Unarmed black Missouri teen killed by police was shot six times: New York Times

[sustento]

So much for having his arms and hands in the air when he was shot. Just try holding up your arm with four bullet wounds in it. And the head shot being the last shot fits in with the story from witnesses that Brown was bum rushing the policemen when the policeman fired on him. It's spelled E-X-O-N-E-R-A-T-I-O-N.

The cop was firing with vision from one eye... the kid cracked his socket just moments before.

Do you have any evidence for that statement? A link perhaps?

[beechguy]

So much for having his arms and hands in the air when he was shot. Just try holding up your arm with four bullet wounds in it. And the head shot being the last shot fits in with the story from witnesses that Brown was bum rushing the policemen when the policeman fired on him. It's spelled E-X-O-N-E-R-A-T-I-O-N.

The cop was firing with vision from one eye... the kid cracked his socket just moments before.

Do you have any evidence for that statement? A link perhaps?

Can't post a link for now, but also saw a report, x-ray included. I'll try to find another source.

Edited August 20, 2014 by beechguy

[F430murci]

So much for having his arms and hands in the air when he was shot. Just try holding up your arm with four bullet wounds in it. And the head shot being the last shot fits in with the story from witnesses that Brown was bum rushing the policemen when the policeman fired on him. It's spelled E-X-O-N-E-R-A-T-I-O-N.

The cop was firing with vision from one eye... the kid cracked his socket just moments before.

Do you have any evidence for that statement? A link perhaps?

Can't post a link for now, but also saw a report, x-ray included. I'll try to find another source.

Saying it on news. Orbital fracture and almost beaten unconscious. If true, wanna live like a thug, good riddance when you die like a thug.

[F430murci]

I am truly glad that I don't live in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. Hallelujah!

I am pretty sure that no one misses you.

Haha, for sure and all places of their troubles. So many wonderful places here, but you only hear or read about the worst.

I've been to many of the wonderful places. I still wouldn't want to live there.

Yeah, perhaps not the right place for low achievers, without higher degrees, incapable of succeeding or accepting responsibility for their own failures and who lack the looks to actually get a decent hottie. Perhaps Thailand or other places may be more palpable.

Now if your decent looking, smart, educated, willing to work hard, wanna make lots of $$$, drive Italian sports cars, can actually talk to and date hot women with a brain, wanna buy nice homes, boats and do anything and go anywhere in the world you want, the US is the place to be.

[canman]

Can't post a link for now, but also saw a report, x-ray included. I'll try to find another source.

Saying it on news. Orbital fracture and almost beaten unconscious. If true, wanna live like a thug, good riddance when you die like a thug.

The story is here, complete with x-ray http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown

Seems to be the only site carrying the story with other sites referencing back to it.

I have my doubts about this story, time will tell.

[zydeco]

The cop was firing with vision from one eye... the kid cracked his socket just moments before.

Do you have any evidence for that statement? A link perhaps?

Can't post a link for now, but also saw a report, x-ray included. I'll try to find another source.

Saying it on news. Orbital fracture and almost beaten unconscious. If true, wanna live like a thug, good riddance when you die like a thug.

At the very least, MB refused to obey a lawful police order and then resisted the police. If the above is true, then include physical assault and perhaps attempted murder of a police officer. Add that to the list of what we already know: robber, gangsta rapper, bully, drug user and what does it all add up to? Answer: career criminal. Everybody in the USA should be relieved that this thing is off the streets.

[NeverSure]

There seems to be some misunderstanding among some about the laws in this case.

There's talk of gunpowder burns (or not.) It's irrelevant. If the perp had assaulted the police officer and seemed to be returning, the officer couldn't risk letting they guy get close to him again and maybe seriously injuring him or even try to take his gun. His job was to stop him.

The number of shots fired is irrelevant. The officer is trained that if he decides to shoot, he continues to shoot until the the threat in neutralized.

If the perp was unarmed it's irrelevant. He was armed with a large body and had shown a willingness to use it. The threat of serious bodily injury by any means gives the cop a green light to shoot.

That guy didn't have to die. Even though he had strong-arm robbed a store, if he had done what the police told him to do instead of going neanderthal on them, he'd be alive in a jail cell.

[samran]

Interesting to see the usual second amendment defenders sticking up for overbearing government.

I guess militarised cops don't meet that definition.

Edited August 21, 2014 by samran

[FritsSikkink]

That's the only way to stop a 300 lbs behemoth with issues against the 'Man'...

Do like the police in other country's do and shout him in the legs.

[NeverSure]

Interesting to see the usual second amendment defenders sticking up for overbearing government.

I guess militarised cops don't meet that definition.

You usually make very good posts but you lost me on this. What does "second amendment" or "militarized cops" have to do with a cop, working alone, using his handgun to stop a perp?

[samran]

Interesting to see the usual second amendment defenders sticking up for overbearing government.

I guess militarised cops don't meet that definition.

You usually make very good posts but you lost me on this. What does "second amendment" or "militarized cops" have to do with a cop, working alone, using his handgun to stop a perp?

I try.

Stikes me that if you are going to have to shoot someone 6 times to stop someone then your training is somewhat wasted, perhaps due to an over reliance on an over abundance of blunt tools rather than using them with a bit of strategy and, well brains. Cops are supposed to be fast on their feet and quick thinkers to neutralise a threat, not extinguish it, unless their own lives are in immediate danger.

I'd be sending the copper to Belfast for some remedial training with the Provisional IRA. Kneecapping in particular.

And if a militarised police force isn't what you'd define as overbearing government, I don't know what is. And if the logic and the usual justification of the second ammendment is to hold, then defending these clowns shouldn't be somethign anyone does.

Edited August 21, 2014 by samran

[JockPieandBeans]

That's the only way to stop a 300 lbs behemoth with issues against the 'Man'...

Do like the police in other country's do and shout him in the legs.

In all the Countries in the world that I been to.

I have never witnessed a policeman anywhere shouting at someones legs.

Sorry Fritts, I know it was a typo, I just couldn't help myself.

[NeverSure]

Interesting to see the usual second amendment defenders sticking up for overbearing government.

I guess militarised cops don't meet that definition.

You usually make very good posts but you lost me on this. What does "second amendment" or "militarized cops" have to do with a cop, working alone, using his handgun to stop a perp?

I try.

Stikes me that if you are going to have to shoot someone 6 times to stop someone then your training is somewhat wasted, perhaps due to an over reliance on an over abundance of blunt tools rather than using them with a bit of strategy and, well brains. Cops are supposed to be fast on their feet and quick thinkers to neutralise a threat, not extinguish it, unless their own lives are in immediate danger.

I'd be sending the copper to Belfast for some remedial training with the Provisional IRA. Kneecapping in particular.

And if a militarised police force isn't what you'd define as overbearing government, I don't know what is. And if the logic and the usual justification of the second ammendment is to hold, then defending these clowns shouldn't be somethign anyone does.

You're still losing me. The Second Amendment has to do with private citizens bearing arms and I see no mention of that here. It seems totally off-topic to me. ??

How can an "overbearing government" be "militarized police?" In this thread, and on-topic, this lone policeman had a handgun - hardly militarized.

It "strikes you," but any handgun is wimpy compared to any centerfire rifle. It's not certain to stop someone. The police carry them because they are better than nothing and easy to carry in a holster. The army has a saying: "A handgun is what you use to fight your way to your rifle."

A handgun is also very hard to be accurate with, especially if you're under stress or hurried.

Officers are trained to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized. Period.

Is it possible that you don't have a lot of experience with guns?

One Bullet Can Kill, but Sometimes 20 Don’t, Survivors Show

By JOHN ELIGON

Published: April 3, 2008

Nathaniel Brooks for The New York Times LINK

"A man in North Carolina was shot roughly 20 times in 1995 and lived to tell about it. The rapper 50 Cent was shot nine times in 2000 and has since released three albums. And in 2006, Joseph Guzman survived 19 gunshot wounds during the 50-shot fusillade by police detectives that killed Sean Bell.

Kenny Vaughan was shot about 20 times outside his home in 1995. “I asked the Lord not to hit me in my heart and head,” said Mr. Vaughan, who said he never lost consciousness."

Edited August 21, 2014 by NeverSure

[chuckd]

Officer Wilson, according to reports, had already suffered a fractured eye socket following an assault by Brown and a fight for the Officer's gun.

Perhaps he felt a real fear for his life and, with his impaired vision, felt six shots were going to be necessary to stop a 140 kilo madman.

What would "some" posters do in the exact same situation, is the real question.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies deleted. Please don't respond to baiting posts.

[Publicus]

Officer Wilson, according to reports, had already suffered a fractured eye socket following an assault by Brown and a fight for the Officer's gun.

Perhaps he felt a real fear for his life and, with his impaired vision, felt six shots were going to be necessary to stop a 140 kilo madman.

What would "some" posters do in the exact same situation, is the real question.

You're not a cop and I'm not a cop so don't even think about trying to put any one here in the shoes of Officer Wilson who is also a killer cop.

I'd like to see Wilson come out of hiding because he's a police officer of a community that pays his salary. Wilson is not some CIA agent or some such who needs to work anonymously and out of sight. We could also see his face damaged or not.

Three were involved in what is generally agreed was a scuffle between Wilson and Brown with Brown's friend Dorian Johnson standing right there. Johnson says Wilson pulled his gun. We know Brown was unarmed, same as Johnson.

The fact is Michael Brown is not the one or only young black man to be shot to death by police while being unarmed and holding his arms up in the air surrendering.

The killing of Brown is in fact the first high profile instance of this locally reported police crime throughout the United States.

And it's normal routine in each case for the police to boldface deny the young unarmed black man they killed held his hands in the air to surrender. It's also the pattern that the police invent the lie the young black man they shot and killed advanced menacingly toward them

Exactly How Often Do Police Shoot Unarmed Black Men?

The killing in Ferguson was one of many such cases. Here's what the data reveal

The killing of Michael Brown by police in Ferguson, Missouri, was no anomaly: As we reported yesterday, Brown is one of at least four unarmed black men who died at the hands of police in the last month alone. There are many more cases from years past.

As Jeffrey Mittman, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Missouri chapter put it in a statement of condolence to Brown's family, "Unarmed African-American men are shot and killed by police at an alarming rate. This pattern must stop."

http://www.motherjon...guson-black-men

The article I linked in my previous post that you cite above quotes Mike Prysner, a director of the Los Angles chapter of Answer, an anti-racism group.....

A big element in the police killings, Prysner says, is racism. “A big majority of those killed are Latinos and Black people,” while the police officers are mostly White, he said. “It’s a badge of honor to shoot gang members so [the police] go out and shoot people who look like gang members,” Prysner argued, giving the example of 34-year-old Rigoberto Arceo, who was killed by police on May 11.

The Los Angeles Times article linked below reports Arceo was stopped at night outside his home by LAPD in a police trap that totaled 5 seconds. Arceo was unarmed, raised his arms in the air and then was shot to death by the police. Arceo died hours later at the St. Francis Medical Center where he was a biomedical technician.

Family Disputes Sheriff’s Account in Fatal Shooting

Arceo’s sister and 53-year-old Armando Garcia — who was barbecuing in his yard when the incident happened — say that Arceo had his hands above his head the entire time

Less than a week after Arceo was killed, Armando Garcia, 53, said he watched as the confrontation unfolded, illuminated by a nearby streetlight. He said he will never forget Arceo’s hands falling as his body slumped to the ground.

http://homicide.lati...smile-and-wave/

It's Open Season for the police twelve months a year coast to coast, border to border and there are people around here who love it.

[F430murci]

Publicus states:

"It's Open Season for the police twelve months a year coast to coast, border to border and there are people around here who love it."

Delusional thought process driven purely by emotion as opposed to any rational, objective analytical thought process comparable to that experienced by a women during her menstraul cycle except Publicus has accomplished the unthinkable and attained such a state of heightened emotional awareness 24/7 365 days a year.

[Chicog]

This is the St. Louis shooting.

Looking at this I really don't see how his actions justify NINE shots. At that range one in the kneecap would have brought him down. I think they need to revise their training methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_aniCnAVw8

Edited August 21, 2014 by Chicog

[F430murci]

This is the St. Louis shooting.

Looking at this I really don't see how his actions justify NINE shots. At that range one in the kneecap would have brought him down. I think they need to revise their training methods.

Knee cap is not a large target of a moving object. If some crazy person is coming at you with a knife you are likely to aim where you have best chance of hitting. I think it hard to judge that scenario unless you have actually been in the position.

Lesson here, don't charge someone with a gun carrying a knife, be they cop or citizen, and you won't get shot.

[Ulysses G.]

Looking at this I really don't see how his actions justify NINE shots. At that range one in the kneecap would have brought him down. I think they need to revise their training methods.

Are police anywhere in the world trained to shoot at a suspects' kneecap? I always thought it was the chest or head.

[JDGRUEN]

I am quite pleased to see that this topic thread has morphed into total silliness and non productive discussion - which means it will soon disintegrate and die out from disinterest or the admin/mods will close it as a humane gesture...

[Scott]

Troll post and replies deleted.

[Publicus]

Publicus states:

"It's Open Season for the police twelve months a year coast to coast, border to border and there are people around here who love it."

Delusional thought process driven purely by emotion as opposed to any rational, objective analytical thought process comparable to that experienced by a women during her menstraul cycle except Publicus has accomplished the unthinkable and attained such a state of heightened emotional awareness 24/7 365 days a year.

[Publicus]

I am quite pleased to see that this topic thread has morphed into total silliness and non productive discussion - which means it will soon disintegrate and die out from disinterest or the admin/mods will close it as a humane gesture...

Your post is testimony you and your guys aren't doing very well here.

Begging the mods to close the thread.

[rice555]

I am quite pleased to see that this topic thread has morphed into total silliness and non productive discussion - which means it will soon disintegrate and die out from disinterest or the admin/mods will close it as a humane gesture...

Your post is testimony you and your guys aren't doing very well here.

Begging the mods to close the thread.

What your bring into the discution has nothing to do with this thread. If this was a court

case, all of your points would be thrown out, unless it was the same officer, which it's not.

Aim for center body mass and shoot till it's not a threat.

rice555

[JDGRUEN]

Thanks to the BGI (Black Grievance Industry) this is ALL about spinning the truth so the family and the leeches surrounding them can get paid just like they did in the Trayvon Martin case. Let's compare the two:

• The age of both was originally misreported. Trayvon was 13, then 15, then 16 and eventually 17. Mike Brown was 17 in most original reports, and then eventually 18.

• Both Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin were at a convenience store immediately before the shooting.

• Both Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin were legally represented by attorney Benjamin Crump, from the Law Firm of Parks and Crump.

• For both shootings Benjamin Crump enlisted the assistance of MSNBC and Al Sharpton.

• Al Sharpton enlisted the AME church network, and Jamal Bryant in both shootings.

• Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton called for the NAACP’s assistance.

• The New Black Panther Party involved themselves in both shootings.

• The congressional Black Caucus involved themselves in both shootings.
• Neither Brown nor Martin lived in the neighborhood where they were staying. Martin was from Miami Gardens (shot in Sanford), and Brown did not live in Ferguson.

• Brown was staying with his Grandmother, Martin was staying with his dad’s girlfriend.

• In Both cases the media use the catch phrase “unarmed teenager”.

• The media called both “a child”, and a “minor child”.

• Both Brown and Martin families refused to help local police officers and demanded federal intervention.

• Eric Holder used the FBI and the Civil Rights Division “Community Relations Service” (CRS) in both cases.

• The CRS enlisted the Dream Defenders in both cases.

• Benjamin Crump, initially, would not allow witnesses to talk to local authorities in both cases.

• Both Martin and Brown had their social media history scrubbed.

• Both Martin and Brown had their juvenile criminal records sealed.

• Initial statements from police were that both Brown and Martin threw the first confrontational punch.

• President Obama made a highly public statement in both cases.

• Both shootings happened in an election year.

• Both shootings preceded requests for legislative changes.

• Media initially claimed both Trayvon and Brown were shot in the back.

• Media ignore, overlook, or initially don’t question the injuries sustained by the shooter.

• The issue in Trayvon Martin case was whether lethal force was necessary, but that discussion was buried under the racial elements (both of Zimmerman being white and Trayvon being black). The issue here is also whether a police officer had a right to defend himself, but that investigation is completely buried by the issue of race.

• Both Martin and Brown came from broken families, yet both were sold to media -by Crump- as intact family units.

• In both events, Howard University (dream defenders) at the heart of the national media narrative.

• In both events Ben Crump accused the police of a cover-up.

• Benjamin Crump immediately says he’s going to have a second autopsy.

• Both Martin and Brown had false narrative about how long their body was unattended. Brown meme was “laid in the street for hours”. Martin meme was “laid in morgue unidentified for 3 days”.

• Both families immediately had T-Shirts printed up with catch phrases. “Justice for Trayvon” (trademarked by Sybrina Fulton), and “Hands Up Don’t Shoot” for Mike Brown.

• In both events the New Black Panther Party was handing out flyers within 24 hours.

• Both Martin and Brown had quick narrative constructed of personality “good kid”, “aspiring astronaut”, “no trouble”, etc.

• Both Martin and Brown were black.

• Both Martin and Brown were unemployed.

• Initial media physical descriptions of both Martin and Brown were horribly false and unchallenged due to “child” narrative affixed to both.

The truth has NO agenda, but the BGI does. Unfortunately too many black people have been brainwashed by their so-called leaders. They can no longer think outside the box and that is exactly where people like Al and the rest of the BGI players want them to stay. It’s called job security

Life is tough-- It's even tougher if you're stupid! John Wayne, "

[samran]

Thanks to the BGI (Black Grievance Industry) this is ALL about spinning the truth so the family and the leeches surrounding them can get paid just like they did in the Trayvon Martin case. Let's compare the two:

• The age of both was originally misreported. Trayvon was 13, then 15, then 16 and eventually 17. Mike Brown was 17 in most original reports, and then eventually 18.

• Both Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin were at a convenience store immediately before the shooting.

• Both Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin were legally represented by attorney Benjamin Crump, from the Law Firm of Parks and Crump.

• For both shootings Benjamin Crump enlisted the assistance of MSNBC and Al Sharpton.

• Al Sharpton enlisted the AME church network, and Jamal Bryant in both shootings.

• Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton called for the NAACP’s assistance.

• The New Black Panther Party involved themselves in both shootings.

• The congressional Black Caucus involved themselves in both shootings.

• Neither Brown nor Martin lived in the neighborhood where they were staying. Martin was from Miami Gardens (shot in Sanford), and Brown did not live in Ferguson.

• Brown was staying with his Grandmother, Martin was staying with his dad’s girlfriend.

• In Both cases the media use the catch phrase “unarmed teenager”.

• The media called both “a child”, and a “minor child”.

• Both Brown and Martin families refused to help local police officers and demanded federal intervention.

• Eric Holder used the FBI and the Civil Rights Division “Community Relations Service” (CRS) in both cases.

• The CRS enlisted the Dream Defenders in both cases.

• Benjamin Crump, initially, would not allow witnesses to talk to local authorities in both cases.

• Both Martin and Brown had their social media history scrubbed.

• Both Martin and Brown had their juvenile criminal records sealed.

• Initial statements from police were that both Brown and Martin threw the first confrontational punch.

• President Obama made a highly public statement in both cases.

• Both shootings happened in an election year.

• Both shootings preceded requests for legislative changes.

• Media initially claimed both Trayvon and Brown were shot in the back.

• Media ignore, overlook, or initially don’t question the injuries sustained by the shooter.

• The issue in Trayvon Martin case was whether lethal force was necessary, but that discussion was buried under the racial elements (both of Zimmerman being white and Trayvon being black). The issue here is also whether a police officer had a right to defend himself, but that investigation is completely buried by the issue of race.

• Both Martin and Brown came from broken families, yet both were sold to media -by Crump- as intact family units.

• In both events, Howard University (dream defenders) at the heart of the national media narrative.

• In both events Ben Crump accused the police of a cover-up.

• Benjamin Crump immediately says he’s going to have a second autopsy.

• Both Martin and Brown had false narrative about how long their body was unattended. Brown meme was “laid in the street for hours”. Martin meme was “laid in morgue unidentified for 3 days”.

• Both families immediately had T-Shirts printed up with catch phrases. “Justice for Trayvon” (trademarked by Sybrina Fulton), and “Hands Up Don’t Shoot” for Mike Brown.

• In both events the New Black Panther Party was handing out flyers within 24 hours.

• Both Martin and Brown had quick narrative constructed of personality “good kid”, “aspiring astronaut”, “no trouble”, etc.

• Both Martin and Brown were black.

• Both Martin and Brown were unemployed.

• Initial media physical descriptions of both Martin and Brown were horribly false and unchallenged due to “child” narrative affixed to both.

The truth has NO agenda, but the BGI does. Unfortunately too many black people have been brainwashed by their so-called leaders. They can no longer think outside the box and that is exactly where people like Al and the rest of the BGI players want them to stay. It’s called job security

Life is tough-- It's even tougher if you're stupid! John Wayne, "

Black grievance industry. Is that a bit like the Angry White Men industry? (motto: we yell at the sky).

What a pathetic post. At least have the decency to source it, in this case a Neo conservative website pushing its own agenda....you know, like the grievance industry you proclaim to mock...

Edited August 21, 2014 by samran

[Publicus]

I am quite pleased to see that this topic thread has morphed into total silliness and non productive discussion - which means it will soon disintegrate and die out from disinterest or the admin/mods will close it as a humane gesture...

Your post is testimony you and your guys aren't doing very well here.

Begging the mods to close the thread.

What your bring into the discution has nothing to do with this thread. If this was a court

case, all of your points would be thrown out, unless it was the same officer, which it's not.

Aim for center body mass and shoot till it's not a threat.

rice555

The Army Infantry taught me about taking someone down and I taught others how to do it. You wanna discuss it further?

This is an open opinion discussion forum, not a court of law nor is it a lawyer's office.

I bring reality to the thread not extreme right wing fantastic fanatical fiction. Closing the thread is not a bad idea except these guys will take all the rope they're given so there's a value in that to readers who visit to read the threads with an open mind or that are undecided, those who seldom or rarely post.

The truth wins out......

.....sooner or later.....

Persistence, perspiration, perseverance.

Same as them.

But more.

[jacky54]

The kid should have looked at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ

[zydeco]

I am quite pleased to see that this topic thread has morphed into total silliness and non productive discussion - which means it will soon disintegrate and die out from disinterest or the admin/mods will close it as a humane gesture...

Your post is testimony you and your guys aren't doing very well here.

Begging the mods to close the thread.

What your bring into the discution has nothing to do with this thread. If this was a court

case, all of your points would be thrown out, unless it was the same officer, which it's not.

Aim for center body mass and shoot till it's not a threat.

rice555

The Army Infantry taught me about taking someone down and I taught others how to do it. You wanna discuss it further?

This is an open opinion discussion forum, not a court of law nor is it a lawyer's office.

I bring reality to the thread not extreme right wing fantastic fanatical fiction. Closing the thread is not a bad idea except these guys will take all the rope they're given so there's a value in that to readers who visit to read the threads with an open mind or that are undecided, those who seldom or rarely post.

The truth wins out......

.....sooner or later.....

Persistence, perspiration, perseverance.

Same as them.

But more.

Ever see combat? I doubt it. Probably a parade ground soldier or a perfumed prince, as David Hackworth used to call the lounge lizards in the Pentagon who themselves never went into a combat zone unless it was to earn a combat ribbon from the safety of HQ.