The end of corruption, am I the only one who will miss it?

[Thaiberius]

 

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

 

Yep, got that wrong. I'll replace it with votes not being bought in their hundreds of thousands. 

[Bernard Flint]

 

 

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

 

Yep, got that wrong. I'll replace it with votes not being bought in their hundreds of thousands. 

 

None of us are perfect

[Toscano]

I don't expect to see much change , yes , there is an attempt to stamp out corrupting among politicians and officials , but causing an effect on ordinary
people is unlikely . My view is that corruption is part of Thai everyday life , that trying to stamp it out would be like stamping out a forest fire , it would rise right up again in another place . Will people be happier ? I doubt it .

[Lockind]

 

Why does the absence of corruption mean "nanny state"

 

It doesn't, I said so in the first line of the OP.

 

RE your other points, they're a side issue to the OP... but it's not that I want only the rich to get off.  The only thing I 'want' is for Thailand and other countries like Thailand to not turn into the western countries.  If this means money talks, I support that.  The people with money more often than not have worked hard to earn that money (I understand some people are born into wealth).  I appreciate that there are cases of poor rice farmers never having any opportunity to earn large sums of money; I don't have the answer to that but I do know that that is a better system than the judicial system that I see in the UK, for example, where the rule of law is followed to the letter and everybody is fleeced of whatever wealth they have when they are in violation of criminal or civil law (often petty infractions).  The wealthier you are in the UK, the bigger your fine, this clearly does not reward hard-work, it punishes success.

 

I understand my opinion is a minority one.

[manarak]

I think we must distinguish between "simple corruption" and "damaging corruption".

 

I call simple corruption cases of bribery for getting off the hook in a traffic offense, getting a work permit approved, making the police look another way regarding club/bar opening times or licences, etc. or also bribery of corporate or government officials to get a sale through (supposing there is no fraud in the actual wares or services that are delivered).

In these cases, no damage or very limited damage is done to society.

 

Then there are cases where corruption damages society, such as bribery to bypass safety regulations, bribery to build on national parks, bribery to not only make a sale but also deliver faulty wares or services, bribery to cover up criminal activity, etc.

 

The first type of corruption I can very well live with, the second part should be cracked down on because it's dangerous.

 

my 2 cents.

[Seastallion]

 

 

Why does the absence of corruption mean "nanny state"

 

It doesn't, I said so in the first line of the OP.

 

RE your other points, they're a side issue to the OP... but it's not that I want only the rich to get off.  The only thing I 'want' is for Thailand and other countries like Thailand to not turn into the western countries.  If this means money talks, I support that.  The people with money more often than not have worked hard to earn that money (I understand some people are born into wealth).  I appreciate that there are cases of poor rice farmers never having any opportunity to earn large sums of money; I don't have the answer to that but I do know that that is a better system than the judicial system that I see in the UK, for example, where the rule of law is followed to the letter and everybody is fleeced of whatever wealth they have when they are in violation of criminal or civil law (often petty infractions).  The wealthier you are in the UK, the bigger your fine, this clearly does not reward hard-work, it punishes success.

 

I understand my opinion is a minority one.

 

Read your title, read your original post, read your replies.......and this last post is BS or big time change of stance. (much of it is BS anyway)

 

The only thing you're not changing is that you want your money to pay for you to get off your infractions or crimes. My points are not side issues, they address your stance; You want corruption so that you can get an advantage, yet you do not want bureaucracy...but I assume you do want street lights and policemen to catch murderers.

Nobody is fleeced of their wealth for any petty infraction, and the rule of law and the fines prescribed apply no matter what your financial situation is....a ridiculous comment.

 

Cake. Can't have it and eat it.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Seastallion

[Bernard Flint]

Thaksin didnt seem to damage Thailand too much, keep the baht weak i say

 

 

[thairastawoman]

Who believe it will last ?

 

It's luckily impossible.

 

Anyway guess who will win the next election ?

 

Am I the only one to know ?

[Ragzilb]

Corruption/Envy/Covetousness/Avarice will only end when mankind is extinct.

 

I dont believe that, there are ways to make everything better even your life as well :D 

[spidermike007]

In order for the military to really root out corruption, the entire judiciary needs to be reformed. You have some of the weakest, and some of the most compromised judges, and prosecutors in all of Asia, of course excepting Cambodia, and Burma. They are always excepted, since they have no real judiciary to speak of. Anyone with cash, can buy off the majority of the prosecutors, and judges here, according to several major, independent international organizations. Just look at the Red Bull heir? Where did that case go? What rug was that swept under? He killed a policeman! They have to start with the judiciary. It does not mean anything to make arrests, if they will not go anywhere. 

[khrab]

...

War-ravaged Germany, which put in place a robust and accountable social framework on the other hand, now has a high standard of living, good education and work opportunities for its youth, excellent healthcare, etc.
...

 

 

 

 

Sorry from a German.

 

There is no place in the world where a German gets more discriminated as in Germany. In Thailand at least I am a second-class-citizen and sometimes I even manage to get the top spot.
 

[smokie36]

Help I need my Valium... .. .:-(

[benalibina]

[attachment=277303:Screenshot_2014-07-29-23-41-38-1.png]

[Thaiberius]

Screenshot_2014-07-29-23-41-38-1.png

But they can be imitated (in some cases)

[benalibina]

Screenshot_2014-07-29-23-41-38-1.png

But they can be imitated (in some cases)

This topic is about corruption in Thailand and if the present rulers are able to put a stop to it and if we live to see it happen. Many comments have been made. An interesting one was the difference between corruption and commission. Those exist everywhere in the world. To change a mentality regarding this phenomenen it must begin at the top. They need to set the right example. If they cant or are unwilling to do that nothing will change. A commission of truth/reconcilliation can only be the real start of ending this poisonous behaviour.

My very first experience with commission in thailand was when we had problems with our landlord in 2006. Police became involved and a detective came to our house to offer protection, without asking for money, to me. My wife let him out and 5 min later she came upstairs and.....i told her yes yes i know...how much he wants. Anyway we left the house couple days after so did not need his protection. A week later he called my wife and asked if at childrens day we would be willing to donate a couple of boxes of beer for his family to go
to the beach , he had 2 kids.!! I was flabbergasted when my wife told me.....no shame no morals.....on
childrens day, for crying out loud !!

As i have never had a small business in thailand i cant tell from personal experience about monetary
handouts requested to keep a blind eye or for allowance to break the law ( closing hours ). Heard enough though from businessowners about it.

Personally i think we have to wait and see what will happen in the coming times. Without tea money though many many civil servants, lower end, will suffer financially from it. It will have a big impact on their lifestyle. Its all about trust and setting an example from the top brass.

[In Search of Space]

...

War-ravaged Germany, which put in place a robust and accountable social framework on the other hand, now has a high standard of living, good education and work opportunities for its youth, excellent healthcare, etc.
...
 

 

 
 
Sorry from a German.
 
There is no place in the world where a German gets more discriminated as in Germany. In Thailand at least I am a second-class-citizen and sometimes I even manage to get the top spot.
 

I think we can say the same about uk


we tried so hard to make everything cool

[spidermike007]

 

I like to think of life as a game, and those who play the system best, profit most; I like that ideology. When it's dog eat dog the fittest will thrive.

In such a system, it's not the fittest that thrive. Those with talents and skills but no connections get nowhere. Those with less talent and skills, but with connections and no social conscience get to the top.

The end result is the rise of mediocrity, rule by the heartless, the rape of resources, mass impoverishment and ultimate social breakdown. For example countries which were universally deemed to have the greatest promise in the late 1940's--The Philippines, Burma, Zimbabwe--are now basket cases.

War-ravaged Germany, which put in place a robust and accountable social framework on the other hand, now has a high standard of living, good education and work opportunities for its youth, excellent healthcare, etc.

In the case of Thailand, there has not been put in place the necessary administrative and legislative framework for a true accountability system. Perhaps it will happen later in the Junta's roadmap. So far all we've seen is ad hoc action coupled with a PR blitz. There is no framework in place to ensure the sustainability of any of the recent achievements.

T

 

 

 

 

Framework. Planning. Long term sustainability. Vision. A plan for the future. A roadmap. A blueprint. Consistency in policy, from one administration to the next. Putting into place the necessary administrative and legislative framework, for a truly accountable system (quoted from the above post). And did I mention massive judicial reform, which would be required for the legislative framework to mean anything in the long term? None of these ideas are something you see here. Why is that? Is there no ability to see the forest beyond the trees? Is there something about the culture which discourages one from thinking long term?

[Thai at Heart]

Unfortunately a functioning society needs rules and regulations.

The absence or rules and enforcement leads to unjust and chaotic society. Escaping a so called nanny state or bureaucracy might be an ideal but, you have to take the rough with the smooth.

[Thakkar]

 

I like to think of life as a game, and those who play the system best, profit most; I like that ideology. When it's dog eat dog the fittest will thrive.

In such a system, it's not the fittest that thrive. Those with talents and skills but no connections get nowhere. Those with less talent and skills, but with connections and no social conscience get to the top.

The end result is the rise of mediocrity, rule by the heartless, the rape of resources, mass impoverishment and ultimate social breakdown. For example countries which were universally deemed to have the greatest promise in the late 1940's--The Philippines, Burma, Zimbabwe--are now basket cases.

War-ravaged Germany, which put in place a robust and accountable social framework on the other hand, now has a high standard of living, good education and work opportunities for its youth, excellent healthcare, etc.

In the case of Thailand, there has not been put in place the necessary administrative and legislative framework for a true accountability system. Perhaps it will happen later in the Junta's roadmap. So far all we've seen is ad hoc action coupled with a PR blitz. There is no framework in place to ensure the sustainability of any of the recent achievements.

T
 

 
 
 
Framework. Planning. Long term sustainability. Vision. A plan for the future. A roadmap. A blueprint. Consistency in policy, from one administration to the next. Putting into place the necessary administrative and legislative framework, for a truly accountable system (quoted from the above post). And did I mention massive judicial reform, which would be required for the legislative framework to mean anything in the long term? None of these ideas are something you see here. Why is that? Is there no ability to see the forest beyond the trees? Is there something about the culture which discourages one from thinking long term?

It seems to me this is what you are asking:
Is Thai culture inherently stupefying? Such a question could (though not necessarily) imply that Western culture is somehow "superior." I'm not sure what "superior" or "inferior" even mean when applied to culture.

Some societies are better organized than others. Partly, this is a product of culture. Mostly though, a myriad of factors are involved including geography, climate, historical accidents, geopolitical events, etc. Culture itself is also a result of these factors.

If there are coherent arguments out there that point to Thai culture as inherently inimical to progress, I'd be interested to read about it. I seriously doubt that such a case can be made.

T