NCPO has started well, but next phase tougher: Abhisit

[tbthailand]

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EricBerg post #7

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job.

Indeed true but why could he not do his job?

Because there was a campaign being conducted, financed and orchestrated by one person to establish a new ruling political dynasty family.

.

Abhisit failed because he was self serving and beholden to a power elite that were determined that the great mass of the Thai population should not have a valid voice in the way they were governed.

Every academic study of the last two elections has determined the last two elections were the fairest and most representative elections in Thai history - the people voted for whom they wanted in power. You may not like it, and it may not agree with your parallel-worldview, but so be. You stating otherwise over and over in these forums won't change that.

you have a good point about to whom he was beholden.

in my opinion, his one and only job had nothing to do with "ruling" - his one and only (real) job was to win the next election. This would have given the royalists and their military backers some legitimate claim to a mandate and to a democratic facade. In this he failed miserably.

Whenever the next junta constitution is ready, this gentleman will probably run for the ant-democrats again. And if the table is tilted hard enough in one direction, he might just win.

But given Abihisit's proven track record of political/campaigning incompetence, if he does win, then it will be due to an overwhelming advantage built into the system.

I'm waiting on the next constitution... I don't think the junta will make the same mistake as in the 2007 version.

[siampolee]

Snig27 post # 10

Abhisit failed because he was self serving and beholden to a power elite that were determined that the great mass of the Thai population should not have a valid voice in the way they were governed.

In reality the truth of the matter regarding that which you meant to say is written below.

Yingluck and the P.T.P. failed because they were beholden to a power motivated puppet master that was and still is no doubt determined that the great mass of the Thai population should not have a valid voice in the way they were or are to be governed if he (the puppet master) was to regain power.

[Just1Voice]

I once thought Abhist would have been a good PM for Thailand, but was quickly, and hugely, disappointed when he turned out to be nothing more than a "front man" for the real power brokers, and had no will of his own. Yeah, he's got the looks, he's got the personality, he's got the education, but he's lacking one vital thing - a spine. Just as Yingluck was "controlled" by her brother, Abhist was equally controlled by higher powers. Too bad, he could have been something good.

[greenchair]

The trouble with Thai voters and politicians from both sides,is they all don't know what kind of ruling of their country they want. Half of them are calling to the world "help us"we want democracy the same as yours. The other half is calling to the world "support us" please we don't want a democracy the same as you. the world including Asian do not know who to listen to anymore. if the Thai want a democratic country with all it's problems and shortfalls "fine " if it wants a military ruled country "fine " many countries work very well in the world with that style; Russia, Cuba,china, to name a few. The dilemma is, you cannot have both. The international community will support whatever you choose for own country. But Please Thailand make up your mind.

[ginjag]

I once thought Abhist would have been a good PM for Thailand, but was quickly, and hugely, disappointed when he turned out to be nothing more than a "front man" for the real power brokers, and had no will of his own. Yeah, he's got the looks, he's got the personality, he's got the education, but he's lacking one vital thing - a spine. Just as Yingluck was "controlled" by her brother, Abhist was equally controlled by higher powers. Too bad, he could have been something good.

Your post is the truth, lets face it and be honest---this is why we have the military in power because no one is fit to govern.

And for all the apologists here, it's no good blaming all and sundry for a miserable failed government, looking for everyone for a scapegoat, sad state of affairs.

[ginjag]

The trouble with Thai voters and politicians from both sides,is they all don't know what kind of ruling of their country they want. Half of them are calling to the world "help us"we want democracy the same as yours. The other half is calling to the world "support us" please we don't want a democracy the same as you. the world including Asian do not know who to listen to anymore. if the Thai want a democratic country with all it's problems and shortfalls "fine " if it wants a military ruled country "fine " many countries work very well in the world with that style; Russia, Cuba,china, to name a few. The dilemma is, you cannot have both. The international community will support whatever you choose for own country. But Please Thailand make up your mind.

Good post, Proof-look what they chose last time, The Thai people never learned the truth before now all is revealed they could now start to think different, but alas because they elected Shins we are in this situ. Now they will have to wait before the next real elections--their own doing--they never new before how bad their PTP was at governing.

[givenall]

I always wonder why he is in politic. He is very boarding and does not seem liking the job anyways

[DrLom]

The trouble with Thai voters and politicians from both sides,is they all don't know what kind of ruling of their country they want. Half of them are calling to the world "help us"we want democracy the same as yours. The other half is calling to the world "support us" please we don't want a democracy the same as you. the world including Asian do not know who to listen to anymore. if the Thai want a democratic country with all it's problems and shortfalls "fine " if it wants a military ruled country "fine " many countries work very well in the world with that style; Russia, Cuba,china, to name a few. The dilemma is, you cannot have both. The international community will support whatever you choose for own country. But Please Thailand make up your mind.

Fair observation, and quite true. What one can support in Abhisit's conjecture is that he would like to see NCPO transparency.

Observations of changes implemented are noted, reported, and all appear to be in the right direction; whereby, the majority of us, as farangs, like what we see. Yet, we don't see transparency in any way shape or form; we simply see resultants of new actions. None of us know what is really happening behind the scenes, or how any 'why' people are being binned, moved out of position, or running away, and so I believe Abhisit is correct to point this out.

Based upon any experience, Prayuth is still Thai, and thus may not be fully aware of what a real democracy is, if that's what he's aiming for of course?????

Abhisit was reared a Brit, lived there, and may have a better understanding of the word itself. Yet even British and American so-called democracy is clouded in corruption to some degree, and also remains opaque.

If transparency in all issues and finances could be made public, then that is indeed transparency. However, it isn't going to happen, and for all one could know, how could one know the country is not in the hands of other private factions - dictating in the same way to Prayuth?

As for Thailand needing to make up it's mind as to whether or not it is in the global community, or it is its own unneeding entity, is a definite requirement. That in itself would, I am assuming, enable Thailand to decide which laws it wants to base its ethics on - be they international or internal- or collectivistic or individualistic......... so far everything points to the latter.

Edited August 18, 2014 by DrLom

[billd766]

I think that the Democrats do have a chance to win the next election.

However to do so they need to dump Abhisit, Suthep and most of the old guard of the party leaders and find someone who can lead them properly.

The only one that I can think of is Korn Chatikavanij who could stand a good chance as PM, but the Democrats also need to come up with new ideas instead of the same old same old policies.

[Thai at Heart]

The trouble with Thai voters and politicians from both sides,is they all don't know what kind of ruling of their country they want. Half of them are calling to the world "help us"we want democracy the same as yours. The other half is calling to the world "support us" please we don't want a democracy the same as you. the world including Asian do not know who to listen to anymore. if the Thai want a democratic country with all it's problems and shortfalls "fine " if it wants a military ruled country "fine " many countries work very well in the world with that style; Russia, Cuba,china, to name a few. The dilemma is, you cannot have both. The international community will support whatever you choose for own country. But Please Thailand make up your mind.

Fair observation, and quite true. What one can support in Abhisit's conjecture is that he would like to see NCPO transparency.

Observations of changes implemented are noted, reported, and all appear to be in the right direction; whereby, the majority of us, as farangs, like what we see. Yet, we don't see transparency in any way shape or form; we simply see resultants of new actions. None of us know what is really happening behind the scenes, or how any 'why' people are being binned, moved out of position, or running away, and so I believe Abhisit is correct to point this out.

Based upon any experience, Prayuth is still Thai, and thus may not be fully aware of what a real democracy is, if that's what he's aiming for of course?????

Abhisit was reared a Brit, lived there, and may have a better understanding of the word itself. Yet even British and American so-called democracy is clouded in corruption to some degree, and also remains opaque.

If transparency in all issues and finances could be made public, then that is indeed transparency. However, it isn't going to happen, and for all one could know, how could one know the country is not in the hands of other private factions - dictating in the same way to Prayuth?

As for Thailand needing to make up it's mind as to whether or not it is in the global community, or it is its own unneeding entity, is a definite requirement. That in itself would, I am assuming, enable Thailand to decide which laws it wants to base its ethics on - be they international or internal- or collectivistic or individualistic......... so far everything points to the latter.

He was raised at Eton. That doesn't really make him a man of the people type of Brit.

[ratcatcher]

I always wonder why he is in politic. He is very boarding and does not seem liking the job anyways

"He is very boarding...."

That, unfortunately, is possible since he went to Eton which is a boarding school for young gentlemen.

[ginjag]

What an utter charlatan Abhisit it. How he can so brazenly call for elections after boycotting elections that weren't going his way.

My money is on him being the post-coup PM, with or without the popular vote.

How can your clan brazenly call for elections all the time then ??? Only you as well dare not have elections now because your lot were disgraced.

See if you get a popular vote next elections. This is all because Abhisit said the next phase will be tougher, so your clan get together on this thread to use it for your agenda ???.....again

I am not disputing his past as a leader only countering this attack on anyone that isn't what you want back.

Who started the attacks on this thread ??? and you complain if anyone disputes your agenda.

Edited August 18, 2014 by ginjag

[greenchair]

Abhisit is quite right. I think the Thai can happily go about their days with the junta in charge. But those hard fought for checks and balances on all people in power are going to be much more difficult to sweep under the carpet. Maybe even impossible when push comes to shove.

[luk AJ]

The Junta is a necessary evil, this country is unfortunately not ready for democracy, just look at the mess both camps created. Surely not at the benefit of the 60mill. + people.the only option is to run it as a private company which is also a true dictatorship. Just hope the CEO will be deciding for the benefit of the country.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[EricBerg]

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job. The present military government has accomplished way much more than Abhisit and Suthep and their government could. So his warning about the second phase is fine. Let him be silent now and wait for a long time. When the new elections come he can speak up again. But I doubt he will be competing. He's too much of an indecisive intellectual to take the lead against corruption and for standing up against the shinaclan. Reconciliation in due time can hardly be led by him either.

The Shin clan then stood for zero corruption ???? As a sound minded person he stands head and shoulders above your idol.

Zero corruption? My idol? The bad guy in Dubai???????????? He pushed corruption to a whole new level!

Seems you misread my post my friend.

As a pm Abhisit was surrounded by quite a lot of incompetent and also corrupt people. He was an integer politician. But he accomplished nothing much. A different type of leadership is needed. Prayuth so far is the only one that did/is doing well in the past years.

And yes Abhisit stands high above the shinas. But he accomplished nothing in the fight against corruption. Don't forget Suthep back then wasn't exactly a choirboy either. He cleaned up his act in fighting the reds the past period but he still has a lot to answer for. Now is the time for new leadership. That will not be the old Abhisit/Suthep leadership. Abhisit may very well be a capable minister/bureaucrat. He is no leader to fight the bad guys.

[Ricardo]

What an utter charlatan Abhisit it. How he can so brazenly call for elections after boycotting elections that weren't going his way.

My money is on him being the post-coup PM, with or without the popular vote.

I re-read the OP, but cannot see where Abhisit did "so brazenly call for elections" in the interview, as you suggest ?

In fact he seemed mildly critical or challenging of the NCPO, especially given the current restrictions on what he can say, in public.

Perhaps your red-specs are interfering with your reading & comprehension ?

Having been in the position of leading a coalition-government, and having therefore had to reconcile many conflicting groups, he might actually have some good advice for the NCPO, who are in a similar position now ?

[hgma]

Second quarter data has come out, and results are far better then anyone expected +0.9% growth (source BBC Business news) and from Thaksin to Abisith they want to join the bandwagon of public mentioning.

The fact of the matter is that the militairy's job rating has surprised everyone !

[ginjag]

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job. The present military government has accomplished way much more than Abhisit and Suthep and their government could. So his warning about the second phase is fine. Let him be silent now and wait for a long time. When the new elections come he can speak up again. But I doubt he will be competing. He's too much of an indecisive intellectual to take the lead against corruption and for standing up against the shinaclan. Reconciliation in due time can hardly be led by him either.

The Shin clan then stood for zero corruption ???? As a sound minded person he stands head and shoulders above your idol.

Zero corruption? My idol? The bad guy in Dubai???????????? He pushed corruption to a whole new level!

Seems you misread my post my friend.

As a pm Abhisit was surrounded by quite a lot of incompetent and also corrupt people. He was an integer politician. But he accomplished nothing much. A different type of leadership is needed. Prayuth so far is the only one that did/is doing well in the past years.

And yes Abhisit stands high above the shinas. But he accomplished nothing in the fight against corruption. Don't forget Suthep back then wasn't exactly a choirboy either. He cleaned up his act in fighting the reds the past period but he still has a lot to answer for. Now is the time for new leadership. That will not be the old Abhisit/Suthep leadership. Abhisit may very well be a capable minister/bureaucrat. He is no leader to fight the bad guys.

He barely had 2 years, and not a full mandate to pass anything, he was standing in for many an armhole.

Had he had a 4 year term and full power He could well have done wonders--many will disagree with this those are the kind that went hell bent to get Thaksin back, who had the resources to help fund disruption, on a thug style mega scale.

[binjalin]

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job. The present military government has accomplished way much more than Abhisit and Suthep and their government could. So his warning about the second phase is fine. Let him be silent now and wait for a long time. When the new elections come he can speak up again. But I doubt he will be competing. He's too much of an indecisive intellectual to take the lead against corruption and for standing up against the shinaclan. Reconciliation in due time can hardly be led by him either.

The Shin clan then stood for zero corruption ???? As a sound minded person he stands head and shoulders above your idol.

Zero corruption? My idol? The bad guy in Dubai???????????? He pushed corruption to a whole new level!

Seems you misread my post my friend.

As a pm Abhisit was surrounded by quite a lot of incompetent and also corrupt people. He was an integer politician. But he accomplished nothing much. A different type of leadership is needed. Prayuth so far is the only one that did/is doing well in the past years.

And yes Abhisit stands high above the shinas. But he accomplished nothing in the fight against corruption. Don't forget Suthep back then wasn't exactly a choirboy either. He cleaned up his act in fighting the reds the past period but he still has a lot to answer for. Now is the time for new leadership. That will not be the old Abhisit/Suthep leadership. Abhisit may very well be a capable minister/bureaucrat. He is no leader to fight the bad guys.

He barely had 2 years, and not a full mandate to pass anything, he was standing in for many an armhole.

Had he had a 4 year term and full power He could well have done wonders--many will disagree with this those are the kind that went hell bent to get Thaksin back, who had the resources to help fund disruption, on a thug style mega scale.

yawwwwwwwwwwwwwn more 'I love Abby' BS

[EricBerg]

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job. The present military government has accomplished way much more than Abhisit and Suthep and their government could. So his warning about the second phase is fine. Let him be silent now and wait for a long time. When the new elections come he can speak up again. But I doubt he will be competing. He's too much of an indecisive intellectual to take the lead against corruption and for standing up against the shinaclan. Reconciliation in due time can hardly be led by him either.

The Shin clan then stood for zero corruption ???? As a sound minded person he stands head and shoulders above your idol.

Zero corruption? My idol? The bad guy in Dubai???????????? He pushed corruption to a whole new level!

Seems you misread my post my friend.

As a pm Abhisit was surrounded by quite a lot of incompetent and also corrupt people. He was an integer politician. But he accomplished nothing much. A different type of leadership is needed. Prayuth so far is the only one that did/is doing well in the past years.

And yes Abhisit stands high above the shinas. But he accomplished nothing in the fight against corruption. Don't forget Suthep back then wasn't exactly a choirboy either. He cleaned up his act in fighting the reds the past period but he still has a lot to answer for. Now is the time for new leadership. That will not be the old Abhisit/Suthep leadership. Abhisit may very well be a capable minister/bureaucrat. He is no leader to fight the bad guys.

He barely had 2 years, and not a full mandate to pass anything, he was standing in for many an armhole.

Had he had a 4 year term and full power He could well have done wonders--many will disagree with this those are the kind that went hell bent to get Thaksin back, who had the resources to help fund disruption, on a thug style mega scale.

Abhisit imo is a well educated integer guy. But he is not the fighter that is needed to start rooting out the horrible maffia. In his two years he accomplished not enough. Perhaps it is partly a pr thing. Perhaps his mandate was too limited. Perhaps he is just too civilised. But if Abhisit will be the leader opposing the new shinaparty then I pity Thailand. He will not pull many traditionally "red" voters across the line. Then it may be back to square one with the new elections.

Many of the hoodlums are maintaining a low profile now. Their devious yet smart boss even ordered them to lay low. But they will be back in full force when they see the opportunity to continue plundering the country. Now is the time to let them face the consequences of their crimes: prison. If the leaders get away with it again then there will be no cure for beautiful Thailand.

[ikke]

Who is Abhisit ?

I've now been in Thailand for almost one year and I'm probably not the only one who have now idea who that Abisit fellow is and what he stands for.

Abhisit is that half Englishman , who is the best friend with Suthep and even a better friend of the General..... Furthermore he is nothing , he ever tried to run this country but it went faster down than ever before.

That is Mr.Abhisit !

[ikke]

What an utter charlatan Abhisit it. How he can so brazenly call for elections after boycotting elections that weren't going his way.

My money is on him being the post-coup PM, with or without the popular vote.

Sure, they discussed this last November, its all in the book.....

[retarius]

If 'starting well' means doing tons of PR, coming on the TV and droning on for hours, and issuing edicts that get forgotten about 5 minutes later, they I guess they started well. What about minivans at Victory? Crackdown now forgotten after publicty. What about street vendors? Pavements still full and crackdown forgotten. What about improving driving? Fines increased to greta fanfare of publicity, but zero enforcement and tea money extortion racket going on same as ever...ie crackdown forgotten. What about slavery on fishing boats? The US wanted to see some prosecutions but despite a lengthy noble sounding TV program with lots of comments about "influential groups", zero, nothing, nada has happened...the NCPO wants to harass tourists instead.

Sorry, not a very impressive start if you look for actions....an impressive start if you look for dominating the newspapers and TV screens.

[ginjag]

Who is Abhisit ?

I've now been in Thailand for almost one year and I'm probably not the only one who have now idea who that Abisit fellow is and what he stands for.

Abhisit is that half Englishman , who is the best friend with Suthep and even a better friend of the General..... Furthermore he is nothing , he ever tried to run this country but it went faster down than ever before.

That is Mr.Abhisit !

I think you are telling porky pies ikke, You have no idea who his friends are--another lie, he is nothing-another lie, The country actually did well when he was PM, another lie---now will you prove what you said or phone Abhisit and apologise. Troll-

[ginjag]

What an utter charlatan Abhisit it. How he can so brazenly call for elections after boycotting elections that weren't going his way.

My money is on him being the post-coup PM, with or without the popular vote.

Sure, they discussed this last November, its all in the book.....

Another stupid wind up post as you have no idea, or you wouldn't be betting. Did you have a bet on how wonderful PTP were going to do ?? 3 years wasted totally---utter charlatans-- ha

[tbthailand]

Mr Agenda

[wolf5370]

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EricBerg post #7

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job.

Indeed true but why could he not do his job?

Because there was a campaign being conducted, financed and orchestrated by one person to establish a new ruling political dynasty family.

.

Abhisit failed because he was self serving and beholden to a power elite that were determined that the great mass of the Thai population should not have a valid voice in the way they were governed.

Every academic study of the last two elections has determined the last two elections were the fairest and most representative elections in Thai history - the people voted for whom they wanted in power. You may not like it, and it may not agree with your parallel-worldview, but so be. You stating otherwise over and over in these forums won't change that.

What every academic (in your opinion) says about the elections in which Abhisit did not stand, is completely irrelevant to whether Abhisit could do his job or not. You just added it to blow your own trumpet - and political views. Your only argument was your first sentence. There is nothing to back it up of course, just more hot air! In the short time Abhisit was allowed to actually govern the country without Red Shirts laying siege and burning Bangkok, he managed to bring in a free medical service that was properly funded (unlike the Thaksin redesign (and balls up) of Leekpai's 30 baht scheme) - which of course was dropped instantly that PTP came to government (just too hard to make back handers with a free service - much better to charge a loss making amount that actually costs more to administrate than brings in - and fund it so badly that clinics and hospital go bust or simply refuse to provide the necessary care, as long as there is money flowing, some can slip away).

Abhisit's hands were tied with the very weak government the Dems had, with so many coalition parties biting at the bit. He would have likely been the best PM this country ever has had given the chance - but there was no way Thaksin was going to let that happen!

[tonbridgebrit]

Mr. Abhisit had his chance as pm. He could not do the job. The present military government has accomplished way much more than Abhisit and Suthep and their government could. So his warning about the second phase is fine. Let him be silent now and wait for a long time. When the new elections come he can speak up again. But I doubt he will be competing. He's too much of an indecisive intellectual to take the lead against corruption and for standing up against the shinaclan. Reconciliation in due time can hardly be led by him either.

When Abhisit was in power, he was not able to ban demonstrations against him. That's because Abhisit was the head of a civilian government. Now then, the junta are in power, the junta, they CAN ban demonstrations.

And all political parties that are in power, you're suppose to win (come first) in a general election. You're suppose to try and get as many seats as you can in parliament (through the election of MPs), and then, run the country using whatever majority of MPs in parliament. If you haven't got a majority in parliament, well, you'ill just have to form a coalition, and give a bit of power to the coalition ally. Yes, a coalition, that's what happened back home in England.

Now, if you are a junta, no need to push anything through a parliament, a parliament where some of the MPs are against you. Those MPs that are against you, they're from areas (constituencies) that voted for other parties. With a junta, there wasn't a general election to get the junta into power in the first place, hence, no need to deal with trouble-some opposition MPs in parliament.

That's why it was that Abhisit was unable to get much done. Not as if Abhisit won or came first in any general election, but that's another story.

[ginjag]

Mr Agenda

Your part of it. Or you would be more open with your posts, and not repeat and defend a regime called Shins. and the splinter group attacking Army-Abhisit perpetual motion comes to mind.

You wouldn't get the backlash from posters if you all posted as individuals rather than home in on topics that suit your agenda--yes agenda.

Why the attack on Abhisit because he states that it is going to be tougher for the army re next phase.----is it habit.???

[wolf5370]

What an utter charlatan Abhisit it. How he can so brazenly call for elections after boycotting elections that weren't going his way.

My money is on him being the post-coup PM, with or without the popular vote.

Why does one follow the other? (fair) Elections are democratic - not standing in an election is also a democratic right. No? I'd take you bet to!