Real Estate Bubble

[Asiantravel]

It seems I live in a different world than so many in Thailand and the CM area... I cannot imagine why anyone would travel half way around the world to a lovely tropical country and live in low rise / mid rise / high rise condo in a fast growing and increasingly urbanized area... Simply amazing ... Never the less... the real culprit over the past two- three years has been the political turmoil with abundant violence, followed by military take over, and now we have a systematic crackdown on foreigners working and or just living in Thailand (for reasons justified or not).

In my estimation the whole concept of over built - over hyped condo and other housing types in CM and elsewhere in Thailand is on very shaky ground. The economics of over building in the presence of happenings that discourage immigration of those with disposable income done on a large scale portends a really bad future outcome (IMO). Maybe the Chinese will save the day - but I really doubt it.

And this discussion says little to nothing about the overbuilt resort, hotel, guest house, bungalow, etc, rental market in CM and elsewhere that will end up competing with empty condos. Which only adds to the prognosis of a bad outcome... It is the law of supply and demand governed heavily by available disposable income of available customers ... which are factors greatly ignored...

" Maybe the Chinese will save the day - but I really doubt it."

I mean why would the Chinese possibly want to invest in Thailand when they have all the real estate bargains they could possibly want on their own doorstep

Take a Stroll Through the Ghost Cities of China

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100533574

Edited August 18, 2014 by Asiantravel

[iancnx]

Usually in a bubble prices (bid) are rising rapidly, credit is easy and there is a high rate of speculative turnover. That doesn't seem to be happening in CM now. There is however apparently considerable investment in projects that would seem to make little economic sense but IMO that is cash desperately looking for a laundry.

Not exactly the topic at hand but often forgotten are the many outstanding benefits of ownership (even in the FFF group!) outside of the purely economic aspects being discussed here.

Agree with the satisfaction factor of owning, designing and building your house [home] the way you want it and not living in a factory cookie cutter gated moo baan that some developer designed for mass appeal with all the same same houses so close together, but in buying the land, designing and building your own dream house, you limit your sell-ability to a much smaller group that has the same taste as you. I think that less than 1 % of buyers would live where and how I live. That's great until you may want to sell some day in the future, which I am finding out now.

I have designed and built (project managed) my own house on 2 Rai in my wife's village. An investment of 2 million baht total which I have already written off, insofar as i doubt it would ever sell, and I am very happy that it will form part of my son's inheritance. I have a lifetime Usefruct on the land. I suggest such expat properties in CM and adjoining provinces might account for 10% of the overall.

This is an entirely different scenario to putting a moobahn property in your wife's name if you are planning later at any point to sell/move. I don't need to repeat the obvious reasons, and also the difficulties of having Thai neighbours on such gated developments which were no doubt highly inflated price-wise in the first place. I'm not suggesting a bubble on this type of property but one should consider carefully the intrinsic value of such. I suggest such expat (Thai wife) properties might account for 30% of the overall. I doubt if there is a very high turnover of such properties, so many will be stuck with what they have, or take a loss on a sale. Obviously premium properties fall into a more attractive category in the market place.

Then there are the 'others' such as shop houses, guest houses, wooden structures, small holdings etc which perhaps could account for another 10% of the overall.

That the leaves I suggest perhaps 50 % of properties under expat ownership as condominiums. The difference with this group is the expat owns the freehold, and therefore can sell at will. Notwithstanding the recent overbuild of small studios, most condos can be rented relatively easy if the price is right. This market, in my view, only becomes a bubble if the oversupply is such that rental yields fall below financial viability. We are a long way from that provided the capital expenditure per sqm was under for example 45 baht per sqm.

It is a renters market for sure, but premium units fitted to expat standards will always be more attractive and will maintain yields. Thai owned shells furnished with crqp will always be cheaper. Buying at 70+ baht per sqm is barking mad at this point in time unless very rich speculators are taking a very long term view. Of course there is nothing wrong with paying whatver you can afford if you are going to live in it for the rest of your life. Those that purchased pre 2013 are likely to make a tidy capital gain in time, so I am happy with the two premium rental units I have in the city. Just my take on things.

Note: I realise the first 50% mentioned above are not legal expat owners of property . My examples are purely illustrative of a group who are at least quasi owners.

Edited August 19, 2014 by iancnx

[AnotherOneAmerican]

This is an entirely different scenario to putting a moobahn property in your wife's name if you are planning later at any point to sell/move. I don't need to repeat the obvious reasons, and also the difficulties of having Thai neighbours on such gated developments which were no doubt highly inflated price-wise in the first place. I'm not suggesting a bubble on this type of property but one should consider carefully the intrinsic value of such. I suggest such expat (Thai wife) properties might account for 30% of the overall. I doubt if there is a very high turnover of such properties, so many will be stuck with what they have, or take a loss on a sale. Obviously premium properties fall into a more attractive category in the market place.

I live there, no foreigners at all, all Thai.

1.8M for a 3 bed 3 shower, 2 storey house.

You need to take a look outside the foreigner enclaves of CM.

[iancnx]

This is an entirely different scenario to putting a moobahn property in your wife's name if you are planning later at any point to sell/move. I don't need to repeat the obvious reasons, and also the difficulties of having Thai neighbours on such gated developments which were no doubt highly inflated price-wise in the first place. I'm not suggesting a bubble on this type of property but one should consider carefully the intrinsic value of such. I suggest such expat (Thai wife) properties might account for 30% of the overall. I doubt if there is a very high turnover of such properties, so many will be stuck with what they have, or take a loss on a sale. Obviously premium properties fall into a more attractive category in the market place.

I live there, no foreigners at all, all Thai.

1.8M for a 3 bed 3 shower, 2 storey house.

You need to take a look outside the foreigner enclaves of CM.

Good it works for you. I would be interested to know if you could please share:

how many sqm for 1.8m when new,

how old is the property,

and do you have an association of owners to manage/maintain the complex?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Good it works for you. I would be interested to know if you could please share:

how many sqm for 1.8m when new,

how old is the property,

and do you have an association of owners to manage/maintain the complex?

145m2 on 55Tw.

New last year.

KKN in charge, still building for another year.

[ataloss]

^ Where. Google coordinates, pls

[iancnx]

Good it works for you. I would be interested to know if you could please share:

how many sqm for 1.8m when new,

how old is the property,

and do you have an association of owners to manage/maintain the complex?

145m2 on 55Tw.

New last year.

KKN in charge, still building for another year.

26.1 baht per sqm cannot be balked at, especially if the funds were transferred in during the middle of the last decade. A good buy I'd say. However beware that the developer will bail out and at that point the place could well turn to rats sh1t with dogs everywhere and crqp everywhere. To be honest @1.8m the development will perhaps not be attracting the most affluent of middle class. Just depends on your aspirations for the future. I have known successfully managed moo-bahns in the past, but this takes investment from each household. Even a modest investment from your neighbors, to keep the place from turning into a ghetto, might be a bridge too far. Good luck with that.

It must be said that exactly the same can be said for condo's. I am fortunate to be in a premium building with superb accountable management with the sinking fund 100% intact, and the operational account solvent, balanced and fully audited. I must admit I did have to sell another unit elsewhere in another building a few years ago due to all of the above going pear-shaped, due largely to the developer not giving a flying sh1t once it was 90% sold and the residents (including me) being too green to understand the enormous pitfalls of owning a condo, and the implications of it being managed by a largely absent and unaccountable Thai JPM.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

^ Where. Google coordinates, pls

http://kkn.co.th/

About 10 sites around CM.

http://kkn.co.th/location.php

Edited August 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[iancnx]

^ Where. Google coordinates, pls

http://kkn.co.th/

About 10 sites around CM.

http://kkn.co.th/location.php

There's another thread running about the Thai tendency to dump rubbish anywhere and everywhere. Do you ever envisage this happening in your all Thai Moobahn once the Developer (and his maintenance team) exits? Do you think if this happens you might find your potential capital gains perhaps be stymied?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

^ Where. Google coordinates, pls

http://kkn.co.th/

About 10 sites around CM.

http://kkn.co.th/location.php

There's another thread running about the Thai tendency to dump rubbish anywhere and everywhere. Do you ever envisage this happening in your all Thai Moobahn once the Developer (and his maintenance team) exits? Do you think if this happens you might find your potential capital gains perhaps be stymied?

I don't believe there are any capital gains to be made on property in CM.

Don't really care about the value, I only own 15%, it's the banks problem if I walk away.

I'm looking at it as a long term secure fixed rental, 11k/month for the next 25 years, is not too much.

The council collects any rubbish left out in the road once a week, 30bht a month, only they haven't collected the money for the last 6 months.

Most Thai houses look a bit like a rubbish tip outside, mine included.

Edited August 20, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[mamborobert]

^ Where. Google coordinates, pls

http://kkn.co.th/

About 10 sites around CM.

http://kkn.co.th/location.php

There's another thread running about the Thai tendency to dump rubbish anywhere and everywhere. Do you ever envisage this happening in your all Thai Moobahn once the Developer (and his maintenance team) exits? Do you think if this happens you might find your potential capital gains perhaps be stymied?

KKN are a pretty good developer and you do not see any slippage in their older estates. I do not think commerically they could let that happen as it would affect reputation and new sales. Also KKN tend to be abel to sell all blocks so less area to dump. From recollection only there was a thread about something being dumped behind a house (not in a moobahn) where there was vacant land behind and discussion on following up with village head...so no maintenance team there at all if this is the thread you are referring to.

[Happyman108]

Just went over to My hip condo behind Big C extra or the new coming Platinum mall to pay my last installment before it's ready to hand over in Nov, and I met a Chinese guy from China who just bought 2 units (balance around 8-10 units) in My Hip condo and another 6 more units in the new project The Treasure (ready in 2016).........and I'm sure he's paying in cash and not loan from local Thai bank. Guess the bubble still can last a little longer...

[Happyman108]

It seems I live in a different world than so many in Thailand and the CM area... I cannot imagine why anyone would travel half way around the world to a lovely tropical country and live in low rise / mid rise / high rise condo in a fast growing and increasingly urbanized area... Simply amazing ... Never the less... the real culprit over the past two- three years has been the political turmoil with abundant violence, followed by military take over, and now we have a systematic crackdown on foreigners working and or just living in Thailand (for reasons justified or not).

In my estimation the whole concept of over built - over hyped condo and other housing types in CM and elsewhere in Thailand is on very shaky ground. The economics of over building in the presence of happenings that discourage immigration of those with disposable income done on a large scale portends a really bad future outcome (IMO). Maybe the Chinese will save the day - but I really doubt it.

And this discussion says little to nothing about the overbuilt resort, hotel, guest house, bungalow, etc, rental market in CM and elsewhere that will end up competing with empty condos. Which only adds to the prognosis of a bad outcome... It is the law of supply and demand governed heavily by available disposable income of available customers ... which are factors greatly ignored...

" Maybe the Chinese will save the day - but I really doubt it."

I mean why would the Chinese possibly want to invest in Thailand when they have all the real estate bargains they could possibly want on their own doorstep

Take a Stroll Through the Ghost Cities of China

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100533574

Some Chinese are sending their kids to CMU to study English and Thai, just met some Chinese student who study in CMU for 1 year and was learning Thai for past 2 years in part of their Uni subject when they're in China.

Some or most of these kids parent are from middle upper class and can afford to buy a 45sqm condo anytime. Beside, main city like Guangzhou, ChongQing, ShenZhen etc Condo price are easily above 180,000 baht/sqm for a 70 years lease hold condo. So when they compare CM as 2nd city of Thailand selling at around 50,000 baht/sqm for a free hold condo, this is a real bargin for them.

[iancnx]

It seems I live in a different world than so many in Thailand and the CM area... I cannot imagine why anyone would travel half way around the world to a lovely tropical country and live in low rise / mid rise / high rise condo in a fast growing and increasingly urbanized area... Simply amazing ... Never the less... the real culprit over the past two- three years has been the political turmoil with abundant violence, followed by military take over, and now we have a systematic crackdown on foreigners working and or just living in Thailand (for reasons justified or not).

In my estimation the whole concept of over built - over hyped condo and other housing types in CM and elsewhere in Thailand is on very shaky ground. The economics of over building in the presence of happenings that discourage immigration of those with disposable income done on a large scale portends a really bad future outcome (IMO). Maybe the Chinese will save the day - but I really doubt it.

And this discussion says little to nothing about the overbuilt resort, hotel, guest house, bungalow, etc, rental market in CM and elsewhere that will end up competing with empty condos. Which only adds to the prognosis of a bad outcome... It is the law of supply and demand governed heavily by available disposable income of available customers ... which are factors greatly ignored...

" Maybe the Chinese will save the day - but I really doubt it."

I mean why would the Chinese possibly want to invest in Thailand when they have all the real estate bargains they could possibly want on their own doorstep

Take a Stroll Through the Ghost Cities of China

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100533574

Some Chinese are sending their kids to CMU to study English and Thai, just met some Chinese student who study in CMU for 1 year and was learning Thai for past 2 years in part of their Uni subject when they're in China.

Some or most of these kids parent are from middle upper class and can afford to buy a 45sqm condo anytime. Beside, main city like Guangzhou, ChongQing, ShenZhen etc Condo price are easily above 180,000 baht/sqm for a 70 years lease hold condo. So when they compare CM as 2nd city of Thailand selling at around 50,000 baht/sqm for a free hold condo, this is a real bargin for them.

Happyman, please get one of these chaps to PM me. I have just what they are looking for!

[cheeryble]

Did a little tour of new condos recently to help a friend research to buy.

Two low end places....DCondo and OnePlus....both poorly finished with poor or mediocre outlooks....prices 54,000 to 74,000/sqm

Then visited Nimmana show flat.

It looked kinda luxury but in fact the floor was laminate and furniture and the tap fittings say were certainly not top end.

Price 102 sqm for 10million!.

That's 90,000/sqm.

BTW the first two places were all but sold out curtains were all in and cars filling underneath.

(Anyone know how Nimmana is selling?)

I compare this as top notch conversions in better older buildings are still under 45,000/sqm.

This is a complete step up in quality even from Nimmana at 90,000.

Talking teak or marble floors, granite tops, teak builtin furniture, top stainless fittings, full Panasonic electrics etc etc.

Add to this the better olde buildings generally have the best locations whereas those above are crammed between other buildings with various degrees of in attractiveness.

It says to me that as yet condos are selling.

Most important to me it says owners in older buildings must press to get their common areas shipshape and ABSOLUTELY

ensure impeccable maintenance....in this case I think the older buildings can be considerably more attractiv and have large potential for price rise.....it is poor maintenance and updating which causes concern and holds them back.

Remember in a very few years the "new" buildings won't look much different from the well kept older ones.

Last.....I have heard real evidence of Chinese looking to buy, and they are everywhere now.

Seems to me CM or THailand may become for China what Spain became for Britain and Germany some decades ago, top holiday or second home destination.

CM after all is about the same distance by car or by air, and Thailand has the largest ethnic Chinese population in the world outside ?China.

Spain experienced a very strong and long growth in property based on this which only hiccuped after 40 years with the 2008 crash basically precipitated out of country.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited August 24, 2014 by cheeryble

[AnotherOneAmerican]

@Cheerybie

Spain is a disaster zone, 25% unemployment, (50% unemployment in the under 25s).

Property in Spain valueless (and has been for nearly 15 years).

Yep, Thailand may become another Spain, but does anyone really want that?

Edited August 24, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[mesquite]

Did a little tour of new condos recently to help a friend research to buy.

Two low end places....DCondo and OnePlus....both poorly finished with poor or mediocre outlooks....prices 54,000 to 74,000/sqm

Then visited Nimmana show flat.

It looked kinda luxury but in fact the floor was laminate and furniture and the tap fittings say were certainly not top end.

Price 102 sqm for 10million!.

That's 90,000/sqm.

BTW the first two places were all but sold out curtains were all in and cars filling underneath.

(Anyone know how Nimmana is selling?)

I compare this as top notch conversions in better older buildings are still under 45,000/sqm.

This is a complete step up in quality even from Nimmana at 90,000.

Talking teak or marble floors, granite tops, teak builtin furniture, top stainless fittings, full Panasonic electrics etc etc.

Add to this the better olde buildings generally have the best locations whereas those above are crammed between other buildings with various degrees of in attractiveness.

It says to me that as yet condos are selling.

Most important to me it says owners in older buildings must press to get their common areas shipshape and ABSOLUTELY

ensure impeccable maintenance....in this case I think the older buildings can be considerably more attractiv and have large potential for price rise.....it is poor maintenance and updating which causes concern and holds them back.

Remember in a very few years the "new" buildings won't look much different from the well kept older ones.

Last.....I have heard real evidence of Chinese looking to buy, and they are everywhere now.

Seems to me CM or THailand may become for China what Spain became for Britain and Germany some decades ago, top holiday or second home destination.

CM after all is about the same distance by car or by air, and Thailand has the largest ethnic Chinese population in the world outside ?China.

Spain experienced a very strong and long growth in property based on this which only hiccuped after 40 years with the 2008 crash basically precipitated out of country.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Check out City View condo.

[heybruce]

I've read that the Chinese that are doing very well are trying to stash assets and children outside of China, in case they end up on the wrong side of one of the regular political battles or if the entire economic system proves to be a house of cards. Perhaps the Chinese that are doing well but not really well are doing the same thing in Thailand.

[Thighlander]

I did, Mesquite.....kind of nasty....but great location; if you prefer the (L)east side of town.......a can look past the stained paint, but not the malfunctioning , dangerous elevators. I would probably go with C-view, if I was bottom fishing.

[heybruce]

I've read that the Chinese that are doing very well are trying to stash assets and children outside of China, in case they end up on the wrong side of one of the regular political battles or if the entire economic system proves to be a house of cards. Perhaps the Chinese that are doing well but not really well are doing the same thing in Thailand.

I should have proof-read before posting. I meant to write "trying to stash assets and children outside of China into safe countries in Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and other stable, comfortable places, ...).

Sending children to university in one of these countries, then using a large portion of the family wealth to set the student up in a nice house or condo with a generous bank account is a way to get money out of China without too many question. Thailand doesn't really check all the boxes for a rich family trying to move a lot of wealth, but it might work for the moderately prosperous.

[mesquite]

I did, Mesquite.....kind of nasty....but great location; if you prefer the (L)east side of town.......a can look past the stained paint, but not the malfunctioning , dangerous elevators. I would probably go with C-view, if I was bottom fishing.

I've often wondered if it might be a place for a speculation. Perhaps down the road some big hotel chain might want to buy the land and put up a nice building as CM grows. One might be able to obtain good money for a rat hole condo that is standing in the way of development. Great location as you say, but not much else, now anyway.

Edited August 24, 2014 by mesquite

[elektrified]

Just went over to My hip condo behind Big C extra or the new coming Platinum mall to pay my last installment before it's ready to hand over in Nov, and I met a Chinese guy from China who just bought 2 units (balance around 8-10 units) in My Hip condo and another 6 more units in the new project The Treasure (ready in 2016).........and I'm sure he's paying in cash and not loan from local Thai bank. Guess the bubble still can last a little longer...

Did you do any research before buying? Did you get a contractor/engineer to take a look and give you an assessment? I went over there to the building that has been complete for about 2 years now (the one on the soi where the gym used to be before they moved). A friend in Bangkok asked me to check it out for him as he was interested. The construction was unbelievably poor quality. The columns in the underground parking structure were about 1/2 the size they should be. That was the first thing I noticed. There were stress cracks everywhere in the concrete. At the time I was there the building was less than a year old and already tiles were falling off, the pool leaked and there were cracks in the deck, tiles falling off.... One of the worst quality building projects I've ever seen. The security guard showed me around a bit and told me they were having a difficult time selling because the building was falling apart after it was less than a year old.

[elektrified]

@Cheerybie

Spain is a disaster zone, 25% unemployment, (50% unemployment in the under 25s).

Property in Spain valueless (and has been for nearly 15 years).

Yep, Thailand may become another Spain, but does anyone really want that?

That is not exactly true......

It's true what you say about unemployment.

Property in Spain enjoyed one of the largest booms in recent European history, leading up to 2007 global financial crisis when the Spanish economy plummeted. Many, many Spaniards sold land prior to 2007 that had been in their families for generations and never went up in value too much. In the small village I lived in Murcia, many people who were farmers and shopkeepers sold land for 200 to 500,000 Euros and in spite of what happened in Spain, they are pretty much set for life if they maintain their small town lifestyle. Many of the buyers were British, Dutch, Swedish, etc. Valueless for 15 years? No. 8 years maybe.

[Happyman108]

Just went over to My hip condo behind Big C extra or the new coming Platinum mall to pay my last installment before it's ready to hand over in Nov, and I met a Chinese guy from China who just bought 2 units (balance around 8-10 units) in My Hip condo and another 6 more units in the new project The Treasure (ready in 2016).........and I'm sure he's paying in cash and not loan from local Thai bank. Guess the bubble still can last a little longer...

Did you do any research before buying? Did you get a contractor/engineer to take a look and give you an assessment? I went over there to the building that has been complete for about 2 years now (the one on the soi where the gym used to be before they moved). A friend in Bangkok asked me to check it out for him as he was interested. The construction was unbelievably poor quality. The columns in the underground parking structure were about 1/2 the size they should be. That was the first thing I noticed. There were stress cracks everywhere in the concrete. At the time I was there the building was less than a year old and already tiles were falling off, the pool leaked and there were cracks in the deck, tiles falling off.... One of the worst quality building projects I've ever seen. The security guard showed me around a bit and told me they were having a difficult time selling because the building was falling apart after it was less than a year old.

Thanks elektrified for the info, actually did not do much research on My Hip 2,3 &4 but just look at My Hip 1 and look ok to me. My Hip 1 is around some time as Convention Condo about 5-6 years back, and do have some issue with cracks and tiles falling in the pool area. But the management is responsible enough to repair and keep it well maintain so the building is still looking good and strong after 6 years.

Beside, My Hip is having another new project The Treasure, so I'm sure they will try their best to ensure better quality for this coming Hip 2,4&4 as it will affect their sales of The Treasure if My hip owner stay complaining......cross my finger

Lastly, I felt most condo in CM is not 1 grade condo and price are consider cheap with just USD 60-70,000 for a 40sqm +/-, I don't expect a perfect condo without any defect, but as long the structure is strong and management willing to make repair and to touch up is fine. ....I have seem worst condo from KKN actually.

[mamborobert]

Just went over to My hip condo behind Big C extra or the new coming Platinum mall to pay my last installment before it's ready to hand over in Nov, and I met a Chinese guy from China who just bought 2 units (balance around 8-10 units) in My Hip condo and another 6 more units in the new project The Treasure (ready in 2016).........and I'm sure he's paying in cash and not loan from local Thai bank. Guess the bubble still can last a little longer...

Did you do any research before buying? Did you get a contractor/engineer to take a look and give you an assessment? I went over there to the building that has been complete for about 2 years now (the one on the soi where the gym used to be before they moved). A friend in Bangkok asked me to check it out for him as he was interested. The construction was unbelievably poor quality. The columns in the underground parking structure were about 1/2 the size they should be. That was the first thing I noticed. There were stress cracks everywhere in the concrete. At the time I was there the building was less than a year old and already tiles were falling off, the pool leaked and there were cracks in the deck, tiles falling off.... One of the worst quality building projects I've ever seen. The security guard showed me around a bit and told me they were having a difficult time selling because the building was falling apart after it was less than a year old.

Thanks elektrified for the info, actually did not do much research on My Hip 2,3 &4 but just look at My Hip 1 and look ok to me. My Hip 1 is around some time as Convention Condo about 5-6 years back, and do have some issue with cracks and tiles falling in the pool area. But the management is responsible enough to repair and keep it well maintain so the building is still looking good and strong after 6 years.

Beside, My Hip is having another new project The Treasure, so I'm sure they will try their best to ensure better quality for this coming Hip 2,4&4 as it will affect their sales of The Treasure if My hip owner stay complaining......cross my finger

Lastly, I felt most condo in CM is not 1 grade condo and price are consider cheap with just USD 60-70,000 for a 40sqm +/-, I don't expect a perfect condo without any defect, but as long the structure is strong and management willing to make repair and to touch up is fine. ....I have seem worst condo from KKN actually.

Could you expand upon which KKN condo you consider is not up to scratch ?. I have looked an One Plus and The Trio and they both look light years in quality above My Hip. The Convention Condo looks very good but as you have pointed out only 6 years old and a top dollar place and IMHO not really fair to compare with My Hip on dollars alone let alone maintenance. The KKN business parks are spreading like confetti but seem to have no problem selling and getting good businesses operating in them.

Edited August 24, 2014 by mamborobert

[elektrified]

Just went over to My hip condo behind Big C extra or the new coming Platinum mall to pay my last installment before it's ready to hand over in Nov, and I met a Chinese guy from China who just bought 2 units (balance around 8-10 units) in My Hip condo and another 6 more units in the new project The Treasure (ready in 2016).........and I'm sure he's paying in cash and not loan from local Thai bank. Guess the bubble still can last a little longer...

Did you do any research before buying? Did you get a contractor/engineer to take a look and give you an assessment? I went over there to the building that has been complete for about 2 years now (the one on the soi where the gym used to be before they moved). A friend in Bangkok asked me to check it out for him as he was interested. The construction was unbelievably poor quality. The columns in the underground parking structure were about 1/2 the size they should be. That was the first thing I noticed. There were stress cracks everywhere in the concrete. At the time I was there the building was less than a year old and already tiles were falling off, the pool leaked and there were cracks in the deck, tiles falling off.... One of the worst quality building projects I've ever seen. The security guard showed me around a bit and told me they were having a difficult time selling because the building was falling apart after it was less than a year old.

Thanks elektrified for the info, actually did not do much research on My Hip 2,3 &4 but just look at My Hip 1 and look ok to me. My Hip 1 is around some time as Convention Condo about 5-6 years back, and do have some issue with cracks and tiles falling in the pool area. But the management is responsible enough to repair and keep it well maintain so the building is still looking good and strong after 6 years.

Beside, My Hip is having another new project The Treasure, so I'm sure they will try their best to ensure better quality for this coming Hip 2,4&4 as it will affect their sales of The Treasure if My hip owner stay complaining......cross my finger

Lastly, I felt most condo in CM is not 1 grade condo and price are consider cheap with just USD 60-70,000 for a 40sqm +/-, I don't expect a perfect condo without any defect, but as long the structure is strong and management willing to make repair and to touch up is fine. ....I have seem worst condo from KKN actually.

I'm not sure what building you are buying into. I am referring to My Hip Condo on the soi directly across from the plaza where the restaurants, massage shops, etc. The gym used to be in there for many years. Further down the soi is My Vietnam Restaurant. It's on the corner of that soi and the soi that runs directly behind Big C. The columns were so small I would be worried about what might happen during an earthquake. I did not view any other buildings -- I didn't know there were others.

[mamborobert]

My Hip Condo 2 3 4 are basically phases of the same site at the back of Big C. They were offering gold bars for Chinese/Thais who were signing up (chance at 150 000 baht bars if signed up by end of May 2556......Had a great phone number of 053 24 88 99, my Thai/Chinese wife thought that was the bees knees with the 8's for Chinese and 9's for Thais. Same number is being used for The Treasure. Their web page www.myhipcondo.com as mentioned on all their promotional material has now gone the way of the dodo. Apart from the mention of the columns the place was also put up in pretty much record time. There was always guys working on the site even at night they had the cranes going loading on the next level. Often used to see them when going to the market they had nearby on Friday and Saturday night but that has got a lot smaller now as well as space became a premium.

The Treasure is going up sort of between Big C and Payap...with a majestic waterfront ...probably with the money they made from My Hip. I think that it will be a better job regardless with location and starting price is about 7 million baht in adverts...again the website is supposed to be (per promotional material) www.thetreasure.com.. good luck finding that as well. If interested :http://www.checkraka.com/release/condo/1355663/ and specifically promises a support structure for earthquakes ....

Edited August 24, 2014 by mamborobert

[WillG]

Did a little tour of new condos recently to help a friend research to buy.

Two low end places....DCondo and OnePlus....both poorly finished with poor or mediocre outlooks....prices 54,000 to 74,000/sqm

Then visited Nimmana show flat.

It looked kinda luxury but in fact the floor was laminate and furniture and the tap fittings say were certainly not top end.

Price 102 sqm for 10million!.

That's 90,000/sqm.

BTW the first two places were all but sold out curtains were all in and cars filling underneath.

(Anyone know how Nimmana is selling?)

I compare this as top notch conversions in better older buildings are still under 45,000/sqm.

This is a complete step up in quality even from Nimmana at 90,000.

Talking teak or marble floors, granite tops, teak builtin furniture, top stainless fittings, full Panasonic electrics etc etc.

Add to this the better olde buildings generally have the best locations whereas those above are crammed between other buildings with various degrees of in attractiveness.

It says to me that as yet condos are selling.

Most important to me it says owners in older buildings must press to get their common areas shipshape and ABSOLUTELY

ensure impeccable maintenance....in this case I think the older buildings can be considerably more attractiv and have large potential for price rise.....it is poor maintenance and updating which causes concern and holds them back.

Remember in a very few years the "new" buildings won't look much different from the well kept older ones.

Last.....I have heard real evidence of Chinese looking to buy, and they are everywhere now.

Seems to me CM or THailand may become for China what Spain became for Britain and Germany some decades ago, top holiday or second home destination.

CM after all is about the same distance by car or by air, and Thailand has the largest ethnic Chinese population in the world outside ?China.

Spain experienced a very strong and long growth in property based on this which only hiccuped after 40 years with the 2008 crash basically precipitated out of country.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I am very interested in any examples of buildings with these "top notch conversions" for under 45k/sqm ? ... Thanks

[elektrified]

Just out of curiosity - if anyone knows, how much does it cost per m2 to build in C.M.? (Not a condo but a house or a town house).

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Pal of mine just bought a condo in CM, 1.5M, 85M2, 10 years old.

That was 100k less than the owner paid for it 6 years ago.

Not much ROI there.