Multiple causes for Pathum Thani building collapse

[webfact]

Multiple causes for Pathum Thani building collapse
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, Aug 18 -- The Thai Council of Engineers said today there are various causes to the collapse of a residential in Klong Hok area of Pathum Thani province, while pointing out obvious signs that inform that a building could be at risk of collapsing.

The authorities have ended their efforts to search for more bodies of those buried under the rubble of a collapsed 6-storey condominium in Pathum Thani.

Council of Engineers Secretary-General Amorn Pimarnmas told the media that the unfortunate event is called a 'pancake collapse.'

"Such collapses would first occur in a single spot before expanding throughout the whole building, as could be seen by the collfalling down of all the five floors on top of one another.

As for the cause of the collapse, Mr Amorn pointed out that there could be various causes for the building's structural failure, including, illegal and unsafe construction practices, rushed completion of construction, wrong design plan use, constructing the building below standard, musing low quality materials, and having an unstable structure.

He said that as a safety precaution for construction of a building higher than 3-storeys, an engineer must be present to supervise the construction works at the site at all times.

He suggested that these signs be taken into consideration of how a building might be at risk of collapse, for reasons such as the strength of the structure, the site is without signs informing of the construction, or naming the owner of the project.

Likewise, if no engineer is present to oversee the construction work or the construction is seen to be completed earlier than expected, it may be considered a warning factor.

Mr Amorn said botyh the engineer and designer of the collapsed U Place Condo is currently being investigated.

The 6-storey residential condominium collapsed one week ago August 11. So far, the total number of people found dead reached 14, while 25 others were injured. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-08-19

[taony]

Yes, various causes. But they are all of natural occurrence, they just happen on their own. No one is a fault of course.

[seajae]

looks like the fat envelopes are being distributed already, probably end up being caused by earth tremors localized to only the building area and no fault of the millionaire developers at all..........

[NongKhaiKid]

Just as the same as a BIB release after a crime when they list all possible motives.

[DrLom]

Where's the report from King Mongkut's Uni engineers who came to investigate, and said a report would be issued today?

Or is this it?

Poor initial design, speedy construction, cutting corners in material costs and employing unskilled labour, are all clear-cut in most such constructions, especially in Thailand.

Where's the official report? You know, the transparent one?... blah blah black sheep... have you any dosh - yes sir, yes sir, three bags in the back of the truck...

[ChrisY1]

They are correct in indicating that there would be multiple reasons for this collapse, and it only takes a small failure to turn catastrophic......obviously, faults in design, construction methodology, poor quality materials and a lack understanding of basic building principals for high rise.

To have a permanent structural engineer on a site never happens here.........if it does, then their recommendations would be easily over ridden for productivity.......

Building speed is of the essence here........get 'em up and get people in 'em!

Will the complete results ever be published??...14 people killed, and likely a couple more still there....I doubt it.........

[DrLom]

They are correct in indicating that there would be multiple reasons for this collapse, and it only takes a small failure to turn catastrophic......obviously, faults in design, construction methodology, poor quality materials and a lack understanding of basic building principals for high rise.

To have a permanent structural engineer on a site never happens here.........if it does, then their recommendations would be easily over ridden for productivity.......

Building speed is of the essence here........get 'em up and get people in 'em!

Will the complete results ever be published??...14 people killed, and likely a couple more still there....I doubt it.........

Sorry Chris, but it doesn't, or shouldn't, take one small failure to become catastrophic failure. It is when all systems fail it becomes catastrophic, and each of these potential failures should be covered in DFMEA, PFMEA and QFMEA. I would bet my life that 98% of Thai companies don't even know what DFMEA is!

If DFMEA is followed from concept to procurement, individual failures are recognised, and overcome. They are not party to catastrophic failure, as the DFMEA recognises delta failure, and everything must stop and go back to the drawing board (Catia nowadays)... then again, I worked in the car industry. I am not sure if architects use such precise development methods. Obviously not in Thailand..... a few bottles of beer, fag-packet sketch - and yep - we start tomorrow....... oh, and don't forget the cheap Myanmar labourers; we don't want to be out of pocket do we?

[ChrisY1]

They are correct in indicating that there would be multiple reasons for this collapse, and it only takes a small failure to turn catastrophic......obviously, faults in design, construction methodology, poor quality materials and a lack understanding of basic building principals for high rise.

To have a permanent structural engineer on a site never happens here.........if it does, then their recommendations would be easily over ridden for productivity.......

Building speed is of the essence here........get 'em up and get people in 'em!

Will the complete results ever be published??...14 people killed, and likely a couple more still there....I doubt it.........

Sorry Chris, but it doesn't, or shouldn't, take one small failure to become catastrophic failure. It is when all systems fail it becomes catastrophic, and each of these potential failures should be covered in DFMEA, PFMEA and QFMEA. I would bet my life that 98% of Thai companies don't even know what DFMEA is!

If DFMEA is followed from concept to procurement, individual failures are recognised, and overcome. They are not party to catastrophic failure, as the DFMEA recognises delta failure, and everything must stop and go back to the drawing board (Catia nowadays)... then again, I worked in the car industry. I am not sure if architects use such precise development methods. Obviously not in Thailand..... a few bottles of beer, fag-packet sketch - and yep - we start tomorrow....... oh, and don't forget the cheap Myanmar labourers; we don't want to be out of pocket do we?

I probably should have said that it COULD only take.......remember that Thais structures are built to the minimum spec......there is very little safety factor in their designs.......one column sheer and the lot could come down......

Appreciate your response.

[Sena Dave]

What he means is ,A complete lack of quality and material control in conjunction with a design with no built in contingency (Bare Minimum)

Due to widespread corruption in Asia 99% of the time the money has gone out of the job before the construction has started , so its cutting corners with sub-standard materials time. They will never leave the 3rd world until they start to think and act differently. When it costs more to kill people that it does to bring a job in late is when practices will change

[Katipo]

There must be 100's of other buildings which are only a small knock away from collapse in Bangkok (and Thailand generally). I am really not looking forward to when that day comes.

[elgordo38]

I can see the poor construction on the road out back of my condo bldg. There are spots where only gravel sticks out little cement used and there are spots where the wire reinforcing is exposed on the top.

[Sena Dave]

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I can see the poor construction on the road out back of my condo bldg. There are spots where only gravel sticks out little cement used and there are spots where the wire reinforcing is exposed on the top.

They don't follow any proper concreting practices , slump testing , cube (strength) testing , curing , cold joint procedures. Re-bar should be "Lapped" when joined 40 x Diameter so if 10mm rebar it should be joined or lapped 400mm, , it should also be clean but no one measures or checks anything

[circusman]

Yes, various causes. But they are all of natural occurrence, they just happen on their own. No one is a fault of course.

What ? Did you not read? They listed the faults for you.

[Lupatria]

Summarized it is what we all know- the unholy combination of greed, lack of craftsmanship, expertise and most of all the low value of the lives of foreign workers.

[klauskunkel]

Yes, various causes. But they are all of natural occurrence, they just happen on their own. No one is a fault of course.

yes, it's genetic, can't blame anyone

[Halion]

Cover enough causes and you will get at least one of them right. Why not simple state that the collapse was caused by incompetence, negligence,greed and ignorance. That should do the trick

[ratcatcher]

Yes, various causes. But they are all of natural occurrence, they just happen on their own. No one is a fault of course.

What ? Did you not read? They listed the faults for you.

I looked at your avatar and then read what you wrote. Indeed!

I do stronlgy suspect taony was using a strong dose of sarcasm.

[Frank James]

The whitewash is on backorder, but should arrive at the site very soon. Thanks for your patience.

[ratcatcher]

The whitewash is on backorder, but should arrive at the site very soon. Thanks for your patience.

No doubt it will be watered down to go even further.

[Zeegator]

Yes, various causes. But they are all of natural occurrence, they just happen on their own. No one is a fault of course.

Yes, various possible causes and the actual cause will be identified when the ongoing investigation is complete.

Nowhere did it say that no-one was at fault or that the other nonsense you posted happened.

[Zeegator]

Just as the same as a BIB release after a crime when they list all possible motives.

Not the same at all, there is an investigation in process and until that is completed anything could be possible, that is why a number of possible causes for the collapse were given.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[Basil B]

I suppose the real question is what did the designer, construction engineer, site foreman and workers ever do right?

[dcsw53]

I will be interested to see what happens to the condo block under contruction next door that did not collapse. Presumably built by the same company to the same standards, no one in the right mind would ever buy one. If I were living in one of the completed ones dwon the road, I would have packed my bags already.

[lvr181]

Speculation does not solve the problem - only proper investigation and conclusive proof - followed by prosecution of ALL parties who failed.

[Payboy]

Yes, various causes. But they are all of natural occurrence, they just happen on their own. No one is a fault of course.

What ? Did you not read? They listed the faults for you.

Yeah, but they forgot to mention gravity.

[Nalo56]

Doesn't Thailand have building inspectors to assure all buildings are built and designed correctly? I guess not

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thaiready]

Piss poor Concrete......only in Thailand will you be offered diffrent grades of Concrete.