Missionaries in CM - I hear ya knockin'...

[usasia8888]

i believe its the hokey pokey... and we can invite the girl who made the star and 6andles too.

What if the hokey cokey really is what it's all about ...

 
Which brand of hokey cokey?  I'm holding out for the one that provides credible evidence it's the right one.
 

Right or left. As long as you shake it all about!

[Frank James]

 

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 By me for one and I think you will find by a large proportion of the people here.

They should keep their cultural genocide in their own country.

 

 

"Cultural Genocide"?? Hyperbolic post of the Week.
 

[NeilSA1]

 

Has anyone ever conducted any meaningful research into the missionary position?
 
 

An attempt at humor. ....and so original. ..not.

 

 Posted by mikehock on 2014-08-05 05:14:01      "Why do some folks find it necessary to put down others. .."

 

          Your comments 5th August

[HerbalEd]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

Historically I'd say the've done a lot more bad than good. Nothing worse than misguided good intentions. 

[Oziex1]

What do you get if you cross a JW with a Hells Angel?

 

 

 

 

Someone who knocks on your door on a Sunday morning and tells you to F Off!

[vogie]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."
 
Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

Unwanted by me for one, if I want to find salvation I will knock on their door, please don't knock on mine and waste my time and yours!

[laolover88]

I once spent (about 1968 as I remember) a happy summer, on a bed on a balcony, by the river, in Vienna, with a
Citroen DS, converting nubile atheist Hungarian refugees to Christianity

[northernjohn]

 

What if the hokey cokey really is what it's all about ...

 

Which brand of hokey cokey?  I'm holding out for the one that provides credible evidence it's the right one.
 

 

 

Check with me in 50 years.

[antsrule]

They come by my house 1 time a month. Very nice and decent people. Mostly Australians or Canadians.  
Doesn't hurt to talk with them for 10 minutes.
They just come for a talk and don't care if you are a christian , Buddhist or Muslim and will not try to convert you to their religion.
Enough misery on the world already , so whats wrong with a friendly talk ?

I must say that it beats the hell out of the ISIS option when they appear at your door "Convert, pay or off with your head"

[rlopes]

These people have destroyed many cultures.

I was shocked to see really remote tribes in Lao that were evangelized and forgotten about their old religions.

[northernjohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

I got caught in Australia once when I opened the door and two nuns were there.  Told them I was not interested as I was a Budhist and the older one said that is great, she lived for 25 years in Bangkok and learnt meditiation at various places here.they came back a couple of times and were always a pleasant 10 minutes but nott a word about the Catholic religion.

 

When I first arrived here in Thailand I looked around and with my limited knowledge of Catholicism I asked what was the difference in-between the two. They both seemed to put forth the same set of principals.

 

I was told that in Buddhism you where responsible for every thing in your life. Like the Catholics they did recognize their was a God but they maintain God will do nothing for you. If you want some thing it is up to you to attain it. where on the other hand many Christians think God will do every thing for them. Other than that they seem to be close to the same as far as I am concerned.

 

Now when it comes to the actions of the private individuals in each group there is a wide disparity at times in some maybe a lot of the times in what the members of each group say and do. Never the less I like the principals they put forth for living. As for after death well who really knows. We are made up of energy and energy can not be destroyed.

[northernjohn]

These people have destroyed many cultures.

I was shocked to see really remote tribes in Lao that were evangelized and forgotten about their old religions.

 

Not a reliable source but I was told that in some of the villages two or more religions had come in and the village cooperation went down hill.

 

As I say my source is not always reliable.

[ianf]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 

"A lot of Good"? Don't make me laugh! They'll only do stuff to benefit themselves. As for JW's they really are a horrible insidious movement. They've been around our Moo Baan three times, that I know of, in the past 5 years. I've even been stopped by them in the street in the centre of Chiang Dao. I know a lot about this nasty religion because my parents brought me up as one of them, until I broke free at the age of 12/13. My nephew did the same and he was kicked out of his family house for refusing to believe their crap. As for all of the sexually dysfunctional Christian missionary groups: Tell me: What right have they got, moral right, to go around offering their beliefs as if it were the 'truth'? What right have they got to claim a monopoly on truth? Add to this the similar nastiness of Islam groups and you have a potent mix which we can already see destroying our world. Not for the first time: You can read history and plot the march of Islamists from the Middle East across Asia: Forcing people to believe or be killed and then burning down their temples. They're doing the same thing now. And what of George Bush's brand of Protestantism? Isn't there some thing about his extreme Christian views and the ensuing Christianity v Islam wars/terror that has led to tens of thousands of deaths over the past years? In Chiang Mai you can often spot the repressed-looking long skirted female Brethren living in subservient terror to their bible-wielding masters. Not much different to those poor Islam women kept wrapped up in unnatural black bin liners. Dangerous nasty propaganda from both groups. No different from each other, if you ask me. Sexual repression and control of women appears to be the root of both religions.
 

[ianf]

 

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

And they've done a lot of damage to cultures that are vulnerable to confusion of ideas. I lived in Papua New Guinea for 6 years (Jan 1980-October 1985) where there are orthodox and evangelist Christians, often doing wonderful things yes, but at the same time bringing Christian ideology  to primitive people who have little or no Western education or understanding of the white mans ways. What these religions bring is the creation of religious boundaries, boundaries where dislike for christian groups other than their own creates conflict and confusion of ideas. For example, there were more than 50 Christian groups in PNG spread throughout PNG. It became a serious problem for the PNG government and the last I heard was restrictions for certain groups entering the country was put in place.

 

I recall years ago listening to a Jehovah's witness preacher from some suburb in Sydney publicly speaking to  a crowd of locals in Boroko Port Moresby. I was deeply embarrassed to hear the nonsense he preached about the evils of polygamy, infidelity, and how they would be punished by Almighty God if they didn't change their ways. The orthodox religions on the other hand did bring medical, technical, primary education and social ideas to improve life for the locals. I am an atheist but see the good that religious groups like Catholics, Lutheran, and the Seventh Day adventurists do by providing, hospitals, schools, etc. but they don't try to change a 40,000 year old culture to a Western one in 50 years.

 

Let people of other cultures live their own life and enrich their own culture by passing down the stories, ideas to their children without outside interference by twisted, ignorant religious despots.

 

 

If we're going to recall anecdotes here, let's get the facts straight. Jehovah's Witnesses knock on people's doors or go into their offices or stop people in the street. They don't do street preaching so the poster above is incorrect. The preacher was probably an Adventist, Plymouth Brethren or some other such fantasist. But he was not a JW. Read my other post. I know about this particular nasty cult because my whole family have been marooned from reality by their pernicious rubbish all my life. And as for the poster who claims that they are different from her brand of Christianity: Nonsense. In my opinion and in my experience, they are all the same spouting dangerous repressive nonsense.

 

[Oww]

Even if it is true. It does not represent the vast majority of missionaries.

Ted Bundy kidnapped and murdered women, but that does not mean that all men are serial killers. 

First of all your comparison is ridiculous numerically speaking.

Second of all, if we have to compare the worst of them to a psychotic murderer

of unarmed, innocent women, (your idea),  then we should absolutely be wary of ALL of them.

[Ulysses G.]

Even if it is true. It does not represent the vast majority of missionaries.
Ted Bundy kidnapped and murdered women, but that does not mean that all men are serial killers.

First of all your comparison is ridiculous numerically speaking.

Is it? How many missionaries do the kinds of things that you have given one example of?

[quidnunc]

 

I mostly like the missionaries here. They are usually pleasant and happy and, if we talk about religion, they don't push it very hard. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe they can just tell that there is no hope of convincing me. 

 

I post again. And to the "un-lucky ones.." 

 

Google:

Sterilization and Blood theft of Akha women by missionaries in Thailand.

 

When I read this, it didn't pass the smell test.  They stole blood?  Really? At any rate, I did a cursory search on google and came up the accused missionary's detailed reply.  Here's the link: http://www.akha.org/content/sterilizations/akhasterilizationsbyamericanmissionary.html

 

[philw]

It is a vainglorious arrogance for any missionary of any religion to try and make conversions, especially in poorer countries where they can exploit poverty and hardship to their advantage.

 

"Ah......you have the illness, we have medicines, please read our bible............."

 

It is possible to help people without pushing your own brand of brainless superstition, but somehow none of the Christian missionaries have ever done that.

 

Never have, never will.

 

And the religious nutters that have darkened the natural beauty of northern Thailand by putting up thousands of loud yellow signs spouting biblical nonsense, all over the road systems, need to be hunted down and jailed for vandalism and desecration of nature.

 

Pastafarianism any one ??

 

 

[opalred]

they came to my door once and said you know jesus died for you i said why didnnt you tell me he was sick
they left

[elektrified]

Recently I had a knock on my door on a Saturday at 8AM.
I rushed up bleary eye in a towel and hung over, sure it must have been a FIRE or some dire emergency. God damn Jehovah's !

Seriously?

 

In 2008 when I first moved into my house in Sansai I had the exact same experience...8:00 on a Saturday, hung over, half asleep, came downstairs in my shorts, thought there must be an emergency. Sure enough, about 6 Jehovah's Witness - but all Thais. I couldn't believe it. All of them fairly young; perhaps 25 years old. The guys stood in the back and didn't speak, all wearing white shirts and black ties while the ladies did the talking. They were nice enough, left some of their colorful brochures after I politely told them I wasn't interested and offered them a couple of bottles of water. Never saw them again or any other Thai or farang JW's at my door since.

 

Over the years my opinion of the missionaries has changed. They actually do a lot of good. They employ many Thais and pay them very well for the most part, most learn to speak Thai very well, and they do a lot of business in C.M. My experience is that the Thais like them; generally speaking. There are some missionaries in my moobaan whom are extremely well educated people, friendly, and have never once tried to push their beliefs on me. Of course there is the oddball (like the bearded fanatic who stands around the Night Bazaar area reading the bible in a loud tone of voice), but who well could be mentally ill and is quite annoying. But the majority seem to be busy in their daily activities and don't bother others.
 

[Konini]

My husband is special.  I got him straight from his mam.

.

The first time he was left in the house by himself he had a visit.  'Some of our new neighbours have been around' he said. 'They stayed a bit long, but seemed nice enough. They were sorry to miss you but they said they'll pop back in tomorrow.  Well, they'll have to, the bloke left his magazine, I've left it on the table'.

 

When I said 'Please tell me you didn't let the Jovie's in?' he said 'Eh? Course not.  What do you think I am?'.

 

True story.  I kid you not.  He was 19. As I said, I got him straight from his mam  The only reason we've been married 30 years is because I daren't leave him alone.   

[northernjohn]

 

Recently I had a knock on my door on a Saturday at 8AM.
I rushed up bleary eye in a towel and hung over, sure it must have been a FIRE or some dire emergency. God damn Jehovah's !

Seriously?

 

In 2008 when I first moved into my house in Sansai I had the exact same experience...8:00 on a Saturday, hung over, half asleep, came downstairs in my shorts, thought there must be an emergency. Sure enough, about 6 Jehovah's Witness - but all Thais. I couldn't believe it. All of them fairly young; perhaps 25 years old. The guys stood in the back and didn't speak, all wearing white shirts and black ties while the ladies did the talking. They were nice enough, left some of their colorful brochures after I politely told them I wasn't interested and offered them a couple of bottles of water. Never saw them again or any other Thai or farang JW's at my door since.

 

Over the years my opinion of the missionaries has changed. They actually do a lot of good. They employ many Thais and pay them very well for the most part, most learn to speak Thai very well, and they do a lot of business in C.M. My experience is that the Thais like them; generally speaking. There are some missionaries in my moobaan whom are extremely well educated people, friendly, and have never once tried to push their beliefs on me. Of course there is the oddball (like the bearded fanatic who stands around the Night Bazaar area reading the bible in a loud tone of voice), but who well could be mentally ill and is quite annoying. But the majority seem to be busy in their daily activities and don't bother others.
 

 

 

Well it is a nice story and I don't doubt it for a minute. My question is were they missionaries or Thais who had a job and were supporting them selves and had been converted.

 

I agree that the missionaries have done a lot of good in the community but not today. What good is it in converting one from Buddhism to their brand of thinking? Where is the benefit in that.

 

 McCormick Hospital is one benefit. Also they are responsible for a leukemia colony that has now turned into a hospital/retirement home. Sorry I can not recall the name. But these were things done long ago. What are they doing now?

 

When I hear the words missionaries I think of people coming over here specifically to spread their brand of the word. Not the ones who came and started such projects as I have mentioned. Yes they do spend money but what do they do. Long ago I was in a computer shop and overheard one on Skype talking to the people back home. I won't go into detail but I will say this if he talked to me like that I would have cut him off rudely and ran He was the minister at the church sponsoring him and explaining within inches how he wanted his office arranged.

 

I have a cousin who is at present traveling South east asia sharing the word of God. How ever it is with the established churches not going out to the people. How many of the present day missionaries are doing just that.

 

If they are today performing worthwhile projects that benefit others I would sincerely welcome the information.  Not sure if it was and is a missionary project but I took language lessons a few years back through cornerstone. I how ever paid 200 baht an hour for the service.

[elektrified]

@northernjohn

 

I didn't ask the Jehovah's Witness people how they support themselves. It's none of my business and I couldn't care less. There are a lot of them in Bangkok; both Thai and farang. I'm not interested in them at all. I can't answer your questions. You can contact the organization directly at their Bangkok headquarters.

 

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

What on earth is a leukemia colony??? Do you really think leukemia is contagious?

[MESmith]

@northernjohn

 

I didn't ask the Jehovah's Witness people how they support themselves. It's none of my business and I couldn't care less. There are a lot of them in Bangkok; both Thai and farang. I'm not interested in them at all. I can't answer your questions. You can contact the organization directly at their Bangkok headquarters.

 

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

What on earth is a leukemia colony??? Do you really think leukemia is contagious?

 

I think he meant leper colony.   Got the first 2 letters right, then spell checker took over

[Oscar2]

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

 

 

i would say it's more like 80-90% of patients at McCormick are Buddhist's. it's a popular place for the health plans many Thai companies offer their employees.  they do not have any religious practices there that i know of. been there a number of times.

[MESmith]

 

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

 

 

i would say it's more like 80-90% of patients at McCormick are Buddhist's. it's a popular place for the health plans many Thai companies offer their employees.  they do not have any religious practices there that i know of. been there a number of times.

 

 

McCormick hospital was set up by missionaries.  Without them, no McCormick hospital.

[CMHomeboy78]

@northernjohn

 

I didn't ask the Jehovah's Witness people how they support themselves. It's none of my business and I couldn't care less. There are a lot of them in Bangkok; both Thai and farang. I'm not interested in them at all. I can't answer your questions. You can contact the organization directly at their Bangkok headquarters.

 

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

What on earth is a leukemia colony??? Do you really think leukemia is contagious?

northernjohn might have confused leukemia with leprosy, but the point he was making was valid, and relevant to the subject of his post.  If I understand him correctly it is the distinction between what the missionaries have done in the past and what they are doing now.

Chiang Mai has a number of schools and hospitals founded by missionaries in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that are still thriving - although for the most part now run by Thais.

The McKean Institute is a good example. Founded in 1908 by the missionary Dr.James McKean [1860-1949], it became world famous for its innovative treatment of leprosy and the establishment of a community near Chiang Mai where the lepers could live and develop skills to do craftwork.  Before that, many of them lived under the old Saphan Nawarat.

Many other examples could be given of what missionaries have done in the past.  I've read numerous first-person accounts with interest.

What many people would like to know is what they are doing now in addition to evangelizing.

[northernjohn]

 

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

 

 

i would say it's more like 80-90% of patients at McCormick are Buddhist's. it's a popular place for the health plans many Thai companies offer their employees.  they do not have any religious practices there that i know of. been there a number of times.

 

 

I said started many years ago. They are now under a Thailand wide Christian network. Yes it was a leper colony.

The former Leper colony is also under Christian leadership. It has a history of over 100 years.

 

I see by the answers I have received that as far as any one knows the missionaries do no good now. That is a shame as I said I would really be interested. I have seen the JW hall and it is not built for the large number claimed by some people. The Mormons have a bigger temple/hall.

 

Interesting how some people can know there are a large number of JW in Chiang Mai and know absolutely zilch about them.

 

Thank you all for your polite I am clueless answers.

Edited August 13, 2014 by northernjohn

[northernjohn]

 

@northernjohn

 

I didn't ask the Jehovah's Witness people how they support themselves. It's none of my business and I couldn't care less. There are a lot of them in Bangkok; both Thai and farang. I'm not interested in them at all. I can't answer your questions. You can contact the organization directly at their Bangkok headquarters.

 

McCormick Hospital has nothing to do with it. Anyone can be treated there and there are plenty of Buddhists (probably 60-70% of the patients) and everyone pays the same.

 

What on earth is a leukemia colony??? Do you really think leukemia is contagious?

northernjohn might have confused leukemia with leprosy, but the point he was making was valid, and relevant to the subject of his post.  If I understand him correctly it is the distinction between what the missionaries have done in the past and what they are doing now.

Chiang Mai has a number of schools and hospitals founded by missionaries in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that are still thriving - although for the most part now run by Thais.

The McKean Institute is a good example. Founded in 1908 by the missionary Dr.James McKean [1860-1949], it became world famous for its innovative treatment of leprosy and the establishment of a community near Chiang Mai where the lepers could live and develop skills to do craftwork.  Before that, many of them lived under the old Saphan Nawarat.

Many other examples could be given of what missionaries have done in the past.  I've read numerous first-person accounts with interest.

What many people would like to know is what they are doing now in addition to evangelizing.

 

 

Thank you for your information. I was unaware of the schools they had started. Are these schools that are still in operation still Christian? I know there are some around but not that familiar with them as I do not have any kids in school here. At one time considered trying to find one for a mentally challenged nephew of the wife but had no idea of where to even start the search at the time.

[Ulysses G.]

Interesting how some people can know there are a large number of JW in Chiang Mai and know absolutely zilch about them.

I used to teach with a JW couple who have been here for more than 20 years. They support themselves, speak Thai fluently, live very frugally and are some of the nicest people that I've ever known. We discussed religion a number of times, but they were never pushy about it and were interesting. I probably brought it up in the first place.