German bar owner murdered on Koh Samui island

[Patje]

It happens all over this country, if it is yours please don't react , don't argue . I know this is not the western way, but you are in this land, get over it, happened to me too, lucky that my wife stepped in and calmed them down , otherwise I was not typing this !!

[Briggsy]

Everybody is assuming it was just chance someone was sitting on his bike, perhaps someone was deliberately sitting on his bike waiting for him.

[Thomas Hannah]

German man had every right to be angry at the kids. Imagine if a group of farangs sat on a Tuk Tuk or other Thai owned vehicle. But getting angry seems to almost always lead to the inevitable beating/stabbing/killing. They might have had a previous run in with the victim.

No,he did not,,It is normal in thailand ,,to sit on other peoples bikes,,All he had to do ,,was show them the keys,,and point out the bike was his,,Shouting etc,,Means come on ,,Lets have a fight,,This is normal thai culture,,,((The easy way ,,or the hard way,,))

This german ,,learned the hard way,,In germany,,it is normal,,to stand and shout,,but not fight,,because you have to pay the hospital bills..I suggest to you,,Start trying to learn other countries cultures,,,Or you could be another one,,who learns the hard way..

[tomacht8]

As long as the courts do not punish murder here consistently, these senseless killings will continue .
If the police catch the murderer, the next day they are again released on bail.
Murderers have little to fear here, especially the sons and daughters of influential, wealthy Thais.

[duanebigsby]

First RIP to the poor gentleman. If the smile does not work walk away and come back later when they are gone. I have only lived in Thailand for 4 years but I know that it is not a great idea to be agressive with a Thai and risk him losing face especially when mixed with alcohol and we all know the consequences of that. It seems that violence is the first resort for most Thai men and I for one intend not to provoke it.

Violence is a first resort of some Thai men. Most Thai men wouldn't sit on someone else's motorbike to begin with.

They were already jerks to begin with.

I don't think most Thai men are jerks either. But these guys were.

[steelepulse]

Here's a few thoughts on this.

1) Parents should be held as accessories. What kind of parents let their kids out on a Tuesday night hang out late outside of a bar drinking ( and probably doing ya ba).

2) If what I read is correct, the deceased was in an MC, so I really doubt these punks singled out his Honda Dream to sit on. More than likely it was a bike befitting an MC.

3) Why didn't his gf try to diffuse the situation with a couple of "ko tot"?

4) There isn't understanding of personal property laws here. I can see if you are in Nakon Nowhere and you know everyone in the village, but to single out a bigger bike to sit on when you have no idea whose bike it is, is just plain wrong.

5) These worthless cowards are pieces of dung.

RIP poor German bloke and let's hope these yaba taking, cheap alcohol drinking pond scum get what they deserve.

[Bung]

Simple solution if you own a bar in a popular drinking spot AND you have a nice bike parked outside with some young louts sitting on it.

Have your own louts you can count on to sort it out!

[mauGR1]

Everybody is assuming it was just chance someone was sitting on his bike, perhaps someone was deliberately sitting on his bike waiting for him.

Some similar thought crossed my mind too.

But i think we should not speculate , let's wait to get more info.

Anyway, it's happening too often lately, and not only in Thailand.

RIP poor guy.

[billmunday10]

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Why does everyone keep talking like this is such a big problem in Thailand compared to anywhere else??

This kind of thing sadly happens all the time all over the world

Doesn't mean you should live your life letting people get away with everything because of the very rare possibility you will get viciously murdered.

This isn't to say that a polite approach first is always the best in any situation but if that doesn't work I would defiantly not walk away until they decide they want to get off the bike.

In the 10 years I've lived here being a respectful polite person has got me into a lot less trouble than it would back home in London where people picking fights is a nightly occurrence.

But on the wrong night with the wrong people your luck can be out in any country in the world. RIP

So since it happens everywhere in the world means its OK that its happening here as well, we should just ignore post like this and not comment how disgusted this kind of behavior is. Are you for real?

Are you for real??

In what part of my post did I say it was ok??

I was pointing out the fact that it happens all over the world so in my opinion you should always stand up for yourself and not live in fear but always take a polite calm approach at first like you would anywhere.!

[nithisa78]

-RIP

[murphya33]

Here's a few thoughts on this.

1) Parents should be held as accessories. What kind of parents let their kids out on a Tuesday night hang out late outside of a bar drinking ( and probably doing ya ba).

2) If what I read is correct, the deceased was in an MC, so I really doubt these punks singled out his Honda Dream to sit on. More than likely it was a bike befitting an MC.

3) Why didn't his gf try to diffuse the situation with a couple of "ko tot"?

4) There isn't understanding of personal property laws here. I can see if you are in Nakon Nowhere and you know everyone in the village, but to single out a bigger bike to sit on when you have no idea whose bike it is, is just plain wrong.

5) These worthless cowards are pieces of dung.

RIP poor German bloke and let's hope these yaba taking, cheap alcohol drinking pond scum get what they deserve.

You are making alot of assumptions here. Don't think too much. i'm sure the police will get to the bottom of ot.

[hobz]

I've had teenagers sit on my bike three times over the last 18 months. I think they like my bike.

I'm always polite and they always move away quickly and I.say something like "it's ok man, don't worry".

There was never any damage to my bike. One of the times the guy was so drunk that he had mistaken my.bike for his own I.think.

The other two times it was just teens waiting for something and not having anywhere to sit.

That being said, my first thought everytime has been "oh #!?! This could be bad.. keep cool."

[Confuscious]

"According to witnesses, the deceased and his Thai girlfriend were in the parking lot of a nightclub on Chaweng Beach when they encountered three teenagers sitting and drinking alcohol on the German's motorcycle, witnesses said."

Teenagers will never get a jail sentence in Thailand.

The Police/Judge will put the blame on the German that he lost his temper.

Case closed.

Next "alien" .....

[Kalebiran]

Hope the German foreign office demands justice and not " thai justice" . time to recommend its citizens NOT to go to many places in Thai

[uptheos]

How long had he lived in Thailand?

Not long enough.

Those scum made sure of that!!

[personchester]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Perhaps he did initially smile at them because it is a well known aspect to apply in Thailand when those matters arise.

But the three drunken blokes might not have responded to his smiling, as a result he acted in a slightly progressive manner and the three messy blokes then attacked him to cause his death.

A shocking event ... RIP.

[Rooo]

Mass cleaning. No more explanations will be given.

[96tehtarp]

The German guy was a member of the Outlaws MC . I know these bikers go nuts if anyone touches their bikes so i can imagine this had something to do with the speed the incident descended into violence

Can anyone verify he was a member? If true these 3 teenagers might have extra problems.

[shrimpythailand]

one day after work a year ago my Vigo pick up was parked 50 yards from the office front door with a stoned out guy sleeping in the bed of the truck ... so he doesn't move when i ask him to "pai lao" and the owner of the car shop is there and he talks to him and says he just wants to go down the road... ok ok ok I go down the road with buddy in the back and do my U turn and he still doesn't want to get out - says " Pai glup bahn doai" yah right - wants to come home with me.... ok ok so after the U turn is the big police station on Sisamn rd in Nonthaburi so I pull over to the curb and low and behold the big police captain is there as the cops are doing some 6 pm exercise in the parking lot.. so I tell Capt. that buddy "mai ow pai pom rot" and "Pom glub bahn and mai ow khun" in my truck and I don't know this guy... well that was about it... Capt. grabs him by the T shirt and gets him out of the back of the truck... and sorry to say - not sure if he was on yaba or just drunk but I think he ended up in the free hotel...I Wai'd the Capt and was on my way... but yes - drunk or not - am wondering why the german's GF didn't step in real quick and tell him to stop.... if the wife is the car with me and honk the horn man that is like a BIG no no... you just never know who is going to slam on the brakes and get of a car with a gun becuase you gave the guy the horn.... anyway rip german dude... if he owned a bar methinks he should have done the cool thing first instead of yelling at the kids.. and the thai GF should have maybe been able to calm things down.... you never know here when the straw breaks....had the family kid get out of the army and staid at our place for 2 weeks... we had a classic Yamaha 250cc bike here from the DIL's BF that we were in charge of - nice bike but the back tire was flat... anyway ex soldier nephew decided to take it over a few miles to see his gf after I told him do not ride it as the back tire was flat, had no insurance....etc.... so yah - he takes it out and it runs out of gas... so he gets back here and no bike... and I lose it.... was yelling at him that if I was his sargent he would have to stay 2 more years in the army because he can't listen.... anyway - after a minute or two rant he pulls out his soliders knife and holds it up - not to stab me but just to let me know he is pissed off... and I calmed down but even tho he is family it could have gone another way but it didn't.... and I was pretty happy afterward as i got pretty loud out in the front yard.... yikes....this was a week after he burned out the clutch in my car as I let him drive it (mistake)....2 years of driving a thai Tank in the army....good gawd... but not a bad kid - just didn't listen after his 2 years in the army and it did piss me off when he basically stole the motorcike... but the keys were right on the table ... after I told him no - and he was drunk that night...

[patheno]

I can understand the anger behind many of the comments. But, aside from age difference, we who are older must use reason instead of emotion when confronted with young alcohol fuelled people. I am Irish and was brought up in a pub in ireland and learned quite quickly how to manage emotions in this situation. I dont know ho wexperienced this bar owner was, but really 5-10 years owning a bar and you become an amateur psychologist and laern how to handle this stuff. On the cultural front few of us, myself included, undersatnd the full complexity. Phrases like "losing face" are easy to put out thee but there be mmany other dynamics. In the tourist resorts "farangs" are quite often pushing the Thai economically to one side, and they may perceive an economic "colonization" by europeans, russians, and chinese to a point that they snap.. So my only request is don't rush for a simple answer; it may be much more complex than we think. Reflect; Observe; Reflect again and then suggest what might be the cause. There are rarely one minute answers to human behavior.

[SanSaiExPat]

If the German Bar owner had his wits about him he might have been better off walking back into his bar and asking one of his Thai bouncers/door men to remove the slime from his motorcycle. I hate to think he got caught up in trying to impress his Thai girlfriend and that got him killed. RIP my man. "Any man's death diminishes me, Because I am involved in mankind, And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee." JD

[garrya]

First RIP to the poor gentleman. If the smile does not work walk away and come back later when they are gone.

Sorry but are you seriously suggesting that one should just walk off if encountering a Thai man sitting on your bike and wait for him to leave? Unbelievable!

The cultural barrier is down and no longer protects the arrogant white man

So you're saying that is arrogant to tell someone not to sit on your bike but perfectly fine to sit on a stranger's bike in the first place?

You sound like just another Thai apologist blaming the foreign victim.

I have a German neighbour who Hates Thai people, he claims they are the utmost lazy and worthless people), he thinks he is superiour and the things he says and does are unacceptable, he already got punched one time by my father in law because he claimed some land+wood was his while it wasn't and he wanted to build a wall arround it! The arrogancy... I wouldn't be suprised if something would happen to him one day. Luckely the people in the village are not violent.

I sit on peoples bikes and people sit on my bike.. no problem at all, just ask politely if they would want to sit somewhere else and there will be no problem. What's with all the angry Germans, what is their problem one would ask. They are generally respectless in many ways.

Germans respectless??? And, I guess, Thais are saint. I have been to many countries in my life, but to say the Germans are respectless is ridiculous.

[ukguyinthai]

The three Thais know they should not be on the bike

The three Thais know they can get a problem sitting on another guys bike

The three Thais reacted by stabbing the owner to death.

The three Thais were influenced by alcohol and very probably yaba too

Who are the three Thais when not under the influence of drugs and alcohol?How are they feeling right now at this moment.

The problem of alcohol and drugs is not a Thai pacific problem. The whole thing is so sad and so hard to solve the problem

If YOU don't want to be the next victim ......learn from this and stay very calm if you are in this situation.

If the German guy ( RIP) had stayed calm I would bet 100% he would be sat in his bar now enjoying a drink with his locals,

[You can call me Al]

The German was a member of one of the most violent biker gangs in the world the Outlaws MC I doubt he was the shy retiring type.

[garrya]

Here's a few thoughts on this.

1) Parents should be held as accessories. What kind of parents let their kids out on a Tuesday night hang out late outside of a bar drinking ( and probably doing ya ba).

2) If what I read is correct, the deceased was in an MC, so I really doubt these punks singled out his Honda Dream to sit on. More than likely it was a bike befitting an MC.

3) Why didn't his gf try to diffuse the situation with a couple of "ko tot"?

4) There isn't understanding of personal property laws here. I can see if you are in Nakon Nowhere and you know everyone in the village, but to single out a bigger bike to sit on when you have no idea whose bike it is, is just plain wrong.

5) These worthless cowards are pieces of dung.

RIP poor German bloke and let's hope these yaba taking, cheap alcohol drinking pond scum get what they deserve.

You are making alot of assumptions here. Don't think too much. i'm sure the police will get to the bottom of ot.

As they always do. I guess this one could be a suicide if we look at the history of Thai Police.

RIP

[Deacon Bell]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

I smiled, they ignored me. (one sitting on my bike talking to his friend standing).

I gave them a kor thort na khrap (excuse me).

He curtly replied 'Bap Neung' (equivalent to 'one minute' in English) and didn't move. Just sat there talking to his buddy.

I put on my helmet (already had me armoured jacket on) put the key in and started it, tapped him on the should with another Kor Thort.

He stepped off with an expletive, stood about 5cm away from it and his mate held him back.

Middle of the day outside Major Ratchyothin in Bangkok.

RiP to the German.

[Aussieroaming]

RIP to this bloke.

In regards to the assailants, it is a disgusting act. Unfortunately it isn't a problem that limited to Thai violence. It could happen in many country's ..alcohol and aggression are a dangerous mix

[VINCENT2012]

nothing strange.... thais men hate farang since long time in those special tourist places.

pretty thais girl goes with farang because of their money and the thais are jalous about it, also about the money who make us living better and their are fed up to see that they are always at the end of the list compare to us.... so when they are drunk some can become really stupid with all the consecuences ..!

the poor envy the rich....and i dont blame them

[96tehtarp]

The German was a member of one of the most violent biker gangs in the world the Outlaws MC I doubt he was the shy retiring type.

RIP. Under normal circumstances I would say the German should have known better and handled himself differently. Now that he's dead, and if the information quoted above is true, the teenagers are going to wish they had never sat on his motorbike. The police will be the least of their worries.

[Dante99]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

So that's what you will do if I sat on your bike?

What if the smile doesn't work? What's your next approach?

Move off yourself. What is a bike worth anyway? Unless you have some macho agenda you just have to play.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Dante99