SeaVisionBurma Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Off topic post removed. Please keep the discussion related to the land events in Phuket, this is NOT a discussion about elections 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It starts to sound that half of Phuket is built on encroached land. Wait till they start on the land where farang have built houses. Remember this story: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-expat-Frenchman-stands-to-lose-B100mn-home-in-national-park-land-raid/16783 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Love the bit about the lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 After the Generals return to barracks in a year or two business will be back to usual, sadly. Sadly I expect you are correct. To me this takeover of the government has been in the planning for quite a while. I doubt they are going to allow it to go back to "business as usual." I should end it there as I don't want TV or myself in any trouble with the rather draconian laws here that limit free speech about certain persons… With that said, I don't personally know of any Thai that is against it. All my family and friends are very happy with what has happened here in Thailand. You have mentioned you are wealthy Is it fair to assume your wife and friends did not lose jobs ? And there is also the law about not critisizing the actions of the army do you think the average Thai is cowed by that? Rather like a blanket Lese Majeste it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Love the bit about the lawyers. “Business owners alone will be allowed to talk with officers. If lawyers try to represent them, we will remove them,” he added. Says it all I don't know of any 'poor' business-owners at NY beach. Everyone that I know who owns a business there drives the latest car and lives on a private estate... The only poor guy is the nice guy who drives the samlor taxi - don't think he has any business premises. Anyway, after the demolition of many businesses, if these 2 poor men are allowed to keep their business premises, then I guess they will become very rich men in the near future.... sure they aren't in debt? Could be a used car glut soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi007 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 After the Generals return to barracks in a year or two business will be back to usual, sadly. Sadly I expect you are correct. To me this takeover of the government has been in the planning for quite a while. I doubt they are going to allow it to go back to "business as usual." I should end it there as I don't want TV or myself in any trouble with the rather draconian laws here that limit free speech about certain persons… With that said, I don't personally know of any Thai that is against it. All my family and friends are very happy with what has happened here in Thailand. You have mentioned you are wealthy Is it fair to assume your wife and friends did not lose jobs ? And there is also the law about not critisizing the actions of the army do you think the average Thai is cowed by that? Rather like a blanket Lese Majeste it seems Two friends had their businesses closed, one in Nai Harn, one in Kata. They knew what they were doing was illegal, but as long as they could get way with it, why not, was their attitude. My wife's family are farmers out in Sa Kaeo, salt of the earth people. They have held onto their land and work it. They have proper chanote titles for all their land and pay tax on it. I don't consider myself or our family wealthy, we take care of the properties we are lucky enough to own. So what's your story? You seem to be bitter about the culture here as well as your life experience here. Why do you stay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) I have personal reasons why I stay. That bitter line is worthless. Whenever someone tries to invalidate my opinion by telling me it is based on a perceived personality flaw rather than my observations of what to me seems to be, well a coup of the rich over the poor- I know we've hit the end of the discussions. I had read on another Phuket thread a post you made about a million dollar property you own in California USA, to me that's a sign of wealth. Apologies if I am mistaken. Edited August 21, 2014 by EBlair48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimihendrix Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think this was the right move to stay consistent with rules for all beaches... but nai yang was where I spent my first 3 months, and countless days since. Some of these particular establishments are exactly what I fell in love with in Thailand. I have amazing memories at these places. I understand the need for the law to be black and white, but I always thought this beach in particular was keeping it as "thai style" as possible. It was way different than what happened to Surin and others. And while the whole process being deployed on the beaches has to be done the way its being done, I cant help but think there will be lots of first timers who are going to miss out on some of these experiences and never really get the whole picture. Im confident the owner of my favorite establishment will find a close by place and I'll continue to make new memories there. Hopefully these changes last and things are done proper this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 but I always thought this beach in particular was keeping it as "thai style" as possible Well yes it was, until people got greedy. For many years, the beach had a row of wooden/bamboo buildings strung along the beach road, offering a choice of tasty food, traditional massage, drinks and loose women. Then people got greedy and started to build one and two-floor concrete buildings on the beach road, with guest house and beach club businesses. Then they got greedier and built their hideous, concrete structures right on the beach and down to the high water mark.... The state of that beach (and the state of the island), is purely as a result of greed and selfishness. Som nam na. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 but I always thought this beach in particular was keeping it as "thai style" as possible Well yes it was, until people got greedy. For many years, the beach had a row of wooden/bamboo buildings strung along the beach road, offering a choice of tasty food, traditional massage, drinks and loose women. Then people got greedy and started to build one and two-floor concrete buildings on the beach road, with guest house and beach club businesses. Then they got greedier and built their hideous, concrete structures right on the beach and down to the high water mark.... The state of that beach (and the state of the island), is purely as a result of greed and selfishness. Som nam na. Did those guesthouses right at the high tide line get knocked down, or were they part of the land that was deemed legitimate? Reason I ask is a friend of mine that kite's up there always used to tell me that he could sit outside of his room and have the waves lap at his feet and said it was a nice place to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Did those guesthouses right at the high tide line get knocked down... I think they are on the land that is deemed legitimate. But that doesn't mean that they can stay. They break the zoning rules. So it is likely that those guesthouses at high water mark will be demolished and those by the beach road will be reduced to single-floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 And meanwhile at Layan, the three story ( or is it four?) Nikki Beach Club that is actually on the beach, and in zone 1 continues to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 @EBlair48, can you remind me of the zoning regulations for buildings near/on the beach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Zoning regulations are, nothing can be built within 20 metres of median high tide line. Between 20-50 metres, 6 metres is maximum height. 50-250 metres, 12 metres maximum height. It all comes down to how much you paid the local planning guy to designate where the (moveable) median high tide line is. Plenty of drawings have been manipulated to benefit both the local gov't officials, and the developers. There's been a big court case involving Eva Beach on this as has been reported in many news articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldozer Dawn Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Zoning regulations are, nothing can be built within 20 metres of median high tide line. Between 20-50 metres, 6 metres is maximum height. 50-250 metres, 12 metres maximum height. It all comes down to how much you paid the local planning guy to designate where the (moveable) median high tide line is. Plenty of drawings have been manipulated to benefit both the local gov't officials, and the developers. There's been a big court case involving Eva Beach on this as has been reported in many news articles. If the median high tide line included the high water levels from the tsunami, then all west coast development in Phuket would be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If the business owners (or at least former business owners) were smart they would cooperate and try to redevelop on legal land.. if that is possible... using imagination - create a beach front strand ... where ever land could be bought. These cash rich folks should be able to buy out some adjacent places... It is either cooperate - and properly develop or perish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyoldman Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If the business owners (or at least former business owners) were smart they would cooperate and try to redevelop on legal land.. if that is possible... using imagination - create a beach front strand ... where ever land could be bought. These cash rich folks should be able to buy out some adjacent places... It is either cooperate - and properly develop or perish... Exactly right. Move your business off illegal premises to legal ones, and BTW, hire some of those "poor folks" some other posters are sooooooooo concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) ^ Dismissing the working class' problems is always a mistake in any government. Making them worse is reckless. Zoning regulations are, nothing can be built within 20 metres of median high tide line. Between 20-50 metres, 6 metres is maximum height. 50-250 metres, 12 metres maximum height. It all comes down to how much you paid the local planning guy to designate where the (moveable) median high tide line is. Plenty of drawings have been manipulated to benefit both the local gov't officials, and the developers. There's been a big court case involving Eva Beach on this as has been reported in many news articles. And so can we expect the ocean in front of Nikki Beach has moved about 50 meters to the west as in Eva ? Because Nikki beach is higher than 6 meters. I posted elsewhere ( or here? ). a few weeks back , did speak to the permit officer in Cherng-Telay about this- how did it get a permit, he claimed " The big guy signed off on it, not me.." Permit depts can say no. They can say no, a loud disco that is mainly an outside patio with speakers is not appropriate for that area as it is a marine PARK . It was the ONE beach that should have been kept completely natural but nooooooooooo, they put a disco on it and it is staying apparently !!! <deleted> ??? Edited August 23, 2014 by EBlair48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 There is plenty of 'legal' land at NY beach on the other side of the beach road. Problem is that none of the businesses want to buy or pay to rent that land. If they all clubbed together, they could easily afford the asking price to purchase that chanote land, (about 25 million baht for 1 rai of land, right on the beach road and with a clear view of the beach). Probably not even 1 million baht each would cover it. They could sell their new Fortuners to cover the cost..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I doubt they own those Fortuners, and are probably quite buried in them. Seems the working class are now officially locked out of the tourism profits and the tourists will now be paying premium prices for everything, which a recent tourism council meeting has just announced it is aiming for with fixed pricing schemes on rooms I think they will find the very rich will demand a service level Thai workers simply cannot provide, starting with a competent immigration que, and taxi service. They are drowning the golden goose in baby's bathwater and throwing all of it out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I doubt they own those Fortuners, and are probably quite buried in them. Seems the working class are now officially locked out of the tourism profits and the tourists will now be paying premium prices for everything, which a recent tourism council meeting has just announced it is aiming for with fixed pricing schemes on rooms I think they will find the very rich will demand a service level Thai workers simply cannot provide, starting with a competent immigration que, and taxi service. They are drowning the golden goose in baby's bathwater and throwing all of it out . Is this how they are going to create the illusion of having high quality tourists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I doubt they own those Fortuners, and are probably quite buried in them. Seems the working class are now officially locked out of the tourism profits and the tourists will now be paying premium prices for everything, which a recent tourism council meeting has just announced it is aiming for with fixed pricing schemes on rooms I think they will find the very rich will demand a service level Thai workers simply cannot provide, starting with a competent immigration que, and taxi service. They are drowning the golden goose in baby's bathwater and throwing all of it out . The problem is these people got greedy charging ridiculous prices for basic food, they had very little overhead - they shat in their own nest, plus lets not forget the various mafia's that are running the show preventing free trade and competition by price fixing, it simply could not be allowed to continue - and as for taxi service, well the less said about that the better Proper regulation and control by local authorities was needed and if they couldn't or were unwilling do it then central government has stepped in and cleaned up their act The same thing continues in other popular tourist areas and hopefully will get the same treatment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well I could get a good lunch with my toes in the sand and a complimentary lounger and umbrella- for under 400 baht w entree salad and soda, Now I can eat at the Laguna hotel restaurants on their concrete patios for about 3 times that . I maintain this is about securing massive profits for some people- and not anything else . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I maintain this is about securing massive profits for some people- and not anything else . You're wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi007 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I maintain this is about securing massive profits for some people- and not anything else . You're wrong. Agree KB! No factual basis, just the usual rhetoric. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldozer Dawn Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I maintain this is about securing massive profits for some people- and not anything else . You're wrong. Well BD...who to side with EB or KB... Is it a well planned assault on the poor as EB suspects... Or...is it just a coincidence that none of the mega resorts on public land have yet to be cleared...and...importantly...are still trading on with impunity. One of the first things I learned when studying for my MBA was that an efficient manager ALWAYS tackles the most difficult problems first. Why weren't Trisara, Pullman, et al cleared first? They are the nuts to crack. The workaday folks can be cleared out in a couple of weeks with a backhoe... Perhaps it may prove useful here to review the definition of a bully: https://www.google.co.th/search?q=bully+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gws_rd=cr&ei=o4D4U9GGE4WjugT6oICgBw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBlair48 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) I maintain this is about securing massive profits for some people- and not anything else . You're wrong. Agree KB! No factual basis, just the usual rhetoric. Well when I see the encroaching resorts get pulled down and the officials indicted get who allowed all of it to happen perhaps I will think your post has some merit. Until then, merely telling me I'm wrong is as poor an argument as it gets. I'm with BD's link - bullies who pick on the weak is what is going on. Edited August 23, 2014 by EBlair48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) I maintain this is about securing massive profits for some people- and not anything else . You're wrong. Well BD...who to side with EB or KB... Is it a well planned assault on the poor as EB suspects... Or...is it just a coincidence that none of the mega resorts on public land have yet to be cleared...and...importantly...are still trading on with impunity. One of the first things I learned when studying for my MBA was that an efficient manager ALWAYS tackles the most difficult problems first. Why weren't Trisara, Pullman, et al cleared first? They are the nuts to crack. The workaday folks can be cleared out in a couple of weeks with a backhoe... Perhaps it may prove useful here to review the definition of a bully: https://www.google.co.th/search?q=bully+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gws_rd=cr&ei=o4D4U9GGE4WjugT6oICgBw Maybe the generals didn't go to business school to get an MBA? Just a wild guess......... Lots and lots of rich people have been affected. Most of the land encroachers were very rich. You saying the taxi cartel was made up of poor, working class people? Some people are just sooooooo naive. Maybe you should Google the definition of Law-breaker Edited August 23, 2014 by KarenBravo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaVisionBurma Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Inflammatory post removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I know quite a few of the business owners on NY beach: - One opened a single bar some years ago, now has 2 bars and 3 massage shops, plus 2 houses and her Fortuna - Another guy has 2 restaurants and new house, plus Chanote land near to the airport - Another guy has 2 houses... And so it goes on. There may be some poor folk, but I haven't found them yet They are certainly richer than me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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