The Thai Schooling system - just how bad is it?

[laolover88]

How to get educated despite school

I have a very good book on my desk at all times.

It is titled:

Damage Limitation:Trying to reduce the harm schools do to children

Author: Roland Meighan

Publisher: Educational Heretics Press

ISBN:1-900219-27-1

[Jasun]

if you do teach your kids in your home country they may not be able to come back here and live in the future. The reason I say this is because they will probably not be able to speak Thai.

There are plenty of people on this site, working and living successfully in Thailand who speak little or no Thai. I think social connections and nuances of the culture are the biggest things they would miss out on if educated outside of Thailand. But nothing that couldn't be overcome.

[Chicken George]

if you do teach your kids in your home country they may not be able to come back here and live in the future. The reason I say this is because they will probably not be able to speak Thai.

There are plenty of people on this site, working and living successfully in Thailand who speak little or no Thai. I think social connections and nuances of the culture are the biggest things they would miss out on if educated outside of Thailand. But nothing that couldn't be overcome.

Yes true but also it would or could be difficult to work here with a poor knowledge of the Thai language. . Schooled in say the UK for 10 years then even if they wanted to come back which they may not it would be difficult to fit in.. its just something that should be considered before deciding where to bring your children up.. Most important thing is that the parents are with the children as they grow up.. And we are talking about young adults starting out in a career late teens or early 20's.

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[mok199]

if you want to have a part in raising your kids you need ''good''communication'',that will end when they begin to speak and speak only in thai,i see to often foreign fathers with thier kids and all they do is grin at each other and the odd pinch.have your child learn your native language.if you want a deep lasting relationship with your children,communication is paramount,and i dont mean''hiew khow mai'',or ''pai nai''...the local teachers speak poor english""the thai style'' eg ''litin bit'',or ''pompem'' which is thai for problem...public is ok if you tutor them at home,but you must be agrresive about it,and want to have your child succeed,do not,trust the thai school system to teach your child..

[laolover88]

I have 2 simple issues:

Why can Thai people write and read English but cannot speak it?

Why can Chinese people speak English?

[brucetefl]

There are 60+ million people who will speak Thai to your kids in Thailand.

At home I spoke English with them exclusively.

All TV, movies and cartoons, English.

And all three of my kids are fluent in English.

if you want to have a part in raising your kids you need ''good''communication'',that will end when they begin to speak and speak only in thai,i see to often foreign fathers with thier kids and all they do is grin at each other and the odd pinch.have your child learn your native language.if you want a deep lasting relationship with your children,communication is paramount,and i dont mean''hiew khow mai'',or ''pai nai''...the local teachers speak poor english""the thai style'' eg ''litin bit'',or ''pompem'' which is thai for problem...public is ok if you tutor them at home,but you must be agrresive about it,and want to have your child succeed,do not,trust the thai school system to teach your child..

[duanebigsby]

I have 2 simple issues:

Why can Thai people write and read English but cannot speak it?

Why can Chinese people speak English?

The internet and a lot of games are in English. They can practice reading and writing it much easier, because they have easy access. Not all Thai students have access to English speakers on a regular basis. Plus the shyness factor.

You will notice many kids jump at the chance to say a few simple things in English to you. I always take the time to respond.

China has more aggressive English language training in the schools. And don't think for a minute every Chinese person speaks English.

[Deacon Bell]

China has more aggressive English language training in the schools. And don't think for a minute every Chinese person speaks English.

Yeah, I used to meet with a lot of Chinese Uni students while based there.

Them: Good afternoon Sir, I hope the day is treating you well. Would one like to accompany me to the theater upon this evening?

Me: eh what luv? speak English eh innit, I cannae understand whatcha cribbing aboot.

They need more native speakers.

I remember a year 1 student asking me for advice on a speech she had to give, the title: Unity and diversity in one.

I did what I would have done to a year 1 uni student in Thailand.

Given her a Doreamon keyring and Minnie Mouse badge.

[Bcgardener]

I think the type of education a parent aims for here should be influenced by future plans. My daughter will be 17 later this year and takes Thai as her language subject which I think is a good thing. However she does not plan to stay in Thailand after finishing high school so Thai becomes far less important than English. To look at another aspect of the language question, my Thai wife was reasonably fluent in English after living 12 years or so in Australia. She is losing her vocabulary now we are in Thailand as Thai has become more important. Hopefully when we go back home to Australia she will start to move back the other way.

[Morakot]

I cannae understand whatcha cribbing aboot.

Cracker!

[David48]

I cannae understand whatcha cribbing aboot.

Cracker!

Actually, I did practice that accent reading it.

I agree ...

[farangdude84]

There are two aspects - private education and that controlled by the Ministry of Education. Private education is up to the whim of the owners (do they care about education or just about making money?) "Education" from the government is about programming and teaching Thai children how to be "Thai," not how to be individuals who can think for themselves.

[isawasnake]

There are two aspects - private education and that controlled by the Ministry of Education. Private education is up to the whim of the owners (do they care about education or just about making money?) "Education" from the government is about programming and teaching Thai children how to be "Thai," not how to be individuals who can think for themselves.

The private schools, in reality, do just as much "teaching the children how to be Thai".

Honestly, the thinking for oneself and critical thought component of the private schools is meager percentage points better than the govt schools. I personally would blame this on the people running the Thai schools, the parents seem to be in agreement with you for the most part, they want their kids thinking. It just isn't happening yet imo. Maybe in another generation it will. Come to think of it, maybe in one more generation a lot of good changes are going to happen here with globalization and all.

[harrry]

China has more aggressive English language training in the schools. And don't think for a minute every Chinese person speaks English.

Yeah, I used to meet with a lot of Chinese Uni students while based there.

Them: Good afternoon Sir, I hope the day is treating you well. Would one like to accompany me to the theater upon this evening?

Me: eh what luv? speak English eh innit, I cannae understand whatcha cribbing aboot.

They need more native speakers.

I remember a year 1 student asking me for advice on a speech she had to give, the title: Unity and diversity in one.

I did what I would have done to a year 1 uni student in Thailand.

Given her a Doreamon keyring and Minnie Mouse badge.

And by doing so you missed out on a great opportunity for social intercourse.

[Aree Wongwanlee]

I have been living in Thailand for more than two decades already and planning to stay here for two decades more if I live that long. I have taught in Thai government schools and Thai private schools and am currently teaching in what is listed as the top school in South Thailand (fourth in the national rankings).

None of my children (only ten) have been educated in Thailand but if I were to have more children (I can always hope, can't I?) would I let them be educated in Thailand? Yes, I would.

Why?

Two main reasons. One, I want my children to grow up and be a part of Thailand and the easiest way, in my opinion, of doing this is to put them into the Thai education system. Then they will be equipped with all the tools needed to fit in. To get ahead, I will have to give them some extra help, just like any parent would. The other reason is that, despite all its shortcomings, the Thai education system, as far as I can make out, is designed to create a structured society. Students know exactly where they stand in relation to their teachers. Is this good? Yes, I do think so. Anyone who has respect and love for his teachers will have a headstart as far as learning from his teachers is concerned.

So are the Thai teachers good? Or as bad as some people seem to make them out to be?

Well, from my personal experience, Thai teachers (the ones I have met) still teach out of love for their students. They really do care. That, for me, is a very important ingredient in education. To care for and to love your students will make a lot of difference to how they learn from you. You may not be a world-class teacher but your sincerity and your devotion to your students will give them a stable foundation to build their knowledge upon. I am serious. Kids learn a lot better from people who care about them.

[zeichen]

"I have been living in Thailand for more than two decades already and planning to stay here for two decades more if I live that long. I have taught in Thai government schools and Thai private schools and am currently teaching in what is listed as the top school in South Thailand (fourth in the national rankings)."

Are you a licensed teacher in your own country? Do you have a Master's in Education? Do you have any specialized training in Inquiry based learning or the buzzword "student centered learning"?

Living here and working here doesn't actually mean that you know how to evaluate an educational system.

The other problem is the way that you were taught and the way school systems were 20 years ago will not prepare students today for the future.

If you know the word record as a large disk that plays music, a CD as a certificate for deposit. A phone is something that you dial, then you cannot relate to the world the future generation will have to face.

Thailand's system is 20 years behind the times and will not help students achieve the goals of the future. However that is not the purpose of Thai education.

Each country has its short comings so Thailand is no different. i personally don't have a problem having my child be educated here but I also realize that there are many things missing and things that parents need to do to ensure their children will compete in the future.

[brucetefl]

Many experts (John Holt is one of my heros) believe that its impossible for our schools to educate our children to their potential and often create an environment where learning is feared and hated.

So quit pontificating. All of the "but do you have 17 PhD's that allow you to teach conversational English?" crowd really bug me. Get over yourselves.

[duanebigsby]

Are you a licensed teacher in your own country? Do you have a Master's in Education? Do you have any specialized training in Inquiry based learning or the buzzword "student centered learning"?

Living here and working here doesn't actually mean that you know how to evaluate an educational system.

So we've raised the bar to Master's in Education?

wow! doom Thailand to never learning English.

TEFL and its' equivalents are recognized world over by developing nations in educating their people in English.

I view my job as trying to get kids excited about trying to carry on a simple conversation in English. Once they are hooked on wanting to learn the language they make leaps and bounds.

My job is talking to kids.

[David48]

Just to let you know, I am, the OP, still reading, with interest, all the replies.

Thanks ...

[duanebigsby]

david,

Sorry we've gone off topic. I still believe you could send your kids to a Thai school if you had the time after school to make sure they learned English, critical thought, creativity, etc. If you opt for International or English Immersion, you'll want to make sure their Thai language and culture learning is up to par. I'd hate to see a Thai who can't speak Thai.

[Deacon Bell]

We're lucky in Thailand in that we can hire qualified teachers to homeschool our children relatively cheaply. Hiring a Filipino with a B.Ed to teach full-time like Bruce did is a fantastic option.

I think the future of education, or what education should be is moving away from schools and into very small student groups in an area where they are free (their house for example).

If anyone gets going with a Homeschool group in Bangkok let me know. Hire one or two Filipino full-time, along with a homeschool curriculum, for perhaps 5 or 6 students. The cost would be cheap.

[David48]

david,

Sorry we've gone off topic. I still believe you could send your kids to a Thai school if you had the time after school to make sure they learned English, critical thought, creativity, etc. If you opt for International or English Immersion, you'll want to make sure their Thai language and culture learning is up to par. I'd hate to see a Thai who can't speak Thai.

Mate, I have so delighted with the replies.

Sure, now, there is some digression ... but this rates as an excellent thread and Thai Visa at it's best.

I warmly appreciate each and every resonse ... even those which could be considered as either negative or off-topic.

From each reply I can usually learn something ... more from some then others.

.

[zeichen]

David is very hard to upset. He is one of the greatest posters we have here. I am certain that his kids will be fine no matter where or what they study.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is an interesting topic and thread, so I was talking to my Thai wife about her public school education here tonight. She went to all Thai government schools before graduating from a government university about 15 years ago.

As best as I could tell from quizzing her, in her entire education, she claims to have never had a history or current affairs course about anything other than Thailand, and claims to have never been taught anything about any country other than Thailand. Nothing even about China, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc (though I gather that might be different today with ASEAN and AEC). And certainly not anything about Europe or the U.S., past or present (although they did have some English language instruction).

Likewise, she was telling me they did have classes in Thai dance, as a kind of PE program, where both males and females participated. And at least at her school, she said they also had a two-hour, once a week "cooking class" that apparently consisted of rotating groups of students cooking the food that other students would eat at school for their lunch break, and then cleaning the lunch food trays afterward.

And then, as we were going back on forth on those kinds of subjects, she suddenly asked me, "How did you learn to read maps? Did you have a course on that?" And I answered no... never had a course on maps (although I could have at university, if I had wanted to), but did learn about and read maps when studying history and world history. But I added, "What's so hard about reading a map?" It's just names and colored shapes of countries and places a big sheet of paper. But the notion of a map remains a mystery to my university graduate wife -- apparently along with many other Thais.

[duanebigsby]

David is very hard to upset. He is one of the greatest posters we have here. I am certain that his kids will be fine no matter where or what they study.

Probably the only point you and I will agree on!

LOL.

I do find the discussion interesting with so many viewpoints about Thai education.

[zeichen]

"Probably the only point you and I will agree on!"

Yeah I can sleep tonight that I have your unqualified approval.

[David48]

David is very hard to upset. He is one of the greatest posters we have here. I am certain that his kids will be fine no matter where or what they study.

Probably the only point you and I will agree on!

LOL.

I do find the discussion interesting with so many viewpoints about Thai education.

I don't have any likes left.

Your words are very kind.

Just my humble experience is that, with many members, you may disagree vehemently on a particular subject or forum ... but head to another subject or Forum and find yourselves walking in lock-step.

I have a good mate here ... we really disagree on something, agree totally on another.

Divided opinions shouldn't make you enemies.

If you want to meet us, and read something about Thai life ... a life that, as Teachers, you might not get to see ... drop by the Farming forum, this thread ... fish-and-shrimp-farm ... it's us before Kids.

[culicine]

People should also consider the option of them doing the iGSCE exams at around 16 yrs of age.

Many Chinese families pull their children out of Thai schools at age 14, spend 2 years studying for the iGSCE exams privately. Not that expensive and available through the British Council and others.

At 16 they sit the iGCSE exams, 5 passes allows them to enter university.

This is the same examinations that students do at International Schools here.

I think it is a very good option for students aged 14-16 or 15-17. Instead of being cooked up in a Thai school (even the good EP ones) with all the restrictive routine, they would study with like minded people at a private center with a loose daily time-table, allowing them free social time/study time or whatever. No uniforms and marching and being shouted at to sit still and be quiet for 9 hours a day. They study at an internation level (Cambridge) and have an international qualification instead of just the Thai M6 Cert.

The scariest part of this is that 5GCSE gets one into university.....

My neighbour asked me how many I did in my day, and then I explained the concept of A Levels.

Yes. This looks like a nice shortcut to university here. But one has to bear in mind that the general level of IGCSE is only around 10th grade. Additonal maths being one exception. So kids can enter university here at 16 years. I would have thought that they would be behind their peers who have studied for 12 years. This assumes everything else being equal, which may not be the case. You can bluff your way through IGCSE's - answers actually have to be written, and a good mark (I think a C - which is about 70%), needs to be obtained). I have one student doing IGCSE's externally in my EP. He does my work as well as study outside. This is not such a bad thing, as I cover the same topics in maths that he does. But after that, I don't see him coping as easily if he got to university having missed a big chunk of advanced maths/science he would need for science/engineering courses.

[duanebigsby]

"Probably the only point you and I will agree on!"

Yeah I can sleep tonight that I have your unqualified approval.

My post was very light hearted and I thought it was quite clear that I was being not so serious.

We are disagreeing on the level of education an English teacher should have and we won't come to consensus.

That's ok, and I was just poking fun at the idea that we won't agree.

I hope your response wasn't meant to be as snotty as it comes across.

[HooHaa]

my child went to the US and into grade one after attending an international kindergarten in bangkok and one year of bi lingual school.

She is reading at a grade 4-5 level and just finished the first harry potter novel. she is years ahead of her classmates in the US when it comes to reading.

the onus is on you as a parent to make it work. government schools arent going to cut it, but there are good alternatives.