What makes 'Thai-style democracy' globally palatable?

[Thanet]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

[rubl]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

Recommend a military dictatorship? Where did I do that?

[ginjag]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

Recommend a military dictatorship? Where did I do that?

Rube --it's a wind up, I went on a couple of threads to take the strain while you were busy and by god didn't I get them buzzing, you missed nothing, the same rhetoric. without you giving them fodder most would run out of customers.

Hope you typing fingers have rested and charged up for the next batch.

[ginjag]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

I think that's a lie, and you got a like for saying it.

[tbthailand]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

I think that's a lie, and you got a like for saying it.

if you think that is a lie, it explains your other posting.

Edited August 15, 2014 by tbthailand

[heybruce]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

[rubl]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

I think that's a lie, and you got a like for saying it.

if you think that is a lie, it explains your other posting.

Since I did not recommend a military dictatorship, it would seem that someone is indeed trying to sell us porky's, wouldn't you say?

[rubl]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

All the talks about 'but what about just an election' seems to try to distract from the Thaksin controlled, Pheu Thai led machinations which in the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election after which the democratic rules are forgotten again. "blanket amnesty" was not for the good of the Thai population, but for Thaksin and his (puppet) sister's administration.

It's like allowing Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics again because that's democratic. Hey Bruce, grow up man.

[ginjag]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

Hey bruce, if you want to take this up another level, by including other posters names I have that ability but will refrain, if you want to use my name reply to me NOT though another poster, one of your clan has already done that dirty trick today----keep it clean eh.

democracy means letting the people choose---WHO ?? PTP--Thaksin /Shin style--is not democracy, get it. you use Thai people to get your agenda rolling to their loss--again.

[tbthailand]

Coming from Holland, and being born just after WWII, what memories does a military dictatorship bring back to you? Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom.

Be grateful, and think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.

I think that's a lie, and you got a like for saying it.

if you think that is a lie, it explains your other posting.

Since I did not recommend a military dictatorship, it would seem that someone is indeed trying to sell us porky's, wouldn't you say?

no, you did the opposite and reminisced how posters promoting democracy. reminds you of your academics justifying Stalin. That has nothing to do however with the "lie" comment ... referring to

"Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom."

Now the other poster had his say on that, calling it a lie... and that explains his other posts rather succinctly.

[tbthailand]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

All the talks about 'but what about just an election' seems to try to distract from the Thaksin controlled, Pheu Thai led machinations which in the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election after which the democratic rules are forgotten again. "blanket amnesty" was not for the good of the Thai population, but for Thaksin and his (puppet) sister's administration.

It's like allowing Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics again because that's democratic. Hey Bruce, grow up man.

there you go again.

following the constitution is bad

military coups are good

thaksin is the problem

pheu Thai were undemocratic

ignore the rest of the facts

yeah, before you come back again with "where did I say ..." you are actually passive aggressive about the "military coups are good" part, but who could miss it?

[tbthailand]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

Hey bruce, if you want to take this up another level, by including other posters names I have that ability but will refrain, if you want to use my name reply to me NOT though another poster, one of your clan has already done that dirty trick today----keep it clean eh.

democracy means letting the people choose---WHO ?? PTP--Thaksin /Shin style--is not democracy, get it. you use Thai people to get your agenda rolling to their loss--again.

claiming that democratic systems are not democratic does not make it true.

[ginjag]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

Hey bruce, if you want to take this up another level, by including other posters names I have that ability but will refrain, if you want to use my name reply to me NOT though another poster, one of your clan has already done that dirty trick today----keep it clean eh.

democracy means letting the people choose---WHO ?? PTP--Thaksin /Shin style--is not democracy, get it. you use Thai people to get your agenda rolling to their loss--again.

claiming that democratic systems are not democratic does not make it true.

Your talking gobbledegook.

Thai Thaksin style democracy is a mockery of democracy. PTP confirmed that.

[tbthailand]

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

Hey bruce, if you want to take this up another level, by including other posters names I have that ability but will refrain, if you want to use my name reply to me NOT though another poster, one of your clan has already done that dirty trick today----keep it clean eh.

democracy means letting the people choose---WHO ?? PTP--Thaksin /Shin style--is not democracy, get it. you use Thai people to get your agenda rolling to their loss--again.

claiming that democratic systems are not democratic does not make it true.

Your talking gobbledegook.

Thai Thaksin style democracy is a mockery of democracy. PTP confirmed that.

like I said ...

[Thanet]

Recommend a military dictatorship? Where did I do that?

Rube --it's a wind up, I went on a couple of threads to take the strain while you were busy and by god didn't I get them buzzing, you missed nothing, the same rhetoric. without you giving them fodder most would run out of customers.

Hope you typing fingers have rested and charged up for the next batch.

Oh dear. Your advanced years must be getting to your memory. Read some recent history, and let me know what kind of record the army has when in power here. Once you've done that, read some Plato and learn for yourself why a tyranny is more degraded system of government than a democracy.

You've been ridiculed by all and sundry in this thread for basing your arguments on mere falsehoods and refusing to answer pertinent questions that refute your position. You seem to slavishly follow one side, asking no questions of it, and accepting a censored version of the news as the truth, whereas a free press caused you to vilify the other side in the first place.

Now you are clutching at what appears to be your only friend here for support - someone who has openly renounced the free society that allowed him to survive a great tyranny perpetrated against his mother land not long before he was born. The defeat of this tyranny by those who value freedom allowed his parents to survive, and for him to be born, and to travel abroad and express this views here freely, albeit paradoxically in support of a political system that would have prevented him from being born in the first place.

The beauty of democracy is that it allows us to have conversations like this. Think how boring it will be when we are prohibited from doing so.

All of 33 years you say you've been here, and yet you think the army is clean? I don't believe you are who you say you are.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Thanet

[ginjag]

Recommend a military dictatorship? Where did I do that?

Rube --it's a wind up, I went on a couple of threads to take the strain while you were busy and by god didn't I get them buzzing, you missed nothing, the same rhetoric. without you giving them fodder most would run out of customers.

Hope you typing fingers have rested and charged up for the next batch.

Oh dear. Your advanced years must be getting to your memory. Read some recent history, and let me know what kind of record the army has when in power here. Once you've done that, read some Plato and learn for yourself why a tyranny is more degraded system of government than a democracy.

You've been ridiculed by all and sundry in this thread for basing your arguments on mere falsehoods and refusing to answer pertinent questions that refute your position. You seem to slavishly follow one side, asking no questions of it, and accepting a censored version of the news as the truth, whereas a free press caused you to vilify the other side in the first place.

Now you are clutching at what appears to be your only friend here for support - someone who has openly renounced the free society that allowed him to survive a great tyranny perpetrated against his mother land not long before he was born. The defeat of this tyranny by those who value freedom allowed his parents to survive, and for him to be born, and to travel abroad and express this views here freely, albeit paradoxically in support of a political system that would have prevented him from being born in the first place.

The beauty of democracy is that it allows us to have conversations like this. Think how boring it will be when we are prohibited from doing so.

All of 33 years you say you've been here, and yet you think the army is clean? I don't believe you are who you say you are.

What a flaming saga, cut out the personal bits, my age is not your business.

Because of this my reply is short and sweet---- Past army rule I do not give a fig about.

Your agenda I do not give a fig about.

Your bad manners I give a fig about.

Your stupid comment about one and only friend for support JOKE. look how many support you and your rhetoric, and look how many are quite calm about how Thailand is at this minute. You have a strange % view of who is who.

in a few months we here on TVF are just being hit by pro Thaksin -anti army rhetoric, and it is spoiling the fun on this forum. You don't care you along with the few are relentless. Soon you will be on the forum alone with no one to argue with. So many are not here, the good ones that very rarely touched political topics are drifting away, an opinion is fine, but attacking people that are not being bothered by the army is crazy.

Do not bother any more, you can hog it with your agenda I'm out of here sick to hell with your clan.

I hold the view now that most persons in Thailand are comfortable with things now more than the last 3 years speaks volumes, if you think different you are a lost soul.

[Thanet]

Oh dear. Your advanced years must be getting to your memory. Read some recent history, and let me know what kind of record the army has when in power here. Once you've done that, read some Plato and learn for yourself why a tyranny is more degraded system of government than a democracy.

You've been ridiculed by all and sundry in this thread for basing your arguments on mere falsehoods and refusing to answer pertinent questions that refute your position. You seem to slavishly follow one side, asking no questions of it, and accepting a censored version of the news as the truth, whereas a free press caused you to vilify the other side in the first place.

Now you are clutching at what appears to be your only friend here for support - someone who has openly renounced the free society that allowed him to survive a great tyranny perpetrated against his mother land not long before he was born. The defeat of this tyranny by those who value freedom allowed his parents to survive, and for him to be born, and to travel abroad and express this views here freely, albeit paradoxically in support of a political system that would have prevented him from being born in the first place.

The beauty of democracy is that it allows us to have conversations like this. Think how boring it will be when we are prohibited from doing so.

All of 33 years you say you've been here, and yet you think the army is clean? I don't believe you are who you say you are.

What a flaming saga, cut out the personal bits, my age is not your business.

Because of this my reply is short and sweet---- Past army rule I do not give a fig about.

Your agenda I do not give a fig about.

Your bad manners I give a fig about.

Your stupid comment about one and only friend for support JOKE. look how many support you and your rhetoric, and look how many are quite calm about how Thailand is at this minute. You have a strange % view of who is who.

in a few months we here on TVF are just being hit by pro Thaksin -anti army rhetoric, and it is spoiling the fun on this forum. You don't care you along with the few are relentless. Soon you will be on the forum alone with no one to argue with. So many are not here, the good ones that very rarely touched political topics are drifting away, an opinion is fine, but attacking people that are not being bothered by the army is crazy.

Do not bother any more, you can hog it with your agenda I'm out of here sick to hell with your clan.

I hold the view now that most persons in Thailand are comfortable with things now more than the last 3 years speaks volumes, if you think different you are a lost soul.

That's fine. If you really are out of here like you promise in your message above, well goodbye then. Please remember to close the door on your way out.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Thanet

[ginjag]

Oh dear. Your advanced years must be getting to your memory. Read some recent history, and let me know what kind of record the army has when in power here. Once you've done that, read some Plato and learn for yourself why a tyranny is more degraded system of government than a democracy.

You've been ridiculed by all and sundry in this thread for basing your arguments on mere falsehoods and refusing to answer pertinent questions that refute your position. You seem to slavishly follow one side, asking no questions of it, and accepting a censored version of the news as the truth, whereas a free press caused you to vilify the other side in the first place.

Now you are clutching at what appears to be your only friend here for support - someone who has openly renounced the free society that allowed him to survive a great tyranny perpetrated against his mother land not long before he was born. The defeat of this tyranny by those who value freedom allowed his parents to survive, and for him to be born, and to travel abroad and express this views here freely, albeit paradoxically in support of a political system that would have prevented him from being born in the first place.

The beauty of democracy is that it allows us to have conversations like this. Think how boring it will be when we are prohibited from doing so.

All of 33 years you say you've been here, and yet you think the army is clean? I don't believe you are who you say you are.

What a flaming saga, cut out the personal bits, my age is not your business.

Because of this my reply is short and sweet---- Past army rule I do not give a fig about.

Your agenda I do not give a fig about.

Your bad manners I give a fig about.

Your stupid comment about one and only friend for support JOKE. look how many support you and your rhetoric, and look how many are quite calm about how Thailand is at this minute. You have a strange % view of who is who.

in a few months we here on TVF are just being hit by pro Thaksin -anti army rhetoric, and it is spoiling the fun on this forum. You don't care you along with the few are relentless. Soon you will be on the forum alone with no one to argue with. So many are not here, the good ones that very rarely touched political topics are drifting away, an opinion is fine, but attacking people that are not being bothered by the army is crazy.

Do not bother any more, you can hog it with your agenda I'm out of here sick to hell with your clan.

I hold the view now that most persons in Thailand are comfortable with things now more than the last 3 years speaks volumes, if you think different you are a lost soul.

That;s fine. If you are out of here like you promise in your message above, well goodbye then, and please close the door on your way out.

Is that an order, thought you liked freedom of movement speech. good riddance to you poor losers, have fun on your recruiting new clan members and a re grouping of your disheveled party.

[Thanet]

Oh dear. Your advanced years must be getting to your memory. Read some recent history, and let me know what kind of record the army has when in power here. Once you've done that, read some Plato and learn for yourself why a tyranny is more degraded system of government than a democracy.

You've been ridiculed by all and sundry in this thread for basing your arguments on mere falsehoods and refusing to answer pertinent questions that refute your position. You seem to slavishly follow one side, asking no questions of it, and accepting a censored version of the news as the truth, whereas a free press caused you to vilify the other side in the first place.

Now you are clutching at what appears to be your only friend here for support - someone who has openly renounced the free society that allowed him to survive a great tyranny perpetrated against his mother land not long before he was born. The defeat of this tyranny by those who value freedom allowed his parents to survive, and for him to be born, and to travel abroad and express this views here freely, albeit paradoxically in support of a political system that would have prevented him from being born in the first place.

The beauty of democracy is that it allows us to have conversations like this. Think how boring it will be when we are prohibited from doing so.

All of 33 years you say you've been here, and yet you think the army is clean? I don't believe you are who you say you are.

What a flaming saga, cut out the personal bits, my age is not your business.

Because of this my reply is short and sweet---- Past army rule I do not give a fig about.

Your agenda I do not give a fig about.

Your bad manners I give a fig about.

Your stupid comment about one and only friend for support JOKE. look how many support you and your rhetoric, and look how many are quite calm about how Thailand is at this minute. You have a strange % view of who is who.

in a few months we here on TVF are just being hit by pro Thaksin -anti army rhetoric, and it is spoiling the fun on this forum. You don't care you along with the few are relentless. Soon you will be on the forum alone with no one to argue with. So many are not here, the good ones that very rarely touched political topics are drifting away, an opinion is fine, but attacking people that are not being bothered by the army is crazy.

Do not bother any more, you can hog it with your agenda I'm out of here sick to hell with your clan.

I hold the view now that most persons in Thailand are comfortable with things now more than the last 3 years speaks volumes, if you think different you are a lost soul.

That;s fine. If you are out of here like you promise in your message above, well goodbye then, and please close the door on your way out.

Is that an order, thought you liked freedom of movement speech. good riddance to you poor losers, have fun on your recruiting new clan members and a re grouping of your disheveled party.

Heh heh - caught you in another fib there. You declared that you would be gone, as if washing your hands of all of us piteous people who disagreed with your insight.

You said above >>> I'm out of here sick to hell with your clan

And now you're back again so soon, after only a few minutes? Why?

Edited August 15, 2014 by Thanet

[heybruce]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

All the talks about 'but what about just an election' seems to try to distract from the Thaksin controlled, Pheu Thai led machinations which in the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election after which the democratic rules are forgotten again. "blanket amnesty" was not for the good of the Thai population, but for Thaksin and his (puppet) sister's administration.

It's like allowing Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics again because that's democratic. Hey Bruce, grow up man.

In other words the PTP kept winning elections and that made them undemocratic. Just like Silvio Berlusconi. I never though Silvio B. was a good leader but I never advocated a military coup for Italy. He trying to get back into politics and seems to have gotten past many (all?) of the legal obstacles, and if he's the one the majority of Italian voters choose then he should be allowed back into office. Or do you think Italy would be better of with a coup and ruled by a military junta?

"...the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election..."

By that I assume you mean that wealth and power have traditionally been held in Bangkok, which left a wide open door for Thaksin to win votes by promising a better distribution of government services and spending http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report. Amazingly, 72% of government investment in Bangkok in 2012 represented a significant reduction, before 2000 the figure was closer to 90%. Here's the bad news, that wide open door is still wide open, the winners of the future elections will be those who promise a better distribution of government resources to the under-served minority. Since the Democrats and military want wealth and power to remain in Bangkok, they will do everything they can to prevent real democracy that serves all Thais.

"grow up"? Does using logic and facts from reference sources make me seem immature?

[heybruce]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

Hey bruce, if you want to take this up another level, by including other posters names I have that ability but will refrain, if you want to use my name reply to me NOT though another poster, one of your clan has already done that dirty trick today----keep it clean eh.

democracy means letting the people choose---WHO ?? PTP--Thaksin /Shin style--is not democracy, get it. you use Thai people to get your agenda rolling to their loss--again.

I stated that you assume either the junta or Thaksin will rule Thailand, and you end your reply by saying the only alternative to the current junta is "PTP--Thaksin /Shin style". Does that mean you agree with me?

[heybruce]

Oh dear. Your advanced years must be getting to your memory. Read some recent history, and let me know what kind of record the army has when in power here. Once you've done that, read some Plato and learn for yourself why a tyranny is more degraded system of government than a democracy.

You've been ridiculed by all and sundry in this thread for basing your arguments on mere falsehoods and refusing to answer pertinent questions that refute your position. You seem to slavishly follow one side, asking no questions of it, and accepting a censored version of the news as the truth, whereas a free press caused you to vilify the other side in the first place.

Now you are clutching at what appears to be your only friend here for support - someone who has openly renounced the free society that allowed him to survive a great tyranny perpetrated against his mother land not long before he was born. The defeat of this tyranny by those who value freedom allowed his parents to survive, and for him to be born, and to travel abroad and express this views here freely, albeit paradoxically in support of a political system that would have prevented him from being born in the first place.

The beauty of democracy is that it allows us to have conversations like this. Think how boring it will be when we are prohibited from doing so.

All of 33 years you say you've been here, and yet you think the army is clean? I don't believe you are who you say you are.

What a flaming saga, cut out the personal bits, my age is not your business.

Because of this my reply is short and sweet---- Past army rule I do not give a fig about.

Your agenda I do not give a fig about.

Your bad manners I give a fig about.

Your stupid comment about one and only friend for support JOKE. look how many support you and your rhetoric, and look how many are quite calm about how Thailand is at this minute. You have a strange % view of who is who.

in a few months we here on TVF are just being hit by pro Thaksin -anti army rhetoric, and it is spoiling the fun on this forum. You don't care you along with the few are relentless. Soon you will be on the forum alone with no one to argue with. So many are not here, the good ones that very rarely touched political topics are drifting away, an opinion is fine, but attacking people that are not being bothered by the army is crazy.

Do not bother any more, you can hog it with your agenda I'm out of here sick to hell with your clan.

I hold the view now that most persons in Thailand are comfortable with things now more than the last 3 years speaks volumes, if you think different you are a lost soul.

You leave yourself so open I can't resist.

"Past army rule I do not give a fig about."

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.--George Santayana

[rubl]

I think that's a lie, and you got a like for saying it.

if you think that is a lie, it explains your other posting.

Since I did not recommend a military dictatorship, it would seem that someone is indeed trying to sell us porky's, wouldn't you say?

no, you did the opposite and reminisced how posters promoting democracy. reminds you of your academics justifying Stalin. That has nothing to do however with the "lie" comment ... referring to

"Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom."

Now the other poster had his say on that, calling it a lie... and that explains his other posts rather succinctly.

Oh come on chap, try to keeps things a bit straight, will you?

The 'lie' referred to ' think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.'.

Furthermore it's not 'promoting democracy', but 'promoting democracy as Thailand had it', also it's not 'my' academics, but 'academics'. like the British academic who died a few months ago. The 'Hungarian uprising' squashed by the socialist worker's armies needed just as much zigzagging as you and a few other posters display here.

Of course that's assuming you're serious and convinced about what you write rather than giving the impression of just trying to annoy or 'wind-up' other posters. IMHO.

[rubl]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

All the talks about 'but what about just an election' seems to try to distract from the Thaksin controlled, Pheu Thai led machinations which in the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election after which the democratic rules are forgotten again. "blanket amnesty" was not for the good of the Thai population, but for Thaksin and his (puppet) sister's administration.

It's like allowing Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics again because that's democratic. Hey Bruce, grow up man.

there you go again.

following the constitution is bad

military coups are good

thaksin is the problem

pheu Thai were undemocratic

ignore the rest of the facts

yeah, before you come back again with "where did I say ..." you are actually passive aggressive about the "military coups are good" part, but who could miss it?

Well, first of all let me thank you for your opinion.

Secondly let me just ignore all your innuendo.

Thirdly that leaves nothing.

Conclusion: please go back to the drawing board. IMHO

[rubl]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.--George Santayana

"When I return and people see I'm not out for revenge, all will like me - Thaksin S."

[tbthailand]

if you think that is a lie, it explains your other posting.

Since I did not recommend a military dictatorship, it would seem that someone is indeed trying to sell us porky's, wouldn't you say?

no, you did the opposite and reminisced how posters promoting democracy. reminds you of your academics justifying Stalin. That has nothing to do however with the "lie" comment ... referring to

"Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom."

Now the other poster had his say on that, calling it a lie... and that explains his other posts rather succinctly.

Oh come on chap, try to keeps things a bit straight, will you?

The 'lie' referred to ' think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.'.

Furthermore it's not 'promoting democracy', but 'promoting democracy as Thailand had it', also it's not 'my' academics, but 'academics'. like the British academic who died a few months ago. The 'Hungarian uprising' squashed by the socialist worker's armies needed just as much zigzagging as you and a few other posters display here.

Of course that's assuming you're serious and convinced about what you write rather than giving the impression of just trying to annoy or 'wind-up' other posters. IMHO.

grammatically, "The 'lie' referred to ' think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.'."

the statement to think cannot be considered a lie. This leave the other comments. But ask the other poster - maybe he was confused?

[rubl]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.

Just like ginjag,you assume that either the military will rule or Thaksin will rule. I think the Shinwatra family was on a steep decline in influence, though no doubt outrage over the coup will give them new support. That's not really important, democracy means letting the people choose, even if you disagree with their choice.

All the talks about 'but what about just an election' seems to try to distract from the Thaksin controlled, Pheu Thai led machinations which in the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election after which the democratic rules are forgotten again. "blanket amnesty" was not for the good of the Thai population, but for Thaksin and his (puppet) sister's administration.

It's like allowing Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics again because that's democratic. Hey Bruce, grow up man.

In other words the PTP kept winning elections and that made them undemocratic. Just like Silvio Berlusconi. I never though Silvio B. was a good leader but I never advocated a military coup for Italy. He trying to get back into politics and seems to have gotten past many (all?) of the legal obstacles, and if he's the one the majority of Italian voters choose then he should be allowed back into office. Or do you think Italy would be better of with a coup and ruled by a military junta?

"...the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election..."

By that I assume you mean that wealth and power have traditionally been held in Bangkok, which left a wide open door for Thaksin to win votes by promising a better distribution of government services and spending http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report. Amazingly, 72% of government investment in Bangkok in 2012 represented a significant reduction, before 2000 the figure was closer to 90%. Here's the bad news, that wide open door is still wide open, the winners of the future elections will be those who promise a better distribution of government resources to the under-served minority. Since the Democrats and military want wealth and power to remain in Bangkok, they will do everything they can to prevent real democracy that serves all Thais.

"grow up"? Does using logic and facts from reference sources make me seem immature?

Using logic and facts out of context makes you seem insincere. talking about 'coup bad, return to democracy in Thailand' seem to show either immaturity or lack of knowledge or just plain utter stupidity and a program of returning Thailand to a state of chaos which the Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led Yingluck Administration was fostering by trying to push through a blanket amnesty bill for Thaksin's last two years in/out of office and Yingluck's first two years. All for one, forget about the rest of Thailand.

BTW 'under-served minority' ?

PS any idea what percentage of GDP can be attributed to the regions outside Bangkok area, like NorthEast, Central Plains or South ?

[rubl]

Since I did not recommend a military dictatorship, it would seem that someone is indeed trying to sell us porky's, wouldn't you say?

no, you did the opposite and reminisced how posters promoting democracy. reminds you of your academics justifying Stalin. That has nothing to do however with the "lie" comment ... referring to

"Holland wouldn't even exist if democratic people hadn't fought for its freedom."

Now the other poster had his say on that, calling it a lie... and that explains his other posts rather succinctly.

Oh come on chap, try to keeps things a bit straight, will you?

The 'lie' referred to ' think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.'.

Furthermore it's not 'promoting democracy', but 'promoting democracy as Thailand had it', also it's not 'my' academics, but 'academics'. like the British academic who died a few months ago. The 'Hungarian uprising' squashed by the socialist worker's armies needed just as much zigzagging as you and a few other posters display here.

Of course that's assuming you're serious and convinced about what you write rather than giving the impression of just trying to annoy or 'wind-up' other posters. IMHO.

grammatically, "The 'lie' referred to ' think before you recommend a military dictatorship for someone else's country.'."

the statement to think cannot be considered a lie. This leave the other comments. But ask the other poster - maybe he was confused?

Grammatically, implied and effectively the 'lie' referred to me being told I recommend military dictatorship for someone else's country.

As I didn't recommend such, someone telling I did lied or maybe on purpose tried to mis interpret in order to annoy and bait me into 'flaring up'.

IMHO and all that, at 7AM on a nice Saturday morning.

[heybruce]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.--George Santayana

"When I return and people see I'm not out for revenge, all will like me - Thaksin S."

Editing other people's posts again. You're developing quite a reputation for taking things out of context in a blatant manner.

[heybruce]

All the talks about 'but what about just an election' seems to try to distract from the Thaksin controlled, Pheu Thai led machinations which in the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election after which the democratic rules are forgotten again. "blanket amnesty" was not for the good of the Thai population, but for Thaksin and his (puppet) sister's administration.

It's like allowing Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics again because that's democratic. Hey Bruce, grow up man.

In other words the PTP kept winning elections and that made them undemocratic. Just like Silvio Berlusconi. I never though Silvio B. was a good leader but I never advocated a military coup for Italy. He trying to get back into politics and seems to have gotten past many (all?) of the legal obstacles, and if he's the one the majority of Italian voters choose then he should be allowed back into office. Or do you think Italy would be better of with a coup and ruled by a military junta?

"...the Thai social setup leads to undemocratic figures being election..."

By that I assume you mean that wealth and power have traditionally been held in Bangkok, which left a wide open door for Thaksin to win votes by promising a better distribution of government services and spending http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report. Amazingly, 72% of government investment in Bangkok in 2012 represented a significant reduction, before 2000 the figure was closer to 90%. Here's the bad news, that wide open door is still wide open, the winners of the future elections will be those who promise a better distribution of government resources to the under-served minority. Since the Democrats and military want wealth and power to remain in Bangkok, they will do everything they can to prevent real democracy that serves all Thais.

"grow up"? Does using logic and facts from reference sources make me seem immature?

Using logic and facts out of context makes you seem insincere. talking about 'coup bad, return to democracy in Thailand' seem to show either immaturity or lack of knowledge or just plain utter stupidity and a program of returning Thailand to a state of chaos which the Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led Yingluck Administration was fostering by trying to push through a blanket amnesty bill for Thaksin's last two years in/out of office and Yingluck's first two years. All for one, forget about the rest of Thailand.

BTW 'under-served minority' ?

PS any idea what percentage of GDP can be attributed to the regions outside Bangkok area, like NorthEast, Central Plains or South ?

Yes, I should have written "under-served majority". Thank you for catching that.

As far as out of context facts, the fact is that the state of chaos didn't begin until Suthep led his mob into the streets staging protests that exceeded all legal limits, and blocking elections using physical intimidation and force.

The amnesty bill was attempted, failed, and was dropped. You need a better reason than that for a coup.

"PS any idea what percentage of GDP can be attributed to the regions outside Bangkok area, like NorthEast, Central Plains or South ?"

Clearly you didn't look at the referenced link:

"Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures."

Also:

"Economic growth and a corresponding improvement in access to and quality of public services has been concentrated in Bangkok and the central region, leaving significant deficiencies in other parts of the country including the North and Northeast and contributing to unequal human development outcomes. Addressing these issues will be a key step in Thailand's continued development towards high-income country status."

GDP per capita in Bangkok is higher than in the rest of Thailand, but not high enough to warrant the gross disparities in government investment. Also, it was the greater government investment in schools, clinics, and modern infrastructure in general that boosted Bangkok's GDP. The rest of the country, with the majority of the Thai population, wants the same investment and benefits. As I wrote earlier, the parties Thaksin led or supported kept winning elections by shifting government spending where it was needed most, and future politicians will win elections in the same manner. No amount of military mandated education is going to change that.

The World Bank Report also provides links to interesting supporting documents, and I'm sure you'd agree the they are a more credible source than me. You can get a region by region answer to your question on page 32 at this link: http://www-wds.worldbank.org/external/default/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/2012/06/20/000333038_20120620014639/Rendered/PDF/674860ESW0P1180019006020120RB0EDITS.pdf

Edited August 16, 2014 by heybruce