Coming to the end of the visa run - local language schools may suffer most

[DogNo1]

Im not sure why Thailand has no visa and/or extension category for people under 50 who can support themselves adequately through foreign income or part-time work. What has Thailand got to lose by allowing people in this category year-long permissions to stay? Also, why is permanent residency so difficult to obtain? Finally, why are work permissions even necessary? If a person can meet the financial requirements, why not allow him/her to do any work at all? With a properly set required income level, low-skilled workers from other countries would not be elegible for permission to stay. I think that Thailand's visa system should be re-evaluated by responsible government officials properly advised by experts from other countries.

[AYJAYDEE]

Im not sure why Thailand has no visa and/or extension category for people under 50 who can support themselves adequately through foreign income or part-time work. What has Thailand got to lose by allowing people in this category year-long permissions to stay? Also, why is permanent residency so difficult to obtain? Finally, why are work permissions even necessary? If a person can meet the financial requirements, why not allow him/her to do any work at all? With a properly set required income level, low-skilled workers from other countries would not be elegible for permission to stay. I think that Thailand's visa system should be re-evaluated by responsible government officials properly advised by experts from other countries.

most other countries also have limits as to how long someone can stay in the country and whether they need permits to work.

[bronco10250]

Just wait when ASEAN/AEC starts... then the Thai gov and its so super MoE will wake up... but then its already to late, i guess... Im not in the teaching biz, but several years working legally here (never did any visa runs). Some time ago i stopped complaining about this country's incompetencies on all its levels concerned.. as its a waste of energy!
They will get their a$$es kicked very soon, and thats the way (hopefully) they will understand that xenophobia, nationalism and ultra-conservative traditionalistic views are outdated; actually since may 1945 :-) So lets relax guys... we are sitting on the longer branch, they will need the foreigners more than ever considering the status quo! - in dubio pro reo :-) Edited August 3, 2014 by bronco10250

[yellow1red1]

In small rural markets or big shopping malls where very few farang are ever seen, I have always been able to ask, kind of shout, "Does anybody here speak English!?" I have always come up with a friendly Thai to help me with my questions about shopping or events.

These folks were always way more more fluent than the Thai English teachers I have met.

It has puzzled me for years why they don't pool the Thais who are fluent in English for teaching!?

 

[peecee]

I am here from many years and I've spent a lot of money to do all the paperwork to stay here legally with a work permit, over 100k per year in taxes, fees, accounting, fly to KL every 3 months, then, they told me that they will not renew my work permit until I hire 4 Thai nationals, what a joke I work two hours a day, I certainly not have work for four thai people, in the meantime I bring about 150k of fresh money every month in the country. So technicaly there is no solution for me as I not really work in thailand, I just answer to the phone and write a few emails a day, I manage a company in Europa. I got my WP refused, I was cheated by my accountant not paying my taxes and not doing the job, I went to 5 different accountant to compare and 4 on 5 was no serious, constantly hiding fees or lying. Staying here legally is a nightmare. Alternatively Elitecard light is 500k upfront, but will I have the right to work here ?

 

The Thai's will lose out if they continue cracking the whip on ex-pats, I wonder if they know just how much we put into the villages and farms. Thai's really can't see the wood for the trees! Let's all leave and see how their economy does!

[AYJAYDEE]

 

I am here from many years and I've spent a lot of money to do all the paperwork to stay here legally with a work permit, over 100k per year in taxes, fees, accounting, fly to KL every 3 months, then, they told me that they will not renew my work permit until I hire 4 Thai nationals, what a joke I work two hours a day, I certainly not have work for four thai people, in the meantime I bring about 150k of fresh money every month in the country. So technicaly there is no solution for me as I not really work in thailand, I just answer to the phone and write a few emails a day, I manage a company in Europa. I got my WP refused, I was cheated by my accountant not paying my taxes and not doing the job, I went to 5 different accountant to compare and 4 on 5 was no serious, constantly hiding fees or lying. Staying here legally is a nightmare. Alternatively Elitecard light is 500k upfront, but will I have the right to work here ?

 

The Thai's will lose out if they continue cracking the whip on ex-pats, I wonder if they know just how much we put into the villages and farms. Thai's really can't see the wood for the trees! Let's all leave and see how their economy does!

 

the guys they are targeting dont put anywhere near as much into farms and villages as the guys with proper visas

[connda]

“The school says the cost [of obtaining a permit] is high and it will be an investment risk on their part to provide paperwork for us when there is such a high turnover of English-language teachers in Thailand.”

 

Other countries do it.  What makes Thailand so special? 

 

Minimum one year contract, train your admin staff to process work permits (I call B.S. on the 'investment risk statement'), incentivize repeat contracts by respecting the skill sets of qualified teachers and compensating them for their effort.  And individual NES expats with multiple years of teaching don't lose their ability as soon as they turn 60.  Age discrimination is a disgrace.

Yeah, it's time Thailand schools starts doing it the right and legal way.  This Op Ed get no sympathy from me.  Qualified teachers have been used and abused long enough.  So when the shoe is on the other foot, see how it feels. 

[BKKSnowBird]

The investment risk is the government will find out how much these agencies are really making.

[iamariva1957]

Though the article was informative and did sort of spell out the state of things with regards to the new immigration rules governing the good old (but now dead) Visa Run it did not do anything to really answer the concern that all of us already here in the Land Of Smiles or planning on coming back to from overseas. That concern is the continued ability of an individual immigration officer at a point of entry being able to decide by themselves if the tourist is for real or not.
 
Pol Col Voravat stated it himself in the article. The problem is that, as we all know in the past, there were rules that had to be followed but depending upon who the tourist talked to or even which immigration office that person visited the tourist could get varied responses. In short it all depended upon who one talked to and could even depended upon the officer's frame of mind at the time. I will not mention the Tea Money that could be exchanged. But the fact remains that though these new rules are to be in place and followed and Pol Col Voravat stresses that it will be a better system and makes it sound as if it will be a more consistent 'rule based' system, that one element of the individual officer having the power to deny or accept a tourist's entry into the Kingdom will continue to be the one major flaw in the works and will precipitate longer lines at entry points, more confusion, higher stress levels, and increased staffing for the immigration office personnel in order to handle the additional work loads that will come from tourists demanding to have their situation/s heard. 

 

I have no trouble accepting the new rules as they stand. But I do see that they can very easily lead to a sharp decline in the number of travelers who have no wish to live full time in the Kingdom but do want to spend as much time enjoying the country (which does require more than 30-days, even with one extension as the country is large and the way of life offers so much to those of us escaping the 'rat race' of our own countries of origin), not to mention spending our money... at Farang prices. The difficulty is that the power to make a decision (one way or another) still rests with the individual immigration officer at the point of entry. This is an issue that really has to be examined by Pol Col Voravat and his people and where definitive regulations and guidelines regarding those 'powers' have to be followed.
 
For it has to be remembered by the authorities that there are some of us that do not need to work, have not officially retired, but have been good investors in our own financial future and look at Thailand as a place which offers us what we are looking for in the way of a place to live and enjoy our lives. We may have the money invested say in Wall Street (or equivalent), off shore accounts, or in properties etc. It can be difficult to prove as documents can take longer to obtain from the firms representing our holdings and then might not even be accepted by the Thai authorities once presented. Then there are the folks that have the ability to afford not to work who do not want to apply for a visa that will allow them to stay or want to get the Elite Card that seems to be nothing more than a form of 'bribe'. Life is complicated at the best of times and though the rules of another counrty must be recognised and complied with it is in the best interest of certainly Thailand to make travel to its shores as easy and pain free as possible for certainly members of G7 countries as they have the larger financial holdings per individual. This just means that they have more money and the willingness to spend it in the Kingdom. It is just good business. 
  
But then again this is Thailand we are talking about and that sort of means, if history is any indicator at all, that only time will tell if any of these new rules are followed to the letter every day and every time one enters or leaves the country. For in the past we have all seen wrinkles that show up in how things actually work over how they are supposed to work.

[Absolute Zero]

Scary stuff . Where are all the sex offenders going to go now? 

 

I lived in Tland for several yrs and found the place to be boring as dog shit.  Looking at red faced farangs sitting at bars daily, mostly broke or on the verge of it. Being scammed by the love of there life again...lol. In fact, I meet more than one 67yr old plus, farang  crying over his 18yr thai girlfriend because she left him. what a joke.  So, concidering all the bulshit you have to put up with living in thailand what are the positives? Golf, Fishing, but fished out. For me there are far better countries to live in than Thailand due to the fact my life is structured around adventure and not trying to fulfill my ego by having a trophy on my arm and all the rest. 

 

Why live in a country where most Thai's don't even like you?

 

Expect shit from this post, however while typing your response, be honest with yourself.

[BKKSnowBird]

^ You just joined Thai Visa to say that? Lol. Maybe you better be honest with yourself.

[hawker9000]

OK then.  That takes care of the ED visas.  Next up:  retirees!  On deck:  family visas.  

 

New Thai Immigration motto:  The "proper" visa is NO visa!

New Thai Tourist Authority motto:    (sorry - I don't speak Chinese)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AYJAYDEE]

OK then.  That takes care of the ED visas.  Next up:  retirees!  On deck:  family visas.  

 

New Thai Immigration motto:  The "proper" visa is NO visa!

New Thai Tourist Authority motto:    (sorry - I don't speak Chinese)

 

 

 

 

 

 

that is utter nonsense

[AYJAYDEE]

Scary stuff . Where are all the sex offenders going to go now? 

 

I lived in Tland for several yrs and found the place to be boring as dog shit.  Looking at red faced farangs sitting at bars daily, mostly broke or on the verge of it. Being scammed by the love of there life again...lol. In fact, I meet more than one 67yr old plus, farang  crying over his 18yr thai girlfriend because she left him. what a joke.  So, concidering all the bulshit you have to put up with living in thailand what are the positives? Golf, Fishing, but fished out. For me there are far better countries to live in than Thailand due to the fact my life is structured around adventure and not trying to fulfill my ego by having a trophy on my arm and all the rest. 

 

Why live in a country where most Thai's don't even like you?

 

Expect shit from this post, however while typing your response, be honest with yourself.

your life is structured around adventure and you chose to live  where red faced farangs sat in bars??? and then have the nerve to complain you were bored?? lol

[JLCrab]

My definition of adventure: Three 18 year old girlfriends

[Absolute Zero]

 

Scary stuff . Where are all the sex offenders going to go now? 

 

I lived in Tland for several yrs and found the place to be boring as dog shit.  Looking at red faced farangs sitting at bars daily, mostly broke or on the verge of it. Being scammed by the love of there life again...lol. In fact, I meet more than one 67yr old plus, farang  crying over his 18yr thai girlfriend because she left him. what a joke.  So, concidering all the bulshit you have to put up with living in thailand what are the positives? Golf, Fishing, but fished out. For me there are far better countries to live in than Thailand due to the fact my life is structured around adventure and not trying to fulfill my ego by having a trophy on my arm and all the rest. 

 

Why live in a country where most Thai's don't even like you?

 

Expect shit from this post, however while typing your response, be honest with yourself.

your life is structured around adventure and you chose to live  where red faced farangs sat in bars??? and then have the nerve to complain you were bored?? lol

 

And all of the above gives me a valid reason to form the opinions I have.   And if I had not lived and travelled throughtout Thailand I could not have a valid opinion.

 

Wow, That post hit some nerves...lol  

 

@JL Crab, Atleast you are honest. Unlike others who won't admit it. Hope you enjoy your adventures.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Absolute Zero

[BKKSnowBird]

No hit nerves for me. Just dont understand why someone who lived in Thailand years ago and found it boring would join TV today and make that his 1st post.

Can we all say troll.

[AYJAYDEE]

 

 

Scary stuff . Where are all the sex offenders going to go now? 

 

I lived in Tland for several yrs and found the place to be boring as dog shit.  Looking at red faced farangs sitting at bars daily, mostly broke or on the verge of it. Being scammed by the love of there life again...lol. In fact, I meet more than one 67yr old plus, farang  crying over his 18yr thai girlfriend because she left him. what a joke.  So, concidering all the bulshit you have to put up with living in thailand what are the positives? Golf, Fishing, but fished out. For me there are far better countries to live in than Thailand due to the fact my life is structured around adventure and not trying to fulfill my ego by having a trophy on my arm and all the rest. 

 

Why live in a country where most Thai's don't even like you?

 

Expect shit from this post, however while typing your response, be honest with yourself.

your life is structured around adventure and you chose to live  where red faced farangs sat in bars??? and then have the nerve to complain you were bored?? lol

 

And all of the above gives me a valid reason to form the opinions I have.   And if I had not lived and travelled throughtout Thailand I could not have a valid opinion.

 

Wow, That post hit some nerves...lol  

 

@JL Crab, Atleast you are honest. Unlike others who won't admit it. Hope you enjoy your adventures.

 

if you were bored in thailand, you lack something. probably because you were drawn to the red-faced drunken farang scene

[AYJAYDEE]

 

 

Scary stuff . Where are all the sex offenders going to go now? 

 

I lived in Tland for several yrs and found the place to be boring as dog shit.  Looking at red faced farangs sitting at bars daily, mostly broke or on the verge of it. Being scammed by the love of there life again...lol. In fact, I meet more than one 67yr old plus, farang  crying over his 18yr thai girlfriend because she left him. what a joke.  So, concidering all the bulshit you have to put up with living in thailand what are the positives? Golf, Fishing, but fished out. For me there are far better countries to live in than Thailand due to the fact my life is structured around adventure and not trying to fulfill my ego by having a trophy on my arm and all the rest. 

 

Why live in a country where most Thai's don't even like you?

 

Expect shit from this post, however while typing your response, be honest with yourself.

your life is structured around adventure and you chose to live  where red faced farangs sat in bars??? and then have the nerve to complain you were bored?? lol

 

And all of the above gives me a valid reason to form the opinions I have.   And if I had not lived and travelled throughtout Thailand I could not have a valid opinion.

 

Wow, That post hit some nerves...lol  

 

@JL Crab, Atleast you are honest. Unlike others who won't admit it. Hope you enjoy your adventures.

 

the fact that that's your definition of adventure speaks volumes

[JLCrab]

One guy wrote on ThaiVisa  (while considering a teaching post) that he needs a reason to get up in the morning. I replied that for lots of guys, the reason to get up in the morning is that they ran out of beer and cigarettes the night before.

 

If you have a structured life and things to keep you and your mind busy, doesn't make much difference where you live as long as you are enjoying yourself.

 

BTW I do not consider myself to be particularly adventurous at least not anymore.

Edited August 3, 2014 by JLCrab

[gk10002000]

This is all probably true.  But "John" was lucky he was allowed in.  Not because of the visa crackdown but because he is and has been working illegally in Thailand without a Work Permit.  The fact one makes a lot of visa runs is not much of an issue.  But getting blacklisted or arrested for working without a Work Permit is another thing.

[Absolute Zero]

No hit nerves for me. Just dont understand why someone who lived in Thailand years ago and found it boring would join TV today and make that his 1st post.

Can we all say troll.

So what is your reason for living in Thailand? Positives and Negatives.  Or are one of those who try to co- exist on the pension living in Thailand.  And uses TV to vent your anguish? 

 

I don't get it. Most Thai's don't even like farangs apart from farang atm, or the gold shop, or the house you own , but not the land its on. 

 

Further more for a person making claims about my 1st post you do have serious issues as your post count is only 117...LMAO.

 

If i was ever part of the red face farang drinking scene I would never have the ability to recognise it.  Unlike you.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Absolute Zero

[gk10002000]

 

 

I also think that the native speaker requirement is given to much importance. Teaching ability and actual English fluency should be the key factors, not where someone was born.

Very few Thais are capable of evaluating whether a non native speaker is fluent in English. Most public schools in Thailand don't have anyone remotely qualified to do so. Most Thai English teachers speak English at a very basic level, many can not hold even a basic conversation, they have no way to assess the English ability of a foreigner.

 

I took my 4yo neice and her mother to a private Thai school and she introduced herself to her teacher in english. The Thai teacher asked her "who taught you" and she replied my uncle. I was later told by my sis-in-law they wanted to know if I wanted a job, I replied no I am retired now but I could see why they would want me  both the teacher and a Phillippine aid both spoke english badly both grammar and pronunciation. Guess I'll just have to keep teaching my neice at home because I don't think she is going to learn much there and this is a well known private school.

 

 

Yes.  It is hard to forget or remember how we learned our English.  I was born and raised in the US.  My grandparents came from Greece, but my parents were raised as a typical "Ozzie and Harriet".  Neither of my parents went to college but my mom did go to Katy Gibbs business school and 3 of my grandparents were well versed in English and assimilated into America completely.  Slang was never used in my house.  All my friends were good students. I was an avid reader.  I went to college and earned my BS in Engineering.  I was in the Air Force, separating as a captain.  I later went to Graduate school and earned my MS in Math.   Do I remember what a past participle is?  No.  The passive voice?  Not really.  Conjunctive clauses?  Barely remember the term.  But  I am sure I can teach basic english speaking and writing better than many of the PI teachers I have seen in Thailand. Some of it is just habit or good memory.  But I never speak with pronoun issues, tenses wrong, they or them incorrect, etc.

 

  I happened to sit next to an American girl last year on the mini-van as we made a Visa run to Poi Pet.  I was just extending my holiday an extra 30 days.  She was on  one of several Visa runs for "work".  She had some coursework and homework assignments she was correcting.  The Thai kids were smart, but what they were being taught was too technical.  They would quickly forget those low level details unless they were constantly using English or studying it. 

[BKKSnowBird]

No hit nerves for me. Just dont understand why someone who lived in Thailand years ago and found it boring would join TV today and make that his 1st post.

Can we all say troll.

So what is your reason for living in Thailand? Positives and Negatives.  Or are one of those who try to co- exist on the pension living in Thailand.  And uses TV to vent your anguish? 
 
I don't get it. Most Thai's don't even like farangs apart from farang atm, or the gold shop, or the house you own , but not the land its on. 
 
Further more for a person making claims about my 1st post you do have serious issues as your post count is only 117...LMAO

Wow. Some girl did you real bad, eh?

[jacko45k]

I would love to work here legally teaching English, but I'm on a retirement visa, and I am very aware of the numbers of illegal English teachers here. Given this crackdown, wouldn't it be a good idea to provide work permits to those of us on NON-IMM (ED or Retirement) visas, and perhaps also subsidise students who wish to learn. We could clear up the English language problems easily in a year and then Thailand would not be an embarrassment within the ASEAN/AEC. Or is that all too easy?

 

Yes, I wouldn't mind donating some of my time if there was some benefit, say a 5 year retirement extension without the need for reporting, my attendance at a designated school would validate my whereabouts. It wouldn't help out those in  need of a paying job as a teacher though would it?

Hard to be sympathetic when one has to go through quite a few hoops to get the correct visa for my stay in Thailand.
 

Edited August 3, 2014 by jacko45k

[Rooo]

Post containing flame removed.

[ericthai]

I know they are trying to crack down on people working here illegally, but why would Western people work here illegally? The average wage in Australia is around A$25-30 (750-900 baht) per hour, he said,

 
I know a good few EFL teachers that don't have degrees or WP's that earn more than that teaching privately.

So... they are working illegally and not paying taxes.. Seems to me this is the exact people they are after.

As for a shortage on teachers it will come down to the old supply / demand, less teachers should increase wages.
Also for the schools saying the cost to get work permit is expensive, that is crazy it's only 3000B. I'm sure they are paying more
than that to the companies that source teachers for them. It's just the schools don't want the hassle and most likely have
those teachers working off the books not paying taxes.

I have been lucky in which I pretty much had a work permit in all the years that I worked here. However I did engineering work and not
in education. All the places I worked for prior to opening my own company I never had an issue getting a work permit, even for just a 3-4 month
project.

To the one poster about having your own company and not getting your work permit renewed because you didn't have 4 Thai employees. Sorry but that is the requirement same as needing 2 million paid up registered capital. When I first started my company I used my maid as one employee, my girlfriend at the time as another along with her sister and our lawn guy. They employees just need to be on the books. You will need to pay SS for them and income taxes if any. I think SS was only 400B a month I know it was not much. About your accounting issues that can happen anywhere in the world. I would look to hire a part time account that works directly for you and then you have them do the monthly accounting report. Of course only you should have access to checks to pay any and all payments and make sure you know what a check being issued is for. This will keep things from happening. If you let an account have free access and expect then to do everything without any oversight things will happen, not only here in Thailand but anywhere in the world.

[tingtongtourist]

"Several schools said it would be possible to enrol in a 200-hour course and obtain a one-year visa without having to attend any classes at all."
 
 erm:   anyonoe wanna let us know WHICH SCHOOLS do such a service ??  hahaha
 
i'm sure it will be useful for some readers out there!

Maybe this comment is meant to be lighthearted,but it is this attitude that leads to these sorts of crackdowns. Any of the new generation ever heard of discretion??

hint: If your on a good thing-then shut up about it!!

[BudRight]

I never understand why so many people are so happy to see these articles... happy about them cracking down on visas... happy all the internet workers will be gone... happy all the "terrible non-degree" teachers will be gone... Why does it make you so happy? So many people marry a Thai bar girl, after they got a divorce and then they hate all farang... They hate that other farang are in "their" country... Get off your high horses.

 

sadist

A sadist is someone who enjoys inflicting pain on others, sometimes in a sexual sense. Sadists like seeing other people hurt. A sadist is the opposite of a masochist, who enjoys being in pain. A sadist is all about hurting others, usually to get off sexually.

[AYJAYDEE]

 

No hit nerves for me. Just dont understand why someone who lived in Thailand years ago and found it boring would join TV today and make that his 1st post.

Can we all say troll.

So what is your reason for living in Thailand? Positives and Negatives.  Or are one of those who try to co- exist on the pension living in Thailand.  And uses TV to vent your anguish? 

 

I don't get it. Most Thai's don't even like farangs apart from farang atm, or the gold shop, or the house you own , but not the land its on. 

 

Further more for a person making claims about my 1st post you do have serious issues as your post count is only 117...LMAO.

 

If i was ever part of the red face farang drinking scene I would never have the ability to recognise it.  Unlike you.

 

you dont know most thais