At least 100 military in NLA: source

[sjaak327]

 

 

 

 
 
No, I only referred to the idea that Thailand is a democratic country. Mind you, now that you mention it, the way Thai handle democracy a wee bit of education on rights and duties supposed in a democracy wouldn't really be a waste of time.
 

 
Clearly Thailand is not currently a democracy.  Education on the rights of citizens and the duties of the military in a democratic society would be an excellent idea, especially in the military.

 
 

 
You hit the nail right on the head. It's not the Thai population that needs education, it's the Thai militairy that doesn't seem to understand, or much more likely, isn't willing to understand.
 
The militairy isn't meant to run the country, and they proven time and time again that they are incapable of running the country, yet they still seem to believe they should intervene. Only to be dealt another blow once the Thai electorate have their say. Some people never learn.

You struggle with the same painful dilemma as Brucie with a leg either side of the fence with the painful point in the middle. Clearly Thailand is not a democracy...well done it's not a democracy as it is under martial law, and with the legality under Thai law of the Martial Law Act the Army does have the right to intervene and run the country. The Army is well aware of its rights and duties under said Matial Law Act and is legally following said rules. The blows I see being delivered in modern day Thailand to itself are not by the hand of the electorate or by the Army having to come in and restore order but by the main group who need the biggest education delivered which is the scum bag politicians on all politicial sides who consider their rights and responsibilities of being above the law and to their own making. That is the group that requires the biggest level of understanding that with rights go responsibilities as your Dutch Uncle has been trying to rightfully point out to you.
As to the said make up of the final 220 members the Junta has it dead right. If you are going to enforce change then you ensure a majority to deliver your objectives. Especially when you have had the past 13 years history of law and order meltdown since the 2001 Thaksin is above the law ruling to show that the previous system was a complete failure.

 

No militairy in any country should have the right to intervene in running of the country. End of story.

 

I am sure they didn't have this right given to them in the 1997 constitution. The one that wasn't drafted by said militairy and the one they should have returned to.

 

I understand, some people would not want to go back to that consitution, but when it comes to legality, it's the only one that can stand the test.

 

In any case, just as previous governments, the militairy has not followed the law to the letter either, otherwise there would never have been a reason to abolish the 1997 constitution.

 

Yet the supporters of the militairy apparently believe that it is a major problem when an elected government allegedly breaks the law, but yet close their eyes completely for a clear breaking of the law by the militairy.

 

Which of course raises severe doubts about their whole point, when you accuse one side of breaking the law, you cannot condone the other side doing the exact same thing, when you do you risk being called a hypocrite.

Edited August 1, 2014 by sjaak327

[sjaak327]

 

 

 

I am dying to hear which duties the Thai electorate have been neglecting.

 

The militairy have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without any doubt.

 

 

Come on, Sjakie, I wrote "the way Thai handle democracy a wee bit of education on rights and duties supposed in a democracy wouldn't really be a waste of time." and with Brucy mentioning citizens rights only I think my comment still stands. Rights and Duties go together. One of the duties is to act responsible which includes not buying into vote buying promises or finding it acceptable to have bribery on all levels as long as it suits you.

 

Now as for the military having neglected their duties, would you care to list which duties you not only feel they have neglected, but even makes you state "certain without any doubt"?

 

 

Come one Rubl, vote buying promises is alive and well in any democracy. Even in our home country it is alive and well, and people base their voting on it. How do you think an idiot such as WIlders can possibly have this many votes ? He promises people stuff that he cannot possibly make true, and people  buy it.

 

This is part of democracy. It might not be responsible, it might not be desireable, yet politicians use these kind of instruments as they see fit, and as such I see nothing wrong with it.

[heybruce]

 

 

 

 

 

You hit the nail right on the head. It's not the Thai population that needs education, it's the Thai militairy that doesn't seem to understand, or much more likely, isn't willing to understand.

 

The militairy isn't meant to run the country, and they proven time and time again that they are incapable of running the country, yet they still seem to believe they should intervene. Only to be dealt another blow once the Thai electorate have their say. Some people never learn.

 

 

The Yingluck government wasn't a real shiny example of how to run a country either.

 

BTW some like the stress rights of citizens, but forget that those rights come with duties which make it possible to claim those rights. If you make a mess of your duties, you shouldn't complain of others treating on your rights. IMHO

 

 

I am dying to hear which duties the Thai electorate have been neglecting.

 

The militairy have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without any doubt.

 

 

Come on, Sjakie, I wrote "the way Thai handle democracy a wee bit of education on rights and duties supposed in a democracy wouldn't really be a waste of time." and with Brucy mentioning citizens rights only I think my comment still stands. Rights and Duties go together. One of the duties is to act responsible which includes not buying into vote buying promises or finding it acceptable to have bribery on all levels as long as it suits you.

 

Now as for the military having neglected their duties, would you care to list which duties you not only feel they have neglected, but even makes you state "certain without any doubt"?

 

I'm not sure what the point of your first paragraph is.  Yes, citizens in and out of the government have duties and responsibilities, and individuals and entire populations often fall short of the ideal.  Are you implying that the corruption of the elected government justifies a corrupt military government?  Or do you think the military is better qualified to govern because it is less corrupt than other parts of Thailand?  Keep in mind that the military is over-sized, ridiculously top-heavy with generals and admirals, tolerates conflicts of interests that would send military officers in other countries to prison, and it is common knowledge among Thai families that they can buy a draft deferment for their sons if they can afford it.  Just because the corruption doesn't affect ex-pats as directly as other kinds of corruption doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

In answer to your second paragraph I'd like to point out the obvious, but the moderators would probably interpret it as criticism of the coup and delete the post.  Isn't censorship wonderful?
 

[rubl]

 

 

 

The Yingluck government wasn't a real shiny example of how to run a country either.

 

BTW some like the stress rights of citizens, but forget that those rights come with duties which make it possible to claim those rights. If you make a mess of your duties, you shouldn't complain of others treating on your rights. IMHO

 

 

I am dying to hear which duties the Thai electorate have been neglecting.

 

The militairy have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without any doubt.

 

 

Come on, Sjakie, I wrote "the way Thai handle democracy a wee bit of education on rights and duties supposed in a democracy wouldn't really be a waste of time." and with Brucy mentioning citizens rights only I think my comment still stands. Rights and Duties go together. One of the duties is to act responsible which includes not buying into vote buying promises or finding it acceptable to have bribery on all levels as long as it suits you.

 

Now as for the military having neglected their duties, would you care to list which duties you not only feel they have neglected, but even makes you state "certain without any doubt"?

 

I'm not sure what the point of your first paragraph is.  Yes, citizens in and out of the government have duties and responsibilities, and individuals and entire populations often fall short of the ideal.  Are you implying that the corruption of the elected government justifies a corrupt military government?  Or do you think the military is better qualified to govern because it is less corrupt than other parts of Thailand?  Keep in mind that the military is over-sized, ridiculously top-heavy with generals and admirals, tolerates conflicts of interests that would send military officers in other countries to prison, and it is common knowledge among Thai families that they can buy a draft deferment for their sons if they can afford it.  Just because the corruption doesn't affect ex-pats as directly as other kinds of corruption doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

In answer to your second paragraph I'd like to point out the obvious, but the moderators would probably interpret it as criticism of the coup and delete the post.  Isn't censorship wonderful?
 

 

The point of my first paragraph is that a democracy has BOTH rights for AND obligations to the citizens living in/under it.  Furthermore I'm implying that the 'Junta bashing' while ignoring the Yingluck Administration shenanigans is somewhat hilarious.

 

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.

 

Anyway, around 9PM I watched Gen Prayuth on channel 3, 5, 7, MCOT, NBT and I really feel up to it again.

[rubl]

 

 

 

 

I am dying to hear which duties the Thai electorate have been neglecting.

 

The militairy have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without any doubt.

 

 

Come on, Sjakie, I wrote "the way Thai handle democracy a wee bit of education on rights and duties supposed in a democracy wouldn't really be a waste of time." and with Brucy mentioning citizens rights only I think my comment still stands. Rights and Duties go together. One of the duties is to act responsible which includes not buying into vote buying promises or finding it acceptable to have bribery on all levels as long as it suits you.

 

Now as for the military having neglected their duties, would you care to list which duties you not only feel they have neglected, but even makes you state "certain without any doubt"?

 

 

Come one Rubl, vote buying promises is alive and well in any democracy. Even in our home country it is alive and well, and people base their voting on it. How do you think an idiot such as WIlders can possibly have this many votes ? He promises people stuff that he cannot possibly make true, and people  buy it.

 

This is part of democracy. It might not be responsible, it might not be desireable, yet politicians use these kind of instruments as they see fit, and as such I see nothing wrong with it.

 

 

As I wrote, in a democracy rights and duties go together. Even 'Wilders' in the Netherlands finds himselves restricted by that. What he cannot do though is use the rights and duties as he sees fit. He's restricted both theoretically as well as practically / effectively. He'd be in prison if he tried to amend the constitution or bend laws  to better suit him.

[heybruce]

 

 

 

 

 

I am dying to hear which duties the Thai electorate have been neglecting.

 

The militairy have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without any doubt.

 

 

Come on, Sjakie, I wrote "the way Thai handle democracy a wee bit of education on rights and duties supposed in a democracy wouldn't really be a waste of time." and with Brucy mentioning citizens rights only I think my comment still stands. Rights and Duties go together. One of the duties is to act responsible which includes not buying into vote buying promises or finding it acceptable to have bribery on all levels as long as it suits you.

 

Now as for the military having neglected their duties, would you care to list which duties you not only feel they have neglected, but even makes you state "certain without any doubt"?

 

I'm not sure what the point of your first paragraph is.  Yes, citizens in and out of the government have duties and responsibilities, and individuals and entire populations often fall short of the ideal.  Are you implying that the corruption of the elected government justifies a corrupt military government?  Or do you think the military is better qualified to govern because it is less corrupt than other parts of Thailand?  Keep in mind that the military is over-sized, ridiculously top-heavy with generals and admirals, tolerates conflicts of interests that would send military officers in other countries to prison, and it is common knowledge among Thai families that they can buy a draft deferment for their sons if they can afford it.  Just because the corruption doesn't affect ex-pats as directly as other kinds of corruption doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

In answer to your second paragraph I'd like to point out the obvious, but the moderators would probably interpret it as criticism of the coup and delete the post.  Isn't censorship wonderful?
 

 

The point of my first paragraph is that a democracy has BOTH rights for AND obligations to the citizens living in/under it.  Furthermore I'm implying that the 'Junta bashing' while ignoring the Yingluck Administration shenanigans is somewhat hilarious.

 

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.

 

Anyway, around 9PM I watched Gen Prayuth on channel 3, 5, 7, MCOT, NBT and I really feel up to it again.

 

 

"As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment."

 

Really rubl, the points sjaak and I alluded to are quite obvious, as is the fact that some things can not be discussed during this very long 'moment' of censorship.

 

When I read your first and last paragraph I get the impression of a Prayuth groupie complaining that others are biased.  That's hilarious.

 

[heybruce]

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the point of your first paragraph is.  Yes, citizens in and out of the government have duties and responsibilities, and individuals and entire populations often fall short of the ideal.  Are you implying that the corruption of the elected government justifies a corrupt military government?  Or do you think the military is better qualified to govern because it is less corrupt than other parts of Thailand?  Keep in mind that the military is over-sized, ridiculously top-heavy with generals and admirals, tolerates conflicts of interests that would send military officers in other countries to prison, and it is common knowledge among Thai families that they can buy a draft deferment for their sons if they can afford it.  Just because the corruption doesn't affect ex-pats as directly as other kinds of corruption doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

In answer to your second paragraph I'd like to point out the obvious, but the moderators would probably interpret it as criticism of the coup and delete the post.  Isn't censorship wonderful?
 

 

The point of my first paragraph is that a democracy has BOTH rights for AND obligations to the citizens living in/under it.  Furthermore I'm implying that the 'Junta bashing' while ignoring the Yingluck Administration shenanigans is somewhat hilarious.

 

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.

 

Anyway, around 9PM I watched Gen Prayuth on channel 3, 5, 7, MCOT, NBT and I really feel up to it again.

 

 

"As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment."

 

Really rubl, the points sjaak and I alluded to are quite obvious, as is the fact that some things can not be discussed during this very long 'moment' of censorship.

 

When I read your first and last paragraph I get the impression of a Prayuth groupie complaining that others are biased.  That's hilarious.
 

 

Well thank you for alluding to things which are so obvious that even without certain restrictions I doubt you'd be able to explain to satisfaction why that would be so obvious. I could elaborate, but I'm afraid you don't have the correct security clearance, nor are you in the group who 'need to know'

 

BTW if you think complaining about the undemocratic shenanigans of the Yingluck Administration combined with a sense of humor makes me show a bias I'm (almost) convinced you are not biased but only single focused

 

 

"...even without certain restrictions I doubt you'd be able to explain..."

 

You live in a dream if you think censorship is not restricting what we are posting.  You are missing the obvious because apparently you have no interest in news sources and facts that challenge your views.  Censorship helps you avoid this information, but you clearly make little effort to find unbiased news originating from outside of Thailand.  No doubt you approve of censorship, but you also pretend it doesn't cause any meaningful impediment to the exchange of views.  Now that's single focus!
 

Freedom of the press is essential to democracy, transparency, and honest government, and the junta is restricting it:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/thailand-media-idUSL4N0PW0VW20140721

 

'"We are approaching two months after the coup but there is no relaxing of press restrictions. In reality it is the opposite," Sunai Phasuk, senior researcher on Thailand for Human Rights Watch, told Reuters.

 

"It is clear that the military has very thin skin and even a very mild form of dissent is not tolerated. Clearly we are not heading towards democracy but a mirror-image of what happens in military barracks - top-down rule." '

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by heybruce

[rubl]

 

 

 

 

The point of my first paragraph is that a democracy has BOTH rights for AND obligations to the citizens living in/under it.  Furthermore I'm implying that the 'Junta bashing' while ignoring the Yingluck Administration shenanigans is somewhat hilarious.

 

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.

 

Anyway, around 9PM I watched Gen Prayuth on channel 3, 5, 7, MCOT, NBT and I really feel up to it again.

 

 

"As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment."

 

Really rubl, the points sjaak and I alluded to are quite obvious, as is the fact that some things can not be discussed during this very long 'moment' of censorship.

 

When I read your first and last paragraph I get the impression of a Prayuth groupie complaining that others are biased.  That's hilarious.
 

 

Well thank you for alluding to things which are so obvious that even without certain restrictions I doubt you'd be able to explain to satisfaction why that would be so obvious. I could elaborate, but I'm afraid you don't have the correct security clearance, nor are you in the group who 'need to know'

 

BTW if you think complaining about the undemocratic shenanigans of the Yingluck Administration combined with a sense of humor makes me show a bias I'm (almost) convinced you are not biased but only single focused

 

 

"...even without certain restrictions I doubt you'd be able to explain..."

 

You live in a dream if you think censorship is not restricting what we are posting.  You are missing the obvious because apparently you have no interest in news sources and facts that challenge your views.  Censorship helps you avoid this information, but you clearly make little effort to find unbiased news originating from outside of Thailand.  No doubt you approve of censorship, but you also pretend it doesn't cause any meaningful impediment to the exchange of views.  Now that's single focus!
 

Freedom of the press is essential to democracy, transparency, and honest government, and the junta is restricting it:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/thailand-media-idUSL4N0PW0VW20140721

 

'"We are approaching two months after the coup but there is no relaxing of press restrictions. In reality it is the opposite," Sunai Phasuk, senior researcher on Thailand for Human Rights Watch, told Reuters.

 

"It is clear that the military has very thin skin and even a very mild form of dissent is not tolerated. Clearly we are not heading towards democracy but a mirror-image of what happens in military barracks - top-down rule." '

 

 

try reading my post again. It had "even without certain restrictions", that should have suggested to you I indicated there are certain restrictions at the moment. Mind you, also the Yingluck government put restrictions on news. Head of the former CAPO Pol. Captain Chalerm demanded that news outlets do not publish any news which could be deemed to put the anti-government protests in a positive light.

 

Anyway, as some have tried to explain to me, Thailand doesn't have a democracy at the moment and I can only add that Thailand didn't really have one before either.

 

That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members.

[sjaak327]

Of course Thailand had a real democracy. They had one prior to 2006 and they had one prior to a few months ago. They had a democracy where the lower house was elected directly through the constituency and indirectly through party list.

 

Unfortunately since 2007 they do not have a fully elected senate, but an appointed one for 50%. This needs to be repaired, in fact the 2007 constitution should be replaced by the real people's constitution of 1997.

 

Of course some people wouldn't like that, even though it is the only right thing to do. Constitutions aren't amended by the military, they should be amended by politicians with a proper mandate obtained through the electorate.

[rubl]

Anyway, the topic of 100 military persons selected for the NLA doesn't seem interesting enough judging from all posts on other aspects.

 

Since the NLA isn't democratically elected, but selected AND since no one in charge has ever said the selection would be democratic, it would seem the hottest debate should be on whether or not these selected military have the right background and credentials to function in an NLA. Mind you, I would probably only get really useful comments like "we can't comment on that now" 

 

 

[heybruce]

 

 

 

 

 

"As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment."

 

Really rubl, the points sjaak and I alluded to are quite obvious, as is the fact that some things can not be discussed during this very long 'moment' of censorship.

 

When I read your first and last paragraph I get the impression of a Prayuth groupie complaining that others are biased.  That's hilarious.
 

 

Well thank you for alluding to things which are so obvious that even without certain restrictions I doubt you'd be able to explain to satisfaction why that would be so obvious. I could elaborate, but I'm afraid you don't have the correct security clearance, nor are you in the group who 'need to know'

 

BTW if you think complaining about the undemocratic shenanigans of the Yingluck Administration combined with a sense of humor makes me show a bias I'm (almost) convinced you are not biased but only single focused

 

 

"...even without certain restrictions I doubt you'd be able to explain..."

 

You live in a dream if you think censorship is not restricting what we are posting.  You are missing the obvious because apparently you have no interest in news sources and facts that challenge your views.  Censorship helps you avoid this information, but you clearly make little effort to find unbiased news originating from outside of Thailand.  No doubt you approve of censorship, but you also pretend it doesn't cause any meaningful impediment to the exchange of views.  Now that's single focus!
 

Freedom of the press is essential to democracy, transparency, and honest government, and the junta is restricting it:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/thailand-media-idUSL4N0PW0VW20140721

 

'"We are approaching two months after the coup but there is no relaxing of press restrictions. In reality it is the opposite," Sunai Phasuk, senior researcher on Thailand for Human Rights Watch, told Reuters.

 

"It is clear that the military has very thin skin and even a very mild form of dissent is not tolerated. Clearly we are not heading towards democracy but a mirror-image of what happens in military barracks - top-down rule." '

 

 

try reading my post again. It had "even without certain restrictions", that should have suggested to you I indicated there are certain restrictions at the moment. Mind you, also the Yingluck government put restrictions on news. Head of the former CAPO Pol. Captain Chalerm demanded that news outlets do not publish any news which could be deemed to put the anti-government protests in a positive light.

 

Anyway, as some have tried to explain to me, Thailand doesn't have a democracy at the moment and I can only add that Thailand didn't really have one before either.

 

That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members.

 

 

"That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members."

 

It also leaves the question of where the junta will go from here.  I think pressure in the form of criticism of the current circumstances and the direction the junta is heading in is necessary to move Thailand in a better direction. 

 

 

[rubl]

 

try reading my post again. It had "even without certain restrictions", that should have suggested to you I indicated there are certain restrictions at the moment. Mind you, also the Yingluck government put restrictions on news. Head of the former CAPO Pol. Captain Chalerm demanded that news outlets do not publish any news which could be deemed to put the anti-government protests in a positive light.

 

Anyway, as some have tried to explain to me, Thailand doesn't have a democracy at the moment and I can only add that Thailand didn't really have one before either.

 

That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members.

 

 

"That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members."

 

It also leaves the question of where the junta will go from here.  I think pressure in the form of criticism of the current circumstances and the direction the junta is heading in is necessary to move Thailand in a better direction. 

 

 

 

 

I only have a short break now in my favorite program on channel5 (life in and around a military camp ), so I'm not going to search the three stage plan announced a while ago by Gen. Prayuth.

 

May I suggest you do some searching yourself.

[fab4]

 

 

try reading my post again. It had "even without certain restrictions", that should have suggested to you I indicated there are certain restrictions at the moment. Mind you, also the Yingluck government put restrictions on news. Head of the former CAPO Pol. Captain Chalerm demanded that news outlets do not publish any news which could be deemed to put the anti-government protests in a positive light.

 

Anyway, as some have tried to explain to me, Thailand doesn't have a democracy at the moment and I can only add that Thailand didn't really have one before either.

 

That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members.

 

 

"That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members."

 

It also leaves the question of where the junta will go from here.  I think pressure in the form of criticism of the current circumstances and the direction the junta is heading in is necessary to move Thailand in a better direction. 

 

 

 

 

I only have a short break now in my favorite program on channel5 (life in and around a military camp ), so I'm not going to search the three stage plan announced a while ago by Gen. Prayuth.

 

May I suggest you do some searching yourself.

 

 

Well, rubl, stage 2 is just about to be implemented. 5000 troops are going out in the country to solicit public support for this second stage. 738 "Community Relation Units" are being trained on how to approach people and sell the junta's ideas. Guess they'll be wasting their time, as according to many posters on here the vast majority of Thais (and forum members apparently) already support prayuth and his coup.

 

Makes you wonder why they are bothering doing this if that is the case 

[heybruce]

 

 

try reading my post again. It had "even without certain restrictions", that should have suggested to you I indicated there are certain restrictions at the moment. Mind you, also the Yingluck government put restrictions on news. Head of the former CAPO Pol. Captain Chalerm demanded that news outlets do not publish any news which could be deemed to put the anti-government protests in a positive light.

 

Anyway, as some have tried to explain to me, Thailand doesn't have a democracy at the moment and I can only add that Thailand didn't really have one before either.

 

That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members.

 

 

"That leaves us with an interim NLA with at least 100 military members."

 

It also leaves the question of where the junta will go from here.  I think pressure in the form of criticism of the current circumstances and the direction the junta is heading in is necessary to move Thailand in a better direction. 

 

 

 

 

I only have a short break now in my favorite program on channel5 (life in and around a military camp ), so I'm not going to search the three stage plan announced a while ago by Gen. Prayuth.

 

May I suggest you do some searching yourself.

 

 

I've been searching for life-on-the-edge daredevils who prefer the turbulent freedoms of democracy to the predictable security of a military strongman government.  I've found a few, but not many.  Maybe the TV forum is the wrong place to search.

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by heybruce

[dominique355]

Early days yet and what is proposed is streets ahead of the previous corrupt outfit controlled by a fugitive criminal  despot.

 

Really?

 

Check section 44 of the Interim Constitution:

 

Section 44 empowers the NCPO leader to issue any order "for the sake of the reforms in any field, the promotion of love and harmony amongst the national people, or the prevention, abatement or suppression of any act detrimental to national order or security, royal throne, national economy or public administration, whether the act occurs inside or outside the kingdom". The orders so issued are all deemed "lawful, constitutional and final".

 

Who is controling whom and what now?

 

Macchiavelli must be smiling...

[AleG]

 

 

Most of the problems you mention in relation to shut up and do as your told, don't question or debate decisions made by the leaders, accepting your leaders wisdom unconditionally, as well as arrogant leaders not listening to those below them leading to a debacle, could apply to the last PT govt.

 

Really?  Did they also impose martial law and censorship, put military checkpoints on the streets, rule by decree and make it illegal to call for elections?

 

 

They did something much worse, at the very least they turned a blind eye and allowed their supporters to murder people indiscriminately and with impunity.
 

[dominique355]

 

 

 

Most of the problems you mention in relation to shut up and do as your told, don't question or debate decisions made by the leaders, accepting your leaders wisdom unconditionally, as well as arrogant leaders not listening to those below them leading to a debacle, could apply to the last PT govt.

 

Really?  Did they also impose martial law and censorship, put military checkpoints on the streets, rule by decree and make it illegal to call for elections?

 

 

They did something much worse, at the very least they turned a blind eye and allowed their supporters to murder people indiscriminately and with impunity.
 

 

 

OK, but do two wrongs make one right? I don't think so.

 

It's kind of a kindergarden mentality to justify a bad thing with "I didn't do it! He did too."   Never learn? Never improve?

 

 

[AleG]

 

 

 

Really?  Did they also impose martial law and censorship, put military checkpoints on the streets, rule by decree and make it illegal to call for elections?

 

 

They did something much worse, at the very least they turned a blind eye and allowed their supporters to murder people indiscriminately and with impunity.
 

 

 

OK, but do two wrongs make one right? I don't think so.

 

It's kind of a kindergarden mentality to justify a bad thing with "I didn't do it! He did too."   Never learn? Never improve?

 

 

 

 

I call not having a government that, at the very least, does nothing over the murder of their opponents an improvement, your millage may vary though.
 

[heybruce]

 

 

 

Most of the problems you mention in relation to shut up and do as your told, don't question or debate decisions made by the leaders, accepting your leaders wisdom unconditionally, as well as arrogant leaders not listening to those below them leading to a debacle, could apply to the last PT govt.

 

Really?  Did they also impose martial law and censorship, put military checkpoints on the streets, rule by decree and make it illegal to call for elections?

 

 

They did something much worse, at the very least they turned a blind eye and allowed their supporters to murder people indiscriminately and with impunity.
 

 

 

Funny that no one in the former government has been charged with complicity.  Do you have any evidence, or are you just being childish and throwing inflammatory accusations? 

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by heybruce

[fab4]

 

 

 

 

 

 

They did something much worse, at the very least they turned a blind eye and allowed their supporters to murder people indiscriminately and with impunity.
 

 

Funny that no one in the former government has been charged with complicity.  Do you have any evidence, or are you just being childish and throwing inflammatory accusations? 
 

 

No idea. Probably need to ask those two dozen red-shirt Pheu Thai party list MPs, at least three of them (co-)leaders in the UDD. K. (I want amnesty) Korkaew , K. (it's on me) Nattawut and Dr. (democrat eradicating) weng.

 

Well at least none of the 100 military in the NLA seem to be former whatever party MP's.

 

 

So you have nothing to offer but innuendo either

[rubl]

 

 

 

They did something much worse, at the very least they turned a blind eye and allowed their supporters to murder people indiscriminately and with impunity.
 

 

Funny that no one in the former government has been charged with complicity.  Do you have any evidence, or are you just being childish and throwing inflammatory accusations? 
 

 

No idea. Probably need to ask those two dozen red-shirt Pheu Thai party list MPs, at least three of them (co-)leaders in the UDD. K. (I want amnesty) Korkaew , K. (it's on me) Nattawut and Dr. (democrat eradicating) weng.

 

Well at least none of the 100 military in the NLA seem to be former whatever party MP's.

 

 

So you have nothing to offer but innuendo either

 

 

Why blame me for what those three gentlemen have gone on record saying?

 

[heybruce]

 

 

 

 

 

Funny that no one in the former government has been charged with complicity.  Do you have any evidence, or are you just being childish and throwing inflammatory accusations? 
 

 

No idea. Probably need to ask those two dozen red-shirt Pheu Thai party list MPs, at least three of them (co-)leaders in the UDD. K. (I want amnesty) Korkaew , K. (it's on me) Nattawut and Dr. (democrat eradicating) weng.

 

Well at least none of the 100 military in the NLA seem to be former whatever party MP's.

 

 

So you have nothing to offer but innuendo either

 

 

Why blame me for what those three gentlemen have gone on record saying?

 

 

 

The three gentlemen were a small part of the government, they weren't the entire government.  Also, your short, out of context snippets, presumably quotes by the three, aren't very informative; did the three openly advocate violence against government opponents?

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by heybruce

[Old Man River]

Anyway, the topic of 100 military persons selected for the NLA doesn't seem interesting enough judging from all posts on other aspects.

Since the NLA isn't democratically elected, but selected AND since no one in charge has ever said the selection would be democratic, it would seem the hottest debate should be on whether or not these selected military have the right background and credentials to function in an NLA. Mind you, I would probably only get really useful comments like "we can't comment on that now"

Given the intention of the junta, I would say they are very qualified.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Mango Bob]

Are these active duty military officers double dipping?   Do they get paid from the NLA also?   or do they just get a lucrative allowance?

[ThailandNoob]

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.
 

If you're fed up, then maybe you should go and complain to the junta about their censorship rules. But before you do, just make sure you get everything ready to go on a 2 year vacation.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

 

 

 

 

 

You could say it is "sensitive issue"  it's too bad that you cannot stand any criticism of the Yingluck regime, and just seems to me that anyone not running a corrupt administration is no good.

 

As a poster it's my business to respond to comments that to MY MIND are negative, and repetitive as your agenda seemingly portrays. My comments are not personal they are aimed at your automatic replies to most posters that are praising the army.

Before the army it was ex pats critics of PTP then Dems-then Suthep-then elections-then blame everyone for not paying the farmers, now it's the army, and your comments from your other post about their income.

 

My comments about Yinglucks expenses were never mentioned here WHY ??   because it doesn't suit your rhetoric.

Do you understand you open yourself up to critics because of this type of posting.   But as you say not my business,  problem being TVF is for comments and replies so everyone is in the same position--we invite comment from our posts-  BUT repetitive denial in most cases causes friction.

 

 

Ginjag, can you not see the hypocrisy in what you say. You say that people cannot stand to see the YS regime being criticized, and comments are ignored because it does not fit your rhetoric. Do you not see that is exactly the same as what you are doing but for the army instead of YS?

 

 

Your twisting it, I said a certain few on TVF that have an agenda, rather than a spontaneous reply.  The few I mention are posting all the time this agenda.  To me it is not a view.

My stance is and always was.        I bash lousy non democratic governing.  elected or NOT.   

Do you not see --the last amin was just that, when the gates opened it showed a mile---so why defend that--ok to me again it is not normal.

 

I DO NOT have an agenda, I am not for army control---normally---but cannot YET see the wrong here unless proven otherwise.

What I fail to see is MB posts repetitive bashing for the sake of it.    You are also using yourself as a bolster for Bob, have you the same rhetoric-agenda ???

 

If the army ever conducts itself in the same manner as PTP I will be bashing their admin----This is the difference between   Bob and Me.and you.

 

 

"If the army ever conducts itself in the same manner as PTP I will be bashing their admin"

 

I'm curious, if the army keeps censorship in place, how will you do your bashing?

 

 

This is one item your agenda keeps throwing at normal posts. Anti army stuff, have you nothing better to do than use the censorship point for an argumentative post.  with you answering a smutcakes/ManngoBob posts rhetoric and agenda springs to mind again. Are you not allowed for some reason to praise some of the clean-up work done by the general??

 

The censorship is a safeguard from OTT rebel style groups who form clicks/mobs to try to undermine the reforms the army is making, if anyone gets done big time on this issue then they have been in some underground style work----This is not normal opposition, normal opposition will make points on any wrong turnings, constructive criticism is fine.   Problem on TVF minority of posters seem to have this agenda, rather than make a point of a topic they disagree with.

 

This was my original point to Bob, then Smutcakes and you homed in.     This is how I think ---but it is about doing right and wrong ---IN GENERAL.

with out nit picking.

[sjaak327]

 

 

 

"If the army ever conducts itself in the same manner as PTP I will be bashing their admin"

 

I'm curious, if the army keeps censorship in place, how will you do your bashing?

 

 

This is one item your agenda keeps throwing at normal posts. Anti army stuff, have you nothing better to do than use the censorship point for an argumentative post.  with you answering a smutcakes/ManngoBob posts rhetoric and agenda springs to mind again. Are you not allowed for some reason to praise some of the clean-up work done by the general??

 

The censorship is a safeguard from OTT rebel style groups who form clicks/mobs to try to undermine the reforms the army is making, if anyone gets done big time on this issue then they have been in some underground style work----This is not normal opposition, normal opposition will make points on any wrong turnings, constructive criticism is fine.   Problem on TVF minority of posters seem to have this agenda, rather than make a point of a topic they disagree with.

 

This was my original point to Bob, then Smutcakes and you homed in.     This is how I think ---but it is about doing right and wrong ---IN GENERAL.

with out nit picking.

 

 

Censorship a safeguard ? Opposition ? what opposition. There is no opposition, there is no freedom of speech, what the Army says is final.

 

If the army is so concerned about rebel style groups, one must wonder why Suthep was allowed to do what he did. Including violating the rights of Thai citizens. But I guess that was all ok, we don't want the Thai electorate to have a say in who should run their country.

 

It is much better to let it be run by some dodgy generals, free of corruption and utlerior motives. Give me a break please.

 

 

[sjaak327]

 

 

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.
 

If you're fed up, then maybe you should go and complain to the junta about their censorship rules. But before you do, just make sure you get everything ready to go on a 2 year vacation.
 

 

Oh come on, my dear chap.

 

If someone here posts "the military have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without doubt" should I really have to believe him? The next poster wrote "really what we are alluding to is quite obvious". 

 

Should I have to ask the military "well, this TVF member Sjakie said this and others told me it's true but cannot be explained. Could you military guys please explain to me?"

 

It's like former Pheu Thai spokesperson Promphon with his "I accuse you of this or that, please prove me wrong".

 

 

The big question here is why you want Sjakie to explain in the first place.

 

Do you actually believe the purpose and their duty is to stage a coup ? Or are their duties maybe to defend the country, be of assistance to the democratically elected government of the kingdom and Ensure the rights of Thai citizens are not being violated. I personally believe the latter to be their actual purpose and duty.

[heybruce]

 

 

 

As for the second paragraph, I'm getting somewhat fed up with posters stating things without doubt and others telling me those things cannot be explained at the moment.
 

If you're fed up, then maybe you should go and complain to the junta about their censorship rules. But before you do, just make sure you get everything ready to go on a 2 year vacation.
 

 

Oh come on, my dear chap.

 

If someone here posts "the military have indeed neglected their duties, that much is certain without doubt" should I really have to believe him? The next poster wrote "really what we are alluding to is quite obvious". 

 

Should I have to ask the military "well, this TVF member Sjakie said this and others told me it's true but cannot be explained. Could you military guys please explain to me?"

 

It's like former Pheu Thai spokesperson Promphon with his "I accuse you of this or that, please prove me wrong".

 

 

The big question here is why you want Sjakie to explain in the first place.

 

Do you actually believe the purpose and their duty is to stage a coup ? Or are their duties maybe to defend the country, be of assistance to the democratically elected government of the kingdom and Ensure the rights of Thai citizens are not being violated. I personally believe the latter to be their actual purpose and duty.

 

 

You beat me to it, and said it very well.  Good job.

 

[heybruce]

 

 

 

 

 

Ginjag, can you not see the hypocrisy in what you say. You say that people cannot stand to see the YS regime being criticized, and comments are ignored because it does not fit your rhetoric. Do you not see that is exactly the same as what you are doing but for the army instead of YS?

 

 

Your twisting it, I said a certain few on TVF that have an agenda, rather than a spontaneous reply.  The few I mention are posting all the time this agenda.  To me it is not a view.

My stance is and always was.        I bash lousy non democratic governing.  elected or NOT.   

Do you not see --the last amin was just that, when the gates opened it showed a mile---so why defend that--ok to me again it is not normal.

 

I DO NOT have an agenda, I am not for army control---normally---but cannot YET see the wrong here unless proven otherwise.

What I fail to see is MB posts repetitive bashing for the sake of it.    You are also using yourself as a bolster for Bob, have you the same rhetoric-agenda ???

 

If the army ever conducts itself in the same manner as PTP I will be bashing their admin----This is the difference between   Bob and Me.and you.

 

 

"If the army ever conducts itself in the same manner as PTP I will be bashing their admin"

 

I'm curious, if the army keeps censorship in place, how will you do your bashing?

 

 

This is one item your agenda keeps throwing at normal posts. Anti army stuff, have you nothing better to do than use the censorship point for an argumentative post.  with you answering a smutcakes/ManngoBob posts rhetoric and agenda springs to mind again. Are you not allowed for some reason to praise some of the clean-up work done by the general??

 

The censorship is a safeguard from OTT rebel style groups who form clicks/mobs to try to undermine the reforms the army is making, if anyone gets done big time on this issue then they have been in some underground style work----This is not normal opposition, normal opposition will make points on any wrong turnings, constructive criticism is fine.   Problem on TVF minority of posters seem to have this agenda, rather than make a point of a topic they disagree with.

 

This was my original point to Bob, then Smutcakes and you homed in.     This is how I think ---but it is about doing right and wrong ---IN GENERAL.

with out nit picking.

 

 

Now you're calling me anti-army, even though I'm retired from the military and proud of my service.  But I retired from a military that doesn't stage coups, and I think that's the way it should be.

"Are you not allowed for some reason to praise some of the clean-up work done by the general??"

 

No, not under these circumstances.  The only clean-up being done is police stuff, not the work the military should take on, and certainly not justification for a coup.  But I don't think fighting corruption is why the coup was staged.  I've now thrown something at the army other than censorship (not for the first time).  Are you happy?

 

Regarding your second paragraph, you come across as being quite paranoid about sinister hidden forces. 
 

You've completely ignored the question I asked.  Have you not thought that one through?