How will the new visa regulations change Thailand's expat community?

[DaveWalsh]

Things will change. There will be far fewer English Teachers, for starters

Chiang Mai -- not so long ago known as the hub of IT nomads -- will see its western expat community diminish.

Boiler rooms in BKK may well dry up.

Expats who've drawn the short straw will still be here. And they'll be as envious as ever of their counterparts working in Singapore, Tokyo, Europe, American or the Middle East.

The number of retirees won't change.

What else? I think this forum will take a nose dive. And I think the new ThaiVisa bar in BKK may bomb.

[pigeonjake]

more doom and gloom,

[ukrules]

I don't think it will make that much difference at all really.

[DaveWalsh]

more doom and gloom,

Not for people like you.

I read your tales of pig farming over by the Cambodian border. I also read your stories about earning piles of cash in Iraq.

You'll survive comfortably on either an "O" visa or (perhaps) an Elite Card.

You'll be okay.

[DaveWalsh]

3. A cyber worker visa

Agreed. The world has changed. Tons of people now work from home and use the internet to make money.

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

But "cyber workers" are different. I have read that lots of these guys congregate in Chiang Mai. They offer a whole range of services (SEO, copy writing, programming, etc), and by all accounts are often very good.

I think these guys should be entitled to (as you put it) a "cyber visa" costing 50K - 100K per year. The relatively high cost would obviate the need to pay tax.

[David48]

I don't think it will make that much difference at all really.

I agree ... it will just force Tourists,long stayers and married to the more appropiate Visas.

The rock has been thrown into the pond ... we are experiencing the ripple effect.

That will die down until the next rock is tossed in.

.

[David48]

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

Dave has obviously never spent time with the Diplomatic core ...

Could I offer up the possibility that 'first rate expats' do things that are motivated by other things then monetary gain? Hence a 'Thailand Opportunity' is acceptable?

.

[DaveWalsh]

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

Dave has obviously never spent time with the Diplomatic core ...

Civil servants earn the same wherever they're posted.

For an aspiring diplomat, BKK might be a useful first rung of the ladder, but it'll only ever be a stepping stone.

For a private sector employee, BKK is very much the short straw.

EXAMPLE

I once spoke to an HR Manager in London. The company maintained offices in NYC, Sao Paulo, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore and BKK.

The office in BKK never pulled in much cash. It was the least profitable of the company's overseas operations.

So I asked the HR Manager why they kept the BKK office.

The HR Manager laughed and said: "if we didn't have the Bangkok office, where else would we transfer the wan_kers".

True story.

[Tim207]

I think some posters will get so jittery that they post the same topic twice.

[David48]

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

Dave has obviously never spent time with the Diplomatic core ...

Civil servants earn the same wherever they're posted.

For an aspiring diplomat, BKK might be a useful first rung of the ladder, but it'll only ever be a stepping stone.

For a private sector employee, BKK is very much the short straw.

EXAMPLE

I once spoke to an HR Manager in London. The company maintained offices in NYC, Sao Paulo, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore and BKK.

The office in BKK never pulled in much cash. It was the least profitable of the company's overseas operations.

So I asked the HR Manager why they kept the BKK office.

The HR Manager laughed and said: "if we didn't have the Bangkok office, where else would we transfer the wan_kers".

True story.

Dear Dave ... can I call you Dave?

You seem to have missed the point, so maybe I sharpen your focus.

My actual post also included 'Could I offer up the possibility that 'first rate expats' do things that are motivated by other things then monetary gain? Hence a 'Thailand Opportunity' is acceptable?

So Dave the reference to the 'Diplomatic core' was aimed directly at you who, in a sweeping and absolute statement basically said that ANY expat working in Thailand is 2^nd or 3^rd rate at their profession ...

May I suggest that your 'People Management' skills have not been a high point in your career to date and to truly succeed in the business world you sharpen this aspect.

May I also suggest again that that 'first rate expats' do things that are motivated by other things then monetary gain?

Just my humble thoughts ... digest from that what you will.

.

[DaveWalsh]

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

Dave has obviously never spent time with the Diplomatic core ...

Civil servants earn the same wherever they're posted.

For an aspiring diplomat, BKK might be a useful first rung of the ladder, but it'll only ever be a stepping stone.

For a private sector employee, BKK is very much the short straw.

EXAMPLE

I once spoke to an HR Manager in London. The company maintained offices in NYC, Sao Paulo, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore and BKK.

The office in BKK never pulled in much cash. It was the least profitable of the company's overseas operations.

So I asked the HR Manager why they kept the BKK office.

The HR Manager laughed and said: "if we didn't have the Bangkok office, where else would we transfer the wan_kers".

True story.

Dear Dave ... can I call you Dave?

You seem to have missed the point, so maybe I sharpen your focus.

My actual post also included 'Could I offer up the possibility that 'first rate expats' do things that are motivated by other things then monetary gain? Hence a 'Thailand Opportunity' is acceptable?

So Dave the reference to the 'Diplomatic core' was aimed directly at you who, in a sweeping and absolute statement basically said that ANY expat working in Thailand is 2^nd or 3^rd rate at their profession ...

May I suggest that your 'People Management' skills have not been a high point in your career to date and to truly succeed in the business world you sharpen this aspect.

May I also suggest again that that 'first rate expats' do things that are motivated by other things then monetary gain?

Just my humble thoughts ... digest from that what you will.

No. You've gone astray.

A guy named JingThing suggested a CYBER VISA.

I think such a visa is needed. It would enable talented westerners (some of whom earn more than 1000 USD per day) to remain in Thailand and work legally.

By contrast, work permits are readily available for "conventional employees" who are transferred here from their own countries. In my opinion, these people are generally mediocrities. Not all, but most.

I support Mr JingThing's proposal. I support wholeheartedly the idea that gifted youngsters (and oldsters, too) can set up shop in places like Chiang Mai and LEGALLY work, develop their skills, and contribute to the local economy.

[NeverSure]

3. A cyber worker visa

Agreed. The world has changed. Tons of people now work from home and use the internet to make money.

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

But "cyber workers" are different. I have read that lots of these guys congregate in Chiang Mai. They offer a whole range of services (SEO, copy writing, programming, etc), and by all accounts are often very good.

I think these guys should be entitled to (as you put it) a "cyber visa" costing 50K - 100K per year. The relatively high cost would obviate the need to pay tax.

I don't understand your thinking. I have a friend, now retired, who was pretty high on the ladder with Bank of America. He actively sought positions in foreign countries for the experience and change. His first such assignment was in a dirty 3rd world place called London, LOL.

He was earning about US$200k per year as a top executive in whatever country he was in. Before he retired he did a 3 year rotation in Bangkok with salary plus a nice expense package.

Would this be one of those 3rd rate guys?

[Rooo]

Post flaming a member & responses removed.

[ATF]

Dave have you had some sort of epiphany? Like St. Paul on the road to Damascus?

The only major change I see will be Western English Teachers being replaced by Filipinos due to the new Asean regulations being enforced next year.

Expats mostly decide to live in Thailand for reasons other than maximum financial gain.

Visas are and always will be available for those willing to pay for them. Regarding people who decide it is in their best interests to permanently exist on free 30 or 15 day walkaround entry stamps their days have ceased to exist. That's old news.

Regarding the demise of TV can't see that happening and George has been in Thailand long enough to realize that no one ever made billions from running a bar, at least in Thailand anyway.

[AYJAYDEE]

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

Dave has obviously never spent time with the Diplomatic core ...

Civil servants earn the same wherever they're posted.

For an aspiring diplomat, BKK might be a useful first rung of the ladder, but it'll only ever be a stepping stone.

For a private sector employee, BKK is very much the short straw.

EXAMPLE

I once spoke to an HR Manager in London. The company maintained offices in NYC, Sao Paulo, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore and BKK.

The office in BKK never pulled in much cash. It was the least profitable of the company's overseas operations.

So I asked the HR Manager why they kept the BKK office.

The HR Manager laughed and said: "if we didn't have the Bangkok office, where else would we transfer the wan_kers".

True story.

any company that transfers <deleted> rather than get rid of them is a foolish company. no wonder their BKK office is the least profitable.

[mrtoad]

Long time visa abusers will be cleaned out. The rest is business as usual

[pinkpanther99]

This shake up of the system is long overdue imo and I think that this is just as much of a crackdown by the powers that be on Immigration staff as is it is on foreigners. Many of these laws that are being talked about as being 'new' are not. They have always been in place, it is just now that Immigration staff are being told to do their jobs properly and enforce them - don't let people milk the system.

I agree with David48, what you're seeing now is a ripple effect. Long term it might actually be very good for the expat community here. You might start to see a better quality of expat (that sounds terrible I know). But what I'm trying to say is that these guys doing border runs every 30 days must have a reason? Is it lack of funds? Are they working here illegally? Are they running away from illegal activity in their home country? Maybe Thailand thinks it's better off without these people, I'd be inclined to agree to a certain point.

The guys I feel sorry for are the offshore workers, who actually probably have enough funds to support themselves here.

I also think Thailand should crackdown on Ed-Visa abuse and maybe look at creating some kind of visa for online workers or digital entrepreneurs. Why not become the hub (I know we've heard that many times before) for online start ups - the Silicon Valley of South East Asia?

[Kaymcdonnell]

We are in thailand where there is always a way around everything, already heard of a few.

more doom and gloom,

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

3. A cyber worker visa

Agreed. The world has changed. Tons of people now work from home and use the internet to make money.

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

But "cyber workers" are different. I have read that lots of these guys congregate in Chiang Mai. They offer a whole range of services (SEO, copy writing, programming, etc), and by all accounts are often very good.

I think these guys should be entitled to (as you put it) a "cyber visa" costing 50K - 100K per year. The relatively high cost would obviate the need to pay tax.

Not really sure where you get the idea that people working for MNC's differ in Thailand from anywhere else in the world? If you're not good in the first place, you won't get a job with them.

I know several who work in the 'Stans', Nigeria, Papua New Guinea, etc. Why would they even consider that?

Money perhaps?

I know several who work in Australia, taxed to death and strangled by the unions, who would give their eye teeth to get job in Thailand.

[harryfrompattaya]

It is time to crack down on these law breakers Thai doesn't need these people The Expat Community will be more high class

This a great idea and will improve Thailand for all

I am glad this is being done

Thanks

[Berkshire]

Agreed. The world has changed. Tons of people now work from home and use the internet to make money.

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

But "cyber workers" are different. I have read that lots of these guys congregate in Chiang Mai. They offer a whole range of services (SEO, copy writing, programming, etc), and by all accounts are often very good.

I think these guys should be entitled to (as you put it) a "cyber visa" costing 50K - 100K per year. The relatively high cost would obviate the need to pay tax.

How rather pretentious you are, Mr. Walsh. You seem rather upset and bitter about the recent Thai gov crackdown on visa runners. Your entire agenda appears to be: If you're in Thailand illegally, you must be golden. If you're here legally (e.g., MNCs), then you're crap. Does that about sum it up?

And then you include this little nugget in your OP...."Expats who've drawn the short straw will still be here." WT_F is that about? Is it preferred to be here or not?

Fact is, the impact within the expat community will be minimal. In greater Thailand, close to zero, in terms of impact to the common Thai.

[fabianfred]

I don't think there should be multiple standards.... One rule for all...

The migrant workers from burma get id cards and are able to work whereas farangs cannot.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thaimlord]

No. You've gone astray.

A guy named JingThing suggested a CYBER VISA.

I think such a visa is needed. It would enable talented westerners (some of whom earn more than 1000 USD per day) to remain in Thailand and work legally.

By contrast, work permits are readily available for "conventional employees" who are transferred here from their own countries. In my opinion, these people are generally mediocrities. Not all, but most.

I support Mr JingThing's proposal. I support wholeheartedly the idea that gifted youngsters (and oldsters, too) can set up shop in places like Chiang Mai and LEGALLY work, develop their skills, and contribute to the local economy.

Hi Dave

Can you please hook me up with one of these people who are making US$1k per day? I am relatively talented in the IT field but don't make anything even approaching this and would like to find out what they are doing to make $365k a year from it.

Please PM me with details. Appreciated.

Thanks

TL

[MrWorldwide]

We are in thailand where there is always a way around everything, already heard of a few.

more doom and gloom,

Reluctantly, I have to agree with this statement. Already seeing signs in the visa forum that Immigration may be stepping back from their initial hardline stance at the airports - I guess we wont really know until August 12 but logic dictates that they wont spend 20 minutes interviewing a sizeable percentage of arriving passengers re their travel history. I know TiT, but in anything approaching high season that would be a nightmare for all concerned.

Getting back to the OPs question, if the doomsayers are right and I have to walk away from the possessions I have here to start again in Cambodia. so be it - that was my plan B when I got on the plane in late April. I wouldnt be thrilled if it meant walking away from my Thai FCD account, but even that wouldnt break me - I still havent gone 'all in' anymore than I would have in Malaysia or Cambodia. The doomsayers only win if we let them win - curiously, they'll be nowhere in sight come November when those of us who live in tourist hotspots are deluged by the usual horde desperate to avoid the northern Winter for a few weeks.

[bangsaenguy]

Cleaning up the guys crossing the line is ok. Retirees will be ok. I am a bit concerned abut the offshore guys that are not eligible for a Type O. They are not abusing anything.

[samran]

OP

You forgot the 'final nail in the coffin' cliche in your first post.

[I knew this would happen]

It is time to crack down on these law breakers Thai doesn't need these people The Expat Community will be more high class

This a great idea and will improve Thailand for all

I am glad this is being done

Thanks

More high class...........

Greetings xxxxxfromPattaya

It´s ok if the Thais start to enforce their laws, but please, completely overhaul the whole Visa system then. Even if you´re legal it´s not really "fair". The Visa based on marriage is a good example- that´s a joke!! 90 days, no land, no rights, annual renew, ridiculous. If they really mean it they would have the chance to clean up and then modernise the whole system now. I hope things will get better soon, but there´s not much hope I guess. Don´t think the army is interested to make Thailand fairer or more open to foreigners (the root of all evil )

Edited July 22, 2014 by I knew this would happen

[Franky Bear]

Cleaning up the guys crossing the line is ok. Retirees will be ok. I am a bit concerned abut the offshore guys that are not eligible for a Type O. They are not abusing anything.

we are fine mate. I am 28/28. I flew out the other day and asked 3 diff immigration officers if i was ok, my passport if full of 28/28. They said, "no problem" I had also asked at soi 5 in Jomtien if i was ok, they said the same. I have had a mate i've known over 20 years come in the last few days with a passport similar to mine. They didn't bat an eye lid at Swampy.

[enuff said]

.

I hope there will be fewer down and out expat guys coming around trying to sell me bootlegged liquor, drugs and cigarettes.

'nuff said

(oh, and bragging about being a "tourist" for the last ten years)

~

[GuestHouse]

Work permits are handed out to people who, in my opinion, are generally either second rate (at best) or (more often) third rate.

Let's be honest -- how many first rate expats work for MNCs in Thailand? The answer is zero. First rate guys would never consider transferring to Thailand.

Perhaps you don't know how much MNCs are willing to pay first rate expats to get them to take up postings in Thailand.

Or perhaps you do but can't get one of those full expat deals.