Thai police shooting at student's car 'can be construed as attempted murder'

[webfact]

POLICE
Shooting at student's car 'can be construed as attempted murder'
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- The action of three Bang Chan policemen who opened fire at a university student's car during a drug bust falls within the frame of attempted murder, Sunthorn Payak, the vice president of the Lawyers Council said yesterday.

Sunthorn was referring to the case in which Chulalongkorn University law student Apisada Sajjapanroj, 21, found her Suzuki Swift car being shot at last Saturday after her car was apparently mistaken for that of a drug suspect.

He said this reckless behaviour could have caused damage to life and property and hence should be taken to the Civil Court.

He said the case could also be filed at the Administrative Court over state officials' violation of a "damaged" person's rights.

He said if Apisada thought she was affected and if the remedial measures were not enough, she could seek legal help from the council to proceed with criminal, civil and administrative lawsuits.

Meanwhile, Metropolitan Police Bureau deputy chief Itthipol Piriyapinyo, who led the disciplinary probe against the three police, confirmed that he would ensure justice to all, adding that it would take the team seven days to gather evidence and interview the officers, the victim and witnesses.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Shooting-at-students-car-can-be-construed-as-attem-30240236.html

[thenation]2014-08-05[/thenation]

[ukrules]

Some kind of rules of engagement would come in useful here.

 

For example, if as a police officer you don't see a gun and are not threatened or fired upon then you shouldn't just randomly fire in the suspects general direction and hope for the best.

[zaphod reborn]

There's a lot of confusion over whether the reckless police officers can even be criminally charged. Isn't it time the Thai Constitution provided a cause of action for violation of civil rights? Of course, that would also create a cause of action where a police officer extorts a citizen for a bribe, and we couldn't have that, could we? Edited August 4, 2014 by zaphod reborn

[siampolee]

Does not this farcical action clearly demonstrate the low standards required and accepted (or even needed) to be a member of the police farce force here in Thailand?

 

Certainly to many people it must raise questions as to what sort of mental ability and stability profile assessment tests (if any) are conducted on the applicants for a police officers  position. No doubt the ability to count commission money is a prime  assessment though

 

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would I am sure not have opened fire on a ''defenseless unarmed  un manned motor vehicle.'' 

 

Oh I forgot ''This is Police Farce Force Thailand.''

[NongKhaiKid]

Yesterday the other newspaper carried this story and quoted the Deputy National Police Chief on the matter.

 

Three police officers were photographed by the media and it was said four were involved but the fourth was not named !!

It was also said the officers did not identify themselves when they first surrounded the car and only did so when the driver crashed when the tyres were shot out. They identified themselves,  searched the car and having found nothing left the scene as the driver's relatives arrived in response to her phone call for help.

 

Remember these officers are not rookies,  One is a Sub-Lt and the other two are acting in that rank but hold the substantive rank of Snr. Sgt. Major. 

 

This new headline says the officers' actions can be construed as attempted murder but in LoS " can ' and ' will ' are often worlds apart.

Questions too about the supposed fourth person,  was he really a cop and why is identity being withheld ?

[BudRight]

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

[scorecard]

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Does not this farcical action clearly demonstrate the low standards required and accepted (or even needed) to be a member of the police farce force here in Thailand?

 

Certainly to many people it must raise questions as to what sort of mental ability and stability profile assessment tests (if any) are conducted on the applicants for a police officers  position. No doubt the ability to count commission money is a prime  assessment though

 

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would I am sure not have opened fire on a ''defenseless unarmed  un manned motor vehicle.'' 

 

Oh I forgot ''This is Police Farce Force Thailand.''

 

Agree, and it reminds of the very rigged entrances tests, organized by police / ex police.

 

I wonder what's happening with the last case where numerous police / ex police were identified as running this scam? 

 

And another point, in this case it seems the family is not low-income low class. That begs the question, how many hundreds / thousands of times has something like this happened in the past to low socio / economic folks who had no chance of any attention by the press (that's just one interesting point) and after the event just ignored with no redress and no compensation for damage to property?

 

In this case, not low socio / economic, very quickly Gen Ponsapat is on screen with lots of apologies and promising to buy the young lady a new car (with taxpayers funds). Seems that his attitudes / reactions need some revision, or to be more direct, Thailand is going through lots of upgrades in professionalism and more. Does the 'new' Thai police force need / want people with these attitudes? 

Edited August 5, 2014 by scorecard

[jerrybuice]

Police just need to claim it was a case of terrorism and that investigating it would be a matter of National Security and the cops will skate....oh sorry, I thought this was America....never mind.

[JacChang]

Add bribery to the books.

Police paid a new car to someone for personal gains.

 

Oh wait... doesn't that usually happen the opposite way?

[Seastallion]

I seriously doubt that it will be construed as attempted murder. That would require a conscious decision to try to kill. That shots were fired to stop the car, that the car was the wrong car, etc, are all criminally negligent or contravening police and criminal codes, real dumb, but not attempted murder.

 

Rich law student, VP of Lawyer's Council.......I bet Dad is a friend of VP. Make an outrageous claim, and settle for less, which would be more than if it had been an unconnected engineering student.

[Rorri]

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

[quidnunc]

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

While they may not be given a medal, they are rarely punished either legally or administratively. Swat teams are out of control in the USA and are being routinely used where it's not necessary. 

[hanuman2543]

If the Lawyer Council in this case is as helpful as they are with the 2 cases I have with them, be prepared for a long wait, a blabla outcome and no enforcement of whatever is agreed upon.

Edited August 5, 2014 by hanuman2543

[fxe1200]

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

 

...he forgot to mention, that the victim must be dead, and drugs placed in the car afterwards.

[Rorri]

quidnunc, on 05 Aug 2014 - 10:05, said:quidnunc, on 05 Aug 2014 - 10:05, said:quidnunc, on 05 Aug 2014 - 10:05, said:

 

Rorri, on 05 Aug 2014 - 09:57, said:Rorri, on 05 Aug 2014 - 09:57, said:Rorri, on 05 Aug 2014 - 09:57, said:

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

While they may not be given a medal, they are rarely punished either legally or administratively. Swat teams are out of control in the USA and are being routinely used where it's not necessary. 

 

I do not know what you say is true or not, what I do know is that there have been numerous instances where, if the police miss-use their powers they have been dismissed, charged, fined and/or jailed. I find your comment, "Swat teams are out of control" a bit far fetched.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Rorri

[Rorri]

fxe1200, on 05 Aug 2014 - 10:10, said:

 

Rorri, on 05 Aug 2014 - 09:57, said:

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

 

...he forgot to mention, that the victim must be dead, and drugs placed in the car afterwards.

 

You could replace "US" with any other country and make the same outlandish comment.... but words without evidence, or reference to facts, are just words. Anyway, why discuss other countries when the OP is about these Thai coppers, who lucky didn't injure/kill an innocent person and who, according to BudRight, should get a medal. Go figure the thinking behind his comment.

[BudRight]

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

 

Here's a two year that was nearly killed by a police grenade in Atlanta after cops threw the grenade in the child's crib.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toddler-injured-swat-team-flash-bang-grenade-headed-home-article-1.1850982

 

According the article, "no one has been faulted in the incident." It's not a medal, but it's not exactly reprimand.

 

Pretty ridiculous isn't it?

 

Anyway, to tie this back to the OP, I hope Thailand does a better job of punishing renegade, murdering cops than the US does.

Edited August 5, 2014 by BudRight

[Rorri]

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 10:18, said:

 

Rorri, on 05 Aug 2014 - 09:57, said:

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

 

Here's a two year that was nearly killed by a police grenade in Atlanta after cops threw the grenade in the child's crib.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toddler-injured-swat-team-flash-bang-grenade-headed-home-article-1.1850982

 

According the article, "no one has been faulted in the incident." It's not a medal, but it's not exactly reprimand.

 

Pretty ridiculous isn't it?

 

Anyway, to tie this back to the OP, I hope Thailand does a better job of punishing renegade, murdering cops than the US does.

 

Well, they track record isn't that good... about 2 years ago two copper, from a northern province, where charged, found guilty and sentence either to life or the death penalty, but in "typical" fashion were then granted bail and we haven't seen or heard of then since. As for the article you linked to, to be fair it was an accident and one off accident isn't enough to make encompassing comments about all US swat/police teams.

[apetley]

Reminds me of an incident here in the village about 18 months ago.
Guy drove into his driveway and about 8 cops jumped out of hiding and started firing at him inside the car.
Somehow every shot missed their intended target and he reversed out and drove away.
Bullet holes were found in the wall of the school next door, thankfully nobody there was hit either.

[atsiii]

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

 

No.  In the USA, the dirty cops would have planted drugs in the car when they searched it.

[fxe1200]

 

fxe1200, on 05 Aug 2014 - 10:10, said:

 

Rorri, on 05 Aug 2014 - 09:57, said:

 

BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:BudRight, on 05 Aug 2014 - 07:58, said:

For once Thailand looks good. In the US they'd have given the cop a medal.

I fail to see why such foolish comments, like this, are allowed. Can you provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous comment.

 

 

...he forgot to mention, that the victim must be dead, and drugs placed in the car afterwards.

 

You could replace "US" with any other country and make the same outlandish comment.... but words without evidence, or reference to facts, are just words. Anyway, why discuss other countries when the OP is about these Thai coppers, who lucky didn't injure/kill an innocent person and who, according to BudRight, should get a medal. Go figure the thinking behind his comment.

 

 

I am sorry, that you did not catch the meaning of my comment. I wrote: "..he forgot to mention", and not: "I forget to mention", opining, to refrain from such stupid comments in a dry sarcasm way.

 

[Tchooptip]

Does not this farcical action clearly demonstrate the low standards required and accepted (or even needed) to be a member of the police farce force here in Thailand?

 

Certainly to many people it must raise questions as to what sort of mental ability and stability profile assessment tests (if any) are conducted on the applicants for a police officers  position. No doubt the ability to count commission money is a prime  assessment though

 

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would I am sure not have opened fire on a ''defenseless unarmed  un manned motor vehicle.'' 

 

Oh I forgot ''This is Police Farce Force Thailand.''

Saying that I guess you are no US citizen

[siampolee]

Thai police shooting at student's car 'can be construed as attempted murder'

 

 

Isn't this topic  about the Thai Police farce force  as opposed to the American police farces forces?

 

We do seem to be seeing  a number of colonials arguing and ''swatting'' each other over the assorted merits or de -merits regarding their respective police farces forces.

[siampolee]

Tchooptip post # 24.

 

 Saying that I guess you are no US citizen

 

 

Indeed I am grateful I have been spared that dubious accolade Tchooptip. 

[Tingtau]

I seriously doubt that it will be construed as attempted murder. That would require a conscious decision to try to kill. That shots were fired to stop the car, that the car was the wrong car, etc, are all criminally negligent or contravening police and criminal codes, real dumb, but not attempted murder.

 

Rich law student, VP of Lawyer's Council.......I bet Dad is a friend of VP. Make an outrageous claim, and settle for less, which would be more than if it had been an unconnected engineering student.

 

I would agree re any "attempted murder" charge were we in, say the UK, US or Canada.  There, it is spelled out clearly that an INTENT to kill must be proven, that "merely committing an action that a reasonable person might expect death to result" is not sufficient for a conviction for murder or attempt murder to result.  Here in Thailand, though, I am not certain.  While unable to find any reference to a specific requirement for "attempt murder",  I did find that one can be convicted of "murder" even though the death was unintended ... See Section 290 and 291 of theThailand Criminal Code as amended 2003:  http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-penal-code.html#287. Does it follow, then, that an "attempt murder" could be argued in the circumstances of this case.  Well, of course, while it might be speculated as so, we weren't there.  All we know at this point is that the tires of what turned out to be the wrong car were shot out!!  What is quite possible though, from reading the followng taken verbatim from the Thailand Criminal Code (bold print and underlining added by this poster) is that one can be convicted of injury (to body or mind) with no stated requirement that "intent" to do so be provent:

OFFENCE AGAINST BODY

Section 295 Whoever, causes injury to the other person in body or mind is said to commit bodily harm, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or fined not exceeding four thousand Baht, or both.    

(Notice also that there is no measurement given as to what degree of injury is required)

 

Does the above mean that if any/all of the occupants can successfully show that this incident has caused them mental anguish, then a conviction for an Offence against Body under this section can be registered?  Dunno!!  I suspectl that many people will "jump the gun" and make all kinds of judgement calls...without knowing all of the facts.  I wasn't there so haven't a clue whether or not the police actions were justified.  What I do know is that if I were the police officers involved, I would surely be wishing that this had been the right car!!  And I would certainly know that I have some 'splainin' to do.  .A lot of explaining if any/all of the occupants are, shall we say, well connected in Thai society!  I wonder if we will hear any more about this.  I won't hold my breath.

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Tingtau

[Oziex1]

I Believe they have been instructed to enforce the law, however without any experience they just don't know how.

[Thai at Heart]

Attempted murder is a civil offence? Huh?

[RisingSun]

I seriously doubt that it will be construed as attempted murder. That would require a conscious decision to try to kill. That shots were fired to stop the car, that the car was the wrong car, etc, are all criminally negligent or contravening police and criminal codes, real dumb, but not attempted murder.

 

Rich law student, VP of Lawyer's Council.......I bet Dad is a friend of VP. Make an outrageous claim, and settle for less, which would be more than if it had been an unconnected engineering student.

 

Any gun shot not directed up to the sky is an attempted murder. If not to the target, could be to the unsuspecting onlookers. That is why you could hear that a straying bullet killed someone.

[khunken]

Personally speaking, I don't care if they are charged with attempted murder or a lesser charge such as reckless endangerment, as long as these numnuts are actually prosecuted and face a court trial - and not allowed to get off with payment of a fine or compensation.

[BSJ]

Ok, I am confused about the incident as described.  Were the police in plain clothes or where they in uniform?