Immigration Experience 6th August

[Konini]

My brain is currently addled on pain killers and I can't find any links to the things I've read. One that really sticks out in my mind was the case of a Bangkok socialite who had a very caring bank manager who took millions of baht out of her account. When I read it, it was still on-going and the bank hadn't reimbursed her, despite it being their employee who stole the money. From memory, this had been on-going for 2 years, although I can't remember it fully and can't find a link.

Putting a large amount of money into an account without an ATM card, and transferring small amounts to an account with an ATM card every month is obviously what I would do - I did exactly that in Australia (even though the banks there will give you the money back with very little fuss if it is proved stolen). If the money in the main account with the large balance and no ATM card isn't safe from bank employees, that makes thing very different if the bank won't hand the money back to you straight away. That's what worries me, rather than the bank failing.

[anselpixel]

I receive my retirement and investment dividend funds in a US bank account, and transfer as needed to my Thai Bangkok Bank account.

Never had a problem in several years, and fees are minimal.

This is possible if you do your primary banking in any country with a Bangkok Bank branch.

I drop my passport off at the neighborhood office of my service, and always get it back within a week. They rigorously receipt it, in case I am asked while it's out of my hands.

All of this stuff is really easy and inexpensive if you're careful not to listen to too much talk on Thaivisa.

[Konini]

I receive my retirement and investment dividend funds in a US bank account, and transfer as needed to my Thai Bangkok Bank account.

Never had a problem in several years, and fees are minimal.

This is possible if you do your primary banking in any country with a Bangkok Bank branch.

Thanks for that, it's not the transfer fees so much, my bank charge $22. Usually I do a transfer of $10,000 at a time so it's only 4 or 5 times a year and I can live with that; I just didn't want to have to transfer a couple of thousand on the first of every month because then I would be paying the $22 12 times a year which is quite wasteful. Only $100 or so more, but we didn't get to retire at 43 by wasting money.

So to clarify, and please correct me if I have it wrong; if I transfer $40,000 or $50,000 a year into Thailand from overseas, my bank passbook showing those transfers is the only proof of income that I need to satisfy immigration requirements for a retirement visa.

[Diplomatico]

I receive my retirement and investment dividend funds in a US bank account, and transfer as needed to my Thai Bangkok Bank account.

Never had a problem in several years, and fees are minimal.

This is possible if you do your primary banking in any country with a Bangkok Bank branch.

Thanks for that, it's not the transfer fees so much, my bank charge $22. Usually I do a transfer of $10,000 at a time so it's only 4 or 5 times a year and I can live with that; I just didn't want to have to transfer a couple of thousand on the first of every month because then I would be paying the $22 12 times a year which is quite wasteful. Only $100 or so more, but we didn't get to retire at 43 by wasting money.

So to clarify, and please correct me if I have it wrong; if I transfer $40,000 or $50,000 a year into Thailand from overseas, my bank passbook showing those transfers is the only proof of income that I need to satisfy immigration requirements for a retirement visa.

Not exactly. The requirement is to have either 800,000 thb already in the Thai bank at the time of application OR a verified source of income that is at least 65,000 thb per month OR a combination of the two.

For the 800,000 thb on deposit method, your bank passbook will suffice.

I don't think - and I may be mistaken - that simply producing a bank passbook that shows you periodically transfer money from another country into this country would be sufficient to satisfy the income requirement. Most of what I read - and what I did - says you need to get a notarized verification of the source of regular income if you want to qualify via the income method. (Normally, but not always, these are regular payments from government pensions, disability payments, private retirement accounts, etc.)

You should check the aptly named "visa" section of ThaiVisa - the retirement visa is covered pretty well there, IMO. Helped me out quite a bit. Good luck.

[Mario2008]

Income from within Thailand is shown with tax documents, income from abroad with a letter from your embassy confirming your income and your embassy decides what they will accept as proof.

[Diplomatico]

Income from within Thailand is shown with tax documents, income from abroad with a letter from your embassy confirming your income and your embassy decides what they will accept as proof.

If you are applying from within Thailand then, yes, it's your embassy. If one is applying from within one's own home country then there is no embassy involvement.

[anselpixel]

I receive my retirement and investment dividend funds in a US bank account, and transfer as needed to my Thai Bangkok Bank account.

Never had a problem in several years, and fees are minimal.

This is possible if you do your primary banking in any country with a Bangkok Bank branch.

Thanks for that, it's not the transfer fees so much, my bank charge $22. Usually I do a transfer of $10,000 at a time so it's only 4 or 5 times a year and I can live with that; I just didn't want to have to transfer a couple of thousand on the first of every month because then I would be paying the $22 12 times a year which is quite wasteful. Only $100 or so more, but we didn't get to retire at 43 by wasting money.

So to clarify, and please correct me if I have it wrong; if I transfer $40,000 or $50,000 a year into Thailand from overseas, my bank passbook showing those transfers is the only proof of income that I need to satisfy immigration requirements for a retirement visa.

My transfer fee is $3.00.

That's from the US bank.

I can't comment on the ins and outs of the funds requirement. Ask ten people, and get a dozen answers. I just use the income letter.

[Saan]

. We are going to to Australia in February and can get a double entry on our Australian passports without any problem and 12 months will be up before we know it.

Don't bank on a 12 month visa in Australia. Things are tightening up there too. Six months is now the usual maximum but things can differ consulate to consulate and day to day.

[Konini]

DURH

My brain really is addled on these painkillers. Of course our gross income is shown on our tax returns. I was thinking of the taxable income, which would put us on borderline required income, but the gross income divided by 12 is way over what is required each month. That means a statutory declaration from the consul and a copy of the summary page of our tax return as proof will be enough to satisfy immigration.

Can't believe I didn't see that straight away.

Thank you everybody for answering my questions and bearing with me and my astonishing display of stupidity (I have an excuse which will remain unnamed because although prescribed by my Australian doctor with accompanying letter saying I'm authorised to carry and use it, I'm quite certain it's not legal here).

[deeks]

DURH

My brain really is addled on these painkillers. Of course our gross income is shown on our tax returns. I was thinking of the taxable income, which would put us on borderline required income, but the gross income divided by 12 is way over what is required each month. That means a statutory declaration from the consul and a copy of the summary page of our tax return as proof will be enough to satisfy immigration.

Can't believe I didn't see that straight away.

Thank you everybody for answering my questions and bearing with me and my astonishing display of stupidity (I have an excuse which will remain unnamed because although prescribed by my Australian doctor with accompanying letter saying I'm authorised to carry and use it, I'm quite certain it's not legal here).

Just thought i might share with you what i do.

I use the 800,000 in savings method. Fisrtly remember that the first time you apply for the 1 year visa the funds need to be in the Thai acc for at least 2 months prior to the date of the application and on subsequent applications the funds need to be in the account for at least 3 months prior to the application date.And if the balance drops below the 800,000 at any time during that 2 or 3 month period, your application will be declined.

Then i live off these funds for the next 9 months and then only transfer(from overseas ie Australia) enough money to bring the balance up to over the 800,000, normally 900,000, so i have 100,000 to live off for the 3 months before the next visa extension application date.

This way i dont need to prove any income, i dont need to mess around with trips to consuls, and there is no confusion with anyone at Thai immigration if the income type is acceptable or not, further to that I have ready funds available in Thailand for any large puchases i may make.

[KhunKevin]

I take my kids. That immediately pushes me up the queue.

Shhhhhhh ! don't tell people please, my neighbour loves me taking her kids out every 90 days Lol

[asiasurfer]

I take my kids. That immediately pushes me up the queue.

Screaming kids really help. OMG! Why I just didn't use a condom back then...???

Personally, I pay my agent 1,000 Baht for doing ALL my reports for the whole year. Well worth the money! Don't need to see any immigration officer, etc. Just drop my passport with the agent and get it back the very next day...

Cheerio..

[CNXBKKMAN]

Amazing how experiences differ. And timing makes all the difference. I went the 3rd week of June for my retirement extension. No appointment. Got there around 13:45 or thereabouts. They gave me the queue card and I hadn't been sitting down for more than 10 minutes before they called my number. Was led straight over to the guy who does my extensions every year. No questions as usual and was finished in about 15 minutes. The only thing different this year was I had to go to another desk where my passport was scanned and my photo was taken. Took another 5 minutes. Then I had to wait for an hour and 5 minutes just to get my passport back. If there had not been such a long wait for my passport, then I would have been out of there in less than an hour.

I'm going to try that, showing up in the afternoon for the one year extension, just to see if I can get lucky. If it doesn't work, I'll try it until it does. Showing up at 6:00 AM, only to find people already in line who must have slept there overnight, is an intolerable drag. Chiang Mai is not a 6:00 AM town.

And, to a previous poster, no offense, but I don't see how bringing your kids to that circus allows you to jump the queue. Look behind you next time and check the expressions.

Just been to C M immigration on 21 August for an O visa marriage extension. Immigration advised me to arrive at 05:00 to get a number! I actually arrived at 05:10 which allowed me to sit on the steps and eventually get number 36 at about 07:00 when numbers are handed out. By 07:00 the queue was massive. People who arrived after me basically had to stand up in a long queue. If you arrive at 05:00 or earlier you might get a seat in the coffee shop or out front on the steps! By 08:00 announcements are being made that all spaces have gone and try again next day. Office opens properly at 08:30.

I actually had to return again today at 08:30(i didn't need to arrive early and get a number this time) but at 08:10 the tannoy was announcing office was full again.

I have never seen it so busy. I think the office is at breaking point when all spots are taken even before the office is officially open. Very poor. When they advised me to arrive at 05:00 I thought they were joking! Standing in a queue in the car park for 2 hours plus is no fun or sat on the steps either.

[Duvidl]

There appears to be no way now to avoid making an appearance at immigration. Even with an agent, you are required to have your photo taken at immigration for a retirement extension. Also, be advised that immigration is now asking for a rental contract along with the other docs required for an extension. This wasn't usually demanded in the past, but apparently is required now.

90-day reporting, however, can still be done by mail, although I've always done that in-person, because it's usually not a big hassle.

It was reported yesterday that they will be adding more agents in the near future. This is crucial since having to show up at 5 AM and still not be guaranteed a spot the same day is really crazy.

[CNXBKKMAN]

At the moment turning up at 5 am you will be ok but i would guess if you arrived somewhere between 6 and 7 you might not make it and have to do it all again the next day. I did hear one person say they lived out of town and the earliest they could arrive was at 8am. They were on their fourth attempt and not happy at all.

[circusman]

NJ: "I do know that when you apply for the visa the bank book must match the letter from the bank even though they are both over the 800,000 baht mark. Have heard several times people had to deposit or take money out to get the two to match".

I too have read this, though it doesn't make much sense.

Just get the letter the day before, or on the Friday if a Monday appointment and have the bank update the passbook the same time as they write the letter, so that both match. In the case of Bangkok bank they put a 24 hour freeze on the book.

Regardless of which bank, it's easy enough to pre-plan so as not to touch the money for 24 hours.

No freeze on my bank book at Bkk Bank.

[Duvidl]

At the moment turning up at 5 am you will be ok but i would guess if you arrived somewhere between 6 and 7 you might not make it and have to do it all again the next day. I did hear one person say they lived out of town and the earliest they could arrive was at 8am. They were on their fourth attempt and not happy at all.

With the way things have been going I can see a time when we'll have to bring sleeping bags and camp-out. For those of us who don't live close to immigration, it might be worth getting a room in a nearby guesthouse the night before.

[elektrified]

At the moment turning up at 5 am you will be ok but i would guess if you arrived somewhere between 6 and 7 you might not make it and have to do it all again the next day. I did hear one person say they lived out of town and the earliest they could arrive was at 8am. They were on their fourth attempt and not happy at all.

This year I went the 3rd week of June for my retirement extension. No appointment. Got there around 13:45. They gave me the queue card and I hadn't been sitting down for more than 10 minutes before they called my number. Was out of there in about one hour. Last year I got there at about 7:50. Was out of there by 10:30.

I would never ever consider arriving there at 5:00, 6:00, or even 7:00. I might get up at that hour once a year. I would pay a visa agent before I would go to Immigration at 5:00 in the morning!

[Mapguy]

I, like electrfied, have never encountered over many years the kind of problems so often reported on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai. I don't work for the Immigration Office, and I am very glad that I don't! Who would like to work in that hellhole in which you are expected to know several languages of foreigners as well as deal with often remarkably discourteous manners in any country, not just Thai manners?

The CM office certainly doesn't get the major support or funding that it needs to handle the huge influx of tourists and long-stay foreigners (I am not talking about the huge managment problem dealing with cheap cross-border labor from Myanmar or China) in Chiang Mai. On the other hand, given what I have read here over the years, a lot of people simply don't do their homework --- and just blame the teacher! ( I do think that the Department of Immigration needs some language specialists and better IT support to help!)

But, to continue:

Consider the number of foreigners in Chiang Mai who have been playing with immigration laws and their application because they believe that Thailand is here for their convenience and enforcement has been lax. This is routinely apparent throughout ThaiVisa. Do I exaggerate? I think not! It is truly remarkable how tolerant (often sympathetic) that Thai officials have been and continue to be. New regulations? Not really. Just stipulations of new enforcement policy. Who can blame them ?

Which leads me to sk ThaiVisa CM cynics and miscelaneous others:

1. How many people can you honestly name who has been fined exorbitantly for a late 90-day report ? Especially if they can be shown to have tried, such as with a registered mail receipt.

2. How many people do you know who habitually cheat on an Ed visa and been put on a plane home?

3. How many people do you know who have a valid retirement visa and has been escorted to the airplane back home?

4. How many "visa runners" do you know who have so far been told "no re-entry" even if obviously playing games with the visa requirements?

5. For bonus points (This is really easy!), report how many foreigners do you know who play with the financial requirements of long-stay or tourist visas? Long-stay? Consider those Americans, for example, who lie on affadavits at the US Consulate. Or, consider those who doctor their bank balances with short three-month loans (usually at high fees) or who rotate deposits within a close group over a calendar year. (This practice shortcircuits the necessity to have emergency funds readily available in Thailand for medical emergencies, for example.)

6. There are no doubt dodges not mentioned. Want to share them? Get more extra points for reporting them!

In the end, consider their impact upon others: Thai generosity and tolerance as well as upon those who know where they are and abide by the house rules.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Mapguy

[Konini]

I, like electrfied, have never encountered over many years the kind of problems so often reported on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai. I don't work for the Immigration Office, and I am very glad that I don't! Who would like to work in that hellhole in which you are expected to know several languages of foreigners as well as deal with often remarkably discourteous manners in any country, not just Thai manners?

>>Big Snip<<

6. There are no doubt dodges not mentioned. Want to share them? Get more extra points for reporting them!

In the end, consider their impact upon others: Thai generosity and tolerance as well as upon those who know where they are and abide by the house rules.

I couldn't agree with you more. The reason - and only reason - for my starting the thread was to give people a heads-up on the current situation as to how early you have to go now to be able to get a slot in the queue. I've never thought about going in the afternoon, it seems to be quite different. I also should say that although we got number 95 in the initial queue, we got numbers 4 and 5 in the queue for tourist visa extension, and were out of the office by 8.45am. As with the four times we've extended a tourist visa, it was by far the queue with the least number of requests and we get out very quickly.

Many people would say that we have been guilty of dodging the system, and perhaps we have. In almost 4 years of basing ourselves in Chiang Mai, our time here has been the same; we are here for a couple of months then going somewhere for a month or two then we come back for a couple of months before heading off again. In the 5 years we've had one 12 month non immigration O visa - we found out very late in their run of handing them out willy-nilly about getting it from the consulate in Hull, and they had tightened it up when we were due to apply for another some 18 months later. After that we have had several double entry tourist visa's, 3 of which we have extended because we have wanted or needed to be here for a week or so longer than 60 days.

In my eyes, that doesn't make us permanent residents here but in a somewhat grey area between tourist and long term stayer. We have a lease on a condo, and quite literally use Chiang Mai as a base to come back to and catch our breath when we've been somewhere else. A place where we can relax in our own place and I can indulge in my hobby of cooking. We really had no choice but to do this on tourist visa's as we were under 50 and apart from 3 month non immigration visa's which wouldn't really be practical as we'd have to apply for one much more often than applying for a double entry tourist visa - we had no alternative except to buy an Elite card (never in a million years) or an education visa. My husband did actually go to the YMCA to learn Thai, but until last year they weren't accredited by the ministry of education. In any case, he did Thai Standard levels 1,2,3 (twice) and 4, and our leaving the country has been held up mostly by waiting for his short courses to finish. Due to the way we flit about and spend so much time away, it would be impractical for him to enroll on anything but a short course, so we would have been ineligible for a genuine student visa, and there is not a chance that we would abuse an educational visa, for no other reason that it is dishonest. Old Father Time has been catching up with us, and for the last little while, we've been eligible to apply for a retirement extension. To be brutally honest, we've been lazy; nothing more, nothing less. We more than qualify financially, we have no problems with health and therefore there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't have gotten off our bum's and sorted this out 18 months ago. We are attending a wedding in Malaysia in 2 weeks, and when we get back we'll convert our tourist visa's to non-immigration for the purpose of applying for a retirement visa and given the mad house it seems to be for anyone other than those extending tourist visa's, I think spending the money and going through an agent seems like a much more sensible idea.

I started the thread because I was surprised at how much things have changed since we did our first extension 3 or 4 years ago. Perhaps on the 3 times we've had to do this we've just caught it on a bad day. I'm not complaining though - there is no way that it would be so simple to extend your stay in my home country of England or my adopted country of Australia. I think a lot of people forget that. I've also found that the people who complain about it the loudest - both here on Thai Visa and that I speak to - are the same people who when living in the UK talk about 'All these bloody foreigners coming here and taking our jobs'. Or maybe I'm just cynical on that one.

I think I already said in an earlier post that the boys and girls out there at immigration do an absolutely magnificent job, under relentless pressure due to the sheer volume of work and having to deal with people who don't speak Thai or don't speak English very well or who are trying to dud the system or who are just plain and simply unpleasant (or have the worst next-morning, eye-wateringly sour beer breath, as has been the person sitting next to me on 2 occasions out of the 3 we've been there). Well done to them.

And if you want to complain about the system, just remember how hard it is for anyone to stay in your country longer than a few weeks.