What Do You Think When You See A Western Man And A Thai Woman?

[Naam]

"But i never seen a 60 year old girl who i would ever be attracted too."

that's just lack of experience

[Naam]

"I know not everyone would enjoy such a situation, but for me I think being married to someone from my native country would be very boring. If I liked my own country so much and it's culture, I would have stayed there and married someone from there.

Maybe I'm a bit outside the box for some of you, but certainly I'm not alone."

*****

you are not alone Soju! now there's two of us and we could form a club although i am not married to a Thai lady.

[lingyai]

Well good she found you, it could have been worse is your arguement?

Yes, it could have been worse. And I'm sure it could have been better. Do any of us in life find the perfect mate where nobody else in the world could be better? I don't think so. What's your point?

What is really too bad is that she does not come from a background were she could get the opportunities to go to university and have basic financial stabilty with out the need to find 20 year older man.

If she did then she could enjoy a partner who is young and not one who is she "doesn't find... physically very attractive"

No, what is too bad is that some people don't have the slightest clue about something called "love". No need to say anything more about this because if you're someone who's ever experienced real love, then you'll understand what I'm talking about and if you've never experienced real love, then you may have the false impression that enjoying a young attractive partner is more important than love.

Since you love her you must wish she had this chance right?

If she decides that she doesn't love me and wants to be with a younger, more physically attractive man, then she's welcome to it and if she's happy in doing so then I'll be happy for her. I love her and just want what's best for her. Of course I would be devasted at the same time as being happy that she found what she was really looking for. If you love someone, you give them freedom to make their own decisions. My wife is free to make her own decisions and so far she has decided to stay with me.

Of course she has, because she does not as you said have much of a chance of finding a young man that could give her the opportunity to pursue things like higher education. To say has a choice is like saying one has a choice between Pepsi and Coke.

Well good she found you, it could have been worse is your arguement?

What is really too bad is that she does not come from a background were she could get the opportunities to go to university and have basic financial stabilty with out the need to find 20 year older man.

If she did then she could enjoy a partner who is young and not one who is she "doesn't find... physically very attractive"

Since you love her you must wish she had this chance right?

If a Thai woman wants to be with an older man, a local or foreigner, so be it.

It may be better for that woman to seek out someone with a good heart and one who treats her with respect rather than a focusing on her partner being young and physically very attractive, as was suggested and implied.

Women generally mature faster and live longer than men. If the age difference is 5 years or 20+, whose business is it?

Where was it implied that a Thai woman should not be with older man if she wants?

Where was it implied that having a partner that was young and physically very attractive was better than a finding a partner that was respectful?

What is so amusing here is all the talk about love being of paramount importance and looks and youth being minor things. Nearly all of this is being put forth by old men who have gf/wives that are 20+ years younger. Many of these women coming from economically disadvantage backgrounds and would have much less opportunity if they had married someone who loved them that was their own age. None of these old guys looked past the physical, yet they love (no pun intended) to say oh, its all because of love.

Lets look at Soju’s relationship (am not trying to purposefully pick on you, but I do think some of your arguments are weak).

He talks about love being paramount and looks being secondary. But if only really cared about love he would have also looked at women his own age who he says he finds physically “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive”

But he didn’t. So he cared about looks a lot more than he carries on.

His wife who in his own words would not have had much opportunity unless she married and 20+ year older guy as opposed to a young guy who loved her. She had to make the choice between marrying a man in Soju words “doesn't find... physically very attractive” and marrying a younger man and staying poor with little opportunity.

So Soju and others talk about love being much more important than looks, but they never had to make the choice between being with someone loving and young but offering little opportunity and someone loving but old and in Soju words “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” who offers opportunity.

In fact quite the opposite in Soju’s case. He was with someone young when he was young (I am not saying you are that old now). Then when he is in his own words at and age where young women like his wife don’t find him “physically very attractive” he will be with someone young.

According to him, his wife will be physically attractive for about 20-25 more years (as he says he finds women his age “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” and his wife will be around his age in about 25 years if she is in her early twenties and he is say around 47). When Soju’s wife reaches his age he will be about 72. Say he will live until 78. So for 5 years he will be with her when she is “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” but he says that “I’m sure I'll still love her and that my love for her will blind her unattractiveness.”

(how sweet).

So for 5 years out of his life he will be will a person who he find “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” but will love anyway…of course these 5 years will be when he is in his 70s and I would imagine physical activity is a lot less in that area.

Now lets look at his wife. Starting from her early 20s she is with someone that she doesn’t find physically attractive. If they stay together until he dies she will be single again around 52-53. Of course now she is “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” Do you think she is going to get anyone remotely physically attractive? No. Guys like Soju will not be looking for “true love” with her. So she again will find somebody who she doesn’t find physically attractive and live another 30 years dying at say 82-83 years old. She lived her whole life with much older men she doesn’t find physically unattractive and Soju lived nearly his whole life with women who were young.

This is because she made a choice based on economics and sacrificed being with someone she found physically attractive in order to have other opportunities.

I am blaming Soju and other men like him for the state of the economic situation many women in this and other areas of the world find themselves? No

I am I saying Soju is bad for marrying his wife? No

I am I saying she can’t have a good life? No

Do I find some of the arguments that Soju and others on this forum make about “true love” and seeing past physical attractiveness being pretty weak when none of them did? With out a doubt.

Next they will be telling us they read Playboy for the articles…

20 year old with a 40 year old isnt too bad, but 20 and 60 is totally different IMO.

he is old enough to be her grandfather.

Well im with an older female, she is in her thirties and im in my mid twenties but the is only a small gap.

I have found some 40 year old girls attractive so i can see how 20 year old girls would find 40 year old men attractive. But i never seen a 60 year old girl who i would ever be attracted too.

You're talking about physical attraction there. There are many factors that make a person attractive besides their physical body. Physical attraction is not equally important to all people. Right now, you find some women up to 40 years old to be physically attractive. Do you think this will change as you get older? Maybe you do, but I think you'll find out you're wrong. I find the same age range of women to be physically attractive now as when I was 20. My brain doesn't magically start to find older women physically attractive as I reach their age. They're just as physically unattractive now as they always were. Again, that doesn't mean that they can't be attractive in other ways.

Okay, so if a man aged 60 doesn't find women his age to be physically attractive what's he to do if he wants to find a mate? If he can find a woman who's attractive to him in other respects, then he may accept her. But if physical attraction is extremely important to him, then his only option is to find a younger woman or else remain single.

I take it that in your eyes (and likewise in many other people's eyes) it's wrong for a young woman to be with a much older man that she doesn't find physically attractive. But what's the difference if she's 60 years old and ends up with a 60 year old man that she's not physically attracted to? Or what's the difference if she ends up with a young man who is very ugly? Logically your arguments don't make any sense to me because somehow you think that a young person deserves to have a physically attractive mate, but magically when they reach some certain age they're no longer deserving of that. What is it that makes a young person deserving of it but not an older person? Everyone has the right to be with someone they're attracted to. If a young woman is attracted to an older man because she finds his stability, personality, etc. to be attractive despite a not so physically attractive body, who am I to say that she's wrong. Even if the attraction is money, still as long as they're both happy I have no reason to say the relationship shouldn't be.

Love, relationships, and attraction are a very personal matter and vary so widely from one individual to the next. To try to force your own views on these matters onto everyone else is simply stupid. Provided the couple are of age and they are of sound mind, just simply let them be.

If you want a reply to this post just see where I replied to your prevoius post on the same issue.

No one is saying a woman can't marry old guy, or can't be happy BUT usually they do so because of very limited options, UNLIKE YOURSELF. You say:

"What is it that makes a young person deserving of it but not an older person? Everyone has the right to be with someone they're attracted to."

Problem is there are Thai woman who have to marry an old guy to have a chance at economic stablity so they give up the opportunity to have a relationship with a person their age who they are physically not attracted to. How many 17 yearold thai girls have posters of OLD foreign men on their wall? Most would want young attractive men.

I am not blaming you for this, but for you to not acknowledge means you are being less than honest. I kindly suggest you read my prevouis post to understand my full point.

[Archie Bunker]

Very nice post there Soju

[Donz]

You and I know that is a load of crap, the ONLY reason a woman 20 and under is with a 60 plus year old is for the cash. There might be a 0.001% chance that she is not, but generally she will be after you cash or something to benefit her.

Also how can a 60 year old man have anything in common with a girl who is 20 or under? there way of thinking is on different levels and in 99.9% the man that is 60 plus with a girl under 20 is just in it for the sex and nothing else.

You can spin it how ever you like but deep down you know the truth

Even if she is with him just for the cash, what is wrong with that? Lots and lots of relationships, not just older man/younger woman relationship, are based on money. If they both know what the real situation is, and choose to continue, then there's nothing wrong with it. How do you justify that with your statement "a 60 year old with a teen or early 20's is sick IMO. Might not all agree but its sick"? Saying it is "sick" sounds like you think it is morally wrong.

You think it is impossible for a 60-year-old man to have anything in common with a 20-year-old woman. What about a Farang having anything in common with a Thai woman? I think for many it would be a similar comparison. I know I don't have a whole lot in common with my wife, not because she's younger than me but because she's Thai and I'm not. She grew up in a completely different culture, speaking a completely different language than me. Having such vast differences is actually something that is interesting in our relationship. She's always learning something new about my culture and I'm always learning something different about hers. I know not everyone would enjoy such a situation, but for me I think being married to someone from my native country would be very boring. If I liked my own country so much and it's culture, I would have stayed there and married someone from there. I didn't and I moved to Asia and don't go back except for business or to visit my family there. I'm the type of person who loves to travel around and meet new and interesting people and cultures. If I want to have a conversation with someone who I have a lot in common with, I'll call my brother or one of my friends in the States. But this doesn't happen too often because in general I'd much prefer to be around people who I don't have so much in common as I can learn something new in talking with them. Maybe I'm a bit outside the box for some of you, but certainly I'm not alone.

What sort of things do you think the majority of guys have in common with their Thai girlfriends/wives? I'm not talking about a Thai girl who grew up or lived a long time overseas, but one who grew up in Thailand and is continuing to live there. Unless she's been exposed to a lot of foreign culture, most likely there won't be anything in common with a Farang with respect to music, politics, culture, or even humor (except on a limited scale where language is not a factor in the humor). The majority of things that they might have in common would have nothing to do with age. Things such as outdoor activities, travelling, dining, etc. don't depend on age (although failing health could affect one's abilities to do something he enjoyed). Even lots of couples of the same age and from the same culture complain that they have nothing in common. I think a relationship with a huge age gap of two people who grew up in the same culture will be more likely to experience the "nothing in common" problem because most of those people are seeking someone with whom they have something in common with. For people as myself who are looking outside the box, we don't really want someone with whom we have a lot in common. In summary, I'm not buying the "nothing in common" argument one single bit.

Regarding your comment about an older man only being interested in a young woman for sex....how is that any different from any men seeking any women? I think just about everyone knows that sex is on the minds of a very large percent of the men a very large percent of the time. Ask any man you know if he would have married his wife if she told him at the very beginning she would never agree to have sex with him and you'll soon realize just how important sex is to most men. Beyond the sex, most (but not all) men are looking for something else as well, maybe someone to cook/clean, maybe a friend, maybe a partner, maybe even someone to love. How is it that you think because there is a big age difference that the man cannot be looking for a woman to fulfill some desire other than sex? Completely bogus argument IMHO.

An older man can have a lot of qualities that are much more difficult to find in a younger man, besides money. I'm sure a very large number of relationships with a huge age difference are based on money, but certainly not all, nor anywheres near your percent of 99.999. And if you look at such relationships involving Thai/Farang compared to Farang/Farang I think you'd see an even smaller percent of those where money was the only factor. In the West, there is a certain stigma attached to relationships with a huge age difference that is not nearly so prevelant in Thailand and other Asian cultures.

Like you have just said, a 20 and under girl and a 60 plus (farang, asian whatever) have nothing in common and the girl 99.99% of them would not be you for looks. Which only leaves the cash, if you ok with that then up to you, but I would never like to be with a girl who was only with me for my cash.

And why cant a Farang and a Thai girl have something in common? there human beings, Thai's arent a type of animal who do totally differnt things, they like dancing like movies and have hobbies. Just because you come from different cultures doesnt mean you cant have anything in common.

Also a relationship with the couples closer to there agae, even if they didnt have anything in common they may have a physical attraction, someone thing a relationship 40 plus years difference just cant have IMO

[bkkmadness]

Like you have just said, a 20 and under girl and a 60 plus (farang, asian whatever) have nothing in common and the girl 99.99% of them would not be you for looks. Which only leaves the cash, if you ok with that then up to you, but I would never like to be with a girl who was only with me for my cash.

You say that now Donz but you're how old? Perhaps you got a few more options with the women here than a lot of men. Were you 60 and single, maybe you would think a bit differently?

[Unknown]

Like you have just said, a 20 and under girl and a 60 plus (farang, asian whatever) have nothing in common and the girl 99.99% of them would not be with you for looks. Which only leaves the cash

Well, not too sure there must be a 40 years difference for that to happen.

When girls are poor and cash is there, any difference will do, from 0 to whatever.

The lower the better, of course, at least for the girl...

[britmaveric]

Last I checked older lads like to drink, travel, watch movies, sports, shop, dance, music. I think that alone is well enough to have heaps in common. To be frankly honest good on the old lads for enjoying themselves in their twilight years!!! It doesnt bother me in the least, so why should it bother you?

Edited October 11, 2006 by britmaveric

[Unknown]

It doesnt bother me in the least, so why should it bother you?

I have to say that it bothered me more in the past than these days.

Am I getting old...?

[meadish_sweetball]

Thank you ,thank you, thank you

Good luck to you all

Good luck to you as well... Don't forget your soap box.

[Soju]

Like you have just said, a 20 and under girl and a 60 plus (farang, asian whatever) have nothing in common and the girl 99.99% of them would not be you for looks. Which only leaves the cash, if you ok with that then up to you, but I would never like to be with a girl who was only with me for my cash.

And why cant a Farang and a Thai girl have something in common? there human beings, Thai's arent a type of animal who do totally differnt things, they like dancing like movies and have hobbies. Just because you come from different cultures doesnt mean you cant have anything in common.

Also a relationship with the couples closer to there agae, even if they didnt have anything in common they may have a physical attraction, someone thing a relationship 40 plus years difference just cant have IMO

Okay, first of all you have to define what you mean by "something in common", which you didn't originally and so I had to sort of assume what you meant. Now you have defined it as things such as dancing, movies and hobbies. Why is it that a 60 year-old and a 20-year-old can't enjoy the same movies and hobbies? I can see maybe they wouldn't enjoy the same kind of dancing, though certainly it would be possible. There's no where near a 40-year age gap between me and my wife, but still a significant one. We often enjoy going to movies together. We travel together all the time and enjoy it equally. We do lots of things together. Neither of us have time for hobbies, so we don't share that. Neither of us like any kind of dancing, so we don't share that. She has her group of friends, and I have mine. Her friends don't really speak English and my friends don't speak Thai, not to mention her friends are in Thailand and my friends are elsewhere. So each of our friends wouldn't mix well. But that has nothing to do with age. So please, give me some good examples of your "nothing in common" that are specific to do with age. I'll admit that dancing could be one. And music could also be one, but I know of many Thais who don't listen to much in the way of Western music but prefer mostly Thai music, so this could be considered a Thai vs. Farang issue rather than an old vs. young issue. So, Donz, spill the beans...how is it that they don't have anything in common? So far you've seen to prove my point more than your point in your example.

You say that couples closer in age will have the physical attraction. Well, hate to inform you Donz, but there are a lot of ugly young people in this world. Everyone has a different opinion of what is physically attractive and what is not, and for the most part any given individual will be more physically attractive when they are younger than when they get older. But if you took all the women in the world who are in their 20's, I would say that less than 10% of them are physically attractive to me. Some guys might find 90% of them to be attractive, but as I say, everyone has their own opinion, and I'm probably quite a bit pickier than most. But whatever the case, there's still lots of ugly young people out there. What do you say to them? Don't ever get married because you're ugly? Physical attraction is an important part of the equation to some people. To others, it might be insignificant. While living in Asia, I've been asked countless times by Asian women if I can find a Farang bf for them. When asked, I often request a list of qualities they're looking for. When it comes to physical looks, I've heard more often than not that they dislike attractive men. Not because they don't like to look at them, but because all attractive men they know are playboys. Donz, you consider yourself handsome, so you simply don't want to admit that not all girls are into handsome boys. Some girls actually like an older man who's more stable, financially independent, and mature. Certainly not all girls are like that. Not even most girls. But certainly some are. Admit it or not, but that is reality.

Still, I'd like an answer as to why you find a 60-year-old and a 20-year-old in a relationship to be sick? And does this also apply if it's an old woman and a young man?

[Soju]

Like you have just said, a 20 and under girl and a 60 plus (farang, asian whatever) have nothing in common and the girl 99.99% of them would not be you for looks. Which only leaves the cash, if you ok with that then up to you, but I would never like to be with a girl who was only with me for my cash.

You say that now Donz but you're how old? Perhaps you got a few more options with the women here than a lot of men. Were you 60 and single, maybe you would think a bit differently?

Yes, exactly. Many young people think one way because they've never been old. Once they age, they think very differently. Donz, come 35 years from now if you find yourself single and loaded with cash, do you really think you'll be out chasing 60 to 80 year olds? I'd be willing to bet that a cute 20-year-old would easily be able to win your heart. There's no way to prove it to you now...you'll only have to experience it first-hand as you age.

[Little Black Duck]

SBK, as a brand new member reading this forum for the very first time, Thank you for bringing the original topic back..I have never read such dribble and carring on by Farang Men who are trying to justify their relationships with younger Thai Ladys..

Guys truth is Love has no boundrys, Color,Class, Creed, Culture, and should not matter what anyone thinks as long as you know the truth thats all that matters..

I'm not sure if I understand your position fully. You say that love has no boundaries, yet you mention about farang men justifying their relationship with a younger Thai woman. Does this mean that you don't approve of those relationships? And if so, it means that for you love does indeed have a boundary - with respect to age. I don't know about everyone's reason for justifying their relationships, but I certainly if someone says that there is no love between an older man and a younger woman, that man has a right to defend his position with whatever dribble (sic) he desire.

Soju I learned comprehention at school many years ago..I have no problem with Older Men having younger girlfriends or wives, That is why I say Love has no boundrys..and the truth is if you are happy and love someone doesnt matter what anyone else thinks as long as you know the truth..

Did i make it clearer for you ???

[Little Black Duck]

Well good she found you, it could have been worse is your arguement?

Yes, it could have been worse. And I'm sure it could have been better. Do any of us in life find the perfect mate where nobody else in the world could be better? I don't think so. What's your point?

What is really too bad is that she does not come from a background were she could get the opportunities to go to university and have basic financial stabilty with out the need to find 20 year older man.

If she did then she could enjoy a partner who is young and not one who is she "doesn't find... physically very attractive"

No, what is too bad is that some people don't have the slightest clue about something called "love". No need to say anything more about this because if you're someone who's ever experienced real love, then you'll understand what I'm talking about and if you've never experienced real love, then you may have the false impression that enjoying a young attractive partner is more important than love.

Since you love her you must wish she had this chance right?

If she decides that she doesn't love me and wants to be with a younger, more physically attractive man, then she's welcome to it and if she's happy in doing so then I'll be happy for her. I love her and just want what's best for her. Of course I would be devasted at the same time as being happy that she found what she was really looking for. If you love someone, you give them freedom to make their own decisions. My wife is free to make her own decisions and so far she has decided to stay with me.

Of course she has, because she does not as you said have much of a chance of finding a young man that could give her the opportunity to pursue things like higher education. To say has a choice is like saying one has a choice between Pepsi and Coke.

Well good she found you, it could have been worse is your arguement?

What is really too bad is that she does not come from a background were she could get the opportunities to go to university and have basic financial stabilty with out the need to find 20 year older man.

If she did then she could enjoy a partner who is young and not one who is she "doesn't find... physically very attractive"

Since you love her you must wish she had this chance right?

If a Thai woman wants to be with an older man, a local or foreigner, so be it.

It may be better for that woman to seek out someone with a good heart and one who treats her with respect rather than a focusing on her partner being young and physically very attractive, as was suggested and implied.

Women generally mature faster and live longer than men. If the age difference is 5 years or 20+, whose business is it?

Where was it implied that a Thai woman should not be with older man if she wants?

Where was it implied that having a partner that was young and physically very attractive was better than a finding a partner that was respectful?

What is so amusing here is all the talk about love being of paramount importance and looks and youth being minor things. Nearly all of this is being put forth by old men who have gf/wives that are 20+ years younger. Many of these women coming from economically disadvantage backgrounds and would have much less opportunity if they had married someone who loved them that was their own age. None of these old guys looked past the physical, yet they love (no pun intended) to say oh, its all because of love.

Lets look at Soju’s relationship (am not trying to purposefully pick on you, but I do think some of your arguments are weak).

He talks about love being paramount and looks being secondary. But if only really cared about love he would have also looked at women his own age who he says he finds physically “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive”

But he didn’t. So he cared about looks a lot more than he carries on.

His wife who in his own words would not have had much opportunity unless she married and 20+ year older guy as opposed to a young guy who loved her. She had to make the choice between marrying a man in Soju words “doesn't find... physically very attractive” and marrying a younger man and staying poor with little opportunity.

So Soju and others talk about love being much more important than looks, but they never had to make the choice between being with someone loving and young but offering little opportunity and someone loving but old and in Soju words “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” who offers opportunity.

In fact quite the opposite in Soju’s case. He was with someone young when he was young (I am not saying you are that old now). Then when he is in his own words at and age where young women like his wife don’t find him “physically very attractive” he will be with someone young.

According to him, his wife will be physically attractive for about 20-25 more years (as he says he finds women his age “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” and his wife will be around his age in about 25 years if she is in her early twenties and he is say around 47). When Soju’s wife reaches his age he will be about 72. Say he will live until 78. So for 5 years he will be with her when she is “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” but he says that “I’m sure I'll still love her and that my love for her will blind her unattractiveness.”

(how sweet).

So for 5 years out of his life he will be will a person who he find “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” but will love anyway…of course these 5 years will be when he is in his 70s and I would imagine physical activity is a lot less in that area.

Now lets look at his wife. Starting from her early 20s she is with someone that she doesn’t find physically attractive. If they stay together until he dies she will be single again around 52-53. Of course now she is “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” Do you think she is going to get anyone remotely physically attractive? No. Guys like Soju will not be looking for “true love” with her. So she again will find somebody who she doesn’t find physically attractive and live another 30 years dying at say 82-83 years old. She lived her whole life with much older men she doesn’t find physically unattractive and Soju lived nearly his whole life with women who were young.

This is because she made a choice based on economics and sacrificed being with someone she found physically attractive in order to have other opportunities.

I am blaming Soju and other men like him for the state of the economic situation many women in this and other areas of the world find themselves? No

I am I saying Soju is bad for marrying his wife? No

I am I saying she can’t have a good life? No

Do I find some of the arguments that Soju and others on this forum make about “true love” and seeing past physical attractiveness being pretty weak when none of them did? With out a doubt.

Next they will be telling us they read Playboy for the articles…

20 year old with a 40 year old isnt too bad, but 20 and 60 is totally different IMO.

he is old enough to be her grandfather.

Well im with an older female, she is in her thirties and im in my mid twenties but the is only a small gap.

I have found some 40 year old girls attractive so i can see how 20 year old girls would find 40 year old men attractive. But i never seen a 60 year old girl who i would ever be attracted too.

You're talking about physical attraction there. There are many factors that make a person attractive besides their physical body. Physical attraction is not equally important to all people. Right now, you find some women up to 40 years old to be physically attractive. Do you think this will change as you get older? Maybe you do, but I think you'll find out you're wrong. I find the same age range of women to be physically attractive now as when I was 20. My brain doesn't magically start to find older women physically attractive as I reach their age. They're just as physically unattractive now as they always were. Again, that doesn't mean that they can't be attractive in other ways.

Okay, so if a man aged 60 doesn't find women his age to be physically attractive what's he to do if he wants to find a mate? If he can find a woman who's attractive to him in other respects, then he may accept her. But if physical attraction is extremely important to him, then his only option is to find a younger woman or else remain single.

I take it that in your eyes (and likewise in many other people's eyes) it's wrong for a young woman to be with a much older man that she doesn't find physically attractive. But what's the difference if she's 60 years old and ends up with a 60 year old man that she's not physically attracted to? Or what's the difference if she ends up with a young man who is very ugly? Logically your arguments don't make any sense to me because somehow you think that a young person deserves to have a physically attractive mate, but magically when they reach some certain age they're no longer deserving of that. What is it that makes a young person deserving of it but not an older person? Everyone has the right to be with someone they're attracted to. If a young woman is attracted to an older man because she finds his stability, personality, etc. to be attractive despite a not so physically attractive body, who am I to say that she's wrong. Even if the attraction is money, still as long as they're both happy I have no reason to say the relationship shouldn't be.

Love, relationships, and attraction are a very personal matter and vary so widely from one individual to the next. To try to force your own views on these matters onto everyone else is simply stupid. Provided the couple are of age and they are of sound mind, just simply let them be.

If you want a reply to this post just see where I replied to your prevoius post on the same issue.

No one is saying a woman can't marry old guy, or can't be happy BUT usually they do so because of very limited options, UNLIKE YOURSELF. You say:

"What is it that makes a young person deserving of it but not an older person? Everyone has the right to be with someone they're attracted to."

Problem is there are Thai woman who have to marry an old guy to have a chance at economic stablity so they give up the opportunity to have a relationship with a person their age who they are physically not attracted to. How many 17 yearold thai girls have posters of OLD foreign men on their wall? Most would want young attractive men.

I am not blaming you for this, but for you to not acknowledge means you are being less than honest. I kindly suggest you read my prevouis post to understand my full point.

Soju..You make a lot of sense but let me point out many young women have posters of Sean Connery on their walls and he's no spring Chicken...

[bkkmadness]

many young women have posters of Sean Connery on their walls

No they don't.

[Soju]

If you want a reply to this post just see where I replied to your prevoius post on the same issue.

No one is saying a woman can't marry old guy, or can't be happy BUT usually they do so because of very limited options, UNLIKE YOURSELF. You say:

"What is it that makes a young person deserving of it but not an older person? Everyone has the right to be with someone they're attracted to."

Problem is there are Thai woman who have to marry an old guy to have a chance at economic stablity so they give up the opportunity to have a relationship with a person their age who they are physically not attracted to. How many 17 yearold thai girls have posters of OLD foreign men on their wall? Most would want young attractive men.

I am not blaming you for this, but for you to not acknowledge means you are being less than honest. I kindly suggest you read my prevouis post to understand my full point.

Sorry, I missed seeing your response before, so I'll take time now to respond.

Where was it implied that a Thai woman should not be with older man if she wants?

Lots of people imply this. I'm not saying you did, but certainly a lot of people do. Take Donz as an example. He says it's "sick".

Where was it implied that having a partner that was young and physically very attractive was better than a finding a partner that was respectful?

If you take all the young women who are looking for a partner that is respectful, and take all the available men who are respectful, I think you'll find that there's a big shortage of young attractive men that fit the bill. Certainly I've come to that conclusion in my experience in talking with young Thai women. I'm not saying there aren't any young attractive men in Thailand who are also respectful, but certainly there is a shortage of them, at least in the minds of Thai women. So a typical Thai woman has to decide if she wants to compete against others for a young attractive respectful man, or maybe accept an older less-attractive respectful man, or some other option. Of course if she can have it all, why not? But the simple fact is that there is a shortage of good young men and there's no reason why a Thai woman shouldn't seek an older good man if youth isn't so important to her as it is to other women. Finding an older man isn't for every Thai woman, but certainly is acceptable to some.

What is so amusing here is all the talk about love being of paramount importance and looks and youth being minor things. Nearly all of this is being put forth by old men who have gf/wives that are 20+ years younger. Many of these women coming from economically disadvantage backgrounds and would have much less opportunity if they had married someone who loved them that was their own age. None of these old guys looked past the physical, yet they love (no pun intended) to say oh, its all because of love.

I think you've got it all wrong. For a very large group of people, love is paramount in any relationship. I cannot overemphasize this point. Beyond love, each individual has a set of qualities that they'd like to find in a mate, with some qualities being more important than others. If beyond love, looks are what is most important to me, I'll look for someone who I can love and who also has the looks. For other people looks aren't so important. Financial stability might be much more important than looks. It doesn't mean that they don't dislike a young handsome man, but rather that finding a young handsome man is not so important to them as is someone who has financial stability. So if I'm looking for a young attractive female, but I'm an older, not so attractive male who is financially stable, I'll seek out a female that matches my criteria and who is looking for a man that matches my qualities. I won't pursue the female who is looking for men her age, but seek out the ones who don't mind being with an older man. IMHO, it's not really too difficult to understand that everyone is different and everyone is looking for something different in a mate and it is up to us to seek out someone who is a good match for us. There's lots of qualities that people would like to have in a mate - youth, physical attractiveness, wealth, humor, good personality, honest, etc. But in the end we all come to the conclusion that Mr. Perfect / Miss Perfect does not exist and we have to settle for something less and different people will chose differently in which quality they place less importance on. You seem to put extreme importance on youth and physical attractiveness. Just because that is important to you, why do you think it is of equal importance to others? It is not! For some it is very important but for some it is not important.

And why is it so bad if I want youth/beauty, even though I don't have either, and a woman wants financial security/maturity even though she has neither, but the two end up together in a relationship? That is the beauty of human relationships - we can end up with someone quite different than us because we can supply something they're missing and they can supply something we're missing. The same reason why most men are attracted to women and most women are attracted to men. Men and women are different and we're attracted to something different than what we are.

He talks about love being paramount and looks being secondary. But if only really cared about love he would have also looked at women his own age who he says he finds physically “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive”

But he didn’t. So he cared about looks a lot more than he carries on.

His wife who in his own words would not have had much opportunity unless she married and 20+ year older guy as opposed to a young guy who loved her. She had to make the choice between marrying a man in Soju words “doesn't find... physically very attractive” and marrying a younger man and staying poor with little opportunity.

So Soju and others talk about love being much more important than looks, but they never had to make the choice between being with someone loving and young but offering little opportunity and someone loving but old and in Soju words “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” who offers opportunity.

When you first meet someone, you don't fall madly in love with them at first sight. You may see someone and be extremely attracted to them at first, but not truely in love. Love takes time to develop between a couple. Before the love develops, there needs to be some attraction or something else that keeps the people together long enough for love to develop. If the attraction for me is youth and beauty, and the attraction for my mate is financial stability, then we each have an initial attraction that can keep us together. If the love grows strong enough over time, the initial attraction force should be able to be severed and the relationship still remain strong. I freely admit that my wife's youth and beauty were what attracted me to her to begin with. But I know for certain that she will lose her youth and beauty over time. That doesn't bother me in the least because as our love grows I'm more and more attracted to her out of sheer love than anything physical or otherwise. But if that initial attraction wasn't there, I'd never would have asked her out on our first date and so would never have gotten to know her better. Take another example - let's say that a man works in an office and sees the same people everyday. A particular woman in the office is older and not so atttractive, but overtime the man gets to know her and really likes her and so they start dating and fall in love. There's nothing wrong with that scenario. If I was in that situation, I wouldn't resist even though the woman was physically unattractive to me. But my point is that it didn't happen to me. I'm not in a situation where I regularly work with such kind of single women nor have continued contact with such women. Everyone needs some sort of force/situation or attraction to bring them together long enough for love to develop. Regardless of what the force/situation or attraction is, the important thing is that love develops so that the relationship can be a sustaining one. The initial attraction/force to bring them together is paramount in the initial phase. Love is paramount in the long-run and other factors are secondary.

In fact quite the opposite in Soju’s case. He was with someone young when he was young (I am not saying you are that old now). Then when he is in his own words at and age where young women like his wife don’t find him “physically very attractive” he will be with someone young.

Actually, when I was young I was with nobody. I was too busy getting an education, then earning money and then running a business. Surprisingly, when I did get around to dating finally, I initially only dated women much older than me. I was not physically attracted to them but enjoyed getting to know women who already had some experience when I had none. The first time I ever even dated a woman in her 20's was when I was already well into my 30's. But regardless of that, I don't see any significance to whether I was with a young girl when I was young or not.

According to him, his wife will be physically attractive for about 20-25 more years (as he says he finds women his age “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” and his wife will be around his age in about 25 years if she is in her early twenties and he is say around 47). When Soju’s wife reaches his age he will be about 72. Say he will live until 78. So for 5 years he will be with her when she is “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” but he says that “I’m sure I'll still love her and that my love for her will blind her unattractiveness.”

(how sweet).

So for 5 years out of his life he will be will a person who he find “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” but will love anyway…of course these 5 years will be when he is in his 70s and I would imagine physical activity is a lot less in that area.

Again, refer to my comments about initial attraction vs. love. If five years from now my wife had a terrible accident and was permanently disfigured, I'm sure I'd still love her and find her attractive due to my love for her, even though she was no longer physically attractive. Physical attraction is important to me in the initial phase of the relationship as a way to let love develop. It is by no means important in sustaining the relationship once love and other points of attraction have developed. Ever heard the expression "love is blind"? I totally agree with that. Once real love develops, one doesn't care anymore about their partner's physical appearance.

Now lets look at his wife. Starting from her early 20s she is with someone that she doesn’t find physically attractive. If they stay together until he dies she will be single again around 52-53. Of course now she is “slightly repulsive to extremely repulsive” Do you think she is going to get anyone remotely physically attractive? No. Guys like Soju will not be looking for “true love” with her. So she again will find somebody who she doesn’t find physically attractive and live another 30 years dying at say 82-83 years old. She lived her whole life with much older men she doesn’t find physically unattractive and Soju lived nearly his whole life with women who were young.

This is because she made a choice based on economics and sacrificed being with someone she found physically attractive in order to have other opportunities.

Again, you don't seem to have any concept of love or it's importance in someone's life. I suggest you learn to love and then maybe you'll understand it. If a woman is in love with her man, it doesn't matter how unattractive he is. The love is what keeps her devoted to her husband and is what keeps her husband devoted to her. If they truly love each other, they are happy. She is not thinking all her life, "oh what a poor woman I am for having to go through life with older men". She is thinking, "oh, how lucky I am to have gone through life with men who really loved me." That is assuming there was real love in her relationship. Likewise, the woman who marries a young man and goes through life in a loving relationship with him will at the end think, "What a lucky woman I was to have such a loving husband." But take the case where a young woman ends up with an abusive older man, then she may well think "Oh poor me, I ended up with such a terrible man, and so old at that. Why didn't I choose a younger man. At least I could have been physically attracted to him even if he was abusive." Or what about they young woman who marries an abusive young attractive man, she may think "Why on earth did I ever choose that guy instead of that older man who was interested in me. He ended up marrying a girl I knew and they are so happy together. If I'd only looked beyond the physical attraction I could be so happy like her." In the end it is a person's happiness which is important, and for most people that will come by being able to find someone they can love and who will love them regardless of what they may look like 5, 10, 20, or 40 years from now.

Do I find some of the arguments that Soju and others on this forum make about “true love” and seeing past physical attractiveness being pretty weak when none of them did? With out a doubt.

Next they will be telling us they read Playboy for the articles…

I hope I've made my position a little clearer with this post. I'm sure there are a good number of men who are not in love but rather in lust and just look for a young woman and then dump her when she begins to show her age or they tire of her. But please do not lump all men who have a younger wife in that same category. And no, I do not read Playboy nor any other such magazines.

[Soju]

Soju I learned comprehention at school many years ago..I have no problem with Older Men having younger girlfriends or wives, That is why I say Love has no boundrys..and the truth is if you are happy and love someone doesnt matter what anyone else thinks as long as you know the truth..

Did i make it clearer for you ???

Yes, clear now.

[bkkmadness]

Great Posts Soju.

[Donz]

Well maybe I will think different when Im 60 years old, But to me now a 40 year gap is wrong as some may work out but most are just after your money. Plus planning a family together with her will also be hard as it wont be fair on the kid as the father may not be around when there older.

How many 60 plus year old likes hip hop and dance music??

[Soju]

Well maybe I will think different when Im 60 years old, But to me now a 40 year gap is wrong as some may work out but most are just after your money. Plus planning a family together with her will also be hard as it wont be fair on the kid as the father may not be around when there older.

How many 60 plus year old likes hip hop and dance music??

Was that your response to me? All you could think of as far as "nothing in common" is that some old geezer won't like hip hop and dance music? I rest my case!

[bkkmadness]

Well maybe I will think different when Im 60 years old, But to me now a 40 year gap is wrong as some may work out but most are just after your money. Plus planning a family together with her will also be hard as it wont be fair on the kid as the father may not be around when there older.

How many 60 plus year old likes hip hop and dance music??

So what if a 20 yr old girl wants some 60 yr olds money, it still works out for them if they are both happy. People want different things from relationships, if the girl wants cash and the guy wants a 20 yr old gf then it's all good. Maybe a 60 yr old dont want a family, maybe she doesn't, there's a lot of circumstances to take into account. At the end of the day, I dont find it sick or as someone else suggested 'creepy'.

Sure its not a bit jealousy that the old boys can get a young gf just like everyone else Donz?

[Soju]

removed for consistency by IJWT

Ha ha ha! You state, "old man take advantage of a young girl" in one sentence, then turn around and say "More about money then anything else". If the girl is in it for money, then how on earth do you say the man is taking advantage of the girl? Both are getting what they want. Nobody is taking advantage of anyone. Period!

Ah, now you come around and admit that maybe they do have a few things in common. I see we're making progress now. Much better than your earlier comments about nothing in common.

When they first meet, the guy is in it for lust, so that means it's not a real relationship? Hello, earth calling Donz....you need to get out more and take a look around you.....you don't think that a majority of relationships begin with the man being in lust with the girl? Are you from the same planet as I am, because I certainly see something very different than you do going on all around.

[Soju]

No there both just using each other for one thing and usually when the money runs out she will be gone in most cases. A relationship with the girl just in it for the money and the guy just in it for the sex isnt a healthy relationship

All of us know that this situation of a relationship based only on money/sex happens in Thailand. It happens around the world. And it's not limited to only older men / younger women relationships. Nothing new there. But IMHO, you're blowing the situation way out of proportion. If they guy rushes into a relationship not thinking with his brain, he's likely to get burned whether he's old or young. Likewise if the girl rushes into the relationship she may very well just be used for sex and then dumped, regardless of whether the guy is old or not. If we were to accept your comments, it means that no older man / young woman relationships are based on love. I absolutely do not accept this concept. I've met many such couples in my life who I'd be willing to bet were in love with each other. I'm sure that in many cases the guy was primarily attracted to the girl because of her youth and beauty, and the girl may very well have been attracted to the guy because of his financial status. But in time love developed in their relationships. How can you say it's not a real relationship just because the attraction points are lust/sex and money? I'm not talking about a situation where a guy meets a girl and offers her money in exchange for sex....I'm talking about a situation where a guy sees a young and attractive girl and falls in lust with her, while the girl sees and older man who is financially secure and can provide for her and she won't have to worry about living in poverty. There may very well be no exchange of sex or money until much later in the relationship, in some cases for many months or even years until after a wedding ceremony.

I accept that a larger number of old man / young woman relationships are based on sex/money than are young man / young woman relationships. And I accept that the number of cases where no real love exists on the part of one or both is higher in the former than in the latter. But I simply don't accept that you can blindly state unequiviocally that old man / young woman relationships are wrong and that there is no love and that they are not a real relationship. They can be every bit as real, or every bit as fake as any other relationship. Relationships are extremely complicated and dependent on human beings which are all unique. You can't classify relationship into boxes and say this one is X and another one is Y. Each one is unique and should be treated differently.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Soju

[Donz]

No there both just using each other for one thing and usually when the money runs out she will be gone in most cases. A relationship with the girl just in it for the money and the guy just in it for the sex isnt a healthy relationship

All of us know that this situation of a relationship based only on money/sex happens in Thailand. It happens around the world. And it's not limited to only older men / younger women relationships. Nothing new there. But IMHO, you're blowing the situation way out of proportion. If they guy rushes into a relationship not thinking with his brain, he's likely to get burned whether he's old or young. Likewise if the girl rushes into the relationship she may very well just be used for sex and then dumped, regardless of whether the guy is old or not. If we were to accept your comments, it means that no older man / young woman relationships are based on love. I absolutely do not accept this concept. I've met many such couples in my life who I'd be willing to bet were in love with each other. I'm sure that in many cases the guy was primarily attracted to the girl because of her youth and beauty, and the girl may very well have been attracted to the guy because of his financial status. But in time love developed in their relationships. How can you say it's not a real relationship just because the attraction points are lust/sex and money? I'm not talking about a situation where a guy meets a girl and offers her money in exchange for sex....I'm talking about a situation where a guy sees a young and attractive girl and falls in lust with her, while the girl sees and older man who is financially secure and can provide for her and she won't have to worry about living in poverty. There may very well be no exchange of sex or money until much later in the relationship, in some cases for many months or even years until after a wedding ceremony.

I accept that a larger number of old man / young woman relationships are based on sex/money than are young man / young woman relationships. And I accept that the number of cases where no real love exists on the part of one or both is higher in the former than in the latter. But I simply don't accept that you can blindly state unequiviocally that old man / young woman relationships are wrong and that there is no love and that they are not a real relationship. They can be every bit as real, or every bit as fake as any other relationship. Relationships are extremely complicated and dependent on human beings which are all unique. You can't classify relationship into boxes and say this one is X and another one is Y. Each one is unique and should be treated differently.

Yeah some rare cases it does work and they may be in love but IMO its rare and nearly all are not like that. I guess its not totally wrong but mostly it is

[Soju]

Yeah some rare cases it does work and they may be in love but IMO its rare and nearly all are not like that. I guess its not totally wrong but mostly it is

I think it's time to say that we just disagree on this subject and leave it at that. I think all has been said that can be said.

[Donz]

Sure, we cant agree on everything now can we.

[Dakhar]

many young women have posters of Sean Connery on their walls

No they don't.

Yes they do, I have seen it in my sis-in-law's room. He is hunched over in a wheel chair wearing a fashionable diaper.

[LaoPo]

A 64-year-old Turkish woman has given birth to a baby boy in Istanbul

Maybe this is something to think of for our friend 'Donz'

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/0...4.94vpwg43.html

LaoPo

[britmaveric]

A 64-year-old Turkish woman has given birth to a baby boy in Istanbul

Maybe this is something to think of for our friend 'Donz'

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/0...4.94vpwg43.html

LaoPo

My grand dad was in 70's with my last uncle.

[LaoPo]

A 64-year-old Turkish woman has given birth to a baby boy in Istanbul

Maybe this is something to think of for our friend 'Donz'

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/0...4.94vpwg43.html

LaoPo

My grand dad was in 70's with my last uncle.

but I suppose your grandmom wasn't 64, was she.....?

Also: your Grand dad did it even without Viagra I suppose

Conclusion: there's still hope for a lot of guys......

LaoPo