QROPS - who to use?

[JolyonB]

Wordchild - easier said that done!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Worth noting, that in fairness, in addition to the myriad of "carpetbaggers" here, there are some very knowledgeable people on pensions and investments based in Thailand, as well as regulated. Unfortunately most expats don't have the experience to sort the wheat from the chaff, as we all have strengths and weaknesses in different fields. Even among the knowledgeable Thai advisors though, they often put their own interests before yours, particularly on commissions. It's sort of ironic that often by the stage you can sort the decent ones out, you no longer need them in the first place

They are all crooks in Thailand.

No wheat, all chaff.

The moment the word "QRoP" or "Offshore" comes out of their mouth, they have given themselves away.

Offshore includes, IoM, Gibraltar, Guernsey, etc.

Edited August 29, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[wordchild]

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Wordchild - easier said that done!

Very true! that's why I said in one of my earlier posts if you want a good value and long term beneficial Qrop you have to put in a great deal of legwork yourself. IFA,s (even onshore) will not be much help unless you are already armed with a great deal of knowledge when you start to talk to them. Offshore IFA,s (in the main) only seem to offer expensive structures (eg portfolio bonds) which also often have the effect of locking you in to their inflated charges for many years. I have a Qrop myself and am very happy with it but as others have said in this thread a UK based SIPP maybe a better solution for many.

Edited August 29, 2014 by wordchild

[JolyonB]

Hello Wordchild

Since you have already established a QROP are you able to put me in contact with someone appropriate since I

have already done the leg work bbut I don't like the commission structure. I need someone on a fee basis

Thanks

[wordchild]

Hello Wordchild

Since you have already established a QROP are you able to put me in contact with someone appropriate since I

have already done the leg work bbut I don't like the commission structure. I need someone on a fee basis

Thanks

i wouldnt particularly recommend the guy i used; all he did was conduct the final transfer out of my sipp into the qrop (i needed an IFA for this bit and hired him for a fairly nominal pre agreed fee). everything else i had sorted out myself (with some help from a UK accountancy firm) before he got involved.

[AyG]

TD direct say on their website that you can open a SIPP account as a non resident (as long as you have an existing UK scheme to tranfer) also might be worth trying Charles Stanley they certainly used to allow non residents to open SIPPs .

Only non-residents living in Europe can now open an account with TD Direct. They changed their policy a few months ago.

In fact, none of the non-advised platforms (with the possible exception of Barclays) will open a new account for an expat living outside Europe.

And for the advised platforms, you have to have a Financial Adviser to open a new account. No UK IFA will accept you as a new client following the RDR (and existing clients are being dropped by their IFA), leaving you at the mercy of dodgy offshore financial advisers who will push products which generate unnecessary commission for them such as portfolio bonds.

The RDR has left expats in an impossible situation.

[wordchild]

Hello Wordchild

Since you have already established a QROP are you able to put me in contact with someone appropriate since I

have already done the leg work bbut I don't like the commission structure. I need someone on a fee basis

Thanks

in focusing on finding an IFA you maybe going about this the wrong way; the key service you need with a QROP is a good pension trustee/administrator either in the jurisdiction that you want to base the fund in or one who can offer a multi-jurisdiction service. find one or two of these first and get an understanding of their charges and you will be in a much stronger position to negotiate the fee and other terms with an IFA for whatever you need him to do; it maybe even that the pension trustee can recommend an IFA to you. Personally I would never use an IFA for investment advice (most don't have a clue) so if you don't use him for that you just need him to help with the technical aspect of the transfer (which is pretty basic stuff). If you feel you don't want to have anything to do with the investment side yourself outsource this to a discretionary portfolio manager at say a private client stockbroker (likely much better than using an IFA); or just follow the fund advice from say a Hargreaves Lansdown. (obviously for regulatory reasons you would need to pre-agree how this would work with the pension trustees).

Not all trustees will deal directly with the end client but there are many that will. basically that's pretty much what I did.

Edited August 30, 2014 by wordchild

[johnnort]

Don`t know if this is too late for this post but here goes anyway. I am a 61 year old Brit with a sizable pension pot, the lower hundreds of thousands, do not intend, unless circumstances alter, to invest in a pension until 65 years old but my issue is that I wish my wife to continue receiving income after I have kicked the bucket. The facility is there with an annuity but the income I receive while alive is reduced quite considerably plus I have been an expat for decades and would not want to pay the UK rate of tax. My wifes income would be 50% of this. I realise I can change this percentage but 50% is what it would be.

So to safeguard a livable income for my wife and receive a tidy sum for myself while alive which way does one turn? Annuity or Sips and pay UK taxes or a QROPS? The question is put for the moment; I am aware of the imminent changes, whatever they may be!

Thanks!

[GuestHouse]

Don`t know if this is too late for this post but here goes anyway. I am a 61 year old Brit with a sizable pension pot, the lower hundreds of thousands, do not intend, unless circumstances alter, to invest in a pension until 65 years old but my issue is that I wish my wife to continue receiving income after I have kicked the bucket. The facility is there with an annuity but the income I receive while alive is reduced quite considerably plus I have been an expat for decades and would not want to pay the UK rate of tax. My wifes income would be 50% of this. I realise I can change this percentage but 50% is what it would be.

So to safeguard a livable income for my wife and receive a tidy sum for myself while alive which way does one turn? Annuity or Sips and pay UK taxes or a QROPS? The question is put for the moment; I am aware of the imminent changes, whatever they may be!

Thanks!

You are 61 and intend to retire at age 65, so you have four years to think about this.

Points to note:

The UK tax threshold has risen significantly during the past parliament and there are pledges from all parties to raise the threshold further - All parties have realised that lifting the tax threshold helps those on low incomes without the expense of managing welfare payments.

A tax threshold of GBP12000 is currently being discussed.

You may find that by time the time you have taken a tax free lump sum (25% of your pot) and looked at income draw-down options you are left with very little residual tax to pay.

Taking out a QROPs may, if the income ratio between your UK income (state pension) and QROPS crosses the threshold being proposed, remove your right to a UK tax code. That would place all your UK income subject to tax.

QROPS will be more expensive to manage than a UK based SIPP, how much more expensive depends on who arranges it for you - the worst case (and you must consider the worst case) QROPS charges can deplete your pension.

My advice (as always) QROPS might be right for you, but do not rush into the decision and do not take out a QROPS until absolutely the last moment - things can change in the meant time.

Spend the time you have before retirement researching AND DO NOT MAKE ANY COMMITMENT.

I explicitly advice against you taking on the services of any Thailand based financial advisors - regardless of if they tell you they are advising for UK based companies of funds.

[AyG]

Don`t know if this is too late for this post but here goes anyway. I am a 61 year old Brit with a sizable pension pot, the lower hundreds of thousands, do not intend, unless circumstances alter, to invest in a pension until 65 years old but my issue is that I wish my wife to continue receiving income after I have kicked the bucket. The facility is there with an annuity but the income I receive while alive is reduced quite considerably plus I have been an expat for decades and would not want to pay the UK rate of tax. My wifes income would be 50% of this. I realise I can change this percentage but 50% is what it would be.

So to safeguard a livable income for my wife and receive a tidy sum for myself while alive which way does one turn? Annuity or Sips and pay UK taxes or a QROPS? The question is put for the moment; I am aware of the imminent changes, whatever they may be!

Thanks!

Better to ask this question once the full details of the changes are published.

As things stand at the moment QROPS would almost certainly be the way to go to avoid UK taxes. The size of your pension pot certainly warrants it. Your wife would inherit the lot or almost all of it (depending on jurisdiction) and could then put it in something easy for her to manage such as a fixed deposit account. She'd just need to liaise with the QROPS provider to arrange the transfer. You could leave detailed written instructions about the procedure with your will. That's what I've done.

[denby45]

TD direct say on their website that you can open a SIPP account as a non resident (as long as you have an existing UK scheme to tranfer) also might be worth trying Charles Stanley they certainly used to allow non residents to open SIPPs .

From TD Direct website.

Who is a TD SIPP for?

SIPPs can be held and invested in by any UK resident (or anyone who has been in the last five years) who is over the age of 18.

Please explain

Den

OOPS I see this has already been answered by post #96. My bad.

Edited September 1, 2014 by denby45

[wordchild]

Wow! its like Osborne has really got it in for the offshore QROPs industry. With his latest proposal; ie the abolition of the " death tax" on pensions (from april next year ), he has removed yet another reason for people to move their fund to a QROP. There are still some benefits but, for most people , unless you have a very significant pension pot, the reasons to move it are much diminished. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11127534/Pension-death-tax-your-questions-answered.html

Edited September 30, 2014 by wordchild

[Pormax]

The abolition of the 55% tax on your pension fund when you die and pass this on to your next of kin etc is a good thing and makes the QROPS a little less inviting to many.

.

However, if i read the announcement on this correct, though the 55% tax will be abolished there will still be the lower rate of tax to be paid. This currently is 20% but if it takes the recipient of your fund over a certain yearly income, bringing them into the higher tax bracket, this could rise considerably.

In my view QROPS is best suited for those in drawdown on their pension funds especially if the yearly total fund withdrawal takes them over the current yearly Personal Tax Free allowance. Also if as rumoured, strongly I may add, the PTFA is removed or has limitations as to where your earnings are generated, for those now not considered UK resident, then the tax saving alone looks very inviting.

Bear in mind that the tax on Government paid pensions such as from the Armed Forces, Civil Servants and Retirement Pension must be taxed in the country from where they originate. A lot of countries have a Dual Tax agreement but they are not all the same. In Thailand you cannot opt to pay tax on your government paid pensions here even though UK and Thailand have a Dual Tax agreement. However in some countries this is possible such as in Cyprus where I was living before I came to Thailand.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

In my view QROPS is best suited for those in drawdown on their pension funds especially if the yearly total fund withdrawal takes them over the current yearly Personal Tax Free allowance. Also if as rumoured, strongly I may add, the PTFA is removed or has limitations as to where your earnings are generated, for those now not considered UK resident, then the tax saving alone looks very inviting.

And in my view QRoPs are best suited to the crooks that sell them.

Edited September 30, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Captbonio]

The abolition of the 55% tax on your pension fund when you die and pass this on to your next of kin etc is a good thing and makes the QROPS a little less inviting to many.

.

However, if i read the announcement on this correct, though the 55% tax will be abolished there will still be the lower rate of tax to be paid. This currently is 20% but if it takes the recipient of your fund over a certain yearly income, bringing them into the higher tax bracket, this could rise considerably.

In my view QROPS is best suited for those in drawdown on their pension funds especially if the yearly total fund withdrawal takes them over the current yearly Personal Tax Free allowance. Also if as rumoured, strongly I may add, the PTFA is removed or has limitations as to where your earnings are generated, for those now not considered UK resident, then the tax saving alone looks very inviting.

Bear in mind that the tax on Government paid pensions such as from the Armed Forces, Civil Servants and Retirement Pension must be taxed in the country from where they originate. A lot of countries have a Dual Tax agreement but they are not all the same. In Thailand you cannot opt to pay tax on your government paid pensions here even though UK and Thailand have a Dual Tax agreement. However in some countries this is possible such as in Cyprus where I was living before I came to Thailand.

I know you are fairly determined to move to QROPS, and I understand your reasons for doing so, but I have to suggest you take longer to decide, or only move a small portion into it. Osbornes move is definitely designed to keep money on shore and I can see why he did it. Personally, and I am no expert, but I think that the outcome of that decision is that a lot of those in the UK on defined benefits pensions will now take them out and move them to SIPP;s .I may be wrong of course, but I have no idea what that will lead to afterwards.

There are arguments for QROPS, and I will more than likely move into one when there is a bigger field of competition from the companies that provide them , their comission struture is transparent, and there is better financial regulation in the jursdictions that offer them . Sadly that is probably some time away, but if people start to move away from their defined pensions, then I think there will be more who consider other optoins too , such as QROPS.

Right now the QROPS products are not financially efficient mainly down to the highly corrosive comissions and fees which kill your returns (if there are any)despite the obvious tax benefits. As detailed by the many on here, and its not just those who have nothing better to do, but those who have had first hand experience, there are too many negatives to make that decision yet. I am waiting for a better time. I really think you should too.

[steveG]

I am 56 and am in a position to start drawing my pension. My thoughts were to take the 25% lump sum to move to Thailand next year with it as some working capital. The rest I would manage as I have as a SIPP as I have been doing over the last few years, and hopefully not have to draw any if I can find some form of income there. If I have to draw on it then so be it.

Retiring at 56 is of course achievable, but to retire and stay retired at 56 you need to have substantial capital (or assets ie houses to let) in order to support a longer retirement.

People in the 50s who have pension savings will generally have company pensions and or private pension schemes - these, for this age group, were designed to provide pension income after the age of 65 - taking an early retirement will dramatically change the sustainability on three grounds.

1. You will be drawing your pension earlier (it sounds like 8 years earlier)
2. You will no longer be contributing to your pension
3. Inflation will have longer to work its evil deeds

These three issues interact to drastically reduce pension income and the buying power of pension income - Taking a cash free lump sum will also have an effect.

It all depends of course on the size of the pension pot you have and what your expected income needs are - I'm not asking you to reveal that information and suggest you do not.

But these are issues you need to discuss with an IFA

There is also an issue of from which pension pot you will draw your tax free lump sum.

The 25% tax free lump sum is available to you on the basis of your whole pension savings (the sum of your SIP and your company pension pots). The rules on how you can take that have recently changed with the relaxing of Pension Regulations, so take advice on that.

But as a general rule, the benefits within your company pension scheme will be far better than those in your SIP. The advice is almost always that if you take a cash lump sum you should take it from the scheme with the least ancillary benefits.

You may find that your company pension allows early retirement, but again check the impact of taking it - reductions in pension income of 4% for every year you retire early are the norm - Retiring in company pension schemes 8 years early will typically incur a reduction in pension payments of 32% for the whole life of the pensioner.

I'm not saying your should not retire early, I plan to retire early myself.

Rather do spend time to get good advice.

Find out

• What your financial situation is.
• What is the impact on your pension income of retiring early.
• What is the impact on your pension income if you retire early and take a tax free lump sum.

I checked these numbers for myself and concluded that drawing any of my pension before age 60 would place my long term retirement security at risk.

I'm busy now working and stashing cash savings to fund an early 'part retirement' a period when I plan to work part time moving into full retirement at 60 when there are no penalties under my pension scheme.

These are very difficult decisions, often clouded by emotion, so do get good independent financial advice.

Hi Guesthouse

Thanks again for your very attentive reply and your attention to detail

I am really so happy to see such coherant and knowledgable advice on this forum you and a couple of others.

It is truely gratifying.

You are quite correct in most of your assumptions and yes this is not the place to go into any in depth analysis.

I find myself in a rather difficult position having had a good part of my assets decimated by divorce and that I am in a business that is coming to the end of its tenure. So this means, low assets and soon the inability to earn a decent income.

Moving to Thailand has been planned for some time and provision for it and the reasons to do so are all in place.

It may not be an option to defer taking pension early though it is of course the last thing that i want to do, so its needs must as you were.

I totally agree with all you say above about when to take pension , the benefits of a company pension and the timing of taking the cash free.

I have had advice from my long standing (and fairly useless) IFA and it was this that prompted me into looking further afield for alternatives, and this led me to QROPS.

Given what you and one other on here have advised me on, I will not go down that route, well not for the time being, and will leave it under a SIPP wrapper which had been my intention all along , untill I got swayed by the prospect of tax fee income.

My pot is not a big one, but will be enough to live on in Thailand , but no where near enough to live on here. My (new) wife and I hope to open a business when we come to Thailand and use some of the 25% portion to finance it. Im not going to risk my whole wad on it but I am up for an attempt , such is the mad and impetuous fool that I am....lets see

Appreciate all you have said to me. It is great stuff and incredibly useful. I have learnt a lot and feel very happy to have made aquaintance of some very good people on this site.

Many thanks to you

Captain

Thailand is a great place to spend money but a very difficult place for a Farang to make money. I would recommend you keep as much offshore as possible rather than investing in your "new" wife's dream business. I really recommend caution on this matter.

Hope the investment decision you make is the right one and would be very interested to get feedback. I am currently not based in UK for the past 12 years but hope to retire in T/land in a few years. I have transferred most of my UK company pensions to QROPS for better or worse (Gibraltar administration).

[Captbonio]

I am 56 and am in a position to start drawing my pension. My thoughts were to take the 25% lump sum to move to Thailand next year with it as some working capital. The rest I would manage as I have as a SIPP as I have been doing over the last few years, and hopefully not have to draw any if I can find some form of income there. If I have to draw on it then so be it.

Retiring at 56 is of course achievable, but to retire and stay retired at 56 you need to have substantial capital (or assets ie houses to let) in order to support a longer retirement.

People in the 50s who have pension savings will generally have company pensions and or private pension schemes - these, for this age group, were designed to provide pension income after the age of 65 - taking an early retirement will dramatically change the sustainability on three grounds.

1. You will be drawing your pension earlier (it sounds like 8 years earlier)
2. You will no longer be contributing to your pension
3. Inflation will have longer to work its evil deeds

These three issues interact to drastically reduce pension income and the buying power of pension income - Taking a cash free lump sum will also have an effect.

It all depends of course on the size of the pension pot you have and what your expected income needs are - I'm not asking you to reveal that information and suggest you do not.

But these are issues you need to discuss with an IFA

There is also an issue of from which pension pot you will draw your tax free lump sum.

The 25% tax free lump sum is available to you on the basis of your whole pension savings (the sum of your SIP and your company pension pots). The rules on how you can take that have recently changed with the relaxing of Pension Regulations, so take advice on that.

But as a general rule, the benefits within your company pension scheme will be far better than those in your SIP. The advice is almost always that if you take a cash lump sum you should take it from the scheme with the least ancillary benefits.

You may find that your company pension allows early retirement, but again check the impact of taking it - reductions in pension income of 4% for every year you retire early are the norm - Retiring in company pension schemes 8 years early will typically incur a reduction in pension payments of 32% for the whole life of the pensioner.

I'm not saying your should not retire early, I plan to retire early myself.

Rather do spend time to get good advice.

Find out

• What your financial situation is.
• What is the impact on your pension income of retiring early.
• What is the impact on your pension income if you retire early and take a tax free lump sum.

I checked these numbers for myself and concluded that drawing any of my pension before age 60 would place my long term retirement security at risk.

I'm busy now working and stashing cash savings to fund an early 'part retirement' a period when I plan to work part time moving into full retirement at 60 when there are no penalties under my pension scheme.

These are very difficult decisions, often clouded by emotion, so do get good independent financial advice.

Hi Guesthouse

Thanks again for your very attentive reply and your attention to detail

I am really so happy to see such coherant and knowledgable advice on this forum you and a couple of others.

It is truely gratifying.

You are quite correct in most of your assumptions and yes this is not the place to go into any in depth analysis.

I find myself in a rather difficult position having had a good part of my assets decimated by divorce and that I am in a business that is coming to the end of its tenure. So this means, low assets and soon the inability to earn a decent income.

Moving to Thailand has been planned for some time and provision for it and the reasons to do so are all in place.

It may not be an option to defer taking pension early though it is of course the last thing that i want to do, so its needs must as you were.

I totally agree with all you say above about when to take pension , the benefits of a company pension and the timing of taking the cash free.

I have had advice from my long standing (and fairly useless) IFA and it was this that prompted me into looking further afield for alternatives, and this led me to QROPS.

Given what you and one other on here have advised me on, I will not go down that route, well not for the time being, and will leave it under a SIPP wrapper which had been my intention all along , untill I got swayed by the prospect of tax fee income.

My pot is not a big one, but will be enough to live on in Thailand , but no where near enough to live on here. My (new) wife and I hope to open a business when we come to Thailand and use some of the 25% portion to finance it. Im not going to risk my whole wad on it but I am up for an attempt , such is the mad and impetuous fool that I am....lets see

Appreciate all you have said to me. It is great stuff and incredibly useful. I have learnt a lot and feel very happy to have made aquaintance of some very good people on this site.

Many thanks to you

Captain

Thailand is a great place to spend money but a very difficult place for a Farang to make money. I would recommend you keep as much offshore as possible rather than investing in your "new" wife's dream business. I really recommend caution on this matter.

Hope the investment decision you make is the right one and would be very interested to get feedback. I am currently not based in UK for the past 12 years but hope to retire in T/land in a few years. I have transferred most of my UK company pensions to QROPS for better or worse (Gibraltar administration).

Hi Steve.

Agree with what you say , and thanks for your input.

The whole exercise of moving to Thailand, dealing with the ravages of divorce, career ending, cash gone, taking pension early, SIPP or QROP, starting new business,etc etc, is as i am sure you can appreciate full of many moving parts. I have brought some of them to the attention of this forum to hear the experiences and get advice from the many who have been through some or all of the same. By and large the advice I received here and elsewhere has been great, and I have learnt a lot. Because of the volume of information has been so great it has allowed me to cherry pick what I think is right, and let me rethink about where I might have been going wrong.

There are many pitfalls with all decisions, but one decision that cannot be made is one with your eyes closed. Everyone on this forum has a story, and those who are willing to share them do so at the great benefit of all those who want to listen . I have listened and learned. What i have heard is that there are some very smart and well informed people on here who are also willing to impart their knowledge for free, but also there are many who are down on their luck and have made some terrible mistakes in their lives, some of them being that Thailand has not delivered the life they wanted and the money they had did not stretch to the levels hoped.

What I am going to do with my retirement income is not suitable for many, and as pointed out correctly on this forum, taking benefits early is not advisable. Also correctly advised is that moving money from a final salary scheme to a SIPP is not best if you want to get the best growth for said pension. Then finally, QROPS .. they have attributes as I know you can appreciate by investing in them, but there are many shady practioners within the field and you really need to know the inside story about how your money is being distributed.

My decisions have been altered partly from what I learnt on this forum and partly as I have taken more time to read, study and analyse what is available to me. I am quite hands on with regard to investing, trading, and using the various financial products available to the man on the street and was more focused on those rather than finding the correct wrapper so to speak. I am keeping the bulk of my pension in a SIPP for now, and taking the Tax Free cash to fund me for the short term untill the legislation is clearer. You have made your decision and so I wont say anything negative about QROPS. There are pros and cons as I am sure you know...The problem is there are too many Cons (and I use both sense of the word here) for me to get involved yet. I have met one very knowledgable man on this forum who is involved in that iindustry who i believe is the real deal and will happily pass you his details if you want some advice.

No one knows all the answers here, and nobody knows what the Govt is going to surprise us with next. Dony worry though, the only money I plan to invest in Thailand will be MY dream business, nobody elses. Thanks for caring though.

PLease feel free to contact me when you are clearer on your timelines to move to Thailand.

[LannaGuy]

Just found this thread great information.. I have a fairly big sum in an NHS pension pot. Has any of you experienced transferring an NHS into a QROPS? is the advice still the same? don't do it??? cheers

[dabhand]

Just found this thread great information.. I have a fairly big sum in an NHS pension pot. Has any of you experienced transferring an NHS into a QROPS? is the advice still the same? don't do it??? cheers

Not sure if the NHS pension pots are also affected, but there was a recent change by HMRC in allowing the transfer of teachers pensions into some QROPS. This is due to a block on unfunded DB schemes transfer to a QROP.

This article of 18th August refers:

http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1024402/government-shuts-qrops-public-sector-transfer-loophole

As with anything pension related it tends to be a bit of a minefield. Research, as ever, is key, together with a decent advisor - if they exist!

[LannaGuy]

Wow! its like Osborne has really got it in for the offshore QROPs industry. With his latest proposal; ie the abolition of the " death tax" on pensions (from april next year ), he has removed yet another reason for people to move their fund to a QROP. There are still some benefits but, for most people , unless you have a very significant pension pot, the reasons to move it are much diminished. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11127534/Pension-death-tax-your-questions-answered.html

what do you call a "very significant pot"? 200K? 500K ?

[LannaGuy]

Just found this thread great information.. I have a fairly big sum in an NHS pension pot. Has any of you experienced transferring an NHS into a QROPS? is the advice still the same? don't do it??? cheers

Not sure if the NHS pension pots are also affected, but there was a recent change by HMRC in allowing the transfer of teachers pensions into some QROPS. This is due to a block on unfunded DB schemes transfer to a QROP.

This article of 18th August refers:

http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1024402/government-shuts-qrops-public-sector-transfer-loophole

As with anything pension related it tends to be a bit of a minefield. Research, as ever, is key, together with a decent advisor - if they exist!

It's allowed for sure just got my evaluation but was wondering if anyone had done it. The more I read the more concerned I am to be honest

[ThaiPauly]

I can see that there is a wealth of financial wisdom on this forum and I would be very grateful for any advice you could put my way.

My IFA is advocating QROPS for me. I have read everything written here very closely but I am still no closer to deciding if it's right for me.I have a pot of a quarter mill, I am also lucky enough to own 2 properties in the UK free an clear which I rent out, would I lose my personal allowance if I went down the QROPS route?

I need to start accessing my pot within the next year.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years, I have no

plans to return to the UK.

Thanks in advance for replies

[wordchild]

I can see that there is a wealth of financial wisdom on this forum and I would be very grateful for any advice you could put my way.

My IFA is advocating QROPS for me. I have read everything written here very closely but I am still no closer to deciding if it's right for me.I have a pot of a quarter mill, I am also lucky enough to own 2 properties in the UK free an clear which I rent out, would I lose my personal allowance if I went down the QROPS route?

I need to start accessing my pot within the next year.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years, I have no

plans to return to the UK.

Thanks in advance for replies

There are so many variables that would go into such a decision its impossible to cover all of these and give a definitive answer on a forum such as this. I think there is plenty of info in this thread which should, at the least, help you decide what factors you should take into consideration; eg in no particular order; 1) what kind of fund do you currently have ie a SIPP or an occupational fund? and does it have any particular benefits that you would lose eg inflation linkage?

2)how much do you trust the IFA who is giving you this advice? I think most people on this forum would agree that you should exercise extreme caution (to put it mildly) in dealing with any Thai based IFA.

3)what are the benefits of a QROP that most attract you, and, can you replicate these (at least in the main) by remaining in a UK based fund?

4) are you comfortable that you fully understand what is being offered ie costs and risks. FWIW I would say if you have any doubts about this stay as you are.

I am sure others will have other considerations to add.

On your specific question I cant see any reason why moving to a QROP structure (as long as HMRC approved) should have any bearing on your UK personal allowance. As I understand it, as long as you remain non resident, income from a QROP would not be classed as UK sourced income.

Edited October 7, 2015 by wordchild

[AyG]

I can see that there is a wealth of financial wisdom on this forum and I would be very grateful for any advice you could put my way.

My IFA is advocating QROPS for me. I have read everything written here very closely but I am still no closer to deciding if it's right for me.I have a pot of a quarter mill, I am also lucky enough to own 2 properties in the UK free an clear which I rent out, would I lose my personal allowance if I went down the QROPS route?

I need to start accessing my pot within the next year.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years, I have no

plans to return to the UK.

Thanks in advance for replies

First, from an income tax point of view, if you had no other taxable income, then QROPS would not make sense. Assuming you withdraw a "safe" 4% a year, then that would generate GBP 10,000 - around about the UK income tax threshold. However, adding in the property income (and possibly other income), there would be an income tax saving. Given that a basic QROPS will cost around and additional GBP 1,000 a year*, you'd need to make sure that the tax saving covers this.

You might look into transferring the rented property into the QROPS. I don't know how feasible this is, but it might save more tax. (The downside is that the property or its value if sold, is trapped within the QROPS.)

From an inheritance tax point of view, putting the money in a QROPS takes it out of your estate which may or may not be relevant, depending upon how wealthy you are.

You won't lose your personal allowance for income tax. (That said, it's still on the cards that the Tories will take away the personal allowance for non-residents - particularly in light of the new zero tax band for dividend and interest income.)

*This assumes you'll be managing your own investments. If not, you'll need to add the IFA's charges for managing the investments which will in turn reduce the amount you can safely withdraw each year.

[MaeJoMTB]

I can see that there is a wealth of financial wisdom on this forum and I would be very grateful for any advice you could put my way.

My IFA is advocating QROPS for me. I have read everything written here very closely but I am still no closer to deciding if it's right for me.I have a pot of a quarter mill, I am also lucky enough to own 2 properties in the UK free an clear which I rent out, would I lose my personal allowance if I went down the QROPS route?

I need to start accessing my pot within the next year.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years, I have no

plans to return to the UK.

Thanks in advance for replies

Forget about QRoPs

The FA in Thailand selling you this deal is a crook, your money will have no protection.

Do not use FAs outside the UK, they aren't licensed, the UK won't protect your money from them.

Better off just using drawdown, taking the money out when and as you need it, and pay the tax.

You won't listen, wave goodbye to your pension.

Edited October 8, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[LannaGuy]

I can see that there is a wealth of financial wisdom on this forum and I would be very grateful for any advice you could put my way.

My IFA is advocating QROPS for me. I have read everything written here very closely but I am still no closer to deciding if it's right for me.I have a pot of a quarter mill, I am also lucky enough to own 2 properties in the UK free an clear which I rent out, would I lose my personal allowance if I went down the QROPS route?

I need to start accessing my pot within the next year.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years, I have no

plans to return to the UK.

Thanks in advance for replies

Forget about QRoPs

The FA in Thailand selling you this deal is a crook, your money will have no protection.

Do not use FAs outside the UK, they aren't licensed, the UK won't protect your money from them.

Better off just using drawdown, taking the money out when and as you need it, and pay the tax.

You won't listen, wave goodbye to your pension.

I agree. I started nearly 95% certain I would go down the QROPS route then did the research and now I have written to the NHS Pensions Authority and withdrawn the initial application and signed to stay with the scheme

DON'T do it

[LannaGuy]

I can see that there is a wealth of financial wisdom on this forum and I would be very grateful for any advice you could put my way.

My IFA is advocating QROPS for me. I have read everything written here very closely but I am still no closer to deciding if it's right for me.I have a pot of a quarter mill, I am also lucky enough to own 2 properties in the UK free an clear which I rent out, would I lose my personal allowance if I went down the QROPS route?

I need to start accessing my pot within the next year.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years, I have no

plans to return to the UK.

Thanks in advance for replies

QROPS no

but think about selling those properties? yes. I don't want to go too far off topic but returns from rented out condos here is far, far higher. good luck

[AyG]

"Forget about QRoPs", "DON'T do it", "QROPS no". Why all the negativity about QROPS? They are a wonderful gift from the tax man (albeit a tax man with his arm twisted behind his back by the European Union). What's not to like about income tax free income and taking wealth out of your estate for inheritance tax purposes?

Yes, one needs to proceed with caution and make sure one understands all the charges and the risks, but for many expats intending to retire here they are a great benison.

[MaeJoMTB]

"Forget about QRoPs", "DON'T do it", "QROPS no". Why all the negativity about QROPS? They are a wonderful gift from the tax man (albeit a tax man with his arm twisted behind his back by the European Union). What's not to like about income tax free income and taking wealth out of your estate for inheritance tax purposes?

Yes, one needs to proceed with caution and make sure one understands all the charges and the risks, but for many expats intending to retire here they are a great benison.

The problem being, the only people selling them appear to be crooks.

And in Thailand, crooks working illegally without work permits and without companies registered with the Thai SEC.

[LannaGuy]

"Forget about QRoPs", "DON'T do it", "QROPS no". Why all the negativity about QROPS? They are a wonderful gift from the tax man (albeit a tax man with his arm twisted behind his back by the European Union). What's not to like about income tax free income and taking wealth out of your estate for inheritance tax purposes?

Yes, one needs to proceed with caution and make sure one understands all the charges and the risks, but for many expats intending to retire here they are a great benison.

I'm chasing the boring, safe option it's my future retirement and I'm taking no risks. What would happen if the place you choose for QROPS goes under? think banks etc. Anyway DYOR and good luck to all.