Nsa/fbi Spying On Internet Traffic

[meom]

As for the "encrypted porn pictures", it is being done, but I doubt it is by terrorists though. I know that certain people are using that technology to track child porn on the internet, and a couple of child-porn rings have been busted in the past couple of years as a result.

The technology is not new and has been used in the internet porn industry, by hackers and other dubious groups for years. It's called steganography and the program will remove about 10% of the hundreds of thousands of bits that make up a high resolution image. The human eye does not notice the missing 10% which is then replaced by an embedded image sprinkled all over the cover image in a way that is undetectable.

With a proper decoding program the embedded image can be unscrambled after providing a password. It also works with audio whereby the least significant bits are removed and replaced by a embedded message.

One company specialized in detection software used to be Wetstone Technologies who had some contracts with the US Airforce end 1990's.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

(For a little background, read the Salon article reprinted here)

Now go to this Wired article here and read how to find out if traffic to a particular domain or mail exchanger is being re-routed through AT&T

Performing a tracert (in the Command Prompt window, which can be accessed from Start-Programs-Accessories in Windows) on several websites I own I discover that 1 is being rerouted through the AT&T substation in Dallas. I only use this domain email and it is the oldest of my domains. My other hosting accounts on the same server do not route through the AT&T substation. I've tried this about 10 times and that particular domain reaches the substation at about the 9-11th hop, while my other domains never do. Again, on the same server.

Yes, AT&T is a major internet backbone operator in the US. However, my webhost connects to the backbone after the AT&T substation for that domain. The other domains connect to the same backbone but skip the substation.

I happen to know that the AT&T/Bell surveillance substations in every region in the US is always in a building nextdoor to an FBI office. (I did some city work a few years ago, and we had to come up with contingency plans). I used to think this was just to make it easy for the FBI to communicate in case of an emergency, but now their relationship looks even more interesting because of these new developments.

(by the way, you can also type in "NETSTAT -P TCP" in the C prompt to see if your system is being monitored, by hackers, crackers, trojans, or otherwise)

So, your point is?

NETSTAT -P TCP just shows you any CURRENT TCP connections to your machines network interface. It doesn't infer if they are hackers. If your machine has been hacked or inflitrated it doesn't at all mean there is still an open connection. You have to be kidding right?

You might want to try a firewall package that does logging. UNIX systems are a lot better at this and have the universe of free tools. TCP Wrappers is a good free package. It will log any TCP connection to a syslog. These tools can begin your education of network security.

[francois]

hi'

We HAVE to accept this.

NO!

but a lot think that they have to!

where democracy, freedom of speech and so on gone in states?

the patriot act made a big change, and not for the best, or so it seems to be

francois

[Crushdepth]

NO!

but a lot think that they have to!

where democracy, freedom of speech and so on gone in states?

the patriot act made a big change, and not for the best, or so it seems to be

Hear hear...

I'd like to encrypt all my email just out of principle. Unfortunately encryption is useless unless your intended recipient also uses it.

Until encryption is included in a mainstream email client and implemented in a user-friendly and fairly transparent way it is unlikely to be adopted by the masses, so unfortunately the information free-for-all continues for any government that feels like invading your privacy.

Ever wondered why all internet traffic in Thailand has to go through CAT?

[h90]

Just don't say "bottom" or you will have the SS knocking on your door at 3a.m.

For this reason always keep some swastikas at home and the Internationale on CD if the KGB comes.

Heil

[Lannig]

NO!

Ever wondered why all internet traffic in Thailand has to go through CAT?

Wild speculation IMO. The main reason is $$$, CAT selling international bandwidth at 10x the market prices (with 1/10 of the reliability) to Thai ISPs by the grace of the monopoly.

Under the old legislation, only ISPs giving 30% free shares to CAT could connect to foreign uplink providers. Now things are becoming more flexible I think, and most of them have non-CAT international bandwidth pipes that they sell to leased line customers at premium price.

I don't think that the folks at CAT are doing any data analysis on network traffic. They probably wouldn't even be technically capable of doing this. They break their network routers every time they touch them...

--Lannig

[tigerbeer]

i got an idea.

maybe the US government can impose bans on internet services in the USA. u know like totally isolate themselves.

[Crushdepth]

Wild speculation IMO. The main reason is $$$, CAT selling international bandwidth at 10x the market prices (with 1/10 of the reliability) to Thai ISPs by the grace of the monopoly.

I agree that money is clearly one motivation (one of the key reasons the ISPs hate CAT), but I don't think it is the only one.

Another is the opportunity to impose sudden and draconian censorship (and I'm not talking about the current restrictions on porn). In the event of some ermm...'political instability'...how long do you reckon it would take the government to lock down the internet?

It may be futile, but they will try.

maybe the US government can impose bans on internet services in the USA. u know like totally isolate themselves.

That's not a bad idea...how about a big fence?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Wild speculation IMO. The main reason is $$$, CAT selling international bandwidth at 10x the market prices (with 1/10 of the reliability) to Thai ISPs by the grace of the monopoly.

I agree that money is clearly one motivation (one of the key reasons the ISPs hate CAT), but I don't think it is the only one.

Another is the opportunity to impose sudden and draconian censorship (and I'm not talking about the current restrictions on porn). In the event of some ermm...'political instability'...how long do you reckon it would take the government to lock down the internet?

It may be futile, but they will try.

maybe the US government can impose bans on internet services in the USA. u know like totally isolate themselves.

That's not a bad idea...how about a big fence?

why wait for the US to isolate itself on the net. Not likely. Go ahead and configure your firewall to block all traffic to and from any US domains. No chance of your packets being snooped then. That will teach us fiber optic yankees whose boss.

[Crushdepth]

Take a chill pill, this is not a US-bashing thread, it is legitimate criticism of the widespread and undeniable abuse of electronic privacy initiated in large part by the US government and a view widely held by respectable, high-profile (US) cryptographers.

The 'fence' reference was a bit of sarcasm on my part on the recent decision to 'fence off' the Mexican border. Humour, nothing more. Don't take it personally. You seen any of the docs on the vigilante fence builders? Kind of funny and sad at the same time.

[kayo]

Bring ´em on. If they can´t find an old man on a kydney dialysis machine hiding in a cave, I´m really not worried.

Brilliant !

Thanks I was hopinbg somebody would get that!

It's............snip for brevity, or boredom, or something..... .

As for Kayo's post, yes, keywords like those would cause your email to be "flagged" by the sniffer program, if it went through one of the US servers connected to the program. After being flagged, a low-grade staffer would review the email and determine if it bears further investigation, or in Kayo's case, just result in having his email address added to every spam list in the country !

And OBJECTION.... SPECUALTION.... Struck

Good thing I didn't mention that I run a bar in a certain Central American country, and routinely use Kerryd's ID to post stuff that I don't want associated with my name. That could have been embarassing !

Kayo

hah! Nice try! BTW, you mentioned the key words, CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRY... That´s enough for alarm bells to ring already.....

and Kerry.. If you are true... then I guess I got double the number of LAST WORDS!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Seriously though... yeah, I thought, once upon a time about being preoccupied about things like these, but the thing is... I don´t really give a flying f.cuk at a rolling doughnut anymore. I am gonna enjoy things legal and none, cos I live with respect and lvoe for others I do not treat anybody bad, nor killnor maim. I may indulge in some illegalities. I don´t deal in them. I don´t owe much anywhere.

If I were to be preoccupied by every little risk, I´d have to stay under my bed all day every day.

I´ll just keep living man. If they come after me, they come after me. They´d be wasting their time though. Chacnes are, they have far more important things to do than to trace me down.

[Lannig]

Wild speculation IMO. The main reason is $$$, CAT selling international bandwidth at 10x the market prices (with 1/10 of the reliability) to Thai ISPs by the grace of the monopoly.

I agree that money is clearly one motivation (one of the key reasons the ISPs hate CAT), but I don't think it is the only one.

Another is the opportunity to impose sudden and draconian censorship (and I'm not talking about the current restrictions on porn). In the event of some ermm...'political instability'...how long do you reckon it would take the government to lock down the internet?

It may be futile, but they will try.

The current filtering is done by the ISPs themselves, based on the directions received from the MofICT.

Hence the uneven filtering one can observe. They all do redirect requests hitting the blacklist to a common page

at the MofICT, but the actual filtering is done by themselves.

Technically that's the only way, since most ISPs (the big ones anyway) have links to private uplink providers (Singtel, Cable & Wireless etc.).

--Lannig

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Take a chill pill, this is not a US-bashing thread, it is legitimate criticism of the widespread and undeniable abuse of electronic privacy initiated in large part by the US government and a view widely held by respectable, high-profile (US) cryptographers.

The 'fence' reference was a bit of sarcasm on my part on the recent decision to 'fence off' the Mexican border. Humour, nothing more. Don't take it personally. You seen any of the docs on the vigilante fence builders? Kind of funny and sad at the same time.

its a legitamate right and necessity for all governments to monitor and regulate its communication infrastructure. I am in Thailand now and for example and they censor far more than the US. There are a lot of criminal and security reasons for all governments to monitor and police public networks. In the past the internet was more a fledging technology but now its becoming so mainstream its affects all aspects of commerce and information. The US is at the forefront of monitoring and policing just like they were at the forefront of developing the internet. What does that prove? The internet is not the wild west anymore. Most if not all governments will do this in the future as most commerce and information exchange will migrate to the public networks.

[fourbaht]

its a legitamate right and necessity for all governments to monitor and regulate its communication infrastructure.

Are you for real? if so you are one sad dude or just a red neck who thinks being patriotic is more important than civil liberty..

Now you Yankees can flame me all you like but just remember you sow the seeds you reap the harvest and if you care to look back in your very short history you will see that the only reason you have been crapped on is because you fed the crappers with prune juice while it suited you. Who sponsored the Taliban? and on and on and on.

I once stood in speaker’s corner in Hyde Park listening to a guy who called himself Lord Peter, a funny guy who liked to make a mockery out of the Americans in the audience; he said "when it comes to history you Americans just have to take our word for it"

I find it staggering that as one of the worlds youngest countries with very little culture of your own you have all of the answers to the worlds cultural and political problems.

Guys you are on borrowed time, people have your card marked and no longer look up to you any more and never will as long as you have a religious fanatic at the helm.

Thats my Fourbahts worth...

[sbk]

its a legitamate right and necessity for all governments to monitor and regulate its communication infrastructure.

Are you for real? if so you are one sad dude or just a red neck who thinks being patriotic is more important than civil liberty..

Now you Yankees can flame me all you like but just remember you sow the seeds you reap the harvest and if you care to look back in your very short history you will see that the only reason you have been crapped on is because you fed the crappers with prune juice while it suited you. Who sponsored the Taliban? and on and on and on.

I once stood in speaker’s corner in Hyde Park listening to a guy who called himself Lord Peter, a funny guy who liked to make a mockery out of the Americans in the audience; he said "when it comes to history you Americans just have to take our word for it"

I find it staggering that as one of the worlds youngest countries with very little culture of your own you have all of the answers to the worlds cultural and political problems.

Guys you are on borrowed time, people have your card marked and no longer look up to you any more and never will as long as you have a religious fanatic at the helm.

Thats my Fourbahts worth...

Seems you need to study your recent history a bit better . There are quite a few countries that are much younger than the US and at 230 years old hardly qualifies as one of the youngest.

Regardless, it is all off this rather bizarre topic.

[fourbaht]

its a legitamate right and necessity for all governments to monitor and regulate its communication infrastructure.

Are you for real? if so you are one sad dude or just a red neck who thinks being patriotic is more important than civil liberty..

Now you Yankees can flame me all you like but just remember you sow the seeds you reap the harvest and if you care to look back in your very short history you will see that the only reason you have been crapped on is because you fed the crappers with prune juice while it suited you. Who sponsored the Taliban? and on and on and on.

I once stood in speaker’s corner in Hyde Park listening to a guy who called himself Lord Peter, a funny guy who liked to make a mockery out of the Americans in the audience; he said "when it comes to history you Americans just have to take our word for it"

I find it staggering that as one of the worlds youngest countries with very little culture of your own you have all of the answers to the worlds cultural and political problems.

Guys you are on borrowed time, people have your card marked and no longer look up to you any more and never will as long as you have a religious fanatic at the helm.

Thats my Fourbahts worth...

Seems you need to study your recent history a bit better . There are quite a few countries that are much younger than the US and at 230 years old hardly qualifies as one of the youngest.

Regardless, it is all off this rather bizarre topic.

And you need glasses my dear... "one of the worlds youngest countries" Not the youngest and yes at 230 years old you are relative newcomers compared to the numerous cultures you feel it is ok to have destroyed or manipulated for your own gain and always in the disguise of democracy.

But yes you are correct it is off topic, feel free to open somewhere else if you would like to discuss your so called great nations errors.

[penzman]

Just to let them know, the Warren commission was all wrong, I shot Kennedy. May I add that Oswald was a lousy shot.

[kayo]

ah... <deleted>.ck off, I´m sick of people trying to take credit for my actions.

I shot JFK, and the POPE. And I am PLANNING, TERRORIST ATTACKS. In Every majot city in the U.S and for the hel.l of it, Madagascar too.

Allt he forces of democracy shall bow to my will....

Wait, gotta go, Osama´s mistress is calling me back to bed.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

its a legitamate right and necessity for all governments to monitor and regulate its communication infrastructure.

Are you for real? if so you are one sad dude or just a red neck who thinks being patriotic is more important than civil liberty..

Now you Yankees can flame me all you like but just remember you sow the seeds you reap the harvest and if you care to look back in your very short history you will see that the only reason you have been crapped on is because you fed the crappers with prune juice while it suited you. Who sponsored the Taliban? and on and on and on.

I once stood in speaker’s corner in Hyde Park listening to a guy who called himself Lord Peter, a funny guy who liked to make a mockery out of the Americans in the audience; he said "when it comes to history you Americans just have to take our word for it"

I find it staggering that as one of the worlds youngest countries with very little culture of your own you have all of the answers to the worlds cultural and political problems.

Guys you are on borrowed time, people have your card marked and no longer look up to you any more and never will as long as you have a religious fanatic at the helm.

Thats my Fourbahts worth...

Yeah I am for real but its not a patriotism thing at all. It's an infrastructure and like infrastructures that came before it needs to be policed. Lets look at history

Waterways

Railroads

Highways

Early on in their histories they were not regulated but because of the public interest issues of safety etc they are now regulated and if you want to use them then you can but its a priviledge and you have to meet certain conditions and be accountable for your actions.

Don't you have to register your vehicle? have a drivers? permit? show license plates? have a current address on file? social security #, Picture? sure you do. Why is this okay with most people in most countries? because if a person does something wrong that endangers or injures someone then they can be tracked and stopped or penalized. This law enforcement benefits all users including you.

Same thing now with the Internet. It very important to many users, businesses, agencies and should be regulated and monitored for the interest of the greater public safety of all entities who rely on the internet.

Should we assume the

hackers

spies

sex predators

identity thieves

pirates

terrorists

are all honorable types that can police themselves? Get used to the idea that governments are going to police the internet. Governments are just getting started in these areas. There will be a lot of experimentation and adjustment as they try to meet objectives.

Just like the throwbacks probably complained about having to have a drivers license you will get over it soon enough.

[fourbaht]

Cobra

You missed the last line from your post:

" Ok I am bending over My trousers are round my ankles and I am greased up, NEXT PLEASE"

[peterjackson]

Hey

The FBI/NSA/CIA where operating from the worlds largest monitoring facility long before 9/11. Interestingly enough, the facility is not within the USA.

For some very interesting reading, just do a google for MENWITH HILL.

Kind Regards

Peter

[Crushdepth]

Early on in their histories they were not regulated but because of the public interest issues of safety etc they are now regulated and if you want to use them then you can but its a priviledge and you have to meet certain conditions and be accountable for your actions.

Don't you have to register your vehicle? have a drivers? permit? show license plates? have a current address on file? social security #, Picture? sure you do. Why is this okay with most people in most countries? because if a person does something wrong that endangers or injures someone then they can be tracked and stopped or penalized. This law enforcement benefits all users including you.

Same thing now with the Internet. It very important to many users, businesses, agencies and should be regulated and monitored for the interest of the greater public safety of all entities who rely on the internet.

Phil Zimmermann wrote this in 1999 (full text available on his website - see the senate testimony and 'why I wrote PGP' pages:

...while technology infrastructures can persist for generations, laws and policies can change overnight. Once a communications infrastructure optimized for surveillance becomes entrenched, a shift in political conditions may lead to abuse of this new-found power. Political conditions may shift with the election of a new government, or perhaps more abruptly from the bombing of a federal building.

Also, on privacy:

Perhaps you think your email is legitimate enough that encryption is unwarranted. If you really are a law-abiding citizen with nothing to hide, then why don't you always send your paper mail on postcards? Why not submit to drug testing on demand? Why require a warrant for police searches of your house? Are you trying to hide something? If you hide your mail inside envelopes, does that mean you must be a subversive or a drug dealer, or maybe a paranoid nut? Do law-abiding citizens have any need to encrypt their email?

In 1996 he wrote:

This is unsettling because in a democracy, it is possible for bad people to occasionally get elected-- sometimes very bad people. Normally, a well-functioning democracy has ways to remove these people from power. But the wrong technology infrastructure could allow such a future government to watch every move anyone makes to oppose it. It could very well be the last government we ever elect.

When making public policy decisions about new technologies for the government, I think one should ask oneself which technologies would best strengthen the hand of a police state. Then, do not allow the government to deploy those technologies. This is simply a matter of good civic hygiene.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Policing the internet is fine, but spying on people without judicial oversight and appropriate checks and balances is not ok at all. Hackers, spies and sex predators may not be honorable people but what makes you think that governments are any better at policing themselves? If you trust your own government, how about the one here?

[fourbaht]

Here Here..

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

That pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Policing the internet is fine, but spying on people without judicial oversight and appropriate checks and balances is not ok at all. Hackers, spies and sex predators may not be honorable people but what makes you think that governments are any better at policing themselves? If you trust your own government, how about the one here?

Okay I will keep this alive. Mayby 4 baht will finally say something intelligent :-) best not get my hopes up though.

I briefly worked with Phil Z in Ft Collins Colorado years ago. I was just a wet behind the ears junior Unix system administrator at the time. I agree his PGP is a great contribution. Keep in mind Phil Z was preaching about privacy well before 9/11 etc. I use PGP occasionally it and why not. No government has talked about banning encryption. It's available to everyone. Can it be cracked? Yup but it takes many CPU cycles. Why not use it and stop whining about the NSA reading your packets. I doubt they are going to dedicate serious computing resources to cracking your emails to your ladyboy.

I don't think these issues are that simple to allow a dogmatic yes or no as there are many conflicting perspectives. If a group of chinese financed eastern european hackers are trying to probe and infiltrate US Govt and private industry computers then most likely the Plebiscite will approve of this policing. Democracies can over react and surely make mistakes but what are you advocating instead? A switch to Autocracy when a democracy does not vote your way?

This Chinese event has already been documented and probably just the beginning of future Information warfare coming from many directions. Elected officials are always ridiculed when something goes wrong. How many times have we heard conspiracy theorists accuse the US Govt of allowing or even facilitating 9/11? The govt's are trying to get out in front on the next possible disaster. What if the internet is crippled by a cyber attack? That's not a good way to get reelected if it happens on your watch. Arguably that's what we are paying these elected officials to prevent and solve future problems.

There will have to be a balance between allowing privacy via something like PGP and public safety accountability to keep the infrasture stable and safe for many different users.

Most likely this will entail some monitoring and network analysis coupled with evidentiary rules for admissibility into the court system. In the US we may well see a major Act introduced into legal doctrine and new Department to be formed to govern this new infrastructure.

Stay tuned !!!!

[cathyy]

No biggie - not doing anything illegal so no worries.

"All it takes for tyranny to gain a foothold is for men of good conscience to remain silent."

Thomas Jefferson

[DrFisher]

No offence and pardon my ignorance but what does that have to do or how does this apply to Thailand and those of us who live here?

[cathyy]

i got an idea.

maybe the US government can impose bans on internet services in the USA. u know like totally isolate themselves.

It may happen. The US is determined to retain possession and control of the worldwide DNS root servers. Other countries are determined to have it under international control. The US may find itself isolated from the rest of the internet due to having two DNS root server systems, one for them and one for the rest of the world.

Edited July 16, 2006 by cathyy

[kayo]

its a legitamate right and necessity for all governments to monitor and regulate its communication infrastructure.

Are you for real? if so you are one sad dude or just a red neck who thinks being patriotic is more important than civil liberty..

Now you Yankees can flame me all you like but just remember you sow the seeds you reap the harvest and if you care to look back in your very short history you will see that the only reason you have been crapped on is because you fed the crappers with prune juice while it suited you. Who sponsored the Taliban? and on and on and on.

I once stood in speaker’s corner in Hyde Park listening to a guy who called himself Lord Peter, a funny guy who liked to make a mockery out of the Americans in the audience; he said "when it comes to history you Americans just have to take our word for it"

I find it staggering that as one of the worlds youngest countries with very little culture of your own you have all of the answers to the worlds cultural and political problems.

Guys you are on borrowed time, people have your card marked and no longer look up to you any more and never will as long as you have a religious fanatic at the helm.

Thats my Fourbahts worth...

Seems you need to study your recent history a bit better . There are quite a few countries that are much younger than the US and at 230 years old hardly qualifies as one of the youngest.

Regardless, it is all off this rather bizarre topic.

And you need glasses my dear... "one of the worlds youngest countries" Not the youngest and yes at 230 years old you are relative newcomers compared to the numerous cultures you feel it is ok to have destroyed or manipulated for your own gain and always in the disguise of democracy.

But yes you are correct it is off topic, feel free to open somewhere else if you would like to discuss your so called great nations errors.

Nationhood Independence dates (as they are known today)

AFTER THE US DECLARATION OF "we're running away from mummy"

(including some surprises for the lesser educated; Surprises are in bold, original dates of regional unification shown in brackets)

greece 1821 (337 BC)

Egypt 1922, (3100 BC)

Iraq 1932 (2334 BC)

israel 1948 (1020 BC)

China 1949 (2070 BC)

India 1950 (3000 BC)

France 1958 (486 BC)

Iran 1979 (2700 BC)

Georgia 1991 (1300 BC)

Norway 1905

Poland 1918

Austria 1945

as and aside> Thailand 1238 traditional founding date; never colonized

And now..

Ready..........

Modern-day countries Note that the USA are the 5th OLDEST country in the world.

The dates in the table below are celebrated as "Independence Day" or an equivalent holiday in the respective countries.

Date Nation Event

6 June 1523 Sweden Gustav Vasa is elected king of Sweden, .

26 March 1707 Great Britain union of the kingdoms of England and Scotland

23 January 1719 Imperial Principality of Liechtenstein

21 December 1768 Nepal unified by Prithvi Narayan Shah

4 July 1776 United States declared independence from Great Britain

1 January 1801 United Kingdom union of Great Britain and Ireland

1 January 1804 Haiti from France

4 February 1804 Serbia from Ottoman Empire

12 July 1806 Liechtenstein from the Holy Roman Empire

20 July 1810 Colombia from Spain

18 September 1810 Chile from Spain

14 May 1811 Paraguay from Spain

5 July 1811 Venezuela from Spain

17 May 1814 Norway Declared independence from Denmark and established a constitutional monarchy. Forced into a personal union with Sweden on 4 November.

9 July 1816 Argentina from Spain

1817 Serbia became an autonomous state in Ottoman Empire

25 March 1821 Greece from the Ottoman Empire

28 July 1821 Peru from Spain

15 September 1821 Costa Rica from Spain

15 September 1821 El Salvador from Spain

15 September 1821 Guatemala from Spain

15 September 1821 Honduras from Spain

15 September 1821 Nicaragua from Spain

27 September 1821 Mexico from Spain

28 November 1821 Panama from Spain

24 May 1822 Ecuador from Spain

7 September 1822 Brazil from Portugal

6 August 1825 Bolivia from Spain

25 August 1825 Uruguay from Brazil

4 October 1830 Belgium independence from the Netherlands

28 October 1835 New Zealand Declaration of the Independence of New Zealand by the United Tribes of New Zealand

2 March 1836 Republic of Texas declared independence from Mexico

1839 Luxembourg from the Netherlands

27 February 1844 Dominican Republic from Haiti

26 July 1847 Liberia founded by American black slaves

17 March 1861 Italy Kingdom of Italy unified under King Victor Emmanuel II of Italy

1 July 1867 Canada Became a Dominion within the British Empire

18 January 1871 German Empire German Empire unification

9 May 1877 Romania from the Ottoman Empire

3 March 1878 Bulgaria Autonomy from the Ottoman Empire

13 July 1878 Serbia Independence from the Ottoman Empire

13 July 1878 Montenegro Independence from the Ottoman Empire

26 March 1881 Kingdom of Romania

11 February 1897 Korean Empire from Chinese protectorate

12 June 1898 Philippines from Spain (first colonial possession in Asia to achieve independence)

10 December 1898 Cuba from Spain

1 January 1901 Australia from the UK as a federation of 6 former colonies

20 May 1902 Cuba from U.S. administration

3 November 1903 Panama from Colombia

June 7, 1905 Norway Declared dissolution of the personal union with Sweden

September 26, 1907 New Zealand granted Dominion status by the UK

September 26, 1907 Newfoundland granted Dominion status by the UK

September 22, 1908 Bulgaria gained independence from Ottoman Empire

May 31, 1910 South Africa granted Dominion status by the UK

January 1 (February 12, O.S.), 1912 Republic of China from Qing Dynasty

November 28, 1912 Albania from Ottoman Empire

December 6, 1917 Finland from Russia

February 16, 1918 Lithuania from Russia

February 24, 1918 Estonia from Russia

March 25, 1918 Belarus from Russia

May 28, 1918 Azerbaijan from Russia

May 28, 1918 Armenia from the Ottoman Empire

October 28, 1918 Czechoslovakia from the Austria-Hungary Empire

November 1, 1918 North Yemen from the Ottoman Empire

November 11, 1918 Poland regained independence, proclaimed as a republic

November 18, 1918 Latvia from Russia

December 1, 1918 Iceland became a sovereign state under the Danish Crown

August 19, 1919 Afghanistan from UK control over Afghan foreign affairs

July 11, 1921 Mongolia from China

December 6, 1921 Ireland from UK by treaty, most of Ireland (26 counties) became an independent nation known as the Irish Free State; while the six counties of the North (Northern Ireland with a unionist Protestant majority) remained part of the United Kingdom.

December 6, 1921 Northern Ireland partition of Ireland formed State of Northern Ireland with own Senate and House of Commons but remained within the United Kingdom.

1922 Soviet Union fall of the Russian Empire

October 29, 1923 Turkey successor state to the Ottoman Empire

February 11, 1929 Vatican City from Italy

September 23, 1932 Saudi Arabia Unification of the Kingdom

November 22, 1943 Lebanon from League of Nations mandate under French administration

June 17, 1944 Iceland from Denmark

September 17, 1944 Estonia from Ostland

May 8, 1945 Latvia from German Military Administration

August 15, 1945 Korea from Japan

August 17, 1945 Indonesia from the Netherlands

September 2, 1945 Vietnam declaration of independence from France

April 17, 1946 Syria from League of Nations mandate under French administration

May 25, 1946 Jordan from League of Nations mandate under British administration

July 4, 1946 Philippines regained independence from US

August 14, 1947 Pakistan from UK

August 15, 1947 India from UK

December 30, 1947 Romania proclaimed as a republic

1948 Republic of Ireland 26 counties of Ireland cuts off all lasting political links with the United Kingdom and is now fully independent with the exception of the 6 counties of Northern Ireland.

January 4, 1948 Burma from UK

February 4, 1948 Sri Lanka from UK

May 14, 1948 Israel from League of Nations mandate under British administration

August 15, 1948 Republic of Korea founding of the Republic of Korea

September 9, 1948 Democratic People's Republic of Korea founding of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

May 23, 1949 Federal Republic of Germany from the western part of occupied Germany

July 19, 1949 Laos from France

August 8, 1949 Bhutan from India

October 1, 1949 People's Republic of China from Republic of China

October 7, 1949 German Democratic Republic from the eastern part of occupied Germany

December 24, 1951 Libya from UK and French administration

November 9, 1953 Cambodia from France

January 1, 1956 Sudan from Egypt and UK

March 2, 1956 Morocco from France and Spain

March 20, 1956 Tunisia from France

March 6, 1957 Ghana from UK

August 31, 1957 Malaysia from UK

October 2, 1958 Guinea from France

October 5, 1958 France French Fifth Republic declared

January 1, 1960 Cameroon from French-administered UN trusteeship

April 4, 1960 Senegal from France

April 27, 1960 Togo from French-administered UN trusteeship

June 26, 1960 Madagascar from France

June 26, 1960 Somalia from the UK

June 30, 1960 Democratic Republic of the Congo from Belgium

July 1, 1960 Somalia from the Italian-administered UN trusteeship

August 1, 1960 Benin from France

August 3, 1960 Niger from France

August 5, 1960 Burkina Faso from France

August 7, 1960 Côte d'Ivoire from France

August 11, 1960 Chad from France

August 13, 1960 Central African Republic from France

August 15, 1960 Republic of the Congo from France

August 16, 1960 Cyprus from UK

August 17, 1960 Gabon from France

September 22, 1960 Mali from France

October 1, 1960 Nigeria from UK

November 28, 1960 Mauritania from France

April 27, 1961 Sierra Leone from UK

June 19, 1961 Kuwait from UK

January 1, 1962 Samoa from New Zealand-administered UN trusteeship

July 1, 1962 Burundi from UN trusteeship under Belgian administration

July 1, 1962 Rwanda from Belgium-administered UN trusteeship

July 5, 1962 Algeria from France

August 6, 1962 Jamaica from UK

August 31, 1962 Trinidad and Tobago from UK

October 9, 1962 Uganda from UK

December 12, 1963 Kenya from UK

April 26, 1964 Tanzania from UK-administered UN trusteeship

July 6, 1964 Malawi from UK

September 21, 1964 Malta from UK

October 24, 1964 Zambia from UK

February 18, 1965 The Gambia from UK

July 26, 1965 Maldives from UK

August 9, 1965 Singapore from Malaysian Federation

November 11, 1965 Rhodesia UDI from UK

May 26, 1966 Guyana from UK

September 30, 1966 Botswana from UK

October 4, 1966 Lesotho from UK

November 30, 1966 Barbados from UK

November 30, 1967 South Yemen from UK

January 31, 1968 Nauru from the Australia-, NZ-, and UK-administered UN trusteeship

March 12, 1968 Mauritius from UK

September 6, 1968 Swaziland from UK

October 12, 1968 Equatorial Guinea from Spain

June 4, 1970 Tonga from UK protectorate

October 10, 1970 Fiji from UK

August 15, 1971 Bahrain from UK

September 3, 1971 Qatar from UK

December 2, 1971 United Arab Emirates from UK

December 16, 1971 Bangladesh from Pakistan

July 10, 1973 The Bahamas from UK

September 24, 1973 Guinea-Bissau declared independence from Portugal

February 7, 1974 Grenada from UK

October 19, 1974 Niue became a self-governing parliamentary government

June 25, 1975 Mozambique from Portugal

July 5, 1975 Cape Verde from Portugal

July 6, 1975 Comoros from France

July 12, 1975 São Tomé and Principe from Portugal

September 16, 1975 Papua New Guinea from the Australian-administered UN trusteeship

November 11, 1975 Angola from Portugal

November 25, 1975 Suriname from Netherlands

February 27, 1976 Western Sahara from Spain, currently mostly occupied by Morocco,

June 29, 1976 Seychelles from UK

June 27, 1977 Djibouti from France

July 7, 1978 Solomon Islands from UK

October 1, 1978 Tuvalu from UK

November 3, 1978 Dominica from UK

February 22, 1979 Saint Lucia from UK

July 12, 1979 Kiribati from UK

October 27, 1979 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines from UK

April 18, 1980 Zimbabwe from UK

July 30, 1980 Vanuatu from France and UK

September 21, 1981 Belize from UK

November 1, 1981 Antigua and Barbuda from UK

September 19, 1983 Saint Kitts and Nevis from UK

January 1, 1984 Brunei from UK

October 21, 1986 Marshall Islands from the US-administered ....

November 3, 1986 Federated States of Micronesia from the US-admini ...

March 11, 1990 Lithuania from the Soviet Union

March 21, 1990 Namibia from South Africa

May 22, 1990 Yemen unification of North Yemen and South Yemen

October 3, 1990 Germany unification of West Germany and East Germany

April 9, 1991 Georgia from the Soviet Union

June 25, 1991 Croatia from Yugoslavia

June 25, 1991 Slovenia from Yugoslavia

August 20, 1991 Estonia from the Soviet Union

August 21, 1991 Latvia from the Soviet Union

August 24, 1991 Russia from the Soviet Union

August 24, 1991 Ukraine from the Soviet Union

August 25, 1991 Belarus from the Soviet Union

August 27, 1991 Moldova from the Soviet Union

August 30, 1991 Azerbaijan from the Soviet Union

August 31, 1991 Kyrgyzstan from the Soviet Union

September 1, 1991 Uzbekistan from the Soviet Union

September 8, 1991 Republic of Macedonia from Yugoslavia

September 9, 1991 Tajikistan from the Soviet Union

September 21, 1991 Armenia from the Soviet Union

October 27, 1991 Turkmenistan from the Soviet Union

December 16, 1991 Kazakhstan from the Soviet Union

March 1, 1992 Bosnia and Herzegovina from Yugoslavia

April 27, 1992 Serbia and Montenegro from Yugoslavia

January 1, 1993 Czech Republic Czechoslovakia dissolved

January 1, 1993 Slovakia Czechoslovakia dissolved

May 24, 1993 Eritrea from Ethiopia

October 1, 1994 Palau from the US-admin as Compact of Free Association takes effect

May 20, 2002 East Timor from Indonesian Occupation, Nominally Portugal

June 3, 2006 Montenegro Montenegro declares independence from Serbia

June 5, 2006 Serbia Serbia and Montenegro Dissolved.

Cobra

You missed the last line from your post:

" Ok I am bending over My trousers are round my ankles and I am greased up, my hands tied by my necktie and my snake dangling loosely NEXT PLEASE"

Hey

The FBI/NSA/CIA where operating from the worlds largest monitoring facility long before 9/11. Interestingly enough, the facility is not within the USA.

For some very interesting reading, just do a google for MENWITH HILL.

Kind Regards

Peter

good one peter. Thank you. here ya go for lazy buggers... funny feeling it won't get closed with Tony Dubya Blair in power...

The Menwith Hill spy base near Harrogate in North Yorkshire, England, is the largest electronic monitoring station in the world. Run by the National Security Agency (NSA) of the United States, it is one of a global network of Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) bases, which monitors the world's communications and relays information to NSA HQ at Fort Meade in Maryland, USA.

The NSA was set up by Presidential decree in 1952 without any debate in the US Congress. Until a few years ago, the existence of the NSA was a secret and its charter and any mention of its duties are still classified.

The American people know very little about it - and they know even less about Menwith Hill.

Find out more about Menwith Hill, the campaign to close it and news of recent developments here, at the Menwith Hill site. Source> Close the illegal Yank base

[Gumballl]

(For a little background, read the Salon article reprinted here)

Now go to this Wired article here and read how to find out if traffic to a particular domain or mail exchanger is being re-routed through AT&T

Performing a tracert (in the Command Prompt window, which can be accessed from Start-Programs-Accessories in Windows) on several websites I own I discover that 1 is being rerouted through the AT&T substation in Dallas. I only use this domain email and it is the oldest of my domains. My other hosting accounts on the same server do not route through the AT&T substation. I've tried this about 10 times and that particular domain reaches the substation at about the 9-11th hop, while my other domains never do. Again, on the same server.

Yes, AT&T is a major internet backbone operator in the US. However, my webhost connects to the backbone after the AT&T substation for that domain. The other domains connect to the same backbone but skip the substation.

I happen to know that the AT&T/Bell surveillance substations in every region in the US is always in a building nextdoor to an FBI office. (I did some city work a few years ago, and we had to come up with contingency plans). I used to think this was just to make it easy for the FBI to communicate in case of an emergency, but now their relationship looks even more interesting because of these new developments.

(by the way, you can also type in "NETSTAT -P TCP" in the C prompt to see if your system is being monitored, by hackers, crackers, trojans, or otherwise)

I read your post for the second time now. Please tell us (that is, the TV forum) how you know that YOU are being monitored by the NSA and the FBI.

Just because your internet traffic is flowing thru the AT&T servers does not imply that YOU are important enuf for the NSA or the FBI to look at your web-surfing activities. In fact, it is quite probable that YOU are an insignificant "fish" in a great sea of other web-surfers.

[OldAsiaHand]

Okay I will keep this alive. Mayby 4 baht will finally say something intelligent :-) best not get my hopes up though......

Well.....nice try anyway.

Regardless, your post was interesting and thoughtful. What a shame that intelligence isn't contagious.