Australian parents reveal their side of the surrogate baby story: Thailand

[bijankoch]

Gentlemen,

Somebody should help this Australian couple make the right move. It's no use to come out with new stories or denying what they have done or even accusing the Thai mother of something. The Aussie couple should apologize for what they have done and ask for forgiveness. This way they show the world that they have learned from their crazy mistake. The boy must stay with the thai mother anyway. They should visit him in Thailand from time to time and ask the God to forgive them.

[Thai at Heart]

Gentlemen,

Somebody should help this Australian couple make the right move. It's no use to come out with new stories or denying what they have done or even accusing the Thai mother of something. The Aussie couple should apologize for what they have done and ask for forgiveness. This way they show the world that they have learned from their crazy mistake. The boy must stay with the thai mother anyway. They should visit him in Thailand from time to time and ask the God to forgive them.

At the moment there is no conclusive proof that these people even knew that there was a second child, or if they did that they weren't told the child was going to die.

Where is the agent?

[DeepInTheForest]

My money would be on the Australian folks as telling the truth. Sorry to say but Thai people have become the most notorious liars and greediest in the world. Lying is a way of Thai culture. They lie to save face. Period. They will say anything to make themselves look good. Thailand is quickly becoming a cesspool for liars, cheats and rip-offs. That is sad because Thailand is such a beautiful country.

How you can post this, after the revelations about the Australian husband, is beyond me.

[FM505]

The twins ought to be together... in a loving, protective environment.

[noddy77]

The media are as much to blame for this terribly sad story as the people involved.

Hopefully soon we may hear the truth but for now all I hear is theory and peoples opinions based on such.

I am also sure the events that have unfolded have all happened before. I doubt this is a first.

I also feel sorry for any Parents who cannot have children naturally that are going through this process or thinking about it.

This story may be life changing for many, many couples.

[simple1]

Is it not bizarre that commercial surrogacy is banned within Australia, but Australians, dependent on the State they live in, can travel to places such as Thailand, for commercial surrogacy services.; self serving hypocrisy. Oz citizens can then apply for citizenship by descent for the child born in Thailand. Except for one State, Victoria, there are not any criminal records checks for surrogacy parents.

The Thai birth mother is now being exposed to the possability of criminal charges for accepting payment for surrogacy services, even though it's currently a well establshed practice in Thailand.

Agencies and health clinics openly engage in locating surrogate mothers and egg donors. "Thailand's Medical Council has taken a cautious approach to the practices of IVF implantation, egg donation, and surrogacy; these practices are still in a legal and medical 'grey area'," the firm said. Investigations are now under way by Thailand's Bureau of Sanatorium and Art in Healing under the Department of Health Service Support (HSS) into the surrogacy service clinics.

There are reported to be an estimated 20 surrogacy agencies, most said to be foreign owned drawing in an estimated 4.0 billion baht ($A133 million) annually.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gammys-surrogate-mother-may-face-thai-charges-20140805-100tvq.html

Edited August 5, 2014 by simple1

[simple1]

Gentlemen,

Somebody should help this Australian couple make the right move. It's no use to come out with new stories or denying what they have done or even accusing the Thai mother of something. The Aussie couple should apologize for what they have done and ask for forgiveness. This way they show the world that they have learned from their crazy mistake. The boy must stay with the thai mother anyway. They should visit him in Thailand from time to time and ask the God to forgive them.

At the moment there is no conclusive proof that these people even knew that there was a second child, or if they did that they weren't told the child was going to die.

Where is the agent?

parents have now admitted they knew of second child. The guy's wife is now saying she wishes to 'return' the child in Oz to Thailand - just vile people

[chooka]

If they charge Gammy's mum with human trafficking then the Australians should be extradited and face exactly the same charges.

Gammy's birth mum facing trafficking charges

Thai authorities are considering whether to charge Gammy's birth mother because the payments she received as a surrogate contravened Thailand's human trafficking laws.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/06/04/42/gammy-mum-facing-trafficking-charges#MTls28GRkgFyigzM.99

Edited August 5, 2014 by chooka

[chooka]

The man is a convicted and serial paedophile. He should not be allowed to adopt or have a surrogate child. Full stop.

No argument from me. 100% agree the child should be in the care if the Dept Human Svc's now.

The child will be in care soon,but then what,legal minefield.

Just heard on Melbourne radio news that the Dept of Child Protection (DCP) turned up at the paedophiles home at 10 p.m last night with a warrant to take the baby girl but the paedophile and his wife have already fled. The DCP acted on a request of W.A police after they confirmed his criminal history as a career paedophile.

[simple1]

If they charge Gammy's mum with human trafficking then the Australians should be extradited and face exactly the same charges.

Gammy's birth mum facing trafficking charges

Thai authorities are considering whether to charge Gammy's birth mother because the payments she received as a surrogate contravened Thailand's human trafficking laws.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/06/04/42/gammy-mum-facing-trafficking-charges#MTls28GRkgFyigzM.99

Hour by hour this matter becomes more absurd. Immigration must have legal advise on Thai laws, yet Oz Immi issues citizenship by descent for babies of Oz citizens who have entered commercial surrogacy arrangements in Thailand. Commercial surrogacy clinics in Thailand encourage foreigners to use their services, smells of an attempt to shut the mouth of the Thai birth mother or you could say "save face"

[Bender]

My money would be on the Australian folks as telling the truth. Sorry to say but Thai people have become the most notorious liars and greediest in the world. Lying is a way of Thai culture. They lie to save face. Period. They will say anything to make themselves look good. Thailand is quickly becoming a cesspool for liars, cheats and rip-offs. That is sad because Thailand is such a beautiful country.

How you can post this, after the revelations about the Australian husband, is beyond me.

all this sickening story, is just business between monster... i mean thai monster and australian monster. you give me baby i give you money. Just monster!

sickening!

[godden]

this story is like a can of worms being opened, got to keep an open mind until the truth is known

[harrycallahan]

Sex offenders are usually permitted to have children simply because nature allows it. But in this case surrogate used and, I believe, birth papers falsely filled out (not sure how, maybe said father knocked up thai mother i.e. no ivf).

So whose children did they belong to at first? I would think Thai mother. Without special laws surrogacy requires babies to be adopted out to new parents.

But convicted sex offender unlikely to be permitted to adopt. But baby is his, biologically.

[johna]

A cardiologist at Samitivej Sriracha Hospital has confirmed that baby Gammy has a healthy heart and not a congenital heart condition as first reported.

So the mother Ms Pattharamon has a lot of questions to answer here, the first reports saying Gammy was at deaths door etc, need clearing up, Gammy had pneumonia, which doctors say is quite normal for children of that age.

Australians have now donated ฿ 6 million for this child's medical problems.

[Johnniey]

The first humane thing is to give Gammy a proper name.

[samran]

A cardiologist at Samitivej Sriracha Hospital has confirmed that baby Gammy has a healthy heart and not a congenital heart condition as first reported.

So the mother Ms Pattharamon has a lot of questions to answer here, the first reports saying Gammy was at deaths door etc, need clearing up, Gammy had pneumonia, which doctors say is quite normal for children of that age.

Australians have now donated ฿ 6 million for this child's medical problems.

Big whoop. The baby has downs and will require special needs support for the rest of his life. It doesn't come cheap whatever way you look at it. She'll be caring for him even when he's an adult.

The fund will be administered externally.

But don't let any of that that get it the way of your barely concealed hatred of the mother.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[chooka]

A cardiologist at Samitivej Sriracha Hospital has confirmed that baby Gammy has a healthy heart and not a congenital heart condition as first reported.

So the mother Ms Pattharamon has a lot of questions to answer here, the first reports saying Gammy was at deaths door etc, need clearing up, Gammy had pneumonia, which doctors say is quite normal for children of that age.

Australians have now donated ฿ 6 million for this child's medical problems.

I have been searching the net and can find 100's of stories that state he has a hole in the heart but not a single story saying he has a healthy heart. I would really like to read that story if you could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[simple1]

A cardiologist at Samitivej Sriracha Hospital has confirmed that baby Gammy has a healthy heart and not a congenital heart condition as first reported.

So the mother Ms Pattharamon has a lot of questions to answer here, the first reports saying Gammy was at deaths door etc, need clearing up, Gammy had pneumonia, which doctors say is quite normal for children of that age.

Australians have now donated ฿ 6 million for this child's medical problems.

I have been searching the net and can find 100's of stories that state he has a hole in the heart but not a single story saying he has a healthy heart. I would really like to read that story if you could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Thanks

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/thai-hospital-says-baby-gammy-has-no-life-threatening-heart-disease-

Don't know why someone thinks it's only Australians donating, its a global story

[Yme]

The Aussie couple wouldn't stick around for the boy's funeral if he died? Make a bee-line for the border being scared of the political situation? And switching hospitals voided the surrogacy contract? And asking for an abortion of one twin is very dangerous and one must wonder which Thai hospital would do such a procedure? Very questionable case.

Abortion is `100% illegal in Thailand, besides the mothers Buddhist conviction against it.

It would have been a back room procedure in a dodgy clinic at best.

Total crap. Abortion is NOT illegal in Thailand, it is regulated.

The Population and Community Development Association (PDA) and the Planned Parenthood Association Of Thailand Under The Patronage Of HRH The Princess Mother both provide high quality, low cost LEGAL abortion provided the requirements are met.

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Gentlemen,
Somebody should help this Australian couple make the right move. It's no use to come out with new stories or denying what they have done or even accusing the Thai mother of something. The Aussie couple should apologize for what they have done and ask for forgiveness. This way they show the world that they have learned from their crazy mistake. The boy must stay with the thai mother anyway. They should visit him in Thailand from time to time and ask the God to forgive them.

At the moment there is no conclusive proof that these people even knew that there was a second child, or if they did that they weren't told the child was going to die.

Where is the agent?

Well apart from the Australian 'parents' admitting that they knew there was a second child and that they have stated they were told the child was going to die then you are correct, there is no conclusive proof

[animatic]

The Aussie couple wouldn't stick around for the boy's funeral if he died? Make a bee-line for the border being scared of the political situation? And switching hospitals voided the surrogacy contract? And asking for an abortion of one twin is very dangerous and one must wonder which Thai hospital would do such a procedure? Very questionable case.

Abortion is `100% illegal in Thailand, besides the mothers Buddhist conviction against it.

It would have been a back room procedure in a dodgy clinic at best.

No abortion is allowed for under "Article 305 of Thai Penal Code", but not in this situation.

OK, fair play. Call it 98 % illegal.

Article 305 of Thai Penal Code states that abortion is illegal except in cases when it is committed by a medical practitioner and is considered only as necessary if the same endangers the health of the mother or when the pregnancy is due to sexual offenses such as rape and incest.

[Thai at Heart]

The Aussie couple wouldn't stick around for the boy's funeral if he died? Make a bee-line for the border being scared of the political situation? And switching hospitals voided the surrogacy contract? And asking for an abortion of one twin is very dangerous and one must wonder which Thai hospital would do such a procedure? Very questionable case.

Abortion is `100% illegal in Thailand, besides the mothers Buddhist conviction against it.

It would have been a back room procedure in a dodgy clinic at best.

No abortion is allowed for under "Article 305 of Thai Penal Code", but not in this situation.

OK, fair play. Call it 98 % illegal.

Article 305 of Thai Penal Code states that abortion is illegal except in cases when it is committed by a medical practitioner and is considered only as necessary if the same endangers the health of the mother or when the pregnancy is due to sexual offenses such as rape and incest.

The horrendous thing is, the law about abortion and surrogacy is bent daily in Thailand for any number of reasons, one of which is cash.

Wouldn't it be better for Thais to amend the law to reflect Thai view of these issues than just allowing them to be subverted for cash?

Or is that just too hard?

[pedro01]

If they charge Gammy's mum with human trafficking then the Australians should be extradited and face exactly the same charges.

Gammy's birth mum facing trafficking charges

Thai authorities are considering whether to charge Gammy's birth mother because the payments she received as a surrogate contravened Thailand's human trafficking laws.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/06/04/42/gammy-mum-facing-trafficking-charges#MTls28GRkgFyigzM.99

Good news, although I hope they go after the people that facilitated this.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ggold]

Hard to tell who's telling the truth, but by the media attempts from the Thai lady, my money is on the Aussie couple.

The Thai is just in for it for the fame and the money (how creepy)

My money is on The Thai Lady! It seems the main problem for the Aussie couple was the military coup.

Mr and Mrs Farnell spent two months in Thailand and extended their visas but due to military unrest said they had no option but to leave without Gammy.

Seems a weak excuse to me. Not as if The Military have been on every street corner, causing problems for people!

[samran]

Hard to tell who's telling the truth, but by the media attempts from the Thai lady, my money is on the Aussie couple.

The Thai is just in for it for the fame and the money (how creepy)

My money is on The Thai Lady! It seems the main problem for the Aussie couple was the military coup.

Mr and Mrs Farnell spent two months in Thailand and extended their visas but due to military unrest said they had no option but to leave without Gammy.

Seems a weak excuse to me. Not as if The Military have been on every street corner, causing problems for people!

Small problems with dates.

Gammy was born in December. Coup didn't happen till may.

These guys are liars. Bad ones at that.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[chooka]

If they charge Gammy's mum with human trafficking then the Australians should be extradited and face exactly the same charges.

Gammy's birth mum facing trafficking charges

Thai authorities are considering whether to charge Gammy's birth mother because the payments she received as a surrogate contravened Thailand's human trafficking laws.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/06/04/42/gammy-mum-facing-trafficking-charges#MTls28GRkgFyigzM.99

Good news, although I hope they go after the people that facilitated this.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Which includes the paedophile from Australia.

If they do charge the Thai lady there will be a few hundred other thai ladies who will be digging burrows to hide. A lot of foreigners won't be getting their children and the future faces of the poor rice farmers will be changing. They will 6ft tall, blonde haired, blue eyed with white skin. They think Luk Krung kids are 2nd class citizens in the small villages and public thai schools, your blonde haired blue eyed will be 3rd class.

[adamtwilley]

Can't name him? Why not? Sure you can.

All the anonymity, corporations and goverments are concealing facts. How are we supposed to verify it?

Thailand is supposed to be improving their image. This does nothing but hurt it. Children worldwide are the responsibility of everyone. How they deal with this will be far more influential than any advert they put on tv.

Basic facts, thai government are allowing an Australian pedo to have custody of a minor, and using their medical services to inseminate a surrogate mother. The agent (not socail worker) is unavailable as is the clinic, this is a failure in law enforcement wether intentional or not.

The only way the Thai government can resolve the issue internationally is through clarity and refusal to protect the people involved. I am sure the international powers are far more than they are. The Australian government will not allow it, this I am sure of. They have all the evidence they need to safeguard the child. I am thinking the media intially has made them seek legal advice. Due to the attention they wont want to get it wrong. This is why they didn't want the media coverage imho.

The children come first, resolve placement and then seek legal criminal charges against them both Australian and Thai. I am sure part of his release from prison was a contract for no contact with children. This would be a good place to start.

[simple1]

I would bet that the Thai birth mother will not be charged under human trafficking laws. If you think about it, by extention, they are saying Oz government is complicit in human trafficking by granting citizenship for the children of commercial surrogacy arrangements. Don't believe such arrangement would be covered under human trafficking law; however being Thailand....

[Thai at Heart]

I would bet that the Thai birth mother will not be charged under human trafficking laws. If you think about it, by extention, they are saying Oz government is complicit in human trafficking by granting citizenship for the children of commercial surrogacy arrangements. Don't believe such arrangement would be covered under human trafficking law; however being Thailand....

The mother has probably unwittingly broken surrogacy laws. I would think that the agent/agency should be charged with people trafficking. How on earth the Australians can allow unlegalised surrogate children to be legally adopted god knows. Maybe they are registering that the children are adopted?

At the end of it all, it is the Thai's responsibility to police what goes on inside Thailand, and as we see, a "mai bpen arai" attitiude to supposedly vicitimless breaking of the law until everyone seriously "bpen haa". Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand and people were facilitating it with complicit assistance from authorities and hospitals. Heads should roll. Thank god this story came to be known, and it will hopefully give Thailand a little pause for thought about how it polices moral issues.

Oooooops. TIT....

[chooka]

I would bet that the Thai birth mother will not be charged under human trafficking laws. If you think about it, by extention, they are saying Oz government is complicit in human trafficking by granting citizenship for the children of commercial surrogacy arrangements. Don't believe such arrangement would be covered under human trafficking law; however being Thailand....

Yes. You make a very good and valid point. The Australian government by granting citizenship is definitely involved and supporting human trafficking. Should the Australian P.M and Minister for immigration also be held accountable?

Edited August 6, 2014 by chooka