Chanote "red" Title Deed

[johninbkk2000]

We are offered a piece of land which holds a Chanote "Red" title deed. This type of Chanote (Red title) can not be transferred within 10 years after issuance of the deed. The deed is issued 2 years ago to the current owner so we would be able to get it transferred to my wife's name in 8 years time. (not at the time of sale)

The current owner wants to sell and is willing to sign any document we give him. Has anybody any knowledge on how to buy this type land in a save way ?

Many thanks,

John

[Gary A]

I don't know anything about that because when I bought my wife ten rai of farm ground I was told that if the chanote did NOT have a red seal to be careful because that meant there were some kind of restrictions. It DID have a red seal so we bought it.

[Rinrada]

Dont touch anything without the Red Garuda....Full Chanote...usually NO Restrictions. ....House,land or Commercial property....

[simon43]

AFAIK, it is a red Garuda for 'Chanote' land and a green garuda for Nor Sor 3 Gor land.

Simon

[Thaipwriter]

We are offered a piece of land which holds a Chanote "Red" title deed. This type of Chanote (Red title) can not be transferred within 10 years after issuance of the deed. The deed is issued 2 years ago to the current owner so we would be able to get it transferred to my wife's name in 8 years time. (not at the time of sale)

The current owner wants to sell and is willing to sign any document we give him. Has anybody any knowledge on how to buy this type land in a save way ?

Many thanks,

John

Sounds like a sting to me

[johninbkk2000]

This Chanote title deed has the Red Garuda on top and is a full Chanote title deed BUT with 1 restriction and that is that as from the time of issuance from tha land office you can not transfer the deed to somebody else. ie, the name holder of the Chanote can not be changed into somebody else's name within 10 years of issuance.

These "red" chanote title deeds are the same as the "normal" chanote titles without above restriction which are called "black" chanotes. Do not confuse the "red" with the color of the garuda because they both have the red garuda.

We went to the land office and they confirmed above to us. They explained that since a few years land titles like Nor Sor 3 and below can be converted in certain area's to Chanote titles. But to try to rule out land speculation this new type of Chanote has entered the scene. So people holding land on Nor Sor 3 and below can put in a request at the land office for changing to a Chanote title. The land will be measured and official Chanote sticks will be placed on the corners of the land and this "red" type of Chanote (with the red garuda on top) is issued with the restriction that you can not transfer the title deed within 10 years. (again, to rule out land speculation).

Now the land office told us that we can savely buy this land by means of a loan agreement with the current owner. On paper we will lend the owner a sum of money and he will give us the Chanote as collateral. The sum of money lended to the owner on paper will be 10 times higher than we will actually pay for the land. Also there will be a sale agreement in place. All co-signed and witnessed by the land office and the village head. After 8 years we can claim the Chanote and get it transferred to my wife's name.

Another option they gave us was a rent agreement with option to buy. Rent for 8 years (the owner has the title for 2 years already) for the selling price and after that option to by for 1 baht.

I guess this all is rather new to everybody, including me. But I would like to get in touch with somebody who already bought this type of land with all agreements in place.

John

[geoffphuket]

This Chanote title deed has the Red Garuda on top and is a full Chanote title deed BUT with 1 restriction and that is that as from the time of issuance from tha land office you can not transfer the deed to somebody else. ie, the name holder of the Chanote can not be changed into somebody else's name within 10 years of issuance.

These "red" chanote title deeds are the same as the "normal" chanote titles without above restriction which are called "black" chanotes. Do not confuse the "red" with the color of the garuda because they both have the red garuda.

We went to the land office and they confirmed above to us. They explained that since a few years land titles like Nor Sor 3 and below can be converted in certain area's to Chanote titles. But to try to rule out land speculation this new type of Chanote has entered the scene. So people holding land on Nor Sor 3 and below can put in a request at the land office for changing to a Chanote title. The land will be measured and official Chanote sticks will be placed on the corners of the land and this "red" type of Chanote (with the red garuda on top) is issued with the restriction that you can not transfer the title deed within 10 years. (again, to rule out land speculation).

Now the land office told us that we can savely buy this land by means of a loan agreement with the current owner. On paper we will lend the owner a sum of money and he will give us the Chanote as collateral. The sum of money lended to the owner on paper will be 10 times higher than we will actually pay for the land. Also there will be a sale agreement in place. All co-signed and witnessed by the land office and the village head. After 8 years we can claim the Chanote and get it transferred to my wife's name.

Another option they gave us was a rent agreement with option to buy. Rent for 8 years (the owner has the title for 2 years already) for the selling price and after that option to by for 1 baht.

I guess this all is rather new to everybody, including me. But I would like to get in touch with somebody who already bought this type of land with all agreements in place.

John

Never heard this one before - Can't transfer to someone else's name within 10 years. Sound like rubish to me. Anyone else have any idea?

[digitele]

Scam - There's something wrong with this arrangement.

Can't transfer for ten years? The owner must have a lein or bank loan on it.

If you can't understand Thai, look at the back of the deed.

Any loans, lease's or other restrictions would be recorded there.

My advise - run, don't walk away with your money.

Good Luck

[geoffphuket]

Scam - There's something wrong with this arrangement.

Can't transfer for ten years? The owner must have a lein or bank loan on it.

If you can't understand Thai, look at the back of the deed.

Any loans, lease's or other restrictions would be recorded there.

My advise - run, don't walk away with your money.

Good Luck

I agree Digitele, IT'S A SCAM

[Thaipwriter]

I cant imagine there will be much of a rush at the land office's to upgrade to Chanote if it cant be sold for 10 years

[lannarebirth]

Yes, the Chanotte with the 10 year sale restriction is indeed a legitimate title. There are ways to assume ownership that are well understood by Thain authorities. Basically you get "given" the land now, with name transfer to take place at time of restrictions end. You can register this "bequeathal" with the local land department and it's as good as any other chanotte. I would say the only problem with this title is if you in turn want to retransfer within the 8 year period. It's probably possible but will start to make a cloudy chain of ownership. Any lawyer ought to be able to arrange this for you. I have a few chanotte pieces of land and one has the 10 year restriction. Regardless of what others here have said it is not a scam. But DO get a lawyer and DO register any transfer. Good Luck.

Edited July 8, 2006 by lannarebirth

[geoffphuket]

Yes, the Chanotte with the 10 year sale restriction is indeed a legitimate title. There are ways to assume ownership that are well understood by Thain authorities. Basically you get "given" the land now, with name transfer to take place at time of restrictions end. You can register this "bequeathal" with the local land department and it's as good as any other chanotte. I would say the only problem with this title is if you in turn want to retransfer within the 8 year period. It's probably possible but will start to make a cloudy chain of ownership. Any lawyer ought to be able to arrange this for you. I have a few chanotte pieces of land and one has the 10 year restriction. Regardless of what others here have said it is not a scam. But DO get a lawyer and DO register any transfer. Good Luck.

Has anyone else purchased a Chanotte with a 10 year sale restriction - or is 'lannarebirth' the only one ?

[johninbkk2000]

Today we found another foreigner who bought a piece of land with "red" Chanote (so with the 10 years restriction) last year in Chiang Rai. He faxed me his original Chanote and indeed the same thing. He bought it with a loan agreement in place set up by the land office. Again the same advice we got from 2 other land offices.

As lannarebirth stated, this is not a scam but a rather new type of Chanote. We are also told by people working at our bank that this kind of Chanote can be used to get a bank loan. (not that we want this but it proofs that this type of Chanote is regarded as a FULL Chanote title.)

I will contact a lawyer next week to discuss further.

John

[Rinrada]

Done another check and would confirm that its probably gen.

Government is giving away land with full Chanot to "poor Thais who have had settlement/farm/work agreement on the land...ie sort of squatters rights ...but now becoming legal.

Conditions being that since they are being given the land for FREE with 10 years missive to restrict the selling of it...and making a quick buck.....as condition offownership.

It a bit like the Council tenant over "ere who gets a big discount on the market value of their flat with the condition that they cant sell it for ...wotever fixed period...usually min of 5 years........Can be Nice little earner.

Get it notified with a Brief...&...ra wang....

[Khun Jean]

Or just look at some other piece of land without the restriction. There is lots and lots for sale, and when you think you find something nice a few weeks later you see something even nicer. At least that is what happens to me when i buy something nice.

Just consider the options and risks (even small ones) involved.

[Dragonman]

The reason this was introduced was to stop people selling land at inflated prices, such as happened during the previous Government, and partially brought about their downfall. Now everyone, including The Land Office, wants to help people get around the law again. A crazy loan agreement, and with nobody knowing what they are signing or doing! A recipe for disaster.