Troublesome Honda Click

[ClareQuilty]

I bought a first generation (circa '08) Honda Click for 5,000 baht a while ago, as some may remember seeing reported on here. The bike ran and drove well, with low kilometers, and the engine was in good order. A few months into owning the bike the wiring burnt up (complete with smoke), which led to an expensive repair and continuing electrical problems which have taken months to sort out.

Now, finally, the lights, battery, horn, starter, and all that seem to be working fine, but the now the bike's engine is in a bad way. Its a rental bike, and though the oil was changed every other month, it apparently was run with very low oil by the last renter, and now the mechanic says the engine is 'mai-dee' (as they say).

The way this manifests itself is not so much in the running of the bike - it still drives quite well once its warmed up a little - but in the starting of the bike: the bike will only start via the electrical start if the engine has previously been run a while and is nice and warm.

For cold starts - the first start of the day or in our current chilly, rainy weather after the bike's been shut off say an hour or so - the engine will only start via kick-start (though it starts without much difficulty that way).

What I can't figure out is why this is the case - there's loads of battery, the starter is turning the engine for ages, but it just won't start that way when the engine is cold.

[VocalNeal]

Is it fuel injected or carburetor?

Do you have any booster cables that you can attach to your car to check that the battery is in fact not the problem? Usually the reason for not starting on the button IS the battery. In the good old days sometimes cars would start when one released the key. Because although the battery will trun the engine there is not enough left for the ignition or the FI.

Oh and add to the rental agreement that bikes have to be returned every ??? for inspection and maintenance? Our company rentals in Brazil were like that!

[ll2]

for 5000 thb anyway, no need to think much! if it is going, it is fine as a low end proper bicycle is around 3000 thb!

[ClareQuilty]

5,000 is a lot of money for some of us, II2.

VocalNeal, I don't know about the fuel injection, but given the age of the bike (first generation Click, about an '07 or '08), I'd assume it is carbureted.. on the other hand the absence of a choke suggests it might be fuel injected.

I'm pretty sure the battery is not the problem as it is very strong. The bike turns over very strongly and as long as you like to try it, but it just doesn't start.

That said, I noticed today in the warm sunlight the bike started via electric start after 24 hours sitting, so maybe its just related to the cold rainy weather.

[Bung]

Lesson learned I think. You would have spent a lot of money on fixing it already and sounds like more coming. I would sell it for 5000 and spend at least 20000 to get something reliable. That's less than $650 USD for a vehicle, really not a lot of money for anyone surely.

[ktm jeff]

Are you sure it doesnt have a carb , and its reluctance to start is because you arent using the choke ?. Does it have a lever on the carb , or a knob on the "dash".

[ClareQuilty]

Lesson learned I think. You would have spent a lot of money on fixing it already and sounds like more coming. I would sell it for 5000 and spend at least 20000 to get something reliable. That's less than $650 USD for a vehicle, really not a lot of money for anyone surely.

Yes, that's a lot of money. I'm a teacher in Thailand and rent these bikes to teachers for just 1,000-1,500/month. When you're making only 30,000 baht/month, 20,000 is a very high price to pay for anything. I'll probably just avoid automatics in the future and go back to my old two-strokes, which are invariably quite reliable even when purchased for less than 5,000.

Are you sure it doesnt have a carb , and its reluctance to start is because you arent using the choke ?. Does it have a lever on the carb , or a knob on the "dash".

No, there is definitely no choke there, nigel. I drive old two-strokes, so believe me I know chokes - use them every day.

[ktm jeff]

OK , just a thought.

[sotsira]

Worn piston rings and cylinder bore causes the symptoms described in the OP,

with difficulty of cold start, but ease in hot start due to temperature expansion creating

enough compression to ignite the fuel vapour.

Also the choke for cold start on most modern carburettor bikes are automatic, without manual

lever operation.

[ClareQuilty]

sotsira, that explanation makes perfect sense, and fits what the mechanics are saying - that the bike needs a rebuild. Thanks.

[Turkleton]

..........

..........

..........

..........Thanks.

And here we go again.....

ClareQuilty, the hub of "engine rebuilds".

Edited July 24, 2014 by Turkleton

[VocalNeal]

sotsira, that explanation makes perfect sense, and fits what the mechanics are saying - that the bike needs a rebuild. Thanks.

Can you feel much compression if you kick over the engine slowly.

There was a Yamaha thread on here somewhere about Yamahas not start in in cold weather. Whilst it cannot be proven without testing there is a temperature sensor somewhere that activates the enrichment for starting that could be faulty. It starts when "warm" but not from cold.

Sorry can't find an online parts diagram.

[Bung]

A 5000 baht scooter that had the be rewired. Now it needs a rebuild...how much have you spent fixing this bike? Are you late for work often trying to start this bike?

Just sounds like false economy to me. Did you really arrive here with no money, got a job teaching for a thousand bucks a month and have no savings to even buy a reliable form of transport?

[ll2]

yeah, you need to rebuild it and it will not be costing much.

lets say another 3000 thb and some more for 10 k you have still a bike that will cut your feet from the ground especially if you rent them for teachers.

still good value.

[namdocmai]

If you have a bike company then first buy a compression meter. They are very cheap and do a very good job.

If the compression sucks then buy piston with cilinder.

Maybe the humidity causes false sparks so you can spray all the wires with wd40

Temperature sensor i don't know but if you have one than check it.

Jumper cables might do the trick, if you measure the volts of the battery during starting it should never go below 9V or the ignition won't work.

But to be honest, those teachers should pay more and also get paid more but that's another story. Even security guards ride new bikes.

[namdocmai]

If you have a bike company then first buy a compression meter. They are very cheap and do a very good job.

If the compression sucks then buy piston with cilinder.

Maybe the humidity causes false sparks so you can spray all the wires with wd40

Temperature sensor i don't know but if you have one than check it.

Jumper cables might do the trick, if you measure the volts of the battery during starting it should never go below 9V or the ignition won't work.

But to be honest, those teachers should pay more and also get paid more but that's another story. Even security guards ride new bikes.

[ktm jeff]

Was this the bike yo were told had run low on oil before you bought it you mentioned a few weeks ago ?. You got it for the right price , electrics now sorted (why did they burn out on a 6 year old Honda ?) now an engine rebuild is needed for maybe 5,000 Baht.Still a cheap bike if another 5,000 sorts it.

[Bung]

A 5000 baht scooter that had the be rewired. Now it needs a rebuild...how much have you spent fixing this bike? Are you late for work often trying to start this bike?

Just sounds like false economy to me. Did you really arrive here with no money, got a job teaching for a thousand bucks a month and have no savings to even buy a reliable form of transport?

Just wanted to apologise for the above comment. It's none of my business how much money you have and doesn't help your original question........

[ktm jeff]

Bung , the OP , (i think female ? ) rents out cheap bikes to fellow teachers.This is one of the better ones !!!. The tales of woe , mainly engine rebuilds , keep us amussed. I dont think (hope) she wil be upset another person is advising she buys a decen bike , but then she would have to charge more for rent.

[ClareQuilty]

Can you feel much compression if you kick over the engine slowly.

A bit, but, I'd have to say not nearly as much compression as I feel when I kick over my 110 Wave..

Was this the bike yo were told had run low on oil before you bought it you mentioned a few weeks ago ?. You got it for the right price , electrics now sorted (why did they burn out on a 6 year old Honda ?) now an engine rebuild is needed for maybe 5,000 Baht.Still a cheap bike if another 5,000 sorts it.

The mechanics quote 2,000-2,500 for a rebuild on this one, Nigel, but they also say it might be possible to run it for quite a while as it is.

Actually this is not the bike which had been run without oil from a few months ago - this is the bike I bought instead of that bike. The running-without-oil was done by a renter over just the last 6 weeks or so (I have been changing the oil in rented bikes every two months, perhaps I will go to once a month).

A 5000 baht scooter that had the be rewired. Now it needs a rebuild...how much have you spent fixing this bike? Are you late for work often trying to start this bike?

Just sounds like false economy to me. Did you really arrive here with no money, got a job teaching for a thousand bucks a month and have no savings to even buy a reliable form of transport?

Just wanted to apologise for the above comment. It's none of my business how much money you have and doesn't help your original question........

That's quite alright Bung, I do understand your point of view. However, you'll find, I think, that most teachers here do in fact have very little money - otherwise why would they be willing to take such a job!

Edited July 24, 2014 by ClareQuilty

[ktm jeff]

CQ , you do find the most "interesting" bikes dont you. As someone else suggested , recall the rental bikes every month for a check-up/oil level check and/or change.EDIT - worth doing for sure.

Edited July 24, 2014 by nigel jeffrey

[ClareQuilty]

And here we go again.....

ClareQuilty, the hub of "engine rebuilds".

images.jpg

To be fair, Turkleton, I've had excellent luck with two-stroke rebuilds - in most cases they really do refresh the bike completely, and at minimal cost. It is four-stroke rebuilds I've found problematic and not really worth doing.

But to be honest, those teachers should pay more and also get paid more but that's another story. Even security guards ride new bikes.

It is funny you should mention that, namdocmai, because we 'farang teachers' often describe our status within the Thai hierarchy as 'lower than the security guards'.

[VocalNeal]

Can you feel much compression if you kick over the engine slowly.

A bit, but, I'd have to say not nearly as much compression as I feel when I kick over my 110 Wave..

Then the prognosis is as you predict. You need at minimum some new rings as the cold start problem is caused by low compression.

You can decide if the rest of the bike is worth the cost.

[vel_tins]

Bung , the OP , (i think female ? ) rents out cheap bikes to fellow teachers.......

I don't think so....and hope this guy has just a bad taste, when it comes to forum nick-names

Quilty is a playwright and an admirer and maker of child pornography.....

SOURCE^^

[sotsira]

Can you feel much compression if you kick over the engine slowly.

A bit, but, I'd have to say not nearly as much compression as I feel when I kick over my 110 Wave..

Then the prognosis is as you predict. You need at minimum some new rings as the cold start problem is caused by low compression.

You can decide if the rest of the bike is worth the cost.

I wouldn't recommend just changing the rings as that would only paper over the problem

and the engine will return to it's current state in no time.

If the engine bore is worn, then you either need a new cylinder bore piston and ring set.

Or if the bore is re machined to an oversize diameter then a matching oversize piston and ring set

will be required.

If you make sure it's done properly and trust the mechanic doing the work, then the engine will

be back to new standard.

It will also need to be run in for the first 1000klm by not revving it over 4000rpm and then the oil changed.

[ktm jeff]

Opps , i just went on the name - sorry.

[jayci]

Where to get 5k bikes? Might be nice to buy a couple and gifting them to village friends that don't have a bike.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ClareQuilty]

Where to get 5k bikes? Might be nice to buy a couple and gifting them to village friends that don't have a bike.

Generally speaking the only place I know to find cheap old bikes in good/reasonable condition in any quantity is to go to large urban or large-town dealers and look in their 'back rooms'. Most dealers will accept old bikes in trade but not sell them on as they make the front of the shop 'look shabby' to Thai eyes. They sell them to wholesalers once every week or two for next to nothing.

Some dealers will pass this savings along to the friendly impecunious farang visitor, some won't. It depends if they have good sense about 'clearing out the stock' or just want to make every baht possible off of every bike, however long it takes...

[Turkleton]

^^ BS.

Nobody, especially no dealer, sells a running Honda Click for 5K Baht, independent on age and condition.

You might be able to get some 20y old, crappy 2stroke non runner for that price, but never a "running 4stroke".

Even completely worn out Clicks with +50000 KM, or similar bikes, reach easily 8-10k Baht (+fees) at each auction.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Turkleton

[ClareQuilty]

^^ BS.

Nobody, especially no dealer, sells a running Honda Click for 5K Baht, independent on age and condition.

You might be able to get some 20y old, crappy 2stroke non runner for that price, but never a "running 4stroke".

Even completely worn out Clicks with +50000 KM, or similar bikes, reach easily 8-10k Baht (+fees) at each auction.

You're a bit out of date Turkleton - the Honda Click has a terrible reputation in the used market for bad engines and many other reliability/durability issues, particularly in the earlier iterations. 5,000 is the low end for these bikes, but I've been offered several at that price.

Regarding the 'crappy 2 stroke non-runner' comment - for 5,000 I have generally gotten excellent old Tenas, Yamaha Alphas, etc, and for just a thousand more have gotten perfectly preserved like-new low-kilometer two strokes. And, it so happens I've never run across a 'non runner' old two-stroke - they're far superior to the four strokes. I have old two strokes I bought for 3,000-3,500 baht, which, while a bit rough looking, start every time, even after sitting for weeks, and run and drive well.