I'm allergic to MSG. What foods here contain the most?

[fxe1200]

You can say it any way you like, but they'll just smile and nod and do nothing. The MSG, also known as KerNor (Knorr seasoning) will be in there anyway. No escape really.

Today you can buy stock cubes without MSG made by Knorr (green package). Thailands food labelling system is OK for me, as it always points out the amount of MSG, sugar and other ingredients.

Note you need to find the ones with small Thai writing that specifically say this.. Other green ones are the same as the Yellow

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If you buy, prepare and eat only your own ingredients there's no problem; just at food stalls and even restaurants where you have no control or way of knowing how much MSG (or anything else) goes into the food.

There is one exception! Read carefully, scroll down...

http://harleys.de/fishkitchen/menu.pdf

[fittobethaied]

Don't be fooled by some of claims on this thread that MSG is not harmful. My Thai wife is deathly allergic to it, and so is her adult daughter. We never fail to speak with the waiter/waitress/cook and ask them not to add MSG, and we even have a little business card to hand to them which says something on the order of "Please do not add MSG to my food. I am allergic to it and I may have a reaction and die if I eat it." In spite of our pleas we have discovered that most often our requests fall on deaf ears. The servers don't like to make special requests of the cooks, so rather than risk upsetting them they will simply not mention it. Also the cooks are afraid that if they do not add the MSG their food will not taste good and the customer will tell others that the restaurant serves food that is not tasty. Since most orders given to the cook are verbal and not written for the cook to see, by the time the cook comes to your order they will not remember the request to not add the MSG and simply cook it the way they always cook it out of habit.

As others have already mentioned, MSG is added to most bottled cooking sauces, and the restaurants will not pay extra money to buy the MSG free sauces, so you are going to get it one way or the other. Also, if you are ordering food that requires a precooked sauce or soup, then chances are that will have MSG already added. Your only hope is to stick with specific dishes that are prepared at a few reliable restaurants, or cook at home and buy only the MSG free sauces.

If my wife even eats the smallest amount that may be an ingredient of just one of the sauces, she will break out in hives, have trouble breathing, and in rare cases go into anaphylactic shock. She has to take allergy pills that contain an antishistamine and the symptoms will generally stay with her for 2-3 days. I can recall two occasions where we had to take her daughter to the Emergency Room. People are being poisoned worldwide by this stuff and yet there is big money behind it, so you can bet that the research and findings are tainted. Don't believe all that you read. Sooner or later the truth will come out and the manufacturers will be exposed and held accountable, and it will go the way of the cigarette and "big tobacco".

[attrayant]

"Allergic" is the the correct term.

Of course I meant "is not the correct term".

It's the same kind of mistake people make when they claim to be allergic to gluten or dairy. What almost all of them are trying to say is that they're intolerant to an ingredient that is otherwise generally a safe food to consume.

[attrayant]

Don't be fooled by some of claims on this thread that MSG is not harmful. My Thai wife is deathly allergic to it, and so is her adult daughter.

/snip/

People are being poisoned worldwide by this stuff and yet there is big money behind it, so you can bet that the research and findings are tainted. Don't believe all that you read. Sooner or later the truth will come out and the manufacturers will be exposed and held accountable, and it will go the way of the cigarette and "big tobacco".

You're really going off topic. I'll hold my rebuttal and point out the thread where we've done this "MSG is poison" nonsense before:

The Myth of MSG

[Robert2006]

Could it be that you're allergic to the Idea of having MSG in your food? as repeated medical testing and trails

shoed that there is nothing wrong with MSG, unless you're a very special man...

My opinion from my research is that MSG is not something I want to eat. You are what you eat; literally, I think most people want to build the cells that comprise their body from natural whole foods not synthetic compounds like MSG.

Many food additives have been “studied” in medical trials and found harmless. Would you feel comfortable eating the feces of genetically modified E Coli bacteria? It’s been studied and approved the trade name of the product is Aspartame. MSG is approved but personally I just don’t trust the research.

[attrayant]

Would you feel comfortable eating bee vomit? Sorry but the "eww it's icky" factor is not a reliable method for determining how safe something is to eat.

[attrayant]

MSG is also disguised on labels as " hydrolyzed vegetable protein ", among other things

In the USA, and on foods intended to be imported to or consumed in the USA, the additive MSG can not legally be referred to by a pseudonym or catch-all phrase like "natural flavorings". However, MSG is an amino acid salt that occurs naturally in hydrolyzed vegetable protein, yeasts, many cheeses, tomatoes and many many other foods and food ingredients. When MSG occurs in food naturally (i.e. it's not added during processing), it does not need to appear on the ingredient label.

[Robert2006]

Would you feel comfortable eating bee vomit? Sorry but the "eww it's icky" factor is not a reliable method for determining how safe something is to eat.

Thankfully we are all free to consume foods that we believe are the most beneficial for our health. Personally I stay away from GMO, synthetic dyes and food additives, granted they are scientifically approved but I’m not comfortable that those types of foods are the healthiest thing for me to eat.

[BestBitterPhuket]

There is no MSG allergy, but there is MSG intolerance. For the medical profession the difference is a huge deal, but for the sufferer the discomfort is real and not academic.

[MZurf]

You are not allergic to MSG. Nobody is.

Total BS, there are a lot of folks, who are allergic I myself, when consuming food, which is prepared with MSG, in the evening, I cannot sleep and have to wait four to five hours until I then can sleep. Germans also use the word "Geschmacksverstaerker", or taste enhancer . Actually, if someone needs to put MSG in the food, to make it "tasty", should better switch the job or learn cooking.

Exactly. My wife and I both react to large amounts of MSG in the food. I get a warm, tingling sensation running down my neck which is very unpleasant, and my wife gets that and in addition her face gets flushed. It lasts for about 15 minutes.

[nglodnig]

Isn't it simpler and quicker to come up with a list of Thai food that DOESN'T have MSG? It'll be a short list I bet!

[bkkjames]

But it says, if I may say so: "Make food aroi, not have pomtschurot" right across the package, you can't miss it.

thats what I thought too - until one day the wifey said there are green packages that don't have that....the plot thickens. Maybe just the bigger non cube size loose packages?

[cyborgx]

MSG can be a poison to westerners, if taken over a long period

Says who in what PROPER controlled scientific investigation?

Just about ANYTHING ingested in excessive amounts is harmful, but as far as I am aware there is still no good research proving it to be harmful in any way to humans.

Edited July 22, 2014 by cyborgx

[cyborgx]

Get hold of some food grade Diatomatic earth (check it out on youtube) - it should take the MSG build up out of your system and any build up of heavy metals, helpful if you eat a lot of fish. Use 5g (a dessert spoon full) in a glass of water and down it - energy will be back in about 48 hours! (must be the white food grade not the red swimming pool filter grade)

Then wash it down with one glass of your own urine that you produced whilst facing east at sunrise, standing on one leg in a bucket of custard .....

[cyborgx]

OP personally i would suggest going to a hospital and getting checked out. then ask to speak to a nutirionist or ask your Doctor.

this has solves a lot o my issues with food and makes sure that i am eating correctly.

Unless you are eating at Subway all the time or eating salads it is going to be hard to kow.

Check with a doctor no offense to anyone here but i see very few MD credentials in these posts.

Even Doctors, what do they REALLY know and fully understand about nutrition. Most of what they tell you is based upon text books they learnt from perhaps 5-10 years ago, written by people about the "accepted" misconceptions of the previous 10-20 years.....

The truth is that Scientists (not your average GP) are only now beginning to get real insights into the body, its detailed digestive processes etc., and the response that you will get from most doctors will be "if you think eating it is the cause of the problem, stop eating it and see if you feel better". Not that that PROVES MSG was the cause even if you do feel better...... If he/she really thought you were allergic to something, a good doctor would perhaps run a load of Allergy tests on you, but in the case of MSG as far as I know its still not even proven that it has ever had any allergic effect on anyone yet, so probably a waste of time and money.

As has been proven time and time again over the years, a lot of the things that we believe to be fact turn out to be disproved a few years later, which goes ESPECIALLY for the field of nutrition and dieting.

As Scientists slowly uncover the minute details of processes happening in the body and all the trillions of reactions going on in it all the time, our understanding of it will slowly become clearer, but IMHO we are only just emerging from the "mostly calculated guesswork" period of medicine, and entering the true era of medical discovery.

Right that's my spiel I'm off to bed! Gnight all

[cyborgx]

Don't be fooled by some of claims on this thread that MSG is not harmful. My Thai wife is deathly allergic to it, and so is her adult daughter. We never fail to speak with the waiter/waitress/cook and ask them not to add MSG, and we even have a little business card to hand to them which says something on the order of "Please do not add MSG to my food. I am allergic to it and I may have a reaction and die if I eat it." In spite of our pleas we have discovered that most often our requests fall on deaf ears. The servers don't like to make special requests of the cooks, so rather than risk upsetting them they will simply not mention it. Also the cooks are afraid that if they do not add the MSG their food will not taste good and the customer will tell others that the restaurant serves food that is not tasty. Since most orders given to the cook are verbal and not written for the cook to see, by the time the cook comes to your order they will not remember the request to not add the MSG and simply cook it the way they always cook it out of habit.

As others have already mentioned, MSG is added to most bottled cooking sauces, and the restaurants will not pay extra money to buy the MSG free sauces, so you are going to get it one way or the other. Also, if you are ordering food that requires a precooked sauce or soup, then chances are that will have MSG already added. Your only hope is to stick with specific dishes that are prepared at a few reliable restaurants, or cook at home and buy only the MSG free sauces.

If my wife even eats the smallest amount that may be an ingredient of just one of the sauces, she will break out in hives, have trouble breathing, and in rare cases go into anaphylactic shock. She has to take allergy pills that contain an antishistamine and the symptoms will generally stay with her for 2-3 days. I can recall two occasions where we had to take her daughter to the Emergency Room. People are being poisoned worldwide by this stuff and yet there is big money behind it, so you can bet that the research and findings are tainted. Don't believe all that you read. Sooner or later the truth will come out and the manufacturers will be exposed and held accountable, and it will go the way of the cigarette and "big tobacco".

My sympathies go out to your poor suffering wife and daughter. Having said that......

At what point does it become toxic to her? 50mg, 500mg, 1g, 5g,15, 20?

As you say its in most bottled sauces used in Thailand, and it's virtually impossible to eat anything totally 100% MSG Free, unless cooking everything for yourself and using ONLY fresh produce and raw spices. Some sauces may be MSG free, but as already stated on this thread, it is sometimes disguised under another name on the bottle's ingredients list...

Assuming you have a good idea of how much she consumed at the time of her attacks, the only REAL way to PROVE that the cause is DEFINITELY MSG, is to give her a much reduced dosage without her knowledge (perhaps dissolved in water or soft drink), and with a doctor and recovery team standing by in case of emergency (this is similar to how doctors will test for allergies, but in this case it needs to be a test unknown to the patient to help rule out anything psychosomatic or environmental).

Sounds harsh, but the mind is a very powerful thing, and can cause all the symptoms you describe. If you really want to know if that is the real cause and its not just a panic attack (extremely common in Thailand Emergency rooms), thats the only way. The downside is that they might suffer for a short time, but with the low dosage its likely to be only a slight reaction, the upside is that if you prove its NOT the MSG, they can go back to enjoying all the wonderful food that's available in Thailand and not have to go through the saga of asking for special food preparation every time......

Edited July 22, 2014 by cyborgx

[attrayant]

I know your intentions are noble, but a single, non-blinded experiment under poorly controlled conditions isn't going to prove anything. A firm conclusion simply cannot be drawn from a single experiment. And when the experimenter knows what's going on, there is an opportunity for confirmation bias to taint the results. A proper study would need to have dozens of trials and hundreds of participants before a causative link could be suggested. What if she gets a bit of dust in her nose while eating, and has a sneezing fit? Certainly the MSG will be blamed. What if she's having an off day and reports feeling tired after eating? Ah HA! It must have been the MSG!

Such experiments, by the way, have already been done thousands of times over with no significant findings to report. The only time negative side effects are reported is when subjects receive huge doses of MSG, in the 3-5 gram range. This is about ten or twenty times more than you'd get from an entire MSG-laden meal.

[suzannegoh]

MSG can be a poison to westerners, if taken over a long period

Says who in what PROPER controlled scientific investigation?

Just about ANYTHING ingested in excessive amounts is harmful, but as far as I am aware there is still no good research proving it to be harmful in any way to humans.

http://www.naturalnews.com/039199_central_nervous_system_damage_msg.html

[attrayant]

Natural News? Great. What's next? Using the bible as a cite that god is real?

I guess you missed the words "proper, controlled and scientific" in the post you quoted.

[fxe1200]

There is no MSG allergy, but there is MSG intolerance. For the medical profession the difference is a huge deal, but for the sufferer the discomfort is real and not academic.

This is known worldwide as the "China Restaurant Syndrome" It looks, we are probably not alone with that intolerance. I could imagine, that Thai people suffer too, but blame it on something else.

Anyhow, after doing a little research, I found this article, which relates MSG to Alzheimer (http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/2/376.full.pdf+html) and the site http://www.msgtruth.org/alzheim.htm, with more information about MSG and also other related illnesses, with lots of links.

According to a graph (http://www.ihs.com/products/chemical/planning/ceh/monosodium-glutamate.aspx?pu=1&rd=chemihs) Thailand consumes more MSG, than complete Western Europa, abuse preprogrammed.

But as MSG is widely used and a multimillion dollar profit cow, nobody is going to slaughter it.

We should not worry about those, who defend MSG and have it for breakfast, lunch and supper. They soon might forget about it.

[partington]

Could it be that you're allergic to the Idea of having MSG in your food? as repeated medical testing and trails

shoed that there is nothing wrong with MSG, unless you're a very special man...

My opinion from my research is that MSG is not something I want to eat. You are what you eat; literally, I think most people want to build the cells that comprise their body from natural whole foods not synthetic compounds like MSG.

Many food additives have been “studied” in medical trials and found harmless. Would you feel comfortable eating the feces of genetically modified E Coli bacteria? It’s been studied and approved the trade name of the product is Aspartame. MSG is approved but personally I just don’t trust the research.

At the risk of boring even myself, I have to repeat yet again MSG is a compound that is made every day inside your body by all your cells.

It is the salt of one of the 20 amino acids that your body uses to build all your proteins including muscle, liver, kidneys. It is present in your blood all day every day and if you ate none your body would still make it.

So that you like the taste of your food the human tongue contains receptors for MSG that have evolved specifically to detect that compound, which fits into their protein structure like a key into a lock.

It is not "unnatural!"

[IMA_FARANG]

While I'm not convinced about everyone being allergic to MSG, I've been in Thailand long enough to know very well MY reaction.

I have high blood prssure anyhow.

MSG agrevates that.

I can tell exactly when it happens. Within a few minutes of eating MSG laden foods (not all Thai food, just food that uses a lot of MSG) I start getting headaches and my blood pressure rises.

And yes, at least for me it IS a real effect.

Been there, took home the T-shirt.

[fxe1200]

Could it be that you're allergic to the Idea of having MSG in your food? as repeated medical testing and trails

shoed that there is nothing wrong with MSG, unless you're a very special man...

My opinion from my research is that MSG is not something I want to eat. You are what you eat; literally, I think most people want to build the cells that comprise their body from natural whole foods not synthetic compounds like MSG.

Many food additives have been “studied” in medical trials and found harmless. Would you feel comfortable eating the feces of genetically modified E Coli bacteria? It’s been studied and approved the trade name of the product is Aspartame. MSG is approved but personally I just don’t trust the research.

At the risk of boring even myself, I have to repeat yet again MSG is a compound that is made every day inside your body by all your cells.

It is the salt of one of the 20 amino acids that your body uses to build all your proteins including muscle, liver, kidneys. It is present in your blood all day every day and if you ate none your body would still make it.

So that you like the taste of your food the human tongue contains receptors for MSG that have evolved specifically to detect that compound, which fits into their protein structure like a key into a lock.

It is not "unnatural!"

But why use MSG in the first place? If you are a good cook, you will not need it, and you might have forgotten my post #50 already.

[partington]

Could it be that you're allergic to the Idea of having MSG in your food? as repeated medical testing and trails

shoed that there is nothing wrong with MSG, unless you're a very special man...

My opinion from my research is that MSG is not something I want to eat. You are what you eat; literally, I think most people want to build the cells that comprise their body from natural whole foods not synthetic compounds like MSG.

Many food additives have been “studied” in medical trials and found harmless. Would you feel comfortable eating the feces of genetically modified E Coli bacteria? It’s been studied and approved the trade name of the product is Aspartame. MSG is approved but personally I just don’t trust the research.

At the risk of boring even myself, I have to repeat yet again MSG is a compound that is made every day inside your body by all your cells.

It is the salt of one of the 20 amino acids that your body uses to build all your proteins including muscle, liver, kidneys. It is present in your blood all day every day and if you ate none your body would still make it.

So that you like the taste of your food the human tongue contains receptors for MSG that have evolved specifically to detect that compound, which fits into their protein structure like a key into a lock.

It is not "unnatural!"

But why use MSG in the first place? If you are a good cook, you will not need it, and you might have forgotten my post #50 already.

Not every one IS a good cook. So what if you are not? Why not add MSG? Some people really like it- I do, for one, and prefer food with it. The overwhelming majority of the vast population of Asia does also, as evidenced by the huge and enthusiastic consumption of it here in nearly every country and every dish.

All properly conducted clinical studies show that the vast majority of people are simply not bothered at all by MSG, (and this includes subjects selected for the trial on the basis of their own belief that they have a severe reaction to MSG!). At the quantities used in food preparation there are no confirmed health risks at all. Even the sodium content is, gram for gram, two and a half times less in MSG than common salt...

Optional boring PS:

The paper you linked to in your post #50, has nothing whatever to do with the effect of dietary glutamate on Alzheimer's or memory loss and is not even remotely connected with this topic.

Firstly many neurons in the brain communicate with each other actually using glutamate - so-called "glutamatergic" neurons . That is, one cell makes glutamate and releases it , and receptors on the other cell pick it up. This triggers a response -usually the inflow and outflow of ions like calcium and sodium that cause a nerve impulse to be transmitted along the nerve.

In disease states like Alzheimer's the natural functioning of these neurons, that is their response to glutamate signalling from other neurons, can cause an abnormal imbalance of calcium that can damage the cell.

This is the so called "glutamate neurotoxicity" they were studying- how normal cell signalling that occurs every day in the brain via glutamate can become disturbed by the beta-Amyloid protein that builds up in Alzheimer's. They added glutamate to the cells in a dish to mimic this normal signalling.

What it was absolutely nothing to do with at all is dietary MSG, and there was no implication in the paper that these workers were even considering this!!

The reason is simple: because glutamate is a natural signalling molecule in the brain dietary glutamate is never permitted to enter the brain ! There is a structure, both physical and chemical called the "blood brain barrier" that prevents glutamate from entering the brain from the bloodstream. So your brain is physically unable to be affected by dietary MSG.

In any case it has been definitively shown by many studies that 95% or more of the glutamate that you eat, including MSG, never leaves the cells that make up the gut: it is made into proteins or used as fuel locally, so that by eating MSG it is nearly impossible to change your blood level of glutamate significantly.

For these reasons you have misunderstood both the intent and the implications of the paper you cited.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/2/376.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

Edited July 22, 2014 by partington

[wilcopops]

There is very little chance the OP is allergic to MSG,very few people are.

Edited July 22, 2014 by wilcopops

[maxjay]

The safest way to avoid it is:

Don't eat at the noodle soup shops/stalls. The broth is full of it. Easy enough to make your own broth: boil a whole chicken, add seasonings of your choice, noodles can be bought at any store.

Most of the foods you see in the steam tables at food courts, is pre-prepared and most likely full of it.

Order foods fresh cooked, IE: stir fried veggies /some kind of meat or seafood or fish, pad Thai, pak krapow gai, etc., etc.

And remember what I posted yesterday:

This is what do. I had a Thai person write this down on a small card, I keep in my wallet. I show the card to the people at restaurants, and the cooks:

From Google Translate:

English: "Please. I do not want MSG added to my food. Thank you."

Thai: "กรุณา ฉันไม่ต้องการผงชูรสในอาหารของฉัน ขอบคุณ"

Don't rely on Thai's understanding on what you are saying. I've found it best to show them in Thai script.

FYI. MSG is in most Thai foods.

I don't think I'm allergic to it, but. It gives me a headache when I eat foods that contain it.

Simple really.

Edited July 22, 2014 by maxjay

[fxe1200]

My opinion from my research is that MSG is not something I want to eat. You are what you eat; literally, I think most people want to build the cells that comprise their body from natural whole foods not synthetic compounds like MSG.

Many food additives have been “studied” in medical trials and found harmless. Would you feel comfortable eating the feces of genetically modified E Coli bacteria? It’s been studied and approved the trade name of the product is Aspartame. MSG is approved but personally I just don’t trust the research.

At the risk of boring even myself, I have to repeat yet again MSG is a compound that is made every day inside your body by all your cells.

It is the salt of one of the 20 amino acids that your body uses to build all your proteins including muscle, liver, kidneys. It is present in your blood all day every day and if you ate none your body would still make it.

So that you like the taste of your food the human tongue contains receptors for MSG that have evolved specifically to detect that compound, which fits into their protein structure like a key into a lock.

It is not "unnatural!"

But why use MSG in the first place? If you are a good cook, you will not need it, and you might have forgotten my post #50 already.

Not every one IS a good cook. So what if you are not? Why not add MSG? Some people really like it- I do, for one, and prefer food with it. The overwhelming majority of the vast population of Asia does also, as evidenced by the huge and enthusiastic consumption of it here in nearly every country and every dish.

All properly conducted clinical studies show that the vast majority of people are simply not bothered at all by MSG, (and this includes subjects selected for the trial on the basis of their own belief that they have a severe reaction to MSG!). At the quantities used in food preparation there are no confirmed health risks at all. Even the sodium content is, gram for gram, two and a half times less in MSG than common salt...

Optional boring PS:

The paper you linked to in your post #50, has nothing whatever to do with the effect of dietary glutamate on Alzheimer's or memory loss and is not even remotely connected with this topic.

Firstly many neurons in the brain communicate with each other actually using glutamate - so-called "glutamatergic" neurons . That is, one cell makes glutamate and releases it , and receptors on the other cell pick it up. This triggers a response -usually the inflow and outflow of ions like calcium and sodium that cause a nerve impulse to be transmitted along the nerve.

In disease states like Alzheimer's the natural functioning of these neurons, that is their response to glutamate signalling from other neurons, can cause an abnormal imbalance of calcium that can damage the cell.

This is the so called "glutamate neurotoxicity" they were studying- how normal cell signalling that occurs every day in the brain via glutamate can become disturbed by the beta-Amyloid protein that builds up in Alzheimer's. They added glutamate to the cells in a dish to mimic this normal signalling.

What it was absolutely nothing to do with at all is dietary MSG, and there was no implication in the paper that these workers were even considering this!!

The reason is simple: because glutamate is a natural signalling molecule in the brain dietary glutamate is never permitted to enter the brain ! There is a structure, both physical and chemical called the "blood brain barrier" that prevents glutamate from entering the brain from the bloodstream. So your brain is physically unable to be affected by dietary MSG.

In any case it has been definitively shown by many studies that 95% or more of the glutamate that you eat, including MSG, never leaves the cells that make up the gut: it is made into proteins or used as fuel locally, so that by eating MSG it is nearly impossible to change your blood level of glutamate significantly.

For these reasons you have misunderstood both the intent and the implications of the paper you cited.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/2/376.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

"Glutamate is a pivotal transmitter in the brain, the crucial link in circuits involved in memory, learning and perception. Too much glutamate leads to seizures and the death of brain cells. Excessive glutamate release is also one of the main reasons that people have brain damage after strokes. Too little glutamate can cause psychosis, coma and death." (Dr. Schoepp- NY Times) Where is a " blood- brain- barrier" when I still can sleep, whilst others suffer from migraine (http://ezinearticles.com/?Got-Migraines?-Hidden-Ingredient-in-Your-Food-May-Be-the-Culprit&id=888663)?

Same article: Neurologists specializing in migraine treatment have noted a correlation between monosodium glutamate (MSG) and migraines. Patients of such noted neurologists were able to decrease their number of migraines to a minimal amount after being placed on a MSG-free diet.

The Journal of American Medical Association identifies MSG as a trigger for migraines.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/888663

[wilcopops]

MSG is largely an urban myth started by a TV chef on US TV. The hype is similar to that surrounding recreational drug use ....just compare the reporting on it to alcohol.

the most obvious flaw in the argument is seen when you era;use its use is endemic in several Large populations throughout the world who show no difference to countries where it is seldom used.

Hysteria versus common sense and genuine evidence

Edited July 22, 2014 by wilcopops

[partington]

At the risk of boring even myself, I have to repeat yet again MSG is a compound that is made every day inside your body by all your cells.

It is the salt of one of the 20 amino acids that your body uses to build all your proteins including muscle, liver, kidneys. It is present in your blood all day every day and if you ate none your body would still make it.

So that you like the taste of your food the human tongue contains receptors for MSG that have evolved specifically to detect that compound, which fits into their protein structure like a key into a lock.

It is not "unnatural!"

But why use MSG in the first place? If you are a good cook, you will not need it, and you might have forgotten my post #50 already.

Not every one IS a good cook. So what if you are not? Why not add MSG? Some people really like it- I do, for one, and prefer food with it. The overwhelming majority of the vast population of Asia does also, as evidenced by the huge and enthusiastic consumption of it here in nearly every country and every dish.

All properly conducted clinical studies show that the vast majority of people are simply not bothered at all by MSG, (and this includes subjects selected for the trial on the basis of their own belief that they have a severe reaction to MSG!). At the quantities used in food preparation there are no confirmed health risks at all. Even the sodium content is, gram for gram, two and a half times less in MSG than common salt...

Optional boring PS:

The paper you linked to in your post #50, has nothing whatever to do with the effect of dietary glutamate on Alzheimer's or memory loss and is not even remotely connected with this topic.

Firstly many neurons in the brain communicate with each other actually using glutamate - so-called "glutamatergic" neurons . That is, one cell makes glutamate and releases it , and receptors on the other cell pick it up. This triggers a response -usually the inflow and outflow of ions like calcium and sodium that cause a nerve impulse to be transmitted along the nerve.

In disease states like Alzheimer's the natural functioning of these neurons, that is their response to glutamate signalling from other neurons, can cause an abnormal imbalance of calcium that can damage the cell.

This is the so called "glutamate neurotoxicity" they were studying- how normal cell signalling that occurs every day in the brain via glutamate can become disturbed by the beta-Amyloid protein that builds up in Alzheimer's. They added glutamate to the cells in a dish to mimic this normal signalling.

What it was absolutely nothing to do with at all is dietary MSG, and there was no implication in the paper that these workers were even considering this!!

The reason is simple: because glutamate is a natural signalling molecule in the brain dietary glutamate is never permitted to enter the brain ! There is a structure, both physical and chemical called the "blood brain barrier" that prevents glutamate from entering the brain from the bloodstream. So your brain is physically unable to be affected by dietary MSG.

In any case it has been definitively shown by many studies that 95% or more of the glutamate that you eat, including MSG, never leaves the cells that make up the gut: it is made into proteins or used as fuel locally, so that by eating MSG it is nearly impossible to change your blood level of glutamate significantly.

For these reasons you have misunderstood both the intent and the implications of the paper you cited.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/2/376.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

"Glutamate is a pivotal transmitter in the brain, the crucial link in circuits involved in memory, learning and perception. Too much glutamate leads to seizures and the death of brain cells. Excessive glutamate release is also one of the main reasons that people have brain damage after strokes. Too little glutamate can cause psychosis, coma and death." (Dr. Schoepp- NY Times) Where is a " blood- brain- barrier" when I still can sleep, whilst others suffer from migraine (http://ezinearticles.com/?Got-Migraines?-Hidden-Ingredient-in-Your-Food-May-Be-the-Culprit&id=888663)?

Same article: Neurologists specializing in migraine treatment have noted a correlation between monosodium glutamate (MSG) and migraines. Patients of such noted neurologists were able to decrease their number of migraines to a minimal amount after being placed on a MSG-free diet.

The Journal of American Medical Association identifies MSG as a trigger for migraines.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/888663

The article you quote is a completely unreliable and untrustworthy source. It was produced by an unidentifiable web blogger who finishes the article with a recommendation to "come to my site nomoremigraines.com". The "facts" quoted within it are therefore not validated in any way, and could be entirely made up. If it were true it would have been published in a medical journal and these are the only sources I trust-primary science sources only please.

You are wrong about The Journal of The American Medical Association. This is a peer reviewed journal that is a vehicle for individual research groups to publish their findings. It, as a journal does not back up or support the positions of any single paper that it publishes, and has frequently published individual papers that do not agree with each other.

Quotes from doctors in the absence of peer reviewed published evidence does not count either I'm afraid, and the NY Times is not a source of clinical data that would be quoted by any genuine biomedical researcher.

Nevertheless you have again misunderstood the statements quoted. "Glutamate release" as I went to some pains to explain before (!) means glutamate release inside the brain , by nerve cells in the brain. It does not mean glutamate from the diet, and the blood brain barrier is irrelevant, because the glutamate being talked about is the glutamate made inside the brain, by glutamatergic nerve cells that are already in there. Did you read anything I wrote at all???

I'm glad you have used your "truth about MSG" site to find other unverified "health risks" attributed wrongly to MSG, and at least have backed off from the absurd suggestion that researchers think MSG "causes" Alzheimer's!

[fxe1200]

MSG is largely an urban myth started by a TV chef on US TV. The hype is similar to that surrounding recreational drug use ....just compare the reporting on it to alcohol.

the most obvious flaw in the argument is seen when you era;use its use is endemic in several Large populations throughout the world who show no difference to countries where it is seldom used.

Hysteria versus common sense and genuine evidence

Great, now I can believe you guys: The "china restaurant syndrome" is a lie, and that I cannot sleep, after having consumed MSG-contaminated food is pure imagination. And pigs can fly. How are your shares performing? http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/2802:JP

Edited July 22, 2014 by fxe1200