Still time to clear your overstay without blacklisting

[george]

GOOD NEWS FROM IMMIGRATION BUREAU
Still time to clear your overstay without blacklisting

BANGKOK: -- The Immigration Bureau has informed Thaivisa.com and updated its website to further clarify the recent news for overstaying in Thailand.

The normal overstay penalty is 500 Baht per day up to a maximum of 20,000 Baht. That has not changed.

What has changed is, that overstayed foreigners will be blacklisted from entering Thailand. Immigration now clarifies that the new regulation is still under procedure of approval by the Ministry of Interior.

That means, the new rules is not yet in effect.

If you currently are on overstay, you are advised to clear it as soon as possible. Good advice would be to clear the overstay at the Airport and fly out to a neighbouring country and obtain a relevant visa at a Royal Thai Consulate or Embassy.

So for now, there is no blacklisting yet, according to the Immigration notice below. However blacklisting for overstay is awaiting approval from The Ministry of Interior.

Time to act fast!




-- 2014-07-24

Edited December 10, 2015 by Maestro
Fixed link to image

[carstenp]

Very good news to over-stayers. No excuse not to go now, Don't wait, sort this out now

Good luck everyboby

[parryhandy]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

[pinkpanther99]

This is a different notice to the one Immigration posted the other day, right?

[carstenp]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

No ban for now. Just fine like the old rules

[carstenp]

This is a different notice to the one Immigration posted the other day, right?

No is the same, but confirmed not active yet.

[BillR]

Very good news to over-stayers. No excuse not to go now, Don't wait, sort this out now

Good luck everyboby

The factual excuse will be many "no have" 20,000THB

[Mario2008]

1 post removed with (altered) quote only.

[Mario2008]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Looks to me the first 90 days only a fine, after 90 days a ban.

But the rules are not official yet and thus still could be altered.

[parryhandy]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

No ban for now. Just fine like the old rules

I mean what happens under the new rules ?

[ubonjoe]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Looks to me the first 90 days only a fine, after 90 days a ban.

But the rules are not official yet and thus still could be altered.

Mario that looks like the rule for not apprehended.

Apprehended is a ban for any amount of overstay. Unless you have seen something different.

But I think there would be a little flexibility for short overstays.

I think we will have to wait until the rules are published to know if there is anything different other what has been announced,

[Mudcrab]

The way it reads to me is if you voluntarily report your overstay - for instance go to immigration at Swampy - then the first set of penalties listed apply.

If, however, you are apprehended i.e. caught anywhere else and the overstay is detected then the second set of penalties apply.

So it may mean an apprehended over-stayer will face a blacklisitng for any period of overstay, even less than 90 days.

I'm sure others will interpret this differently, but I wouldn't take the risk if I was in the overstay situation.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Mudcrab

[harber8]

No excuse to go now. Apart from the money needed to get to the border/airport.

Most overstayers prob don't have funds for tonight's dinner/3 bottles of large Chang.

[John1thru10]

The way it reads to me is if you voluntarily report your overstay - for instance go to immigration at Swampy - then the first set of penalties listed apply.

If, however, you are apprehended i.e. caught anywhere else and the overstay is detected then the second set of penalties apply.

So it may mean an apprehended over-stayer will face a blacklisitng for any period of overstay, even less than 90 days.

I'm sure others will interpret this differently, but I wouldn't take the risk if I was in the overstay situation.

Interpret it differently? that's clearly what it says, no interpretation necessary.

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a couple of post that are just bickering over the what the rules say or don't say.

For now what is written is all we know.

[thaibreaker]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Looks to me the first 90 days only a fine, after 90 days a ban.

But the rules are not official yet and thus still could be altered.

Mario that looks like the rule for not apprehended.

Apprehended is a ban for any amount of overstay. Unless you have seen something different.

But I think there would be a little flexibility for short overstays.

I think we will have to wait until the rules are published to know if there is anything different other what has been announced,

Well, for me it looks like Mario2008 is right, and ubonjoe, for once...

It is made clear in the upper text that overstaying beyond 90 days will be blacklisted. The wording "as follow" is the clue, and shows for me that the blacklisting will not start before 90 days is exceeded, even if apprehended.

For me it sounds clear, and I can`t see it your way, ubonjoe. Sorry.

The wording is different in the comparing, yes, but it makes sense anyway, imo.

Hope for this to be clearified by the immigration, so we can agree on the outcome, and move on.

Anyway, the post is good news for me, now I will sort out my own overstay, and I have overstayed for the last time.

Edited July 24, 2014 by thaibreaker

[inutil]

Common sense perhaps? If there was a special category for being apprehended within 90 days youd think there might be a statement on what would happen were you to have been apprehended within 90 days. Fortunately the phrase "less than 1 year" also covers the period within 90 days time frame, the fact it doesnt have an extra statement of penalty should therefore make this rather self-explanatory.

Its basically this: you can overstay up to 90 days, but if you do so without permission from the state (ie. extenuating circumstances) , youre breaking the law. If you self-report then there may be a degree of leniency. If you dont self report but are found out from a random spot check, then the state has no way of knowing if your claim 'honestly m'laud, it was only a few more days!" is true or if you were intending to live under the radar for the next 10 years and working illegally.The message is pretty clear. Dont overstay.

If you HAVE to overstay, report it at immigration before people actually come to that address you gave on arrival and try to get in contact with you. The punishment should be harsh. Its right that it is. This way it functions as a deterrent and lowers the cost to the regular tax payer for enforcing this. You are of course breaking the law, and as such the penalty should fit the crime. Logic will dictate that there will be a spot of understanding for incredibly short or accidental overstays (a booked flight will go some way to showing any random spot check from the police that you didnt intend to break the law or werent attempting to stay illegally within Thailand), so its incredibly unlikely that in those circumstances you will receive anything more than a talking to by immigration and a fine. But the less proof you have or documentation to show WHY youve stayed over the length of your visa, the more likely you will fall into the group of people facing a 5 year ban.

Honestly, clarification seems absolutely unnecessary. Its all there. The only reason one might ask for it i suppose is the laissez faire approach from the past has made you look for a loophole. But right now its a new system, and people are looking serious. The most sensible thing to do is follow the letter of the law until such a time as it becomes clear its stopped being effectively enforced nationwide. And only if youre willing to really roll the dice on it. The best thing is just to get legal, or go back home, file out the necessary requirements for legality (an M.Ed for example) and then head back when youre ready. if Thailand means that much to you because of your family, then you have to make sure youre not looking over your shoulder every day for the sake of those people you care about depriving them of their mother/father/breadwinner. Or you find ways of bringing them back to where you come from. Whatever it is, you should be doing it through legal channels. Im not sermonising, i just think if it matters to you, you need to do the right thing anyway.

[ScottMallon]

[CRUNCHER]

The way it reads to me is if you voluntarily report your overstay - for instance go to immigration at Swampy - then the first set of penalties listed apply.

If, however, you are apprehended i.e. caught anywhere else and the overstay is detected then the second set of penalties apply.

So it may mean an apprehended over-stayer will face a blacklisitng for any period of overstay, even less than 90 days.

I'm sure others will interpret this differently, but I wouldn't take the risk if I was in the overstay situation.

You are right. It is quite clear.

The reason for the difference is also quite obvious. Those who go to the airport, boarder or immigration are in the process of righting the wrong. They deserve more lenient treatment than those who are apprehended, as there is no evidence of remorse in the latter.

However, I would like to have seen a few days grace for those apprehended - say 7 days to one year overstay - forbidden for 5 years. This might avoid any injustice for those with a good excuse. More than 7 days overstay has little or no excuse.

Edited July 24, 2014 by CRUNCHER

[thaibreaker]

Common sense perhaps? If there was a special category for being apprehended within 90 days youd think there might be a statement on what would happen were you to have been apprehended within 90 days. Fortunately the phrase "less than 1 year" also covers the period within 90 days time frame, the fact it doesnt have an extra statement of penalty should therefore make this rather self-explanatory.

Its basically this: you can overstay up to 90 days, but if you do so without permission from the state (ie. extenuating circumstances) , youre breaking the law. If you self-report then there may be a degree of leniency. If you dont self report but are found out from a random spot check, then the state has no way of knowing if your claim 'honestly m'laud, it was only a few more days!" is true or if you were intending to live under the radar for the next 10 years and working illegally.The message is pretty clear. Dont overstay.

If you HAVE to overstay, report it at immigration before people actually come to that address you gave on arrival and try to get in contact with you. The punishment should be harsh. Its right that it is. This way it functions as a deterrent and lowers the cost to the regular tax payer for enforcing this. You are of course breaking the law, and as such the penalty should fit the crime. Logic will dictate that there will be a spot of understanding for incredibly short or accidental overstays (a booked flight will go some way to showing any random spot check from the police that you didnt intend to break the law or werent attempting to stay illegally within Thailand), so its incredibly unlikely that in those circumstances you will receive anything more than a talking to by immigration and a fine. But the less proof you have or documentation to show WHY youve stayed over the length of your visa, the more likely you will fall into the group of people facing a 5 year ban.

Honestly, clarification seems absolutely unnecessary. Its all there. The only reason one might ask for it i suppose is the laissez faire approach from the past has made you look for a loophole. But right now its a new system, and people are looking serious. The most sensible thing to do is follow the letter of the law until such a time as it becomes clear its stopped being effectively enforced nationwide. And only if youre willing to really roll the dice on it. The best thing is just to get legal, or go back home, file out the necessary requirements for legality (an M.Ed for example) and then head back when youre ready. if Thailand means that much to you because of your family, then you have to make sure youre not looking over your shoulder every day for the sake of those people you care about depriving them of their mother/father/breadwinner. Or you find ways of bringing them back to where you come from. Whatever it is, you should be doing it through legal channels. Im not sermonising, i just think if it matters to you, you need to do the right thing anyway.

Well, It can`t be clear, since I don`t agree with you. We will see in the coming days what is right.

Have in mind, if you are apprehended with 1-90 days of overstay, you are anyway punished. You will be jailed, and have to come up with the funds to get out of the country. Just as it has been the last decades. It`s not like it`s free to do it.

So I will wait and see what the outcome will be, as I don`t agree with you. The wording "as follow" means something here, and the apprehended act is directly connected to these words.

Edited July 24, 2014 by thaibreaker

[al007]

This has to be a total no brainer, get out while you can and clean up your act, at the moment it will cost 20,000batt

Leave it and unless you can hide for the rest of your life as an illegal and never leave thailand, you will be guarenteed to be blacklisted the day you choose or have to go outside Thailand for even a Day

The risk of doing nothing is just far too high and non sensible

[cocopops]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Looks to me the first 90 days only a fine, after 90 days a ban.

But the rules are not official yet and thus still could be altered.

Mario that looks like the rule for not apprehended.

Apprehended is a ban for any amount of overstay. Unless you have seen something different.

But I think there would be a little flexibility for short overstays.

I think we will have to wait until the rules are published to know if there is anything different other what has been announced,

I reckon it's ambiguous too. In the English version, perhaps the "more than 90 days" part in the preamble could be read to constrain the penalties applied even if you are apprehended. Or not.

But the Thai preamble doesn't include the 90 day qualification at all. The Thai version supports Ubonjoe's interpretation - "apprehended" at 1am the day after your stamp expires leads to a 5 year ban.

Edited July 24, 2014 by cocopops

[NancyL]

I know someone who has overstayed about five months due to multiple medical problems. He used to be on a retirement visa, but last year the medical problems started, he spent his funds on on a major surgery and then went on back-to-back medical extensions (they're only good for 90 days max)

In March more problems and he didn't get the get another medical extension. Increasing dementia is one of the medical problems.

Now Chiang Mai Immigration is refusing to clear the overstay, saying he should do a border run. He can barely travel by van, let alone fly. Someone would have to travel with him. The doctor says he can't withstand a trip back to his home country and besides he has no place to go and can't afford the trip.

Can he go to Mae Sai, pay the fine, be wheeled in and out in a wheelchair and allowed back in with a 30 day visa exempt stamp? I really don't want to put him and an assistant thru the hassle of a trip to Mae Sai if this isn't possible.

I'm hoping Chiang Mai Immigration would allow that visa exempt stamp to be extended with medical extensions and for him to continue to live in Thailand legally.

Edited July 24, 2014 by NancyL

[thaibreaker]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Looks to me the first 90 days only a fine, after 90 days a ban.

But the rules are not official yet and thus still could be altered.

Mario that looks like the rule for not apprehended.

Apprehended is a ban for any amount of overstay. Unless you have seen something different.

But I think there would be a little flexibility for short overstays.

I think we will have to wait until the rules are published to know if there is anything different other what has been announced,

I reckon it's ambiguous too. In the English version, perhaps the "more than 90 days" part in the preamble could be read to constrain the penalties applied even if you are apprehended. Or not.

But the Thai preamble doesn't include the 90 day qualification at all. The Thai version supports Ubonjoe's interpretation - "apprehended" at 1am the day after your stamp expires leads to a 5 year ban.

Okey, I didn`t know that, and if it`s so, that is worrying.

But we will wait for confirmation.

If this will be the outcome, I guess there will be some room for flexibility for the shortest overstayers, as ubonjoe points out.

Edited July 24, 2014 by thaibreaker

[sjaak327]

I am with ubonjoe on this one, it certainly seems to me that apprehended does not have the 90 days leniency.

[csabo]

The way it reads to me is if you voluntarily report your overstay - for instance go to immigration at Swampy - then the first set of penalties listed apply.

If, however, you are apprehended i.e. caught anywhere else and the overstay is detected then the second set of penalties apply.

So it may mean an apprehended over-stayer will face a blacklisitng for any period of overstay, even less than 90 days.

I'm sure others will interpret this differently, but I wouldn't take the risk if I was in the overstay situation.

Interpret it differently? that's clearly what it says, no interpretation necessary.

You are wrong. I have been reading and interpreting law for 25 years. You both are reading it incorrectly.

[ubonjoe]

A abusive post containing a profanity and replies to it has been removed.

[CRUNCHER]

This has to be a total no brainer, get out while you can and clean up your act, at the moment it will cost 20,000batt

Leave it and unless you can hide for the rest of your life as an illegal and never leave thailand, you will be guarenteed to be blacklisted the day you choose or have to go outside Thailand for even a Day

The risk of doing nothing is just far too high and non sensible

Excellent advice.

Cynical me wonders how many people will ignore it and in a few months time start complaining about how unfair the Thai authorities are for not allowing them to break the law with impunity.

[catweazle]

Some good news at last - looked like a fair bunch of TV posters didn't have their paperwork in order as well... Glad to see they got a final chance to steer clear.

[steve73]

From what I understand of others postings, if many long term overstayers don't have the necessary funds to clear their overstay AND then make the necessary return crossing to get a proper visa, they will almost certainly not have the funds necessary to get such as a non-O extension, an ED, or an elite, so these latest announcements are MORE likely to drive such overstayers even further underground...

Just my humble opinion..

Edited July 24, 2014 by steve73