Embassy in Bangkok says "20 days overstay no problem!"

[Pi Sua]

The French embassy is still advising that 20 day overstay is tolerated.

I got an E-mail from a French "official" elected by the French living abroad.

He affirm that to be overstay is not illegal but just simply regarded as something absolutly not risky.

I know that it's purely criminal.

So Mr George, did you send the letter to the French ambassador and if yes what did they answer?

If they didn't answer anything, I'd like with your help to open a new topic asking to all the French readers and even the non French to send e-mail like a petition to the French Embassy and even to the French Ministry of Foreign Affair to stop the spreading of this dangerous and criminal information.

French Embassy Visa Overstay

Edited April 29, 2004 by Pi Sua

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I cannot read much French Bruno, but that Froggy Embassy in Bkk ( and probably elsewhere in the world, act criminally in respect of their Nationals ) Set up a poll here, and find other disaffected French citizens. You lot killed all the good people

[george]

So Mr George, did you send the letter to the French ambassador and if yes what did they answer?

If they didn't answer anything, I'd like with your help to open a new topic asking to all the French readers and even the non French to send e-mail like a petition to the French Embassy and even to the French Ministry of Foreign Affair to stop the spreading of this dangerous and criminal information.

Yes, I emailed them at your request months ago, but they didn't care to answer back. I will make a News item of this topic and see if the will change their mind.

They still say that overstay is 100 Baht/day and up to 20 days overstay is no problems....

Here is an automated translation of the info on The French Embassy's website:

One can also leave the territory and return to profit from another 30 days authorization. In the event of going beyond of the duration granted by the visa, a fine of 100 bahts per day of going beyond (with 20 days a tolerated maximum) is to be regulated with the Overstays counter with the passport control to the airport.

Translation by: babelfish.altavista.com

[Maejo Man]

Bruno, many questions arise from your post. Firstly I had a look at your French Embassy page, basically all they said was that if your visa has expired, you will be charged 100 baht per day for overstaying, and further, that a period of twenty days is tolerated! Admittedly a stupid thing for a responsible Embassy to proclaim, but there again it IS the French Embassy...'nuff said.

Secondly, why would you own Embassy refuse a passport renewal? Something perhaps a little irregular? Embassies do not intentionally "throw you into overstay" Au cotrair mon ami, they are there to aid the bona fide traveller.

Why now, pray tell, are you still waiting for a new passport after three and a half months?

"I'm worry about contacting the consul or the ambassador about this big mistake because they can easily cheat me again"

My dear Bruno, Consuls and Embassies do not "cheat" their nationals, they help them, all be it very slowly sometimes. If you paperwork and credentials are all in order, the issue of a new passport is a mere formality. Something must be dreadfully wrong somewhere, n'est pas mon ami?

[Pi Sua]

And still say that a visa or an extention cost 500 bahts instead of 1900 bahts.

[geovalin]

By the way, the fares they indicate are wrong (500 bt instead of 1900 for the additionnal 10 days and 100 Bt instead of 200 for a one day overstay).

[bob4you]

My last trip to LOS in January I overstayed by one day. As I exited the airport I was sent to a "overstay room" My passport was stamped and there was no charge, I was told 1 day No Charge 2 or more days B100 per day.

[astral]

My last trip to LOS in January I overstayed by one day. As I exited the airport I was sent to a "overstay room" My passport was stamped and there was no charge, I was told 1 day No Charge 2 or more days B100 per day.

That used to be the rule,

but now is anybodies guess.

I would not like to try it.

If you have any trouble with the police and you do not have a valid visa you are in big trouble.

They can just lock you up and call immigration, and the cells are Suan Plu do not have a 5 star rating, not even -5 stars.

The same applies if you do not have your passport with you, though generally other Thai id like a driving licence will do as a starter.

[Pi Sua]

  Why now, pray tell, are you still waiting for a new passport after three and a half months?

Yes, because they make them in France and this is apparently the normal delay. New optical Passport "Delphine"

My dear Bruno, Consuls and Embassies do not "cheat" their nationals, they help them, all be it very slowly sometimes.

They DO cheat their national if they intend to and they often intend to. It depends on which category of citizen you belong to.

If you paperwork and credentials are all in order, the issue of a new passport is a mere formality.

It should be but it doesn't work like that.

Something must be dreadfully wrong somewhere, n'est pas mon ami?

Yep and not only for me and not only for the passeport.

They are carrying lying to the French citizen about the registration in the embassy even they've lost twice on the "Conseil d'Etat" (French Supreme Court)....

...but the worst, they are lying about the wedding. They forced the French who want to marry a Thai citizen to provide income statements and other documents to please the Thai authorities and force to marry first under the Thai wedding settlement.

Totally against the French law and French constitution as in Thailand the French consul or the French ambassador can marry under the French wedding settlement regardless of the Thai law or the opinion of the Thai authorities. UNFORTUNATLY, this law concern only the French men and not the French Women.

I'll soon open a new topic about that.

They were being sued in the Supreme French Court and are being sued in the European Court of the Human Right. And it's a matter of time that the Ex consul and Ex ambassador here are going to be sued in criminal court with some others because I've just been informed by the Supreme French Court that was the right court when they decide not to marry someone.

As you are saying, they do their best to help.....it can be slow......2 years for my sun to get his french ID card.....after going in court..... ....I love them.......really.......4 years and still waiting for my wedding......I promise you, I love them....they are really helpfull......the bravest people in this world....recently a French retired victim of a swindling, was jailed and beaten in the police office in Chiangmai......the French embassy said that they could not complain officialy....

Very soon I published the letter he sent to Toxin....a new topic...

It's time the people know who they really are I'm not alone to complain.

Whatever, thanks to Thaivisa.com to be here that now it's easier to speak about what's happening in Thailand.

[somboon]

You wouldn't expect much more from the French would you though.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You wouldn't expect much more from the French would you

NOPE....WOULD YOU ?

\I wouldn't....would you ?

[MekhongKurt]

Given the reports of incorrect information from not just any embassy but from the French one, I'd like to say one of my best friends here is a Police Senior Sergeant Major in the Area 2 Immigration Headquarters here in Bangkok, and he tells me such misinformation is unfortunate (to say the least!) because it gives people overstaying false comfort.

Now that the Immigration Department is pretty much computerized, it's an easy matter for Immigration authorities to check one's record with respect to visas, overstaying, etc.

My friend says the zealousness strict enforcement varies, but we're talking the difference between pretty darned strict and draconian, from what he says. He does say the shorter the overstay the less problem one will have upon departure --but he adds that enforcement is pretty much absolute, meaning that with the exception of a 1-day overstay, for which one isn't fined (though changing the regulations to allow a fine of 200 baht for even a single day's overstay is apparently under serious consideration), a fine will be imposed.

The fine is most assuredly 200 baht per day.

Of greater concern to me than the fine is the record, since that means a black mark for any overstay. And it's important to remember that contrary to popular belief, a visa is NOT a guarantee one will be allowed entry into any country in the world; it is permission for a foreigner to report to any given country's immigration authorities at a port of entry, authorities who decide whether or not to let the foreigner in. And if anyone has a long history of overstays -- even short ones -- they do pop up on the officer's screen here (and elsewhere), so an officer is within his or her legal rights if permission to enter is denied.

And my friend says that record is being weighed far more heavily these days than it used to be.

I had a passport stolen last year *just* before I was due to make a visa run. I was 2 or 3 days late leaving, so had to pay a nominal fine. The officer at the airport was very polite about it, and told me my record was good enough I didn't need to worry. However, upon my return a few days later, the officer to whom I reported questioned me at some length about my stolen passport, having seen the record of the incident on her computer screen. I hasten to add she was extraordinarily polite -- but she did question me for a good 10 minutes. (And let me in with no further ado.) She specifically said the short overstay was one reason, if by far the lesser one, she was questioning me.

I've never visited the French embassy, but if someone reading this thread knows someone in the embassy, perhaps he or she could let that person know. And it would be an easy matter for the appropriate embassy personnel to confirm the current state of affairs via the Immigration Department.

[Serge]

QUOTE (somboon @ Sat 2004-03-13, 16:52:23)

You wouldn't expect much more from the French would you

NOPE....WOULD YOU ? 

\I wouldn't....would you ?

Pray tell; Dr and Somboon, what Nationalities are you blessed with?

Bruno has asked for other people to assist him in effecting a change at the Embassy of France in Thailand. Why the wise ass comments in return? If you encountered a similar situation at your own respective Embassies, would you appreciate the sort of helpful idiotic comments (Quoted Above) you have offered Bruno?

Is it really necessary to belittle Bruno and all French people to get your rocks off?

Serge

[dezeure]

The fines have doubled in the past few months and are now about 200 Baht a day. You have to pay (if I remember correctly) over 1000 Baht to extend your stay with 10 days which used to be the 500 Baht = 1 extra month at Suan Phlu.

After those 10 days they charge you 200 Baht a day overstay but you can pay your overstay in advance ?!?!?! My friend did it, and wanted to extend it for a month, so he extended the 10 days and after 10 days he went back and said he wanted an extra 20 days. They said its 200 Baht a day and ended up paying 4000 Baht for those extra 20 days.

Its really cheaper to go to Laos for a day and get another 30 days then to pay this stupid money sucking gov't in overstay.

SD

[castelleone]

besides Bruno`s problems with his french embassy which seems to me a quite personal thing, why in heaven do you guys not simply obey your visaruns and live quiet and peacefully in LOS.

Exceptions of course if someone looses his passport. But if that would happen to me, as it did in the past in Russia, I am confident to find a way with the local immigration office and my nearest Consulate.

By the way, I had been given a brand new passport last year within 6 weeks from my BKK embassy.

[sting01]

As always people speak but they have no clue about what they are spoken ... sound like it's just to have their name on the screen.

First, let me dear sirs and madam, explain you something about Embassies : THEY WILL NEVER GIVE YOU A PASSPORT, the Embassador (french or English or any other nationalities will never deal with that, nor with a single national, not his business, he is here to take care of the relation btw 2 countries, not to help Mr X to find where is the door for the toilets. Then if the happy camper who started the topic is going to meet the embassador for a passport, he is wrong.

Second, passport, registration of the national who are in a foreign country, protection of the nationals who are in a foreign country are the job of the Consul and the consular affair. There is 2 possibilities, or you are a normal citizen, and things are usualy smooth, or you have problem with your national justice, in this last case the Consul will not let you access to some services (mostly the registration) but will still protect you (if possible).

The case you describe is simillar (I don't say it's you) to another who involve a french citizen "en rupure de ban aux vues de la legislation francaise", then it was necessary for all the document to take the full way and let the time to the concerned people to verify the reallity and the accuracy of the documents.

About the text in the embassy website, some comments:

it's an old text, made in 2001, then yes it's not up to date about the fine.

The wording is essentialy "administratve wording" far different of the language (slang maybe????) you seems to speak ; the 20 days is reffering about the max fine you can pay (in this case 20 000 bht, or 40 000 bht with a fine of 200 bht per day). I must also confess the administrative language can not be translated by babel or other automatic translator.

Have you ever though to throw your nationality, and became the citizen from another country? Are you sure, assuming you are a bona fide resident in Thailand, you are not "personna non grata " in France, it could be the right answer. It's named : Retour du baton, si tu as fais le con la bas, tu subiras les consequences ici

[Whiplash]

the 20 days is reffering about the max fine you can pay (in this case 20 000 bht, or 40 000 bht with a fine of 200 bht per day).

Eh.. that would be 100 days overstay with your knowledge in math.. or 1000 or 2000 baht/day for 20 days..

[pschef]

First, let me dear sirs and madam, explain you something about Embassies : THEY WILL NEVER GIVE YOU A PASSPORT, the Embassador (french or English or any other nationalities will never deal with that, nor with a single national, not his business, he is here to take care of the relation btw 2 countries, not to help Mr X to find where is the door for the toilets. Then if the happy camper who started the topic is going to meet the embassador for a passport, he is wrong.

I would like to know why I had 2 consecutive British passports, both issued in Bangkok and one before that issued in Jeddah KSA. All the other stuff I dont really care about, but tend to agree about Toilet doors

[Bozo]

Dear Bruno,

As a French National, you most probably know that France is:

Situation:

1. The country with the highest people taxation rate in the World, and probably with the most ferocious Tax department rules & officials as well (a single person is globally taxed over 70% of his/her income in France).

2. One of the most "socialising" country in the World, this being measurable by the level of State allocations & assistance given to any French National, as well as by the culture of "assistanat" well developped and maintained, which is used to justify the high taxation level.

As such, France has a very fat civil servant system (50% of the working population), even if usually SLOW and PROCEDURAL (as most civil services Worldwide), which obviously has to fight for its survival and to justify its salary/budget (POWER), which is generated by the taxes of the non civil servants.

And French people, civil servants or not, are also as clever as any other people of the World & with the same qualities & weaknesses, that you can easily measure by the overzealousness of the French tax department power & people in the specific case (POWER & PROCEDURE) of taking part of their income/budget from the non-civil-servant sheeps, which only use in existence is to be yearly fleeced.

Also, the French civil servant system, through its structures or its officials, and despite being subject to respect the French laws as any French National, has always had a habbit to take liberties with it, often abusing of its prerogatives in order to increase its POWER. In short, a French civil servant thinks a French National is at his/her service, while it is the opposite, as civil servants are supposed to be at the service of French Nationals.

Explanation:

...I've been waiting for a new passeport for three and a half month...

At this point in time, is being introduced in France the so-called "secured passport", with the aim of controlling people more thorously (taxes again, within many other things), in coordination with many other World countries such as Thailand and else, following the lead of the USA, and mostly under the pretext of "terrorism".

These new "secured passports" are currently being made in French territory only, and the average waiting time is of about 6 months (SLOW), anywhere in Asia, to have your passport made as such. The PROCEDURE might have not yet been properly setup...

By the way, it seems that the Hong Kong French Consulate should be able to make "secured passports" on-site in a few days starting next month (see http://www.france.com.hk/).

If you are in an emergency, then the concerned French Consulate has the obligation (PROCEDURE) to issue for you a 6 months temporary traditionnal French passport (at no cost, if the validity of your current one is still ok). You just have to make them understand that you are in a case of emergency (POWER).

...2 years ago...this embassy refused to deliver me a new passeport and had confiscated the old one...

The actual National sport of French civil servants being to chase the non civil servants for making them pay as much taxes as possible, one of the ways to constraint people, at the extreme limit of French legality (...), is to issue a passport to them only, when they provide a proof that they are resident of the country, where the issuing office (Consulate, Embassy, or else) is located.

Of course, this is illegal according to the French law. It nevertheless seems to be a PROCEDURE applied in most of French Embassies & Consulate Worldwide, even if possibly not written.

The right way to have your passport made, even if you are not resident of the country, where the issuing office is located, is in the order:

1. Always be nice with civil servants, try to make a friend (they are human beings as anybody, you know...), give them face (= give them the impression they have POWER), and don't argue with them (rather play stupid, when necessary), so you can come back to them later, even if in desagreement.

2. Try to have a pull to help you in the concerned Embassy/Consulate through connections (similar to any country in the World, such as China, India, Thailand,...), and it will be done smoothly & in no time. This works beautifully as it uses the "French ways".

3. If "1" and "2" didn't work, then make a sitting in the concerned office and start making a scandal, shouting, preventing them to work, annoying with your issue any French National coming to the office. As there is nothing a civil servant dislikes more than having his/her daily routine disturbed, it sometimes can help put oil in the system... also, they perfectly know this PROCEDURE is illegal, according to the French law...

In case of solution "3", if you are lucky your noise will disturb the Embassador or Consul, who has other things to do, and will instruct his "subjects" to promptly grant you your passport...

Of course, in the case of solution "3", you will then be put for life in the civil servants "black list" (yes, it does exist), and will be systematically annoyed during any future interaction with the French civil service.

Enjoy and be smart !...

[frenchFARANGbkk]

....they are human beings as anybody, you know....

...sure you don't know this SOB in the french embassy...

...anybody I know who had to deal with him wanted to send him throw the window....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

QUOTE (somboon @ Sat 2004-03-13, 16:52:23)

You wouldn't expect much more from the French would you

NOPE....WOULD YOU ? 

\I wouldn't....would you ?

Pray tell; Dr and Somboon, what Nationalities are you blessed with?

Bruno has asked for other people to assist him in effecting a change at the Embassy of France in Thailand. Why the wise ass comments in return? If you encountered a similar situation at your own respective Embassies, would you appreciate the sort of helpful idiotic comments (Quoted Above) you have offered Bruno?

Is it really necessary to belittle Bruno and all French people to get your rocks off?

Serge

The French Embassy has a notoriety for giving out misinformation to its citizens ( As reported here by said citizens ) The British Embassy shares a similar reputation. Now I got my rocks off again.

[African]

La France a le bas impôt!!

Denmark has the highest income tax rate, with its top-taxed citizens paying 68% of their hard-earned crowns. The basic tax rate begins at 42%.

Source: Guiness World Records

Anyone want to move to Denmark???

[dr_Pat_Pong]

La France a le bas impôt!!

Denmark has the highest income tax rate, with its top-taxed citizens paying 68% of their hard-earned crowns. The basic tax rate begins at 42%.

Source: Guiness World Records

Anyone want to move to Denmark???

God no....it has got european weather.

[hkt83100]

I cannot read much French Bruno, but that Froggy Embassy in Bkk ( and probably elsewhere in the world, act criminally in respect of their Nationals ) Set up a poll here, and find other disaffected French citizens. You lot killed all the good people

From my limited french I can get, they are still writing about 100 Baht per day for overstay. Update your pages, please...

[Pi Sua]

I'd like to make something clear.

For me is not a problem at all because I know that it is a wrong and dangerous information.

The problem is the other French citizens who are put in danger by the saying of the French Embassy.

I have not open a topic to talk about the taxes but to find an efficient way to make the French embassy to change this dangerous "advise".

Also I've seen numbers of mistakes here even it's secondary with the problem the French have to clear.

The 200 baht fine is existing for already 5 years and I doubt about the fact that someone paid only 100 at the airport.

What has changed few months ago is the visa fee.

I'll comment just after some posts.

[Pi Sua]

when they provide a proof that they are resident of the country

Following the decree no 2001-185 du 26 février 2001:

Article 3

resident or living place

They want to force to register even whether the Foreign Ministry affair says they do not apply sanction if you don't want to register, they do sanction you.

They have just change the decree for the registration because some civil servant took it really in the wrong way and it is much better now but still I know by some people and a recent publication in Thailand that they take it in the most possible wrong way for the people.

If you are in an emergency, then the concerned French Consulate has the obligation (PROCEDURE) to issue for you a 6 months temporary traditional French passport (at no cost, if the validity of your current one is still ok).

First they refuse this emergency passport (which could also be one year) if you are not registered, it's not my case but better to know. It's totally illegal but they don't care.

Second they charge you about 2000 bahts even if my passport is still valid, they also write it in their website. I'll ask the question at the senators about this.

Passport French embassy

By the way, it seems that the Hong Kong French Consulate should be able to make "secured passports" on-site in a few days starting next month

It's sure. In fact it's not only Nantes now but since 15 January 2004 Bruxelle is also included, since 26.01.04 Geneva, since 02.02.04 London and Hong Kong is the new secure passport fabrication centre for south east Asia adopted by decree.

Also, the French civil servant system, through its structures or its officials, and despite being subject to respect the French laws as any French National, has always had a habbit to take liberties with it, often abusing of its prerogatives in order to increase its POWER. In short, a French civil servant thinks a French National is at his/her service, while it is the opposite, as civil servants are supposed to be at the service of French Nationals.

Absolutely true. You couldn't have said better.

[Pi Sua]

One can also leave the territory and return to profit from another 30 days authorization. In the event of going beyond of the duration granted by the visa, a fine of 100 bahts per day of going beyond (with 20 days a tolerated maximum) is to be regulated with the Overstays counter with the passport control to the airport.

Translation by: babelfish.altavista.com

As someone pretend that we cannot get a passeport in the embassy also pretending that the automated translation is wrong, I would say that is a very good translation which reflects the exact meaning of the original text.

Here are the e-mail of the French Embassy and consulate. More people there will be informing them about this dangerous information, better it will be.

There are nothing bad in my doings, I just want to help my compatriots and all who might be leading in the wrong way because of this information.

I'm sure that if the Embassador knew about it and about the real risks, he would give immediate orders.

[email protected]

[email protected]

[Pi Sua]

Press and communication

[email protected]

[royar2002]

France is under the new shengen who have the same rules for every country!

If you dont have any criminal problem in Shengen or Thailand, your embassey have to give you new passport (valid 5 or 10 years) within 48 hours. Same rules for all european country. If they dont give you new paaport send an E-mail to shengen headoffice in France or Strassbourg!

[Pi Sua]

Thanks for those address I'm going to check that but for the 48 hours delay, the problem is the time to make this new optical passports which is truly long.

For all I do apologise for the next post which is coming but there is a non sense and agressive post down there.

It's personnal and you might not want to read it but I advise you to read the paragraph before the last one because it will surely interest lots of you.