Water tank height to provide adequate pressure under gravity

[mike44]

We are subject to occasional power cuts which means we lose water supply as our house is fed from a well with a pumped supply to a water tank at ground level and a further pump from the water tank to the house.

We plan to install a water tank on a tower to provide water supply under gravity (and hence to provide a water supply reserve, until the tank runs dry, during a power cut).

The maximum water pipe run will be about 30m from the tank and the highest fitting will be a shower about 2m above ground level.

We wish to minimise the tower height for visual amenity and cost reasons.

How high should the water tank be to provide adequate water pressure?

[trogers]

Bottom of tank 10m above faucet gives 1 bar pressure.

Edited July 21, 2014 by trogers

[NeverSure]

If you're American or Canadian, 30 feet from the shower head to the bottom of the tank will give you 13 psi. Most powered water systems give about 40 psi, needing about a 100 foot tower.

If you just want some water flow such as to fill a bucket, any amount of lift will work because water will run downhill all day long.

Edited July 21, 2014 by NeverSure

[trogers]

Water level in tank, every 10 meters above tapping point gives 1 bar. 2 bar is acceptable.pressure. so water level in tank should be 22 meters above ground level. Be sure you use sufficient diameter tubing., and remove inside burrs!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think 1 bar works for a normal home, unless there is a rain shower...lol.

[Naam]

instead of an ugly tower you might consider a back-up power supply by inverter and battery. cost approximately 15-18,000 Baht depending on your pump's capacity.

note: a 12m high tower will give you 1 bar pressure, i.e. you have to run in circles when showering to get wet.

[Naam]

Water level in tank, every 10 meters above tapping point gives 1 bar. 2 bar is acceptable.pressure. so water level in tank should be 22 meters above ground level. Be sure you use sufficient diameter tubing., and remove inside burrs!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think 1 bar works for a normal home, unless there is a rain shower...lol.

water heater won't work with 1 bar!

[wayned]

"If you're American or Canadian, 30 feet from the shower head to the bottom of the tank will give you 13 psi."

What's the difference if you're not American or Canadian?

[lopburi3]

You may not measure in feet and psi.

Even use of a boat bailing pump on 12v battery might be easier and cheaper to set up for low pressure. But Naam inverter and power supply for that would not require any plumbing change and supply same pressure as normal and should be cheaper and better than tower.

As mentioned 1 bar is a dribble rather than a flow in my view.

[mike44]

Thanks for the helpful and prompt replies.

It's back to the drawing board as I had not realised that the tower would need to be more than 10m high to obtain adequate pressure. Such a tower would be wholly out of place.

It looks like we need to consider the alternative of a back-up power supply.

In this regard any thoughts on how the inverter and battery option compares to a diesel generator with automatic changeover on loss of mains power?

[Water Buffalo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

instead of an ugly tower you might consider a back-up power supply by inverter and battery. cost approximately 15-18,000 Baht depending on your pump's capacity.

note: a 12m high tower will give you 1 bar pressure, i.e. you have to run in circles when showering to get wet.

Cheaper than a tower too.

We were quoted 70k for 6 meter tower...hmmmmmm. We just went with the automatics pump instead for 6k. We are not often troubled by powercuts, we shower the old fashioned way.

[Daffy D]

We built a water tower with the bottom of the tank at 4mt. (13ft)

As already stated this give enough pressure for general use but will not work the hot sower unit, for that we had to fit a pump and now get good pressure from all the outlets and great hot shower.

For anyone interested, at the 2 mt. point, half way up the tower I laid a floor with railings round for the kids to use as a Davy Crocket fort or Fairy princess castle.

On the bottom section I was going to build a garden shed but found room for that somewhere else so installed a big 8inch rain shower head connected directly to the tank above so the kids can play in a shower of cool water on a hot day. Also good for me to cool off after a sweaty morning working round the house.

For the eagle eyed, yes the tower does bend outward towards the top

Not a design feature just another example of Thainess.

Sometimes I wonder how these things are managed. I'm betting if you asked someone to build a water tower that curved outwards toward the top they would probably tell you "no can"

[Naam]

Thanks for the helpful and prompt replies.

It's back to the drawing board as I had not realised that the tower would need to be more than 10m high to obtain adequate pressure. Such a tower would be wholly out of place.

It looks like we need to consider the alternative of a back-up power supply.

In this regard any thoughts on how the inverter and battery option compares to a diesel generator with automatic changeover on loss of mains power?

an automatic change-over is quite expensive and a manual generator start at 03.00 a.m. when you want to flush a toilet is not exactly enhancing quality of life

[Naam]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

instead of an ugly tower you might consider a back-up power supply by inverter and battery. cost approximately 15-18,000 Baht depending on your pump's capacity.

note: a 12m high tower will give you 1 bar pressure, i.e. you have to run in circles when showering to get wet.

Cheaper than a tower too.

We were quoted 70k for 6 meter tower...hmmmmmm. We just went with the automatics pump instead for 6k. We are not often troubled by powercuts, we shower the old fashioned way.

the OP has a pump; his problems are power cuts.

[Crossy]

Thanks for the helpful and prompt replies.

It's back to the drawing board as I had not realised that the tower would need to be more than 10m high to obtain adequate pressure. Such a tower would be wholly out of place.

It looks like we need to consider the alternative of a back-up power supply.

In this regard any thoughts on how the inverter and battery option compares to a diesel generator with automatic changeover on loss of mains power?

an automatic change-over is quite expensive and a manual generator start at 03.00 a.m. when you want to flush a toilet is not exactly enhancing quality of life

If you're a bit handy you can create an automatic start and transfer for a reasonable cost, have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671221-build-a-low-cost-semi-automatic-generator-transfer-switch/

[IMHO]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thanks for the helpful and prompt replies.

It's back to the drawing board as I had not realised that the tower would need to be more than 10m high to obtain adequate pressure. Such a tower would be wholly out of place.

It looks like we need to consider the alternative of a back-up power supply.

In this regard any thoughts on how the inverter and battery option compares to a diesel generator with automatic changeover on loss of mains power?

How much it costs depends on what you want to run.. Just the pump? if so, how many watts is it, and what sort of runtime would a UPS need to supply? Assuming you just want to run the pump, I cannot see any diesel generator being cheaper than a charger/battery/inverter setup - either to install or to run.

We built a water tower with the bottom of the tank at 4mt. (13ft)

For anyone else thinking of doing something like this - check your pump specs carefully - most standard pumps won't like a tank head much higher than about 2M. Some will have an additional spring you can fit to increase the tank head height, but very few I've seen will like the 5M+ in this poster's garden.

Edited July 21, 2014 by IMHO

[trogers]

Water level in tank, every 10 meters above tapping point gives 1 bar. 2 bar is acceptable.pressure. so water level in tank should be 22 meters above ground level. Be sure you use sufficient diameter tubing., and remove inside burrs!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think 1 bar works for a normal home, unless there is a rain shower...lol.

water heater won't work with 1 bar!

He has a pump, but will not work in a power blackout. Neither will the heater work during this time.

The 1-bar will still fill the bucket for bathing with a scoop. And hot water can be heated by the gas stove...lol

[puuchai299]

How about an additional ground level spare tank,put the pump from the tanks to the house on a plug.buy a small generator and plug the pump into that when the powers off.The small generator won't be any good for hot water,but you'd still be able to pump cool water throughout the house at normal pressure until the electrics back on.

A much cheaper and easy option,the small generator could also be used for a couple of fans and a low wattage light or 2..

[Naam]

Water level in tank, every 10 meters above tapping point gives 1 bar. 2 bar is acceptable.pressure. so water level in tank should be 22 meters above ground level. Be sure you use sufficient diameter tubing., and remove inside burrs!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think 1 bar works for a normal home, unless there is a rain shower...lol.

water heater won't work with 1 bar!

He has a pump, but will not work in a power blackout. Neither will the heater work during this time.

The 1-bar will still fill the bucket for bathing with a scoop. And hot water can be heated by the gas stove...lol

not to forget that he could generate electricity with a hamster and a hamster wheel

[Naam]

How about an additional ground level spare tank,put the pump from the tanks to the house on a plug.buy a small generator and plug the pump into that when the powers off.The small generator won't be any good for hot water,but you'd still be able to pump cool water throughout the house at normal pressure until the electrics back on.

A much cheaper and easy option,the small generator could also be used for a couple of fans and a low wattage light or 2..

who will start the small generator when he or his family want to flush a toilet in the middle of the night?

[puuchai299]

How about an additional ground level spare tank,put the pump from the tanks to the house on a plug.buy a small generator and plug the pump into that when the powers off.The small generator won't be any good for hot water,but you'd still be able to pump cool water throughout the house at normal pressure until the electrics back on.

A much cheaper and easy option,the small generator could also be used for a couple of fans and a low wattage light or 2..

who will start the small generator when he or his family want to flush a toilet in the middle of the night?

Nobody,a bucket of water or 2 will suffice if it's that important to flush a toilet in the middle of the night,

[canopy]

Why not get a pressure tank? Cheap. Nothing unsightly. Problem solved.

[trogers]

Why not get a pressure tank? Cheap. Nothing unsightly. Problem solved.

Suitable for a couple of toilet flushes, but not half a day of water consumption during a power blackout.

Seems the traditional Thai way of having stored water in an urn works best, as this was the way of living before they even had electricity.

Edited July 23, 2014 by trogers

[lopburi3]

But it could solve the midnight flush issue. And the generator would recharge at another time.

[trogers]

But it could solve the midnight flush issue. And the generator would recharge at another time.

A gravity tank can give more storage capacity at a cheaper price.

[canopy]

Suitable for a couple of toilet flushes, but not half a day of water consumption during a power blackout.

Not true. Pressure tanks can be sized to suit ones needs.

[David48]

Seems the traditional Thai way of having stored water in an urn works best, as this was the way of living before they even had electricity.

... and that's what we have at the Farm.

No 'running water' there.

Mind you, I do heat the water a bit for myself in winter and leave a bit for the youngest girl ... she's reed thin and needs a bit of warming up.

Life as it was 100 years ago is as it is now at the Farm.

You get used to it.

Good for the Soul.

[lopburi3]

Most of us would prefer to live as most people do today rather than 100 years ago (even if we almost date back to that time).

If it is a choice than a reason but if affordable electric and pumps are today. As for stand pipe that makes sense for a town but not so much for a single dwelling if there are other choices as just too high a tower to get good pressure and you will have to use a strong pump to get it into the tower tank - the the danger that can present in storms or for maintenance.

[Naam]

Thanks for the helpful and prompt replies.

It's back to the drawing board as I had not realised that the tower would need to be more than 10m high to obtain adequate pressure. Such a tower would be wholly out of place.

It looks like we need to consider the alternative of a back-up power supply.

In this regard any thoughts on how the inverter and battery option compares to a diesel generator with automatic changeover on loss of mains power?

an automatic change-over is quite expensive and a manual generator start at 03.00 a.m. when you want to flush a toilet is not exactly enhancing quality of life

If you're a bit handy you can create an automatic start and transfer for a reasonable cost, have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671221-build-a-low-cost-semi-automatic-generator-transfer-switch/

doesn't this transfer switch require a generator with electric start Crossy?

[Crossy]

doesn't this transfer switch require a generator with electric start Crossy?

It does, if you want the beast to start on power fail, there's several posts in the thread on how to modify a simple electric start genny to full auto.

The original intention was to just stop the beast when the power returned (which doesn't need an electric start unit), I got a bit carried away.

[Estrada]

Water level in tank, every 10 meters above tapping point gives 1 bar. 2 bar is acceptable.pressure. so water level in tank should be 22 meters above ground level. Be sure you use sufficient diameter tubing., and remove inside burrs!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think 1 bar works for a normal home, unless there is a rain shower...lol.

water heater won't work with 1 bar!

The question was about using a shower under gravity flow due to power failures. You forget that without electricity the water heater will not work at all!