Canadian Journalist Shot Dead By Girlfriend In Chiang Mai

[hawaiianeyes]

It is frustrating to have a discussion about a topic and after reading so many flowery words not knowing where a person stands on an issue. I think that there are far too many people who hide behind a PC facade in order to avoid the pain of making a clear decision.

When you add to the mix the underlying love/hate that men and women have towards each other than it dosen't take much of a spark to set off a huge blaze.

I apologize for any lack of clarity on my part.

For the record, my opinion in our virtual courtroom of virtual jurors,

IF SHE brought the gun and thereby demonstrated premediatated intent, fatally shot him in the chest at close range, then never mind all the pyscho-babble about background, I vote that that she should be held fully accountable and receive the stiffest sentence such crimes bring in the Kingdom of Thailand.

IF HE brought the gun, started the rowe, hit her, taunted her with the weapon, tormented her with his financial power over her and the children, then she snapped (now all the weird miserable background of 27 years really does come into consideration) snatched the weapon and shot him accidentally rendering a fatal injury as he ran away across the parking lot, I vote that she should be found guilty of manslaughter and be extradited to Canada to have them decide the sentance.

To me it all boils down to the question of premeditation and intent.

[LoveDaBlues]

It is frustrating to have a discussion about a topic and after reading so many flowery words not knowing where a person stands on an issue. I think that there are far too many people who hide behind a PC facade in order to avoid the pain of making a clear decision.

When you add to the mix the underlying love/hate that men and women have towards each other than it dosen't take much of a spark to set off a huge blaze.

I apologize for any lack of clarity on my part.

For the record, my opinion in our virtual courtroom of virtual jurors,

IF SHE brought the gun and thereby demonstrated premediatated intent, fatally shot him in the chest at close range, then never mind all the pyscho-babble about background, I vote that that she should be held fully accountable and receive the stiffest sentence such crimes bring in the Kingdom of Thailand.

IF HE brought the gun, started the rowe, hit her, taunted her with the weapon, tormented her with his financial power over her and the children, then she snapped (now all the weird miserable background of 27 years really does come into consideration) snatched the weapon and

shot him accidentally

rendering a fatal injury as he ran away across the parking lot, I vote that she should be found guilty of manslaughter and be extradited to Canada to have them decide the sentance.

To me it all boils down to the question of premeditation and intent.

Margaret Crane, 48, was arrested by Thai police after she allegedly shot Dubie three times in the chest with a .38 revolver, then fled in a car. She was later apprehended by police.

'accidentally' shot him 3 times?

[fruittbatt]

It is frustrating to have a discussion about a topic and after reading so many flowery words not knowing where a person stands on an issue. I think that there are far too many people who hide behind a PC facade in order to avoid the pain of making a clear decision.

When you add to the mix the underlying love/hate that men and women have towards each other than it dosen't take much of a spark to set off a huge blaze.

the great challenge is to persist in trying to communicate even in the face of the kind of abuse that posters like Loaded see fit to throw into the mix.

I try to address the complexity of the topic and do not apologise for refusing to reduce this issue to a "should she fry or not?" black and white answer. That seems to me to be the wrong question because we are not only dealing in legalistic interpretations of these events. Nor is it my place to do the work of the courts in pronouncing a verdict. Because I do not agree to limit the discussion to the terms you seek to impose on it, that does not make me "PC" or indecisive... Like other posters I reserve the right to express our own strong rational AND emotionally complex opinions. This complexity means that there is room for talk about compassion for all human beings...even Loaded...advocating compassion does not mean being "weak"...it allows the law to do its business and allows others to deal with murder, violence, and other forms of existential pain in empathetic ways that the law does not have power to do.

Edited September 6, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Loaded]

"should she fry or not?"

YES, along with all the other loonies in this world.

27 years of abuse!!! what the f***, what stopped her from walking away from the guy at the start? - MONEY

Sorry about the directness of this and my last post but I cracked when I read that hippy poetry garbage when we're discussing a dead man and a loony irresponsible woman (5 kids and no independent means of support ever!!!)

[fruittbatt]

"should she fry or not?"

YES, along with all the other loonies in this world.

27 years of abuse!!! what the f***, what stopped her from walking away from the guy at the start? - MONEY

Sorry about the directness of this and my last post but I cracked when I read that hippy poetry garbage when we're discussing a dead man and a loony irresponsible woman (5 kids and no independent means of support ever!!!)

hang on a tick...Loaded, you are making a huge assumption about Jeana Hart/Margaret Crane and her reasons for staying around GPD. I've lost the web reference right now, but if you search under Jeana Hart and Honolulu Star you'll find a pic of her at a post office in Hawaii a few years back, wheeling a trolley full of massive parcels. OK they may have been Xmas gifts, but look further under Jeana Hart raw foods and you'll possibly come to the same conclusion that I did...that Jeana was involved in a business exporting blenders (or something) to other countries from Hawaii.

So why did she stay for 27 years? I think she was a bit of a mover and shaker to start with and that Dubie relied on her abilities: (see Sarada's story about Jeana/Margaret's complicity in organising kidnapping, fugitive activities). Later she may have kidded herself and been manipulated into believing that she was "the one" true love among all the other women, and may have truly believed his lies and dismissed her own better judgment of the situation. Then, when she had 6 kids she was possibly too used to the situation to consider changing anything...this is supposition. The reality may have been that she was completely independent but liked having Dubie around when he chose to drop by....we don't know, so we can't judge...

Quite apart from the question of her earning her own income, how about the fact that she must have worked damned hard to bring up 5 or 6 kids, and that her domestic work is a valid form of work for which she is entitled to payment from GPD-the father of these children...who was apparently mega-rich and could well afford to pay for their maintenance...

Edited September 6, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Schooner]

My complements on espressing a clear opinion Fruttbat. That wasn't so hard was it? As you see when we are clear about how we feel about something than other people can agree or disagree based on our expressed opinion.

Lovedablues does have a good point, you have to admit. I think he put it quite well.

If I were decideing this case I would have problems with the fact that she stayed in this bizzare relationship for as long as she did thus exposing herself to the level of anger necessary to actually take somebodys life. She must have been practicing shooting a gun because I don't think I could pull off two shots to the chest at the distance noted (one in the arm)

So I give you that she was one pissed off cowboy and maybe manslaugther is the more appropriate charge, but why should she get to go back to Canada? What is your logic with that?

There's also the issue of whats best for the children and I think this woman kept having babies with this guy in order to keep the disfuctional relation going which makes her very selfish. She further caused damage to the children by keeping them exposed to him. If it is true that he abused the children as well as her I have a real problem with why she chose to do that. As I said before she has at the least been a bad example for her children and as such should be kept away from them. hel_l, I know far to many people that are kept from seeing there children for a lot less.

[fruittbatt]

My complements on espressing a clear opinion Fruttbat. That wasn't so hard was it? As you see when we are clear about how we feel about something than other people can agree or disagree based on our expressed opinion.

Lovedablues does have a good point, you have to admit. I think he put it quite well.

If I were decideing this case I would have problems with the fact that she stayed in this bizzare relationship for as long as she did thus exposing herself to the level of anger necessary to actually take somebodys life. She must have been practicing shooting a gun because I don't think I could pull off two shots to the chest at the distance noted (one in the arm)

So I give you that she was one pissed off cowboy and maybe manslaugther is the more appropriate charge, but why should she get to go back to Canada? What is your logic with that?

There's also the issue of whats best for the children and I think this woman kept having babies with this guy in order to keep the disfuctional relation going which makes her very selfish. She further caused damage to the children by keeping them exposed to him. If it is true that he abused the children as well as her I have a real problem with why she chose to do that. As I said before she has at the least been a bad example for her children and as such should be kept away from them. hel_l, I know far to many people that are kept from seeing there children for a lot less.

I wouldn't know how to handle a gun without practice/training. Margaret /Jeana had lived in the US so chances are she may have owned a gun and known how to use it. The fact that she shot and killed Dubie does not -by itself-imply pre-meditation, although it does suggest remarkably quick reflexes in an emotionally loaded situation.

i have never advocated Jeana/Margaret's extradition to Canada - must have been another poster...I think SpecialK. There is some support in Canada to seek extradition since many there feel it is her best hope for a fair trial.

Your judgment about why Jeana/Margaret had six children by Dubie are premised on an expectation that they lived together in a conventional partnership, with conventional roles of male breadwinner and dependent wife who wanted to keep the man with her by popping babies out. From what i understand, she lived independently for much of the time. I have a friend with five kids, most by different fathers. She is a highly successful practising barrister who doesn't give a shit about convention. She is able to give her kids heaps of attention and love and they are quite relaxed and happy with a variety of adults, men and women.

The difference between this woman and Margaret/Jeana is that she would never tolerate abuse to herself or her kids and no one would ever try it on with her. I suspect that Jeana/Margaret may have had a long history of abuse starting from childhood or from her early relationship with Dubie. Why didn't she snap out of it when her kids were evidently being abused, too? I don't know. It is incomprehensible to me ...I can only think that like women described in Sarada's story of her years with Dubie, Jeana may have been persuaded that she was "wrong" and he was acting in the best interest of all concerned...all very twisted and sickening. Maybe those with more direct experience can give a better explanation of what makes anyone tolerate this stuff...

[fruittbatt]

I have been trying to crystallize my thoughts about what allows women to tolerate abuse to their children. Firstly I think lack of self-esteem and a history of abuse which abused women consider to be "normal": I think that attitude works like this - if it was OK for your own father to belt you or sexually molest you then maybe this is OK for the father of your kids too. However, I think most abused women seek to protect their children and would draw the line and refuse to allow their kids to be abused.

A second possibility is that a woman who is mentally manipulated for a long period may have lost the ability to make independent moral judgments...even when they affect innocent kids. This too is probably rare.

A third real-life scenario is that some women tolerate their partner's abuse of the kids because it gets the partner off their own case (especially women married to violent alcoholics: many - or men who are sexually violent: a small minority). This response is also very sick and a total denial of any responsibility for the situation.

In the case of Margaret/Jeana, we do not know when she discovered the alleged abuse. Maybe her act was even an outraged response to finding out about the abuse of her kids?

[hawaiianeyes]

IF HE brought the gun, started the rowe, hit her, taunted her with the weapon, tormented her with his financial power over her and the children, then she snapped (now all the weird miserable background of 27 years really does come into consideration) snatched the weapon and shot him accidentally rendering a fatal injury as he ran away across the parking lot, I vote that she should be found guilty of manslaughter and be extradited to Canada to have them decide the sentance.[/indent]

To me it all boils down to the question of premeditation and intent.

Margaret Crane, 48, was arrested by Thai police after she allegedly shot Dubie three times in the chest with a .38 revolver, then fled in a car. She was later apprehended by police.

'accidentally' shot him 3 times?

You seem to have merged my

"accidentally rendering a fatal injury" with your news quote of

"allegedely shot 3 times"

Let me try to clarify my point. I do not think she accidently shot him 3 times,

but that the outcome COULD HAVE BEEN an accident of the moment of rage and/or self defense, thus an unpremeditated fatality.

If the option I laid out above is what HE did, I suspect she garnered every bit of determination at that moment to put the guy out of her misery. She may have harbored such fantasies of revenge but never had the means, motive, & opportunity all laid out in a split second. There is case law as precedent in this regard to consider that has manslaughter as the outcome.

I do not support/excuse/condone her action or taking of a human life. Also troubling, I won't defend her staying by his side and facilitating his oppression of others. But like Fruittbatt points out we cannot know her inner psyche.

If the charge is manslaughter, the reason I would ( in this virtual courtroom) recomend extradition to Canada is to support the possiblity of rehabilitation. The fact that she is a mother (never mind armchair judgements of her fitness) and that the children would benefit from her restoration of capacity prompts me to suggest her return to her country of origin to be dealt with by Canadian justice and social services.

[LoveDaBlues]

Okay; such moving poetry here I was inspired to write my own.

There was a flower child named Crane,

with a tiny pea for a brain.

She shot poor Dubie;

No this is not a move;

Her time in Thai jail won't be groovy!

[hawaiianeyes]

"should she fry or not?"

YES, along with all the other loonies in this world.

27 years of abuse!!! what the f***, what stopped her from walking away from the guy at the start? - MONEY

Sorry about the directness of this and my last post but I cracked when I read that hippy poetry garbage when we're discussing a dead man and a loony irresponsible woman (5 kids and no independent means of support ever!!!)

Thank you for your general apology and I am sorry to crack you up with my "poem" but in fairness I did include a *warning.

But just to let you know, I do not live with fairies or have weird glasses. You may be even more horrified to find out that I am not a hippie and never have been, that I have an IQ of 147, speak 5 languages, am a professional, have 3 patents, can trouble shoot a circuit board, rebuild a carburetor, competently perform veterinary microsurgery and compete in triathalons all without a man to hold my hand.

OK I have a brain and I am not "bloody useless" nor dependent on a man.

I also have a heart.

The 2 are not mutually exclusive. My ability to feel and my desire/clumsy attempts to put some of these emotions into language is not incompatible with intelligence, independence or social usefulness.

This event and the discussion on this forum have given me a new way to look at stuff I repressed but never processed years ago. I would like to believe that my intellect, academic training, financial status would protect me from trauma and enable me to rapidly recover, but it is not true. In our modern insistent rush to "MOVE ON", I think most people just suck it up and go on. I have, but anything a person can do to get more perspective and heal I think is good. I am fully functional in my professional life but there is some part of me still shut down. I would like that back. On the other hand, regardless I will continue to just march on.

[specialk]

I can see how a guy like this could so easily manipulate some of the women that have posted on this thread - you're quite pathetic, living your life like hippy fairies dancing in a rose tinted world. You people need men because you're too bloody useless to survive without them supporting you.

Not one of you could be trusted in a position of responsibility because you'd always be focussing on emotion.

Your name suits you loaded, You must be loaded on some of your fine thai stick or else you are just and idiot.

[specialk]

It is frustrating to have a discussion about a topic and after reading so many flowery words not knowing where a person stands on an issue. I think that there are far too many people who hide behind a PC facade in order to avoid the pain of making a clear decision.

When you add to the mix the underlying love/hate that men and women have towards each other than it dosen't take much of a spark to set off a huge blaze.

I apologize for any lack of clarity on my part.

For the record, my opinion in our virtual courtroom of virtual jurors,

IF SHE brought the gun and thereby demonstrated premediatated intent, fatally shot him in the chest at close range, then never mind all the pyscho-babble about background, I vote that that she should be held fully accountable and receive the stiffest sentence such crimes bring in the Kingdom of Thailand.

IF HE brought the gun, started the rowe, hit her, taunted her with the weapon, tormented her with his financial power over her and the children, then she snapped (now all the weird miserable background of 27 years really does come into consideration) snatched the weapon and shot him accidentally rendering a fatal injury as he ran away across the parking lot, I vote that she should be found guilty of manslaughter and be extradited to Canada to have them decide the sentance.

To me it all boils down to the question of premeditation and intent.

Thank-you, Hawaiianeyes,,,,,I agree.

[specialk]

I'm wondering why you are defending this victim mentality. On the one hand you agree that all of her abuse does not justify murder but then you go on to make the argument that men have all the power like maybe your not sure.

A month or so ago here in Pattaya a man brutally murdered a thai woman because after he spent a fortune on her she betrayed him. I'm assuming that you would agree that he should fry regardless of his background and his life experences. So do I. I'm not going to say that the fact that she probably manipulated him and lied to him has anything to do with it. I'm not going to suggest that because of a evolutanary predisposition that men have to seek out sexual partners he was blinded and victim of his own biological needs and that made him vunrable to her lies. Perhaps we should blame the thai government for creating this wonderland for men and failing to properly warn them of the pitfalls. Gimmie a break.

I've read the same threads about thai/farang relationships that you have and what I'm hearing is men saying that while economics play a role (as they do everywhere in the world) the basis for the relationships that work are mutual respect, communication, honesty, and shared goals.

I'm hurt that you would suggest that my TGF is not with me for my good looks, wit and charm. (I think I need another hug) Perhaps you have seen that recent surveys of women place intelligence, humor, charm and honesty as most important in relationships. I believe that to be true here and in the west. I would add experence to that list. Do you think it make sense for a young person to seek out a mentor? You may have noticed that obtaining a mentor is all the rage in the west now and most of the successful people I know have at least one.

I would also submit that the economic disparity that exists here has more to do with culture than gender. You may be aware that there is a significant gay population here and the same kinds of relationship problems occur. For that matter they occur the same way in the west.

I love that label "sex tourist" but it seems to me that since I have always wanted sex it dosen't quite describe me. For example, the first sex I had was with myself so I would be better described during that period as a "sex monoest" Seems like since I was always thinking about sex (but not getting much) I might be better described as a "sex fantasist" I was alway on the look out for sex in my home country so was I a "sex resident" All of the women I've known enjoyed great sex too, but they were conflicted about it so maybe they are "sex ambivalist" Since many women use sex as a weapon against men to get there emotional needs met, perhaps they should be "sex terrorest" Fun with labels.

I know some very successful women back in the states and I think you would be hard pressed to convince them that gender issues were holding them back. Actually I think they would be offended by your argument. Frankly, I will never be convinced that compitition between men and women can ever hold a candle to the compitition between men and men.

I think that the reason that men get along better with thai women is because the gender "roles" are more clearly defined. I was involved in the fad for men to get in touch with there "feminine side" great experence, but what I discovered was I don't have one. What I do have is a need for intimacy, connection with others, acceptance, and validation. Most of those needs are met internally and the ones that get met by others are best met by other men who have a clue. I think this makes me completly available to share a balanced life with women.

So, back to the issue. Am I to assume that since you say "nothing excuses killing" that you now agree that she should fry? Maybe you think that she should be comforted and allowed to return to being a bad example for her children? Maybe you're ambivalent.

[fruittbatt]

Okay; such moving poetry here I was inspired to write my own.

There was a flower child named Crane,

with a tiny pea for a brain.

She shot poor Dubie;

No this is not a move;

Her time in Thai jail won't be groovy!

there was a poster- Love da Blues-

whose "poetry" was mere abuse

whose doggerel did not amuse

even the most simple minded.

[fruittbatt]

"should she fry or not?"

YES, along with all the other loonies in this world.

27 years of abuse!!! what the f***, what stopped her from walking away from the guy at the start? - MONEY

Sorry about the directness of this and my last post but I cracked when I read that hippy poetry garbage when we're discussing a dead man and a loony irresponsible woman (5 kids and no independent means of support ever!!!)

Thank you for your general apology and I am sorry to crack you up with my "poem" but in fairness I did include a *warning.

But just to let you know, I do not live with fairies or have weird glasses. You may be even more horrified to find out that I am not a hippie and never have been, that I have an IQ of 147, speak 5 languages, am a professional, have 3 patents, can trouble shoot a circuit board, rebuild a carburetor, competently perform veterinary microsurgery and compete in triathalons all without a man to hold my hand.

OK I have a brain and I am not "bloody useless" nor dependent on a man.

I also have a heart.

The 2 are not mutually exclusive. My ability to feel and my desire/clumsy attempts to put some of these emotions into language is not incompatible with intelligence, independence or social usefulness.

This event and the discussion on this forum have given me a new way to look at stuff I repressed but never processed years ago. I would like to believe that my intellect, academic training, financial status would protect me from trauma and enable me to rapidly recover, but it is not true. In our modern insistent rush to "MOVE ON", I think most people just suck it up and go on. I have, but anything a person can do to get more perspective and heal I think is good. I am fully functional in my professional life but there is some part of me still shut down. I would like that back. On the other hand, regardless I will continue to just march on.

A courageous and sincere personal statement: you'll find the "repressed" bits because you are looking for them. Best.

[specialk]

My complements on espressing a clear opinion Fruttbat. That wasn't so hard was it? As you see when we are clear about how we feel about something than other people can agree or disagree based on our expressed opinion.

Lovedablues does have a good point, you have to admit. I think he put it quite well.

If I were decideing this case I would have problems with the fact that she stayed in this bizzare relationship for as long as she did thus exposing herself to the level of anger necessary to actually take somebodys life. She must have been practicing shooting a gun because I don't think I could pull off two shots to the chest at the distance noted (one in the arm)

So I give you that she was one pissed off cowboy and maybe manslaugther is the more appropriate charge, but why should she get to go back to Canada? What is your logic with that?

There's also the issue of whats best for the children and I think this woman kept having babies with this guy in order to keep the disfuctional relation going which makes her very selfish. She further caused damage to the children by keeping them exposed to him. If it is true that he abused the children as well as her I have a real problem with why she chose to do that. As I said before she has at the least been a bad example for her children and as such should be kept away from them. hel_l, I know far to many people that are kept from seeing there children for a lot less.

I wouldn't know how to handle a gun without practice/training. Margaret /Jeana had lived in the US so chances are she may have owned a gun and known how to use it. The fact that she shot and killed Dubie does not -by itself-imply pre-meditation, although it does suggest remarkably quick reflexes in an emotionally loaded situation.

i have never advocated Jeana/Margaret's extradition to Canada - must have been another poster...I think SpecialK. There is some support in Canada to seek extradition since many there feel it is her best hope for a fair trial.

Your judgment about why Jeana/Margaret had six children by Dubie are premised on an expectation that they lived together in a conventional partnership, with conventional roles of male breadwinner and dependent wife who wanted to keep the man with her by popping babies out. From what i understand, she lived independently for much of the time. I have a friend with five kids, most by different fathers. She is a highly successful practising barrister who doesn't give a shit about convention. She is able to give her kids heaps of attention and love and they are quite relaxed and happy with a variety of adults, men and women.

The difference between this woman and Margaret/Jeana is that she would never tolerate abuse to herself or her kids and no one would ever try it on with her. I suspect that Jeana/Margaret may have had a long history of abuse starting from childhood or from her early relationship with Dubie. Why didn't she snap out of it when her kids were evidently being abused, too? I don't know. It is incomprehensible to me ...I can only think that like women described in Sarada's story of her years with Dubie, Jeana may have been persuaded that she was "wrong" and he was acting in the best interest of all concerned...all very twisted and sickening. Maybe those with more direct experience can give a better explanation of what makes anyone tolerate this stuff...

I would like to comment on suspecting that Jeana/Maggie may have had years of abuse herself....I would be very surprized at this. I have not met Maggie's parents, but have spoken to her mother enough times to know that this is out of the question. When my daughter, Calista was abducted from me and kept in hiding, I of course got a hold of everyone I could and went everywhere I could to search for her. I, at this time, got ahold of Maggies parents in Canada and her mother was so very kind and concerned for me. She was at a loss as to why, her daughter, could stay with this horrible GPD and promised to help me. This mother right now must be so very overwhelmed by all of this. She had already raised Maggies first child and I want to tell you, she did a magnificent job and I know she has done all a parent can do to try and rid GPD from her childs life, but even she couldn't keep them apart. Maggie was so brainwashed by Dubie, she could never escape him.

[fruittbatt]

I would like to comment on suspecting that Jeana/Maggie may have had years of abuse herself....I would be very surprized at this. I have not met Maggie's parents, but have spoken to her mother enough times to know that this is out of the question. When my daughter, Calista was abducted from me and kept in hiding, I of course got a hold of everyone I could and went everywhere I could to search for her. I, at this time, got ahold of Maggies parents in Canada and her mother was so very kind and concerned for me. She was at a loss as to why, her daughter, could stay with this horrible GPD and promised to help me. This mother right now must be so very overwhelmed by all of this. She had already raised Maggies first child and I want to tell you, she did a magnificent job and I know she has done all a parent can do to try and rid GPD from her childs life, but even she couldn't keep them apart. Maggie was so brainwashed by Dubie, she could never escape him.

Thanks, SpecialK. It's good to hear that Jeana/Maggie's mother is such a caring woman. If she is still living she must feel terrible grief over her daughter and grand-kids.

[Schooner]

Wow, I'm impressed. now were getting somewhere.

Thank you Hawaiianeyes for your honest input. You just went up a couple of notches in my book. It seems to me that's what this forum stuff is about is putting our raw feelings out there and getting feedback from others. Yes, some will be pretty rough on us, but you have to admit it's better than being ignored.

I can relate to your background of sucess and I think that generally people who are extremly competient are using the accumulation of knowledge to occupy themselves and overcome feelings of inadaquacy (speaking for myself that is) at some point it no longer worked for me and I had to start doing things differently. Eventually I had to process some things and it's one step forward and two steps back from that point on.

Through out my effort to get a grip I've tried many different processes. Some of the people I encountered seemed to me to be stuck in the process and it became there identity. So you could say that I'm accutely sensitive to PC stuff. It has a language and fundamentilism of it's own.

Would anyone dissagree that when you aim a gun a another human and pull the trigger 3 times you are putting your fate into the hands of others? As I think about it, this may be the first time in her life that she may be held accountable. I would find it hard to believe that if he was involved in cons and criminal activity that she would not be also. Which is another reason for her to be kept away from her children

[Loaded]

But just to let you know, I do not live with fairies or have weird glasses. You may be even more horrified to find out that I am not a hippie and never have been, that I have an IQ of 147, speak 5 languages, am a professional, have 3 patents, can trouble shoot a circuit board, rebuild a carburetor, competently perform veterinary microsurgery and compete in triathalons all without a man to hold my hand.

OK I have a brain and I am not "bloody useless" nor dependent on a man.

I also have a heart.

Fancy a coffee?

[BlackJack]

mmmmmmm

all very interesting stuff

However when I read all this I must bring into the light that the Thai courts will disregard most of it.

Thai courts dont have the luxury of time to listen to such defence strategies

A lot of it will also be lost in translation as court sessions are in Thai.

Why she did it can be debated forever and unfortunately having done this in THailand negates her western abused defence, as I cant see the defence flying in expert witness to verify it.

Loaded is that offer for coffee for everyone or dont you like big hairy men

[Loaded]

Loaded is that offer for coffee for everyone or dont you like big hairy men

I'm not fussy

[Schooner]

Boy, what some guys will do for a free coffee.

[Schooner]

Anybody have an update on her status?

[BlackJack]

Anybody have an update on her status?

last heard shouting out the window

Im mad as hel_l and Im not gonna take it any more

[LoveDaBlues]

Okay; such moving poetry here I was inspired to write my own.

There was a flower child named Crane,

with a tiny pea for a brain.

She shot poor Dubie;

No this is not a move;

Her time in Thai jail won't be groovy!

there was a poster- Love da Blues-

whose "poetry" was mere abuse

whose doggerel did not amuse

even the most simple minded.

At least mine rhymes; work on that last line will ya?

Anybody have an update on her status?

last heard shouting out the window

Im mad as hel_l and Im not gonna take it any more

followed by, "You can't keep me here; don't you know I have to save the world!"

[Loaded]

I'm not a flaky hippy

I'm a shaky dippy's tool

If I'm dubie's girlfriend

I must be a bloody fool

[fruittbatt]

I'm not a flaky hippy

I'm a shaky dippy's tool

If I'm dubie's girlfriend

I must be a bloody fool

I'm not a raving ranter

But I love abuse and banter.

What's this shit called respect?

Man you don't expect

me to do like that?

I'm an ex-pat

get that.

I think that summarises the previous post ...

Edited September 6, 2006 by fruittbatt

[fruittbatt]

Calling all you budding poets...interested in forming a writing/poetry thread on Thai Visa? Or is there one already?

[fruittbatt]

Through out my effort to get a grip I've tried many different processes. Some of the people I encountered seemed to me to be stuck in the process and it became there identity. So you could say that I'm accutely sensitive to PC stuff. It has a language and fundamentilism of it's own.

Schooner,

i just want to address this one part of your post, because i think you are onto something important here that maybe I have missed.... you say people are "stuck in the process" of trying to get a grip... what you mean when you say that the process itself becomes something on which people build their identity? And what do you mean by "PC": that people say what they think is socially/politically acceptable rather than their true thoughts?

(yes i know it's a little OTT but it seems pretty relevant to the concerns of some of us posting here)

Edited September 6, 2006 by fruittbatt