why peace is never going to come. Intransigence. 

[CBR250]

 

 

I wish Hamas would drop his weapons away so both the Arabs (from Gaza) and the Israelis (I did not say just "Jewish" because in Israel are living also Christians, Muslims, Jewish) will continue to live in peace.

 

I agree - with the proviso that Israel also gives up its blockade and land grab.
 

 

 

Israel does not grab any land in Gaza since 2005. It has the right to block entry to Israel from anyone, like any sovereign country, and just as you have the right to block strangers from entering your own home.

Before you say that, yes, they also allow block the sea access beyond 3km from shore, but that's because the Palestinians were using the sea to smuggle arms from Iran and Hizbullah and in any case Israel let the Palestinians get anything they import from the sea, through its own ports, after promptly being security inspected.

Gaza has another border, with Egypt, their Arab "brothers", which Egypt blocks, as they also have the right to do. I wonder why nobody complains about Egypt.

 

 

Israel are not grabbing land in Gaza. They are grabbing land on the West Bank, as you well know. Stop being dim and address the issues. Don't try and slip them aside by blathering. The war on Gaza is linked to Israel's desire to keep Fatah and Hamas apart. The on-going "liitle war" in the West Bank (Hebron etc) is another part of this. The whole of the anti-Palestinian game that Israel so cynically plays is designed with the purpose of claiming more and more land in the West Bank. And pushing the theft of Palestinian property futher and further into histpry, in the hope that the question of compensation will never be pursued. I suspect Israel WANTS to occupy Palestine to prevent a 2 state solution. The last think the Zionists in Israel want are settled borders.

 

As an Israeli - or Jew with emotional attachment to Israel - stopping the deaths of IDF soldiers should be a higher priority than supporting the machinations of greedy and obsessed old men who have an unhealthy attachment to a supernatural being. As a human being, the deaths of Palestinian civilians should concern you enough to question the policies and practices of your elders that are leading to this situation. That you don't question or indicate any concern for dying children unless they are Israeli reveals a total lack of empathy, the primary sign of a sociopath. Rather than concern for humanity, your concern appears to be only to obfuscate the reality of what is happening in Gaza, and trying to justify the out-of-control Israeli state. Unfortunately, I suspect these undesirable attributes are shared by many (thankfully not all) Israelis.

 

And I have touched on the Raffah issue elsewhere. Do you really have no understanding of what is happening between Hamas and Egypt? Do you really want the Raffah border opened? (I will answer for you.  No - Iyou are happy it is closed). But if you feel that the Egyptians are the real baddies for not opening the Raffah crossing, why don't you start a thread demanding that they do so?  Then you won't have to feel guilty about diverting anyone's attention from the discussion on this thread that concerns the real culprits of the Gaza tragedy - the right wing Zionists.

[CBR250]

 

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY

 

 

Something to remember from this video, at time 2:10: "MISTAKES ARE NOT WAR CRIMES" ... "THEY ARE CONSEQUENCES OF HAMAS WAY OF FIGHTING"...

 

 

Yes, yes. We know. And war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength
 

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

This is not why the civilian casualty count is high, it's because Hamas is using civilians as human shields, while the IDF is continuously doing everything it possibly can to inform civilians to evacuate before it reaches the area to search for rockets and factories (and now also terror tunnels built underneath houses): They throw hundreds of thousands of leaflets from airplane informing of their approach, they place hundred of thousands of calls, send SMS text messages, and very powerful audio announcement systems.

 

....I'm not even going to dispute what you are saying...I just thought I could at least get you to acknowledge that the missiles being fired may be too powerful for an urban environment...im just trying to find some common ground to build on...is there anything in your view that the IDF is doing wrong? 

 

 

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

 

 

And this is why peace is never going to come. Intransigence. 

 

 

I have no idea which Intransigence you refer to and I hope you are wrong and peace will eventually come.

Ultimately we are all equal human and must respect each other and learn to live together in harmony. Hatred due to skin color, ethnicity, gender, and beliefs is ridiculous in modern times. We are in the 21st century, not in the dark ages.

May peace come upon us all soon.

[Jay Sata]

 

I see the UN are considering war crimes charges.

 

pictures say more than words and this is what happens when you use modern battlefield weapons on civilianshttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702485/Israel-investigated-war-crimes-Gaza-UN-says.html

 

While continuously posting  photogenic photos of one side of the story can be very misleading, please also post some long length videos showing exactly how these unfortunate incidents occur in the first place, to put it more into context.

 

Nothing photogenic about those pictures my friend.

 

Take a look at some of the worlds newsites today and you will see many pictures like that. The IDF and the Israeli government cannot silence the worlds media.

 

Israel should have kept to the 1948 borders. Instead it has now taken 78% of the land in violation of the UN charter and Geneva convention plus many UN resolutions. The rest of Palestinian land is under siege and occupation.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

I see the UN are considering war crimes charges.

 

pictures say more than words and this is what happens when you use modern battlefield weapons on civilianshttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702485/Israel-investigated-war-crimes-Gaza-UN-says.html

 

While continuously posting  photogenic photos of one side of the story can be very misleading, please also post some long length videos showing exactly how these unfortunate incidents occur in the first place, to put it more into context.

 

Nothing photogenic about those pictures my friend.

 

Take a look at some of the worlds newsites today and you will see many pictures like that. The IDF and the Israeli government cannot silence the worlds media.

 

Israel should have kept to the 1948 borders. Instead it has now taken 78% of the land in violation of the UN charter and Geneva convention plus many UN resolutions. The rest of Palestinian land is under siege and occupation.

 

On the contrary, nobody tries to silence the media. I am expecting videos that speak much much louder than words and frozen-moment photos, and contribute a lot more context to the whole incident.

Nobody, including the IDF, is saying that there are no civilian casualties, as avoiding them while the Hamas is deliberately using them as human shields to protect its armed militants and weapons, is impossible.

The IDF, as I repeated countless times, and as you can see in the video I posted, is doing everything it can to evacuate all innocent civilians before it arrives, while the Hamas is doing anything they can to sacrifice them to die as SHAHIDS and have more photos to show in their Israel-de-legitimization propaganda.

 

Again, there is no occupation in Gaza, except for maybe Hamas' occupation. Israel and Egypt have the sovereign right to block their own borders from foreigners.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY

 

 

Something to remember from this video, at time 2:10: "MISTAKES ARE NOT WAR CRIMES" ... "THEY ARE CONSEQUENCES OF HAMAS WAY OF FIGHTING"...

 

 

Yes, yes. We know. And war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength
 

 

 

Wow, it's unbelievable how biased you are.

[kblaze]

I have no idea which Intransigence you refer to and I hope you are wrong and peace will eventually come.

Ultimately we are all equal human and must respect each other and learn to live together in harmony. Hatred due to skin color, ethnicity, gender, and beliefs is ridiculous in modern times. We are in the 21st century, not in the dark ages.

May peace come upon us all soon.

 

 

 

Refusing to find any fault in the IDF (and its not just you), is the intransigence I'm referring to.

[Pakboong]

Most people fail to understand that this conflict has a far reaching mechanism than the average person can understand, where by counties like Iran and Saudi Arabia and others  have a vast interests in the region 

be it ideological , tribal , or just self interests that only know to them,

Hamas is being funded, armed and supplied, and dictated largely by Iran a sate sponsoring terrorism,

so it's not only Israel-Hamas-Palestinians  fighting each other,  and it hasn't been like that for many years,

and until the big bosses in Teheran, Riyadh and Doha will say otherwise blood will continue to be shad

and mothers will continue to cry on both side of the divides...

 

Don't you seriously believe that if Hamas was armed by Iran, there would be plenty of lethal weapons and not a bunch of worthless bottle rockets? Iran has at a least a dozen Surface to Air and many capable guided other such weapons and Hamas just never seems to have the good stuff.  Now, both sides are taking the risk of smuggling and nothing of any use ever seems to materialize. I just have a hard time believing the Iran boogie man when nothing happens of any serious consequence. The tooth fairy story is almost more believable.

 

I ask this question a lot and the answers are much. I expect that Iran would just love to try out its lethal weaponry against what many believe as their arch enemy. Knocking down Israeli jets and rotary wing aircraft with shoulder fired sams of which Iran makes two models would be a great deal of fun. Somebody will likely post that they heard that 2 weeks ago, they heard a rumor that Hamas fired at some Israeli jets. Not really that believable. They have stock piled 10,000 rockets and not one of them is really lethal. Iran can do l a much better job than that.
 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Pakboong

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

I wish Hamas would drop his weapons away so both the Arabs (from Gaza) and the Israelis (I did not say just "Jewish" because in Israel are living also Christians, Muslims, Jewish) will continue to live in peace.

 

I agree - with the proviso that Israel also gives up its blockade and land grab.
 

 

 

Israel does not grab any land in Gaza since 2005. It has the right to block entry to Israel from anyone, like any sovereign country, and just as you have the right to block strangers from entering your own home.

Before you say that, yes, they also allow block the sea access beyond 3km from shore, but that's because the Palestinians were using the sea to smuggle arms from Iran and Hizbullah and in any case Israel let the Palestinians get anything they import from the sea, through its own ports, after promptly being security inspected.

Gaza has another border, with Egypt, their Arab "brothers", which Egypt blocks, as they also have the right to do. I wonder why nobody complains about Egypt.

 

 

Israel are not grabbing land in Gaza. They are grabbing land on the West Bank, as you well know. Stop being dim and address the issues. Don't try and slip them aside by blathering. The war on Gaza is linked to Israel's desire to keep Fatah and Hamas apart. The on-going "liitle war" in the West Bank (Hebron etc) is another part of this. The whole of the anti-Palestinian game that Israel so cynically plays is designed with the purpose of claiming more and more land in the West Bank. And pushing the theft of Palestinian property futher and further into histpry, in the hope that the question of compensation will never be pursued. I suspect Israel WANTS to occupy Palestine to prevent a 2 state solution. The last think the Zionists in Israel want are settled borders.

 

As an Israeli - or Jew with emotional attachment to Israel - stopping the deaths of IDF soldiers should be a higher priority than supporting the machinations of greedy and obsessed old men who have an unhealthy attachment to a supernatural being. As a human being, the deaths of Palestinian civilians should concern you enough to question the policies and practices of your elders that are leading to this situation. That you don't question or indicate any concern for dying children unless they are Israeli reveals a total lack of empathy, the primary sign of a sociopath. Rather than concern for humanity, your concern appears to be only to obfuscate the reality of what is happening in Gaza, and trying to justify the out-of-control Israeli state. Unfortunately, I suspect these undesirable attributes are shared by many (thankfully not all) Israelis.

 

And I have touched on the Raffah issue elsewhere. Do you really have no understanding of what is happening between Hamas and Egypt? Do you really want the Raffah border opened? (I will answer for you.  No - Iyou are happy it is closed). But if you feel that the Egyptians are the real baddies for not opening the Raffah crossing, why don't you start a thread demanding that they do so?  Then you won't have to feel guilty about diverting anyone's attention from the discussion on this thread that concerns the real culprits of the Gaza tragedy - the right wing Zionists.

 

 

The real culprits of the Gaza tragedy is having 20%-25% fanatic Muslims there, led by Hamas and other terror organizations, who declare Israel has no right to exist and that that they will fight it in JIHAD to get it all back, actively doing so by firing rockets into Israel civilian territories.

Please enlighten us. What is happening between Hamas and Egypt that will make me want the Raffah border closed?

[dr_lucas]

 

Most people fail to understand that this conflict has a far reaching mechanism than the average person can understand, where by counties like Iran and Saudi Arabia and others  have a vast interests in the region 

be it ideological , tribal , or just self interests that only know to them,

Hamas is being funded, armed and supplied, and dictated largely by Iran a sate sponsoring terrorism,

so it's not only Israel-Hamas-Palestinians  fighting each other,  and it hasn't been like that for many years,

and until the big bosses in Teheran, Riyadh and Doha will say otherwise blood will continue to be shad

and mothers will continue to cry on both side of the divides...

 

Don't you seriously believe that if Hamas was armed by Iran, there would be plenty of lethal weapons and not a bunch of worthless bottle rockets? Iran has at a least a dozen Surface to Air and many capable guided other such weapons and Hamas just never seems to have the good stuff.  Now, both sides are taking the risk of smuggling and nothing of any use ever seems to materialize. I just have a hard time believing the Iran boogie man when nothing happens of any serious consequence. The tooth fairy story is almost more believable.

 

I ask this question a lot and the answers are much. I expect that Iran would just love to try out its lethal weaponry against what many believe as their arch enemy. Knocking down Israeli jets and rotary wing aircraft with shoulder fired sams of which Iran makes two models would be a great deal of fun. Somebody will likely post that they heard that 2 weeks ago, they heard a rumor that Hamas fired at some Israeli jets. Not really that believable. They have stock piled 10,000 rockets and not one of them is really lethal. Iran can do l a much better job than that.
 

 

 

Luckily for Israel it has quite good intelligence agencies that help it intercept such Iranian weapons: http://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/2014/03/10/news-events/israel-intercepts-iranian-weapons-ship-netanyahu-rips-world-self-deception/

Israel's airplanes also has state-of-the-art protection systems to defend them from such surface-to-air missiles,  RPGs and rocket attacks.

Hamas rockets are not a thing to belittle, they are quite powerful with a long range. Luckily for Israel - it has a state-of-the-art defense system (90% accurate) the "iron-dome", which intercepts the vast majority of rockets shot by Hamas, while the rest fall in the sea or non-populated lands.

[simple1]

 

 

 

The hospital is located in the Erez border crossing between Gaza to Israel, not in Israeli territory. The Gazan are being evacuated by the IDF, the PA ambulances, the red-cross and other humanitarian agencies that operate there. I know that because I just came back from the Erez border crossing a week ago.

The attacked Waffa hospital was hosting armed terrorists (which used it to hide from and continuously attacked the IDF) and weapons:

 

 

Is this the hospital you are referring to?

 

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/IDF-sets-up-field-hospital-at-Erez-border-crossing-for-injured-Palestinians-363541

 

 

That's the one: http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/CFOI/gaza_field_hospital.jpg

And this: http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/07/21/idf-field-hospital-gaza-border-treating-palestinians/

 

 

From the JP article the Field Hospital went operational on 20/07 and setup to assist Gazan civilians and I suppose triage assessment for further treatment in Israeli hospitals; all good.

 

Perhaps you were exaggerating with your claim of 100s of Israeli doctors at this facility?

 

[Liviu]

 

 

 

Perhaps you were exaggerating with your claim of 100s of Israeli doctors at this facility?

 

 

 

 

Why anything good must be an exaggeration ?

[dr_lucas]

 

I have no idea which Intransigence you refer to and I hope you are wrong and peace will eventually come.

Ultimately we are all equal human and must respect each other and learn to live together in harmony. Hatred due to skin color, ethnicity, gender, and beliefs is ridiculous in modern times. We are in the 21st century, not in the dark ages.

May peace come upon us all soon.

 

 

 

Refusing to find any fault in the IDF (and its not just you), is the intransigence I'm referring to.

 

 

I am not refusing to find any fault. The IDF is an army, a very moral one, which does what most armies do, follow what its government tells it to do, doing its best to follow orders while preventing hurting civilians. I don't see anything wrong in the WAY they do things, on the contrary, it sometimes seem the IDF go out of their way to not hurt civilians, so much so that they sometimes pay with their own life doing that.

That said, this has nothing to do with peace. Peace is not decided or influenced by armies, it is decided by governments, so it's not related if I see fault in the IDF way or not. I want just peace in that region more than most people I know.

[Liviu]

even there are, say, 36% of Israeli doctors, who gives a shit? It doesn't matter. The whole point is about Israel helping the injured. 

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

 

The hospital is located in the Erez border crossing between Gaza to Israel, not in Israeli territory. The Gazan are being evacuated by the IDF, the PA ambulances, the red-cross and other humanitarian agencies that operate there. I know that because I just came back from the Erez border crossing a week ago.

The attacked Waffa hospital was hosting armed terrorists (which used it to hide from and continuously attacked the IDF) and weapons:

 

 

Is this the hospital you are referring to?

 

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/IDF-sets-up-field-hospital-at-Erez-border-crossing-for-injured-Palestinians-363541

 

 

That's the one: http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/CFOI/gaza_field_hospital.jpg

And this: http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/07/21/idf-field-hospital-gaza-border-treating-palestinians/

 

 

From the JP article the Field Hospital went operational on 20/07 and setup to assist Gazan civilians and I suppose triage assessment for further treatment in Israeli hospitals; all good.

 

Perhaps you were exaggerating with your claim of 100s of Israeli doctors at this facility?

 

 

 

The JP article is incorrect, as the hospital was operational a week before that. It was officially announced by the red-cross and the IDF as operational on 20/07.

I was not exaggerating at all, there are 100s of Israeli doctors there. Admittedly I didn't do head count, and there were also many paramedics and nurses there, but you are just nitpicking now when you are discussing the exact number.

Edited July 24, 2014 by dr_lucas

[simple1]

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you were exaggerating with your claim of 100s of Israeli doctors at this facility?

 

 

 

 

Why anything good must be an exaggeration ?

 

 

As I said good on Israel to establish this facility. However, if possible seeking facts, not unsubstantiated claims

[kblaze]

 

I am not refusing to find any fault. The IDF is an army, a very moral one, which does what most armies do, follow what its government tells it to do, doing its best to follow orders while preventing hurting civilians. I don't see anything wrong in the WAY they do things, on the contrary, it sometimes seem the IDF go out of their way to not hurt civilians, so much so that they sometimes pay with their own life doing that.

That said, this has nothing to do with peace. Peace is not decided or influenced by armies, it is decided by governments, so it's not related if I see fault in the IDF way or not. I want just peace in that region more than most people I know.

 

 

 

The reason I asked if you can find any fault in the IDF is that the current global outrage at the civilian death count in Gaza is centered at some of the IDFs methods (yes I know some are just anti-semites, but lets strip those out). The unfortunate effect of this is that for some, the outrage transforms into hate. That hate then very often trickles down to the Israeli government, as well as to its supporters.

 

Now I believe the more moderate critics (which I consider myself - though I know many find it more convenient to just cluster everyone in a big "anti-Israel" camp) are the key to placating this hate. I'm talking about critics on both sides and hate on both sides. These people must make concessions (i defend the Gazans but despise Hamas and the fact they got 44%+ of the votes) otherwise the wall between the sides will never be brought down. Once a side sees that the other side understands just even ONE of their complaints, a tiny link is established. 

 

When I narrowed it down to just talking about the payload of the missiles, that was the concession I was hoping to get from you. But you brushed it aside and gave me the standard talking points I have read time and again. I'm not saying they are false talking points, mind you, just that they were not related to payload of a missile.

 

I understand the "f*** the world", no apologies mentality. "F*** the UN/World, Israel has the right to defend itself in whatever way it chooses!"

 

One of my biggest shames in my life was my vehement defense of why the US needed to invade Iraq. I literally said "f*** the world, Saddam has WMDs and the US is well within its rights to defend its middle east interests". I remain right-wing fiscally and on some other issues, but the end result of the Iraq debacle demolished my "f*** the world - the US knows what its doing" mentality.

 

Acknowledging a fault in one's side lifts one out from behind the intransigent wall of moral superiority (which allows for no "common-ground" discourse - I mean why negotiate if you are faultless?) to a more human middle ground where positive discussion and negotiation can thrive.

[Asiantravel]

It  always seems from the statements issued by Israel that the whole of the rest of the world represented in the United Nations  are wrong and it is always Israel who is always right

Surely the way to reduce anti-Semitism feelings growing is to listen to world opinion at least, just sometimes?

 

 

 The Israeli leader was deeply critical of a vote by the UN Human Rights Council for an official investigation into alleged war crimes in Gaza, describing the decision as "grotesque" and "a travesty of justice".

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28458377

Edited July 24, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Ulysses G.]

The IDF doesn't blow up entire neighborhood blocks, that's just over-exaggeration.

It's kind of you to be so diplomatic, but it is actually a blatant lie.

[Ulysses G.]

It  always seems from the statements issued by Israel that the whole of the rest of the world represented in the United Nations  are wrong and it is always Israel who is always right.

It is pretty obvious to anyone that examines their record that the modern UN have victimized Israel, while ignoring other, much worse behavior.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU#t=49
 

[CBR250]

 

 

 

I know they are doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties, considering the complexity of the situation, and I know for a fact the IDF is probably one of the most moral armies in the world:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY

 

 

Something to remember from this video, at time 2:10: "MISTAKES ARE NOT WAR CRIMES" ... "THEY ARE CONSEQUENCES OF HAMAS WAY OF FIGHTING"...

 

 

Yes, yes. We know. And war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength
 

 

 

Wow, it's unbelievable how biased you are.

 

No, just quoting from a source you obviously don't know. There are some holes in your education. George Orwell's "1984" accurately forecast the media campaigns of Zionists.

Edited July 24, 2014 by CBR250

[simple1]

 

 

 

 

The hospital is located in the Erez border crossing between Gaza to Israel, not in Israeli territory. The Gazan are being evacuated by the IDF, the PA ambulances, the red-cross and other humanitarian agencies that operate there. I know that because I just came back from the Erez border crossing a week ago.

 

The attacked Waffa hospital was hosting armed terrorists (which used it to hide from and continuously attacked the IDF) and weapons:

 

 

Is this the hospital you are referring to?

 

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/IDF-sets-up-field-hospital-at-Erez-border-crossing-for-injured-Palestinians-363541

 

 

That's the one: http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/CFOI/gaza_field_hospital.jpg

And this: http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/07/21/idf-field-hospital-gaza-border-treating-palestinians/

 

From the JP article the Field Hospital went operational on 20/07 and setup to assist Gazan civilians and I suppose triage assessment for further treatment in Israeli hospitals; all good.

 

Perhaps you were exaggerating with your claim of 100s of Israeli doctors at this facility?

The JP article is incorrect, as the hospital was operational a week before that. It was officially announced by the red-cross and the IDF as operational on 20/07.

I was not exaggerating at all, there are 100s of Israeli doctors there. Admittedly I didn't do head count, and there were also many paramedics and nurses there, but you are just nitpicking now when you are discussing the exact number.

 

 

Post removed to enabe response.

 

I can accept a news report can be inaccurate, but it does quote IDF, again maybe inaccurate reporting.

 

"The IDF announced on Sunday that it was setting up a field hospital at the Erez border crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip. The field hospital was set to begin functioning at 8 p.m. on Sunday."

 

Forgive me, but I still find it a real challenge to believe 100s of doctors are allocated to a facility dedicated to ”serve mainly women and children and will include a delivery room”. If you insist it's true so be it.

 

Are there that many civilians expected to be transported to the Field Hospital for triage & treatment? If so confirms the reported volume of civilian women and child casualties that some are busily denying and saying its’ just Palestinian propaganda.

 

Again I say it's good that Israel is providing medical services for "enemy civilians". I would not expect otherwise; it is standard practice for democratic countries with professional armed forces.