Norwegian Chiropractor arrested by Pattaya Immigration Police

[Alwyn]

He was a big help to me over the past year. Plus he was a very "human" guy - when finished with doctor/patient, he enjoyed a chat about many different things. When he bought his Ninja, he was like a kid with a new toy. He'll be deported, of course, but not sure whether he'll try to get a licence and come back as his family have been at him to return to Norway for some time. Best of luck, Vincens.

If you enjoy putting your bodily well-being in the hands of an amateur, good luck to you.

Why not choose a local?

The man is a criminal, no matter how nice he seems.

He is far from being amatuer, he is an accredited Chiropractor in Norway (a qualification that will be recognized in any western country, I wonder if an accredited Thai Chiropractor would be?) If you've ever been unlucky enough to have to use a chiropractor you might appreciate this more. Imagine trying to explain to a Thai chiropractor (if they even exist) the type of pains, when and where these pains occur ("I get a shooting pain from the sciatic nerve to my trapezius but mainly when I favour that side because of the problem with the slipped disc" Thai chiropractor "yes yes"). His only "criminal act" was opening without a WP, hardly a hanging offence - well it might be in your World I guess. Too bad for his partients

[jpduggan]

Was there not recently a post commenting on how good the clinic is? Or was for that matter.

I visited this clinic several times and got great relief from shoulder pain. I'm sorry to see this guy in trouble, he was good at the job.

[Strangebrew]

Rules are simple to do work in Thailand you need work permit period how hard is that to understand? If caught you face ,jail , fine deportation or all three. Oh and blacklisting. If he took the time to hire a Thai lawyer to help through the maze this wouldn't have happened. But did any of you so called customers warn him of this fact? No think not let him hang in the breeze.

[Asiantravel]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

Was he a qualified Chiropractor?

his website says yes

Vincens Steen is a chiropractor with an authorisation from the Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare.

He has graduated from The Scandinavian College of Chiropractic in Stockholm, a 5-year rigorous education with many of the individual programs lectured by professors from the globally renowned Karolinska Medical University.

http://www.backinmotion.no/aboutclinic.html

[Always18]

So this Chiropractor though that he can operate a practice visible to all in impunity and

get away with it? he need to have his head examined ....

..............just don't expect to find too many licensed phrenologists over here for that though................!

[ravip]

So... for some people, breaking rules are justified?

e.g.

accredited Chiropractor

he was exceptionally professional and sorted out a problem

he was a nice guy

Does this apply globally or only to Thailand?

Can anyone go to any country and start some business that he/she excels in?

If you are a professional, why come to a country where the law has many 'grey' areas and start an illegal business?

Would not that person be worse than the 'assumed law less' host country?

Sometimes, it is better to think before condemning another.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

When you read this you can see how many people this man has benefited and it is very unfortunate that some of the best contributions to Thailand like this man are not allowed here because of the archaic laws still in existence. I have seen chiropractors for 30-35 years now and I am so grateful for how they have restored my body into optimal balance and health. If you have never received the benefits of a chiropractor or naturopath please do not post negative comments ( or better yet, just SHUT UP) as you are only amplifying the liklihood of the very corrupt and incompetent global conventional medical industry and its partners in crime, the pharmaceutial industry, continuing their insidious and outdated healing modalities!

I think you forgot to throw in the Illuminati in there somewhere. You know, just to add further credibility.

To be oblivious to the corruption in the medical and pharmaceutical industries requires some real blinders.

Autism.

People are getting sicker. Do you think the huge multi-billion dollar industry that profits from people getting sicker might have something to do with that?

[Carrerakiss]

He was a big help to me over the past year. Plus he was a very "human" guy - when finished with doctor/patient, he enjoyed a chat about many different things. When he bought his Ninja, he was like a kid with a new toy. He'll be deported, of course, but not sure whether he'll try to get a licence and come back as his family have been at him to return to Norway for some time. Best of luck, Vincens.

If you enjoy putting your bodily well-being in the hands of an amateur, good luck to you.

Why not choose a local?

The man is a criminal, no matter how nice he seems.

1. Name 1 local chiropractor?

2. Who told you he was an armature ?

Were you aware to be qualified chiro in EU takes 4-6 years of study ?

I very much doubt that he was an amature. That would mean that he was providing services for free. No, I am sure he was engaged in an occupation on a professional basis. Good or bad I don't know, but clearly on an illegal basis.

TBH, just like the beach vendors who have had their businesses swept away, if you carry out business on an illegal basis, it can be taken away at any time. Particularly a farang, one dis satisfied customer who makes a complaint and you're done for.

[smotherb]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

Wait a minute, before all of you jump onto the Thais for not letting farangs work. According to the article, "The suspect claimed that he was a former medical student and used to work with the therapists of a well known soccer team in Thailand."

Let's see that strong need we have for someone who once took a chiropractic course and once was the rub-down boy for a soccer team.

Sounds like he neither had the degree nor the license to practice in Thailand, let alone a work permit.

We already have so many unqualified teachers--without degrees, licenses or permits.

Why not allow falangs to do open heart surgery, practice law and issue work permits in Thailand?

[slipperylobster]

Not quite sure what his credentials were. If he had a Doctorate, it would seem that Thailand would welcome the expertise. Anything less, no matter how satisfied his customers were, probably would not be seen as being "professional".

Edited August 20, 2014 by slipperylobster

[TheyCallmeScooter]

So... for some people, breaking rules are justified?

To be humane and heal people in pain, I would think it's not merely justified but requisite.

Why are you a fan of the rules? Do you think they exist to benefit you? Humans don't need rules. Power's rules just confuse them into thinking hurting others is in their interests, if they can "get away with it". The Wiccan Rede is coded into our DNA.

[quidnunc]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

Do you suggest that laws should be broken?

Are you sure you are a suitable resident of Thailand?

It's such a terrible law to break. I mean, think of all the human suffering his activity....relieved. Just awful. We are well rid of him. And Thailand is now a better, if more painful, place for his removal.

[Bignose]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

With all due respect, I am quite positive that if he had wanted to, there are ways for him to have owned and operated such a practice legally with a work permit and with the correct visa. Most of the rest of us have managed to do so.

All the complaints about the proposed limits imposed on Student Visa's . . . this is why. So stop defending him and face the fact that however nice a guy he is, whatever good service he is providing, he is living and working illegally in Thailand, simple as that.

Couldn't have put it better myself, every single one of us know's the rules and the price to be paid for breaking them, he made a simple choice and now...

[WitawatWatawit]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

Wait a minute, before all of you jump onto the Thais for not letting farangs work. According to the article, "The suspect claimed that he was a former medical student and used to work with the therapists of a well known soccer team in Thailand."

Let's see that strong need we have for someone who once took a chiropractic course and once was the rub-down boy for a soccer team.

Sounds like he neither had the degree nor the license to practice in Thailand, let alone a work permit.

We already have so many unqualified teachers--without degrees, licenses or permits.

Why not allow falangs to do open heart surgery, practice law and issue work permits in Thailand?

Semantics, and you fell for it. Of course he's a former medical student, you clot. He's now a qualified chiropractor. So he's not "unqualified". He did chiro work for the national socer team under supervision (this was obviously a bit of PR work to help build his name - fair enough).

He will now pay the price for his stupidity, and he only has himself to blame. I have no sympathy for him in that regard, but some regret on a personal basis, much like many of the other posters. Don't be a klutz and confuse the emotions.

[sweatalot]

When you read this you can see how many people this man has benefited and it is very unfortunate that some of the best contributions to Thailand like this man are not allowed here because of the archaic laws still in existence. I have seen chiropractors for 30-35 years now and I am so grateful for how they have restored my body into optimal balance and health. If you have never received the benefits of a chiropractor or naturopath please do not post negative comments ( or better yet, just SHUT UP) as you are only amplifying the liklihood of the very corrupt and incompetent global conventional medical industry and its partners in crime, the pharmaceutial industry, continuing their insidious and outdated healing modalities!

I think you forgot to throw in the Illuminati in there somewhere. You know, just to add further credibility.

To be oblivious to the corruption in the medical and pharmaceutical industries requires some real blinders.

Autism.

People are getting sicker. Do you think the huge multi-billion dollar industry that profits from people getting sicker might have something to do with that?

People getting sicker?

What that number means is a certain sickness is diagnosed more often.

It goes like this:

Drug companies invent a chemical (=drug)

Then they find an ailment that could be treated with this. Then they find how important that ailment is or even invent a diagnosis (any inconvenience) that they say is cured by this chemical.

Then they teach the prescribers about this "important illness" that needs to be treated.

Then the doctors diagnose - and prescribe.

Before patients did not care about that inconveninece nor did the doctors.

The drug creates new inconveniences or even severe side effects. New diagnoses ... new drugs

Oh... sorry I found this is off topic ....

But: chiros don't do that. Now it's on topic

Edited August 20, 2014 by sweatalot

[rainwater]

as chiropractic is quackery, one can only conclude that Thailand is better off.

if you've every had a back problem and chronic pain for months or years (like I have) and dealt with the life changing effects of a back injury, I doubt you would be so sarcastic and make such ignorant flippant remarks... there are many good chiropractors, acupuncturists, physical therapists and massage therapists who do a great job helping people.

[newermonkey]

But how many Thai QUACKS who have paid for sudo fake licences are putting people at risk of perminent damage.

Why don't you tell us if you have that information? If you don't, then why post garbage?

Its not garbage, I am aking a question, if you dont know the answer then shut up.

[cekipa]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

Several are the services strong needed in LOS by some people which locals cannot or rarely provide. Thai system seems to be numb towards certain people needs.

[easybullet3]

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I went to see him yesterday morning and as ever he was exceptionally professional and sorted out a problem that has caused me a great deal of pain. To accuse him of being a criminal and amateur is churlish at the very least - sure he evidently bent the rules but he took his job seriously - he had had over 200 weeks of training in his home country with the diplomas to prove it. It is a real shame that Pattaya will now be deprived of the only decent chiropractor around - now any of us with back problems will have to go to Bangkok - a journey in itself which is likely to give you some! I am 69 years old and have been practicing various extreme sports at high levels for years and have had recourse to a lot of chiropractors and oesteopaths - Vince was undoubtedly one of the best and I was fortnate to find him. Good luck Vince!

All chiropractic is based on theory that has no scientific background, therefore any diagnosis made by this method is liable to be ill-informed. how can these people claim to be "professional" in any meaningful way?

very simply put: A visit to a Chiropractor (or a Thai Massage) is not so dissimilar from a loving Hug.

its somthing that makes you FEEL NICE... removes stress,... causes you to feel more balanced (because of the removal of said stress to a particular area of your body).

and just like a Hug,,, sooner or later you will want it again.

so,, just as its easy for a skeptic to say: "No Scientific Proof"... its the same as suggesting that love and hugs is a silly thing,, (coz they are only TEMPORARY).

its up to the customer if they want to fork out 1000 to 2000 baht for a session which makes them feel better.

also: there are actually several situations where a chiropractor can adjust a joint that has been knocked out by an accident.

with regards to wear and tear on bones, often the chiropractor adjusts the joint and after a period of time it will slip back to the bad position again.

(again,, i think most seasoned chiropractor customers understand that ONE visit is not a permanent fix... in the same way that you know that ONE VISIT to a Thai Massage is not a permanent fix to your emotional or stressful life).

you should look at it as a COMPLIMENT to your life.. and its UP TO YOU if you want it or not

it would be silly to write it off as "unfounded by science". (thats way too much of a black & white outlook on things)

[iphad]

a good Thai massage is better than a excellent chiropractor any day of the week.

of course Thailand should shut him down working illegally while on a student visa with no certification in Thailand.

[thaipod]

There are several Chiros that are running clinics throughout Thailand that are not registured with the health dept or the chiropractic group . He should of appoached Dr Oat Burana who is the president and set up a legit company and put physio to cover his office legally to treat patients.

After 2 years having a work permit, they can sit the Chiropractic test to become registered with the health Dept to get a license.

[Doznotdiz]

Sure love to find a gooood Chiropractor in Chiang Mai. Tried that English fellow that works in one of the hospitals here but not to happy with his technique.

Yes, I find his technique and attitude a bit off-putting. Playing golf regularly has eased all of my previous problems so I probably won't go to see him again but I shall definitely continue with my annual visits to trusted guys in Australia.Things have changed - I was flying to Bangkok just to see chiropractors, and not being satisfied with any of them I was going to Pattaya where I was equally disappointed. Apparently there is someone else now in Chiang Mai but I don't know the details.

[moe666]

Folks he broke the law and the law won. The story is not about the agent they used to bust this guy good try and putting the blame else where. I have to go to immigration every year, show that I have the money and do 90 day reports, it is not to much to ask others to also follow the rules.

[Robroona]

a police grass who is paid by them or does he owe them something.he was useful to many in pattaya I,am sure,not to the grass then

It worries me that the police seem to have these "foreign" helpers. As usual, as in the case of when they raid a bar in Soi 6 or wherever, it is always a situation where the creep is not involved in any danger. I wonder if the guy sleeps well at night, knowing the havoc he has caused. Never see any of these guys involved in the high profile type crimes.

However, Stefan should have a good idea of who the grass is, and I hope he makes the name well known once he returns to Norway

[happysanook]

The rules are clear , yet many want to break them,

Welcome to the real world. 99% of people would be breaking them if they weren't enforced. You make it sound like people want to follow along and do everything the law states. Cattle.

[BM7591]

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Seems like someone has been manipulating the system and massaging the rules here.

I hope they straighten out all the crooked Chiropractors. Perhaps this will keep all others on the straight and narrow. All puns intended.

[easybullet3]

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He was a big help to me over the past year. Plus he was a very "human" guy - when finished with doctor/patient, he enjoyed a chat about many different things. When he bought his Ninja, he was like a kid with a new toy. He'll be deported, of course, but not sure whether he'll try to get a licence and come back as his family have been at him to return to Norway for some time. Best of luck, Vincens.

If you enjoy putting your bodily well-being in the hands of an amateur, good luck to you.

Why not choose a local?

The man is a criminal, no matter how nice he seems.

wow!! thats a bit of a harsh comment

i totally agree its not right to break important laws.. and I am sure we all broke some kind of law at some point in our lives.

but to call him an "Amateur and Criminal... no matter how nice he seems"... its like you are comparing him to a no good thief,, or a person that we out to be scared of.

he is hardly defrauding the global society as much as certain ex-government members, police people and various other company executives and parliamentary members that constantly use "pay-offs" to get laws passed.

this guy was working without a visa.

Not without a certificate or license.

he was more than able.

and I can guarantee you, a heck of a lot better than the local thai Chiropractors.

its a SHAME he wasnt able to have a permit. and its a shame there is no room in Thailand for work permits for people with small one-man business's.

Yes, he was illegal... but in my view,, DEFINITELY NOT A CRIMINAL !!!

the real criminals rarely get caught.

if it helps anyone,, there is a good USA chiropractor in PhayaThai... (Bangkok)

[docbay]

The vast number of professionally schooled/trained Chiropractics by Western standards working in Thailand DO NOT have a professional license for Thailand OR have a legal Thai work permit! This is not necessarily because the Chiropractor tries to be a renegade thumb their noses at Thai law! It is usually the fault of the "clinic" operator/owner refusing to give their "employee" the necessary documents and processing to work legally. Chiropractors regardless if they are expats or Thai nationals cannot obtain a "clinic license" for running any kind of clinic! A Chiropractor can obtain a "professional license" for working as a Chiropractor in Thailand if they successfully pursue the licensing process established by the Thai Ministry of Health. There is a distinct difference between holding a professional license and "clinic license" for operating/owning a "clinic".

Even if a Chiropractor obtains a professional license, a work permit+visa must be obtained by Thai business "technically" registered to do this line of work. Many working Chiropractors working in Thailand do not have a Thai professional license or a legal work permit/visa. I would bet almost 100% of the Chiropractors working in Thailand are NOT following the letter of the law there just like almost all other legit businesses whether it be Thai nationals or expats. The established Chiropractic operators of Thailand (90% all Bkk) refuse to "sponsor" the expat doctors. The operators of the "multi-clinic" Chiropractic businesses ( most Thai nationals) refuse to give the expat docs the necessary papers to process a legal visa/work permit. Most expat Chiropractors would love to have the proper work permit/visa for Thailand, but it is "controlling and illegal" clinic operator that blocks them. The Chiropractic operators refuse to sponsor the expat employee so if something happens they can turn their backs on the expat and leave them hanging by their neck!

IF this Norwegian Chiropractor was working as a Chiropractor there without a professional license and/or legal work permit AND operating his OWN "clinic" then he was very exposed for sure! Truth be known he was just going along like so many other expats working there playing in the gray areas of the law and someone turned a dime on him and ratted him out. Sounds like Ministry of Health was not chasing him and he was providing a quality professional service to those that came to see him.

As for all the self-righteous expats slamming this law-breaker, I'd bet 100% of them have been outside the letter of the law in Thailand at one time or another!

[petercool]

troll post removed

[Docno]

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

I agree.

there is NO ROOM for small businesses to set up in Thailand.

it forces people to go illegal.

a one-man business cant afford to employ several FULL TIME thai people.

Why cant Thailand create a "Small Business Visa" with perhaps allowance for 1 Thai staff.. (or part time staff).

and (as someone mentioned before), i wonder if the Foreign person that was used in this "sting operation" had a work visa, (because he would have been PAID (possibly) by the Police for his time and effort).

even if the Foreigner that the police used had a Work Visa, then it will have been valid ONLY FOR THE JOB THAT HE WAS PERMITTED TO DO... (not for a secondary job.

I would not be surprised at all if the police broke immigration rules to catch a man that was probably providing a good service that is hard to find in Thailand.

All the "GOOD" Chiropractors i have ever visited in Bkk are all Foreigners!!

"there is NO ROOM for small businesses to set up in Thailand. it forces people to go illegal."

No, nothing forces anyone to 'go illegal'. It's quite simple: if it's against the law, don't do it (or try to get the law changed). Sometimes it seems that people here hold foreigners in Thailand to a different set of standards than they would hold foreigners to back in their own countries.

i dont know your profession but in the western countrys many western peopel working ilegal in their own country for saving tax and because otherwise nobody could paid their work, repairing cars, building houses, fixing houses, water, electric installation, care for old people and so on

it is easy to say follow the rules, how long the rule not touching you, but if the are crossing your way you are wining

Yes, many people break the laws in many countries. You're argument is that if they have a 'good' personal reason for doing so, it's justified? If the law gets in the way, just break it?

I would also add that it's bad enough to break the laws in one's own country, but even worse to do so as a guest in someone else's.