Thai Airways – a parallel with Malaysia Airlines

[oldsailor35]

I like Thai once I'm on the aircraft but dealing with them before the flight is an archaic nightmare. Communications skills are zero, waiting times in the office and on the phones are interminable, their website won't load half the time, you get shuffled for person to person when you have a question and most are clueless - plus they are no longer financially competitive. Their prices can be insanely high at times. I do a lot of international long haul travel, maybe 30-40 flights a year, and I avoid them where possible. Whilst I mostly travel economy, their business class is shocking too - a selection of bad wines and dreadful food.

I found out too, recently, that they are no longer linked to my credit card for points - I was told by the card people they were a nightmare to deal with.

You sum it all up very well. Quite how they are ever going to resolve these problems when they insist on 'Thainess' running the company instead of real business brains i really do not know.

Look who runs Cathay Pacific Airlines. Not Chinese.

But QANTAS is run by an Irishman

[KarenBravo]

I like Thai once I'm on the aircraft but dealing with them before the flight is an archaic nightmare. Communications skills are zero, waiting times in the office and on the phones are interminable, their website won't load half the time, you get shuffled for person to person when you have a question and most are clueless - plus they are no longer financially competitive. Their prices can be insanely high at times. I do a lot of international long haul travel, maybe 30-40 flights a year, and I avoid them where possible. Whilst I mostly travel economy, their business class is shocking too - a selection of bad wines and dreadful food.

I found out too, recently, that they are no longer linked to my credit card for points - I was told by the card people they were a nightmare to deal with.

You sum it all up very well. Quite how they are ever going to resolve these problems when they insist on 'Thainess' running the company instead of real business brains i really do not know.

Look who runs Cathay Pacific Airlines. Not Chinese.

But QANTAS is run by an Irishman

No.....Qantas is run by its unions.

[oldsailor35]

The problem is they are always looking for a Thai to fill the position. They need to look outside of Thailand for someone who is qualified.

First thing I thought myself, and not the first time either.

How bizarre that one of the most popular tourism countries in the world's national airline can not make a profit.

That's a bit like a guy with a full water truck of nice chilled Evian in the middle of the Sahara dessert can't make money from a captive audience of 1000 multi-billionaires dying of thirst.

Up until 2008, Thai Airways was profitable for 40 straight years which is fairly unheard of in the Airline industry. 2012 I believe was the 2nd year in 51 years they lost money. Generally Airlines are not a wise risk for investors and few bring much returns to investors. The Asian market has become even more of a challenge due to a number of reasons including people choosing to fly with the budget airlines. I believe Singapore Airline reported about a 60% loss in profits in Q4 and 5% overall for the year. Big players such as American Airlines continues to run Asian routes even though they are unprofitable with the hope of future profits. Competition and margines are very tight in the highly regulated industry where so many unforseen and uncontrollable events can have huge impacts on losses.

Not saying Thai doesn't need better management, like MANY western companies but it is just beyond foolish to say they need to go outside the country for leadership.

Rubbish. Thailand is a country controlled by nepotism and corruption, this is all they know. So to ever be successful again Thai Air has to go outside its borders for competent management.

[oldsailor35]

I've noticed the Thai Airways hostesses (sorry, I mean flight attendants ) on the Perth - Bangkok run

are getting older and not all are lovely like they used to be.

Thai airways should replace them with crews from Nok Air or Smile Air !

- These young ladies are fresh, eager to please and mostly stunners!

You should see some of the old slappers flying cabin staff with QANTAS., however the unions have got a lot to do with this.

[oldsailor35]

Thai Airways International reports (16-Jul-2014) the following traffic highlights in Jun-2014:

• Passenger numbers: 1.1 million, -31.3% year-on-year;
• Passenger traffic (RPKs): -22.9%;
• Passenger load factor: 59.2%, -10 ppts;
• • Domestic: 60.5%, -5.0 ppts;
  • Regional: 60.2%, -13.0 ppts;
  • Australia: 61.5%, -8.2 ppts;
  • Europe: 56.3%, -7.7 ppts;
  • North Pacific: 74.9%, -6.1 ppts;
  • Africa: 48.4%, -10.8 ppts;
• Cargo volume: 50,548 tons, -1.2%;
• Cargo load factor: 54.3%, +4.1 ppts.

Probably sounding dumb. But what is Cargo Load Factor

[oldsailor35]

I used to fly BKK-Brisbane ret quite often. Use my FF points to fly on to Samui economy. Then i noticed that on booking "Sorry only business class" which used up more points. During flight i would walk back from bis only to discover empty economy seats. Another smart business decision ! I dont fly Thai anymore.

[oldsailor35]

Putting a big cheese from the Air Force in charge, who has zero experience of running a large corporation (but who is the flavour of the month), will definitely help to improve the situation.

What do "big cheeses" in the military actually do?

Answer: They run very, very large organisations.

Suggesting that senior military leaders (Thai or otherwise) are incapable of organising operations of large organisations suggests a clear ignorance of what senior military officers actually do.

(Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with the Thai military, but I have worked with multi-starred Generals and down the heirachy on a joint civilian/military project in the US and they were very impressive)

We are talking of the Thai military here, you know, the army with more Generals than fleas on a dogs back, many with Mia Nois and well used golf clubs, The very ones who hang around Bangkok with no idea or little intention of sorting the terrorist problem in the Southern border regions. How on earth can you equate this 'mob' with US Military upper echelons. If that is what you expect me to believe, then god help us all.

Edited July 24, 2014 by oldsailor35

[oldsailor35]

I like Thai once I'm on the aircraft but dealing with them before the flight is an archaic nightmare. Communications skills are zero, waiting times in the office and on the phones are interminable, their website won't load half the time, you get shuffled for person to person when you have a question and most are clueless - plus they are no longer financially competitive. Their prices can be insanely high at times. I do a lot of international long haul travel, maybe 30-40 flights a year, and I avoid them where possible. Whilst I mostly travel economy, their business class is shocking too - a selection of bad wines and dreadful food.

I found out too, recently, that they are no longer linked to my credit card for points - I was told by the card people they were a nightmare to deal with.

You sum it all up very well. Quite how they are ever going to resolve these problems when they insist on 'Thainess' running the company instead of real business brains i really do not know.

Look who runs Cathay Pacific Airlines. Not Chinese.

But QANTAS is run by an Irishman

Should have inserted the word "down" after "run"

[ginjag]

Putting a big cheese from the Air Force in charge, who has zero experience of running a large corporation (but who is the flavour of the month), will definitely help to improve the situation.

What do "big cheeses" in the military actually do?

Answer: They run very, very large organisations.

Suggesting that senior military leaders (Thai or otherwise) are incapable of organising operations of large organisations suggests a clear ignorance of what senior military officers actually do.

(Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with the Thai military, but I have worked with multi-starred Generals and down the heirachy on a joint civilian/military project in the US and they were very impressive)

We are talking of the Thai military here, you know, the guys with more Generals than fleas on a dogs back, many with Mia Nois and well used golf clubs, The very ones who hang around Bangkok with no idea or little intention of sorting the terrorist problem in the Southern border regions. How on earth can you equate this 'mob' with US Military upper echelons. If that is what you expect me to believe, then god help us all.

Sounds like your going to have a wonderful time here, Yingluck and Chalerm did wonders didn't they ??? I would try to get used to it here if I was you, or you could be in for immigration probs. Did you kick your father when you lived at home ???

[PaullyW]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned deplaning onto a scorching hot tarmac after a LH flight to be sardined into cheap, hot buses. Really ridiculous.

[pauleddy]

I have been watching this thread closely, and there are evidently some airline professionals posting. Thanks for the input. I can only comment as a Biz Class punter on LH and an Air Asia idiot when I go to KL.

However, it does seem the consensus is that Thai (TG) is way down there in the league. It has helped me to realise that my Qatar flights are superb (despite 1.45 hours in the new Doha Biz Lounge with as much good claret and cheese as I need PLUS two main dinner services because the flights in/from the hub are different: BKK-DOH-MAD or LHR)

The other point is the fleet. I have never been on a Qatar plane which is over a year old. The last plane still had plastic covers from Boeing on the soap dish (or something like that). And all for 44,000 less than TG!

There is a God, after all!

Eddy

[Trouble]

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I think they need an experienced European airline executive to run this company. While I'm an American, the on board service has been degraded so much in America that most of our airline leaders are just cost cutters without thought to passenger comfort. I suspect there is at least one German out there with the experience to turn this airline around while improving their service too.

Have in the last few years had a number of occasions flown on some of the European Airlines within Europe. Granted they were short flights but the service seemed no better on these airlines than on US carriers: Boarding the same, security lines the same, cattle on and off the aircraft, and same service. Let's face the facts that the public generally does not want to pay for what it costs to fly. Costs for the airlines have continued to escalate so the airlines have continued to find ways to cut costs. I don't think there is an American carrier that serves food in coach on domestic flights anymore. Hawaiian Airlines is the only airline that serves a meal in coach to and from mainland to Hawaii. So yes CEO's now are looking for everyday possible to cut costs. Quite frankly, I can no longer do a long haul in coach and even in Business I find the food terrible. They try much too hard to get some gourmet chef to figure out meals that really are much too overdone for airline travel and don't do well served hours into a flight.

I have only flown Thai within Thailand but found that it is all the same a boxed lunch, flight staff that needs to get everything done in a given amount of time and trash collected before landing. It is the same everywhere mostly because the flight staff is tired of putting on a fake smile and no longer do so. I still find Hawaii Airlines the best in coach as the flight crew really tries and has that aloha spirit. It's still cattle class but the service is a notch above the rest because the attitude of the crew is better. No, I don't work for Hawaiian Airlines.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I think they need an experienced European airline executive to run this company. While I'm an American, the on board service has been degraded so much in America that most of our airline leaders are just cost cutters without thought to passenger comfort. I suspect there is at least one German out there with the experience to turn this airline around while improving their service too.

As we all know, Swissair went TU some years back. There must be some big shots that are familiar we nepotism and top heavy management in general.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

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I think they need an experienced European airline executive to run this company. While I'm an American, the on board service has been degraded so much in America that most of our airline leaders are just cost cutters without thought to passenger comfort. I suspect there is at least one German out there with the experience to turn this airline around while improving their service too.

Have in the last few years had a number of occasions flown on some of the European Airlines within Europe. Granted they were short flights but the service seemed no better on these airlines than on US carriers: Boarding the same, security lines the same, cattle on and off the aircraft, and same service. Let's face the facts that the public generally does not want to pay for what it costs to fly. Costs for the airlines have continued to escalate so the airlines have continued to find ways to cut costs. I don't think there is an American carrier that serves food in coach on domestic flights anymore. Hawaiian Airlines is the only airline that serves a meal in coach to and from mainland to Hawaii. So yes CEO's now are looking for everyday possible to cut costs. Quite frankly, I can no longer do a long haul in coach and even in Business I find the food terrible. They try much too hard to get some gourmet chef to figure out meals that really are much too overdone for airline travel and don't do well served hours into a flight.

I have only flown Thai within Thailand but found that it is all the same a boxed lunch, flight staff that needs to get everything done in a given amount of time and trash collected before landing. It is the same everywhere mostly because the flight staff is tired of putting on a fake smile and no longer do so. I still find Hawaii Airlines the best in coach as the flight crew really tries and has that aloha spirit. It's still cattle class but the service is a notch above the rest because the attitude of the crew is better. No, I don't work for Hawaiian Airlines.

I thought that they now have a 7eleven on bord for food purchase in the US. LOL It may not be easy to work for Korean, but the inflight service is one of the best for the pax. Hard nosed pilot management, legends in their own mind, ex military pilots. Recently I flew on QATAR via Doha. On descent we where advised of the "holly month of Ramadan" and we should not eat or drink in public places. I am a Christian by birth and find it arrogant to be asked to adhere to other religions after they took my money. We don't ask muslims to celebrate Christams.

Give it some thought on your next travel where to spend your money

[DrDweeb]

Putting a big cheese from the Air Force in charge, who has zero experience of running a large corporation (but who is the flavour of the month), will definitely help to improve the situation.

What do "big cheeses" in the military actually do?

Answer: They run very, very large organisations.

Suggesting that senior military leaders (Thai or otherwise) are incapable of organising operations of large organisations suggests a clear ignorance of what senior military officers actually do.

(Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with the Thai military, but I have worked with multi-starred Generals and down the heirachy on a joint civilian/military project in the US and they were very impressive)

We are talking of the Thai military here, you know, the army with more Generals than fleas on a dogs back, many with Mia Nois and well used golf clubs, The very ones who hang around Bangkok with no idea or little intention of sorting the terrorist problem in the Southern border regions. How on earth can you equate this 'mob' with US Military upper echelons. If that is what you expect me to believe, then god help us all.

Unlike you, I make no claims of knowledge about the efficacy, efficiency or otherwise of the Thai military. I merely point out that senior military figures with whom I have worked were impressive. In the two countries in fact.

TV is full of Thai bashers, the majority of which seem to have "lost in love" and are stranded, needing an outlet for their anger. Fine, that is their (your?) choice.

In any case, I try to ignore the blatant Thai bashing, especially when, like this case, you effectively claim that senior military staff in Thailand are a "mob" and by inference all incompetent. I do not know this to be true, and neither (I predict) do you. It is not ipso facto true that a Royal Thai Airforce general is incompetent.

[KarenBravo]

Thirty years ago, the best three Asian airlines were:-

Singapore Airlines

Thai International

Cathy Pacific.

There really wasn't much between them.

Since then, the LCC model of running an airline has come into existence. This has put a lot of pressure on full-service airlines to justify the extra that the passenger must pay and to cut costs at the same time to ensure profitability.

For Thai International, this has been hard. Employees, ex-employees, MPs and many cronies are entitled to free, or reduced cost flights. Many of the higher echelon of these free-loaders are also entitled to free accommodation and food at Thai International's expense.

We are not talking small numbers here. They number in the hundreds, possibly low thousands.

Add to this that heading up Thai International is considered a plum job and is usually a political appointment, there is no way that the management can curtail these freebies as that will hurt the very people that put them in the position.

Thai international have built themselves an unlevel playing field and they have an up-hill struggle.

They also follow the Thai economic practice of when demand for services lessens, prices go up to try and maintain profitability.

In addition, Thai were very short-sighted and were one of the last SE Asian airlines to set up an LCC sister airline. Singapore airlines created Silk Air, a respected regional airline and Tiger Airlines.

The best thing that Thai International could do is go 100% private.

Edited July 28, 2014 by KarenBravo

[ABCer]

There are many problems dogging almost every International Airline of today. In most cases it is not the quality of personnel, not the ineffective top Management. Airlines around the World are being robbed of their profits by the so called 'Fees and Charges' imposed by Airports on the ground.

In the past decade the prices of tickets jumped relatively low. The 'Fees and Charges' have almost quadrupled. Look at the components of your overall ticket price. In many cases todays 'Fees and Charges' are about 50% of the total cost.

Terrorism? Maybe, but somebody makes good money on it. Without even getting off the ground.