Missionaries in CM - I hear ya knockin'...

[CMHomeboy78]

There aren't many farangs living on our soi, so when I saw a young family group - father, mother, and small child at our front gate a few days ago it was somewhat unusual.

I greeted them cordially and asked what I could do for them.  They were exceptionally good looking young people and the soul of courtesy and civility; coming across more like Thais than your typical farangs.

Americans, or possibly Canadians judging by their accent.  It wasn't long before they came to the point and asked me if I wanted to find the answers to life's "big questions."  Even before popping that absurd question I had guessed that they were missionaries; so after accepting a brochure I excused myself and ended the encounter.  They were Jehovah's Witnesses.

Is this the beginning of a new charm offensive by that quietly aggressive group?  They're not bad people really, just space cadets.

Chiang Mai in the 1980s saw a sharp increase in missionary activity by several cult-like sects that encroached on the turf of the evangelical Protestants who have been established here since the mid-19th century.

By far the most bizarre was the one known as the Children of God.  When they appeared in Chiang Mai in the mid-80s they had [as a result of internal ructions] changed their name to The Family, but most people still called them Children of God.  They have been given much publicity by Joaquin Phoenix and his parents and siblings. Also Jeremy Spencer, a founding member of Fleetwood Mac, as well as a few other stars of lesser magnitude.

Their most successful method of proselyltizing was what they called "Flirty Fishing" by the young female members of the sect.  This entailed the use of sexual attraction and intercourse to gain converts.

They lived in a commune, or "colony" as they called it, on a soi off Huay Kaew.  It was in a big Japanese style teak house on a fairly large plot of land with several outbuildings surrounded by a high wall.  A lovely area of gardens, orchards, and upscale homes, long since obliterated by urban sprawl.

Unwelcome attention by the authorities coincided with the full outbreak of the AIDS epidemic in the late 80s to put an end to their activities in Chiang Mai.

I'm not suggesting that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a sex-cult.  I know they're not. I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity.

That might provoke a further tightening of immigration rules and regulations in the name of peace, order, and ethnic cleansing.

God forbid... amen.

 

[mesquite]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

[willfreeman]

see a few outside kad sean kew around by the motorcycle parking like trying to convert the thais

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Edited August 11, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[spidermike007]

I like to say I will hear what you have to say, only if you speak to me about wisdom you have gleaned from your personal realization. If you are as serious as you say you are, about finding salvation, then you probably have been spending hundreds, maybe even thousand of hours in contemplation, prayer and meditation. So, speak to me about the pearls of wisdom you have realized upon the way. I do not want to be quoted scripture. I can get that from a vending machine, or a fortune cookie. But rather share with me your own personal spiritual wisdom.

This usually shuts them right up. It is not what they want to hear. It is not the path they are on. Most missionary types are al about expending 100% of their energy in changing the world to their way of thinking. It is neither an inward, nor a spiritual journey, in my opinion. I have no time for their "readings". Go away now, and learn something of your true nature please.


Spidermike
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[ramrod711]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 

Unwanted by me for one. I don't care what they're peddling, I don't want them ringing my bell.

[Chicog]

I came from a rough neighbourhood. We had Jehovah's Bystanders.

 

rat-a-tat-*ching*

[harrry]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 By me for one and I think you will find by a large proportion of the people here.

They should keep their cultural genocide in their own country.

Edited August 11, 2014 by harrry

[daoyai]

Jehove Witlesses are an especially annoying cult in that they often come with a sweet ol' granny or a darling teenage girl so that you are forced to be polite.  But they don't give up, they will return...again and again,  it got to the point (years ago and far away) that I had to go their "kingdumb hall"  and forced them to take a map with my house location on it and understand they must not enter my property.  

 

  I think the J.W. org is big enough that they get special treatment and visas from Thai Imm. as missionaries.

Edited August 11, 2014 by daoyai

[terminatorchiangmai]

They come by my house 1 time a month. Very nice and decent people. Mostly Australians or Canadians.  

Doesn't hurt to talk with them for 10 minutes.

They just come for a talk and don't care if you are a christian , Buddhist or Muslim and will not try to convert you to their religion.

Enough misery on the world already , so whats wrong with a friendly talk ?

Edited August 11, 2014 by terminatorchiangmai

[mat999]

I've never met any of these types but after watching two documentaries recently about evangelical christians basically murdering Ugandans by brainwashing them into banning condoms, I'd be rather skeptical to say the least. Would be quite interesting to have one try and convert me.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[cmsally]

My housekeeper always asks for their books - in bulk. That seems to make them happy; she leaves out the

important piece of info., which is she will sell to the recycler van by the kilo!!

[Mapguy]

Although I do not hold any religious beliefs, I regret that this thread seems to invite "missionary bashing." which has too often been a "sport" among many posters on Thai Visa Chiang Mai.

 

OP mentioned two groups in his post, one (The Family International) clearly a fringe group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_International) and the other (Jehovah's Witnesses) a long-established (1870s) non-trinitarian restorationalist Christian denomination ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses ). They are very, very different in their beliefs and activities.  Both, however, are evangelical and do missionary work.

 

Maybe one or the other will knock on your door.  I personally do not desire such an intrusion, but while not practicing any belief system and finding evangelical work intrusive, I do respect the social contributions --- especially in health care and education --- of many religious groups, in Thailand as noted by Mesquito above.  The impact in Chiang Mai has been significant.  And some of them are still doing their good work.

 

Regarding his final comment, I do not share OP's concern about missionary activity, to quote him: "That might provoke a further tightening of immigration rules and regulations in the name of peace, order, and ethnic cleansing."  Thailand is very tolerant of different religious beliefs.  There is a veritable potpourri of animistic, Buddhist and other belief systems and practices. Obviously, there are lines to draw; for example, preventing the abuse of minors.

 

Fortunately, compared to many places to live plagued by door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen,  there are actually few people who knock on your gate in Chiang Mai.  Some, as related by OP, have knocked on my door, and sending them away politely is no bother.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Mapguy

[daoyai]

if I have to put my trousers on to come to the door, you better be holding a pizza... 

[FolkGuitar]

When I was in my early 30's 'Wicca' was receiving a lot of attention. My live-in girlfriend was the High Priestess of the local Wiccan coven, a very benign assembly of 'white' witches. Her group, almost entirely women in their mid to late 20's, would go down to the lake shore at midnight on Wiccan holidays (Mid-Summer's Eve, Solstice, Equinox, etc., ) take off their clothes and dance naked in the moonlight while chanting prayers to heal 'Mother Earth.' I don't know if it did any good, but it was fun to watch...

One day some Jehovah's Witnesses, two women in their 50's, came to the door wanting to tell me about their God. I wasn't doing anything important at the time and they seemed like nice people, and I figured I could tell them about my Gods too. All of them. (Truth be told, they really didn't want to hear about them...) We were sitting in the living room and they were really getting into their speeches (I was interested and they figured they had a live one,) when my girlfriend walked into the room, smiled at them nicely, but didn't say a word. She was wearing some sort of cloak thing, but nothing out of the ordinary. She proceeded to take out a piece of chalk and draw a large pentagram on the wooden floor, still not saying a word. Then she took five white candles and placed them at the points of the pentagram and one red candle in the middle, and lit them all... still just smiling nicely and not saying anything as we continued our chat, though the witnesses were giving each other odd looks. Then my girlfriend took off her cloak, and being bare ass naked underneath it, began dancing in and around the candles, chanting. (Still smiling nicely.) The Jehovah's Witnesses, with eyes like saucers, immediately got up and walked out the door. Although we saw them on the street going door to door every week, then never once came back to our door in the four years I lived in that house. Too bad, too, as I wanted to get their take on a new religion I was planning.

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[MrBrad]

[attachment=278764:No Preaching.jpg]

[mesquite]

When I was in my early 30's 'Wicca' was receiving a lot of attention. My live-in girlfriend was the High Priestess of the local Wiccan coven, a very benign assembly of 'white' witches. Her group, almost entirely women in their mid to late 20's, would go down to the lake shore at midnight on Wiccan holidays (Mid-Summer's Eve, Solstice, Equinox, etc., ) take off their clothes and dance naked in the moonlight while chanting prayers to heal 'Mother Earth.' I don't know if it did any good, but it was fun to watch...

One day some Jehovah's Witnesses, two women in their 50's, came to the door wanting to tell me about their God. I wasn't doing anything important at the time and they seemed like nice people, and I figured I could tell them about my Gods too. All of them. (Truth be told, they really didn't want to hear about them...) We were sitting in the living room and they were really getting into their speeches (I was interested and they figured they had a live one,) when my girlfriend walked into the room, smiled at them nicely, but didn't say a word. She was wearing some sort of cloak thing, but nothing out of the ordinary. She proceeded to take out a piece of chalk and draw a large pentagram on the wooden floor, still not saying a word. Then she took five white candles and placed them at the points of the pentagram and one red candle in the middle, and lit them all... still just smiling nicely and not saying anything as we continued our chat, though the witnesses were giving each other odd looks. Then my girlfriend took off her cloak, and being bare ass naked underneath it, began dancing in and around the candles, chanting. (Still smiling nicely.) The Jehovah's Witnesses, with eyes like saucers, immediately got up and walked out the door. Although we saw them on the street going door to door every week, then never once came back to our door in the four years I lived in that house. Too bad, too, as I wanted to get their take on a new religion I was planning.

 

 

You still do this kind of stuff?
 

[Jdiddy]

if I have to put my trousers on to come to the door, you better be holding a pizza... 

 

I find if you constantly answer the door naked, eventually call girls will be the only ones knocking, often holding the pizza i requested alongside them

 

Give it a try :D

[Ulysses G.]

I mostly like the missionaries here. They are usually pleasant and happy and, if we talk about religion, they don't push it very hard. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe they can just tell that there is no hope of convincing me. 

[sfokevin]

I used to live in San Francisco and they sent their young men in stiff white shirts there to prosthelytize... 

 

But they seem to lose more than they gained...  

 

 

[uptheos]

Has anyone ever conducted any meaningful research into the missionary position?

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

 

When I was in my early 30's 'Wicca' was receiving a lot of attention. My live-in girlfriend was the High Priestess of the local Wiccan coven, a very benign assembly of 'white' witches. Her group, almost entirely women in their mid to late 20's, would go down to the lake shore at midnight on Wiccan holidays (Mid-Summer's Eve, Solstice, Equinox, etc., ) take off their clothes and dance naked in the moonlight while chanting prayers to heal 'Mother Earth.' I don't know if it did any good, but it was fun to watch...

One day some Jehovah's Witnesses, two women in their 50's, came to the door wanting to tell me about their God. I wasn't doing anything important at the time and they seemed like nice people, and I figured I could tell them about my Gods too. All of them. (Truth be told, they really didn't want to hear about them...) We were sitting in the living room and they were really getting into their speeches (I was interested and they figured they had a live one,) when my girlfriend walked into the room, smiled at them nicely, but didn't say a word. She was wearing some sort of cloak thing, but nothing out of the ordinary. She proceeded to take out a piece of chalk and draw a large pentagram on the wooden floor, still not saying a word. Then she took five white candles and placed them at the points of the pentagram and one red candle in the middle, and lit them all... still just smiling nicely and not saying anything as we continued our chat, though the witnesses were giving each other odd looks. Then my girlfriend took off her cloak, and being bare ass naked underneath it, began dancing in and around the candles, chanting. (Still smiling nicely.) The Jehovah's Witnesses, with eyes like saucers, immediately got up and walked out the door. Although we saw them on the street going door to door every week, then never once came back to our door in the four years I lived in that house. Too bad, too, as I wanted to get their take on a new religion I was planning.

 

 

You still do this kind of stuff?
 

 

 

I enjoy discussing religion with people. I have some very different ideas of why we have religions, how we use religion at different stages in our lives, and how religion affects the various cultures we've lived in. Personally, I'm not particularly religious, but I am spiritual, and that works for me. I've followed the same religious philosophy since I embraced it at age 23, and it's never wavered. I can find good in most religions, although I often question the sincerity of the 'once-a-week' practitioner. Standing in a church or temple doesn't make someone holy any more than standing in a garage makes one a Volkswagen.  These missionaries are devoted to their beliefs and try to live them 24/7. I can respect that they do this even if I can't understand why they believe so fervently.  On the other hand, I don't want to listen to a canned speech of a wanna-be missionary. I think I prefer to talk with the folks in white shirts, dark trousers or skirts, who peddle around all over the world on bicycles rather than the Jehovah's Witnesses. I find them to be more down to earth in their approach, and will usually give them a few minutes of my time.

[dru2]

They come by my house 1 time a month. Very nice and decent people. Mostly Australians or Canadians.  

Doesn't hurt to talk with them for 10 minutes.

They just come for a talk and don't care if you are a christian , Buddhist or Muslim and will not try to convert you to their religion.

Enough misery on the world already , so whats wrong with a friendly talk ?

 

I don't want a friendly talk with those jerks. I want them to leave me and mine strictly alone. I want them to s*d off!
 

[HooHaa]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 

or not. i admire someone who does good. 

i dont admire "good works" as a means to convert.

[sustento]

I mostly like the missionaries here. They are usually pleasant and happy and, if we talk about religion, they don't push it very hard. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe they can just tell that there is no hope of convincing me. 

They know you're beyond redemption 

[mizztraveller]

What if the hokey cokey really is what it's all about ...

[northernjohn]

They come by my house 1 time a month. Very nice and decent people. Mostly Australians or Canadians.  

Doesn't hurt to talk with them for 10 minutes.

They just come for a talk and don't care if you are a christian , Buddhist or Muslim and will not try to convert you to their religion.

Enough misery on the world already , so whats wrong with a friendly talk ?

 

Every missionary that came to my place tried to convert me to their brand of belief. The Catholic Priest in are parish was telling me that the JW even tried to convert him.

 

Just received an e mail last week from a cousin of mine who is a missionary. He mentioned the city's he had been to in China and also Taipei at the time of the mailing he was in Hong Kong. I didn't say any thing about only going to the big cities that were also tourist friendly.

 

Having had some experience in a Village in Issan with no Television and some experience in the Burmese refuge camps I suggested to him that they would give him a better idea of what a country was like than just big cities. Haven't heard back from him.

 

What kind of a visa do these people get?

[northernjohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

Although I do not hold any religious beliefs, I regret that this thread seems to invite "missionary bashing." which has too often been a "sport" among many posters on Thai Visa Chiang Mai.

 

OP mentioned two groups in his post, one (The Family International) clearly a fringe group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_International) and the other (Jehovah's Witnesses) a long-established (1870s) non-trinitarian restorationalist Christian denomination ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses ). They are very, very different in their beliefs and activities.  Both, however, are evangelical and do missionary work.

 

Maybe one or the other will knock on your door.  I personally do not desire such an intrusion, but while not practicing any belief system and finding evangelical work intrusive, I do respect the social contributions --- especially in health care and education --- of many religious groups, in Thailand as noted by Mesquito above.  The impact in Chiang Mai has been significant.  And some of them are still doing their good work.

 

Regarding his final comment, I do not share OP's concern about missionary activity, to quote him: "That might provoke a further tightening of immigration rules and regulations in the name of peace, order, and ethnic cleansing."  Thailand is very tolerant of different religious beliefs.  There is a veritable potpourri of animistic, Buddhist and other belief systems and practices. Obviously, there are lines to draw; for example, preventing the abuse of minors.

 

Fortunately, compared to many places to live plagued by door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen,  there are actually few people who knock on your gate in Chiang Mai.  Some, as related by OP, have knocked on my door, and sending them away politely is no bother.

 

 I do respect the social contributions --- especially in health care and education --- of many religious groups,

 

 

In my opinion most of that type stuff was done years ago The ones today are kind of just preaching to the choir.

Can't really recollect threads on missionaries.

 

I mostly like the missionaries here. They are usually pleasant and happy and, if we talk about religion, they don't push it very hard. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe they can just tell that there is no hope of convincing me. 

 

Yes I noticed that with a group I had met in the street we just talked a bit about this and that. I some times wonder if some of them are jobless back home and come here where they can get all their expenses paid for.

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by northernjohn

[DogNo1]

Check out Bill Mahr's take on religion. Better yet, watch his film Religulous on YouTube. Religions, while they do a lot of good also do a lot of harm. I like the pure form of Buddhism as taught by the Buddha because it is a philosophy and not a religion.

[kjhbigv]

Personally, I have zero interest in talking about any religion.....I would rather watch a Thai soap! God forbid!