Thailand at crossroads, foreign experts warn

[fullcave]

"Respected foreign voices” and "experts"......

​You can’t make this s--t up folks!!

[rebeli]

Democracy sucks.

Its just to keep the people happy.

[DrLom]

"Claudio Sopranzetti, a post-doctoral fellow at Oxford University and an anthropologist specialising in Thailand, said the Kingdom was facing an open-ended future and could emerge either more democratic or less.

Sopranzetti cited Thai newspapers back in 1920, which were critical of the monarchy - the opposite of the situation today."

A post-doctoral 'fellow' of Oxford.... comes up with; "the Kingdom was facing an open-ended future and could emerge either more democratic or less".... ??? Wow - that's a detailed observation worthy of an Oxbride PhD no less.

Critical of the monarchy.... not present today, but was in the 1920s?? I wonder why that is; Limited freedom of speech, perhaps, or lese majeste charges introduced in recent years and acted upon in harsh ways??

Codswallop from another PhD copier/plagiarist of earlier nonsense writing... Well done Sopranzetti!

[rebeli]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

[Utley]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

You need a simple majority in the Electoral College to become President of the U.S. If no candidate obtains that majority, it is up to the House of Representatives to decide.

And what exactly do you mean by "almost"?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Utley

[rebeli]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

You need a simple majority in the Electoral College to become President of the U.S. If no candidate obtains that majority, it is up to the House of Representatives to decide.

And what exactly do you mean by "almost"?

If you win 51% of the votes in one state you get all the votes from the voting man of that state. So if you say <deleted> you to 49% of the states and win the others with a 51% majority. You only have 25.5% of all votes and still have 51% of the voting man. Enough to become the next president.

Ach if you think americans are holy, so be it. Have met many Americans around the world who claimed to be Canadian because they where embarrassed by their country.

[bkkfaranguy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Vote buying will never lead to democracy,and thats a very

big problem in Thailand.it means the side with the most

money wins,

regards Worgeordie

Then why have the Democrats not won an election in ages?

Because they are relatively poor. They don't have a super rich owner.

LOL you are either being sarcastic or are truly out of touch, the Dems and there backers wealth far outweigh the fugitive in Dubai and his cronies!

[Bakseeda]

The only reason Democracy is difgicult in Thailand is due to the Dem/ Military "Allegiance". Its an obvious pattern time & time agsin. Dems are minority/ wamt power/ Cause political turmoil as a setup/ prelude for the "Brother" military to step in. It it endless!!

Not quite that simple Drand.... TRT and PTP were given a fair chance to rule here.. they just could not stop the theivery ! Quite the opposite, it grew and grew and corruption ran rife. The middle classes who were watching their tax-moneys dissapear into the Thaksin gangs bank accounts had had enough ... Up comes Suthep. If Yinluck had been strong enough to stop the looting by her brothers cronies this coup would NEVER have happened. PTP certainly failed the peoples miserably. Something had to happen and what the Thai peoples have now is the result. I do however have a feeling that this coup was very well planned coming from The Privy Council all the way down to the foot soldiers. Prem and Cha-och-a spent a lot of time organising the rout of PTP... but PTP had their chance and completely let down their voters and asked for what came.

I personally do not like the Thai situation as it is and I am thinking of selling up and moving on.

[Utley]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

You need a simple majority in the Electoral College to become President of the U.S. If no candidate obtains that majority, it is up to the House of Representatives to decide.

And what exactly do you mean by "almost"?

If you win 51% of the votes in one state you get all the votes from the voting man of that state. So if you say <deleted> you to 49% of the states and win the others with a 51% majority. You only have 25.5% of all votes and still have 51% of the voting man. Enough to become the next president.

Ach if you think americans are holy, so be it. Have met many Americans around the world who claimed to be Canadian because they where embarrassed by their country.

I never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Utley

[nong38]

Democracy as we know it coming from the West will never work in Thailand.

For Thai politicians democracy means access to 'hands in the till'

One can understand how one can easily come to this conclusion, especially this 2nd one, even Gen Prayuth is asking "officials" to justify how they came by these trappings of the rich, when they themselves are not on the rate that supports it. You are right a western democratic system may/will not work in the country, they need to come up with a system that Thailand can work with and western countries need to understand and accept that.

[lust]

I was a foreign expert once just like yourselves, but then I took an arrow to the knee..

[Eliot Rosewater]

They aren't ready for democracy.

You can't be ready for something that you don't really want in the first place. They just want to be treated by the superpowers that be; like a democratic country; whilst not really understanding what democracy and it's ramifications really mean.

[djjamie]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Vote buying will never lead to democracy,and thats a very

big problem in Thailand.it means the side with the most

money wins,

regards Worgeordie

Then why have the Democrats not won an election in ages?

Because they are relatively poor. They don't have a super rich owner.

LOL you are either being sarcastic or are truly out of touch, the Dems and there backers wealth far outweigh the fugitive in Dubai and his cronies!

Subsidies for rice farmers and other unsustainable populist policies helped Thaksin and his allies win the last five elections with support from the vast northeast of the country.

I remember an article just after the 2011 elections that quoted a farmer as saying "If the DEM's offered 41% above market value for rice we would have voted for them" So if the DEM's offered 1% more in rice subsidies they would have won the election. Why didn't the DEM's offer this? They hold fiscal discipline and economic stability in higher regard than unsustainable policies to bribe the voters. What a sacrifice to put your country first even when it means losing an election. That, my friends, is a sacrifice that Jatuporn, the accused terrorist leader of the PTP terrorist wing would never understand.

So when I read about Thailand being at a cross roads I envisage a cross road that ensures UNsustainable policies do not damage the country in the long term while lining the pockets of the PTP elite. Oh yes, they are elite. A cross road were policies will in fact help the poor to an extent that will allow them to be self sufficient as per Buhdda Isaara's model. Because mark my words, when Shin lead governments have injected 1.5 trillion baht into schemes over 14 years that purport to help the poor rice farmer yet the farmers they purport to help miss one payment…I will reinforce that by repeating it, they missed ONE payment from the government forcing some farmers to commit suicide while the rest travelled to Bangkok to protest. Doesn't sound like they are prospering. When 2.59 million of the poorest farmers are not eligible for the scheme that is not helping the poor farmers yet it is perceived too does not make them prosperous. Where is this welcome cross roads that will lead them out of this perpetual poverty under a guise of assistance that lead the regime to win the election to allow anything but democracy to flourish for the next 2 years?

​The cross road is a welcome site for most including farmers. Who does not want to be self sufficient? It is only the bitter few that live in the terroristic shadows of the past that go against the grain and hope the cross road never arrives.

Edited August 19, 2014 by djjamie

[rebeli]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

You need a simple majority in the Electoral College to become President of the U.S. If no candidate obtains that majority, it is up to the House of Representatives to decide.

And what exactly do you mean by "almost"?

If you win 51% of the votes in one state you get all the votes from the voting man of that state. So if you say you to 49% of the states and win the others with a 51% majority. You only have 25.5% of all votes and still have 51% of the voting man. Enough to become the next president.

Ach if you think americans are holy, so be it. Have met many Americans around the world who claimed to be Canadian because they where embarrassed by their country.

I never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Only idiots can post like that.

[marios]

Democracy as we know it coming from the West will never work in Thailand.

For Thai politicians democracy means access to 'hands in the till'

This is true, unfortunately, to all third world world countries who are 'democracies'. They simply vote for the thieves and oppressors for the next 4 or five years.

The tragedy is that many ex communist block countries together with 'seasoned' democracies in the Balkans do exactly the same. So graft and corruption is not a Thai phenomenon.

[sweatalot]

"Respected foreign voices invited to speak about Thailand's political footing have warned that the country faces an uncertain future. "

I would prefer an uncertain future above a certain future with criminals and corrupt runnig the country.

After ptp in government and their vote manipulating machinery in place what worse could have happened?

[djjamie]

"Though the military used the potential of an escalation in violence as the reason behind the coup, Knuth said it could have upheld the democratic process by protecting election sites instead of seizing power."

I look forward to the ex Defence Minister yingluck explaining to the population why she did not order the military to protect the polling booths.

Maybe it is because she did not feel the need for the military. She did state here "Even though protests are going on, I believe you can go out and vote," That sounds like she was confident in the 10 000 strong police force that was tasked to secure polling booths. She followed that comment on with "I ask everyone involved in the election, particularly security forces, to ensure that people can go out and vote." Did she ask the military in her capacity as Defence Minister? No? Of course not. She was confident the 10 000 strong police force could handle it.

Even Chalerm stated in the same article "security forces will be ready for any unrest. Sounds like the PTP had everything under control and polling day would be hunky dory!

Maybe, just maybe yingluck, chalerm and the rest of the Brady bunch are incompetent and had no idea what was required.

So when I read "Knuth said it (the army) could have upheld the democratic process by protecting election sites instead of seizing power." I know that is an "evolved" PTP cop out excuse brought to you by a party that also brought terrorism to the streets of Bangkok.

It also tells me that the scary tactics of strict media censorship that disallows criticism of the Junta spouted by red apologists is just that. Scare tactics. As some suggest maybe we need 4 independent news articles to verify that the army should have stopped violence on polling day just as they demand independent articles when shinning the Junta in a good light because they refuse to believe them. They won't however. They will completely believe this article because it suits their agenda. No independent articles required here apparently.

HYPOCRITES.

Edited August 19, 2014 by djjamie

[somo]

Subsidies for rice farmers and other unsustainable populist policies helped Thaksin and his allies win the last five elections with support from the vast northeast of the country.

I remember an article just after the 2011 elections that quoted a farmer as saying "If the DEM's offered 41% above market value for rice we would have voted for them" So if the DEM's offered 1% more in rice subsidies they would have won the election. Why didn't the DEM's offer this? They hold fiscal discipline and economic stability in higher regard than unsustainable policies to bribe the voters. What a sacrifice to put your country first even when it means losing an election. That, my friends, is a sacrifice that Jatuporn, the accused terrorist leader of the PTP terrorist wing would never understand.

So when I read about Thailand being at a cross roads I envisage a cross road that ensures UNsustainable policies do not damage the country in the long term while lining the pockets of the PTP elite. Oh yes, they are elite. A cross road were policies will in fact help the poor to an extent that will allow them to be self sufficient as per Buhdda Isaara's model. Because mark my words, when Shin lead governments have injected 1.5 trillion baht into schemes over 14 years that purport to help the poor rice farmer yet the farmers they purport to help miss one payment…I will reinforce that by repeating it, they missed ONE payment from the government forcing some farmers to commit suicide while the rest travelled to Bangkok to protest. Doesn't sound like they are prospering. When 2.59 million of the poorest farmers are not eligible for the scheme that is not helping the poor farmers yet it is perceived too does not make them prosperous. Where is this welcome cross roads that will lead them out of this perpetual poverty under a guise of assistance that lead the regime to win the election to allow anything but democracy to flourish for the next 2 years?

​The cross road is a welcome site for most including farmers. Who does not want to be self sufficient? It is only the bitter few that live in the terroristic shadows of the past that go against the grain and hope the cross road never arrives.

I am having trouble taking your post seriously and find it laughable

On the basis of a one person survey you think that the Dems could so easily have won the last election but

their principles alone stopped them and they sacrificed themselves in order to maintain their integrity. Are you really so naive or were you joking? Politicians don't have any integrity don't you know that. They will do anything to win and justify that by claiming they are the better able to govern.

An election surveys the total electorate and that's why democracies have them but you choose to disregard that one in favour of the view of a farmer who the Dems think is too stupid to be allowed to vote.

[tbthailand]

The people who drew up the American constitution were wise as well as brave. Nothing is perfect but despite erosion Americans still enjoy more freedoms than most others. They recognized the need for the people to have rights that would prevent central government slowly changing things to get total control.

Maybe that's why Americans have given so much to the world in the fields of science, the arts, sports, and been one of, if not the most innovative country over the last century or so.

How can you write such a story like americans are almost holy.

American democracy sucks. You only need 26 % of the votes to becoming president. Is that democracy.

Spying on Americans and all over the world.

you are obviously not an American and for that we'll forgive you.

You are also amazingly uninformed. For that you should remain silent until you have real information.

[JAG]

They aren't ready for democracy.

The people at the top aren't ready for democracy, as they have shown 4 times this century.

The rest of the people are denied the chance to enjoy it.

[icare999]

save us from so called experts total shams most of them and i should know i used to be one in my field. I always found it amusing that people believed crap i totally made up.

[ABCer]

1) I am not a staunch unconditional supporter of 'Democracy'.

2) I have no objections to a benevolent ruler in Thailand whoever that may be.

3) I believe the 'Democracy' today in many countries is misunderstood.

4) Most people believe it to be the derivative of majority. Hence vote buying.

5) Democracy is primarily based on Rule of Law and Responsibility. Thailand is yet to see these concepts.

6) The above concepts cannot be imported or enforced in present climate.

[ramrod711]

He pointed out that there were better solutions for the Kingdom than staging a coup.

Well, yes, but apparently sending a hit man to Dubai would be frowned on by world leaders.

[tbthailand]

"Military intervention had been used "as a political strategy" by People's Democratic Reform Committee protesters, who were calling for a coup and were expecting it, he said."

The man has eyes and ears and a brain to connect them.

Good job!

[Alwyn]

Vote buying will never lead to democracy,and thats a very

big problem in Thailand.it means the side with the most

money wins,

regards Worgeordie

It works in the UK. Trade Unions being bought by labour.. Members of the union being forced to vote in the way the union says they have to vote or be expelled from the union.. It's not exactly a new concept

[Alwyn]

"Claudio Sopranzetti, a post-doctoral fellow at Oxford University and an anthropologist specialising in Thailand, said the Kingdom was facing an open-ended future and could emerge either more democratic or less.".... Well thanks for that insightful statement, it's a good job he's not sitting on the fence then...

[wwest5829]

Vote buying will never lead to democracy,and thats a very

big problem in Thailand.it means the side with the most

money wins,

regards Worgeordie

As opposed to, say, the U.S. where the highest spending on media advertising and coverage most often wins the election. The longer I live outside the U.S., the more open to alternatives I become. For me, the most important "other shoe" has yet to fall. This time, the Thai coup cycle will have another wild card to deal with before too long. Politically, Thailand has yet to face it's most critical test.

[nong38]

Democracies are great so long as I win and the crossroads are actually a roundabout, synical ot aren't we!

I do hope that the Junta are staright and transparent and they do get things sorted out, but, remember the todo about the price of lottery tickets that suddenly dropped from 100+ to 80 or the licences were to be withdrawn? They are back at 100 where I am. I dont buy them buy the way but it seems as though the point was made , the time has passed and we revert to normal practice.

[phantomfiddler]

The military stepped in and averted an almost certain civil war. God and Buddha bless them, and best of luck to them in the almost impossible task of cleaning up the level of corruption here

[belg]

the problem will never go away

in a country where 90% of the people have less than 5% of everything

poor will not become middleclass overnight, specially not uneducated farmers and schools like to give just that: uneducated people, that follows and never questions

next step I see, is like in the USA and many western countries: impose a policy of making the average person overweight, fat, obese ...

did you ever see obese people comming onto the streets to protest ????

who is protesting ? slim muslims that are tired of the regime ....

laugh if you want, but look at the USA/Western countries : as good as no protests and governement is robbing the working class, taxing them to go the money away in social programs to immigrants that never worked or paid ...