Rain gutters

[grin]

More reasons to go for the galvanized steel:

The gutters and downspouts come in larger sizes. During heavy rains you can see the plastic gutters overflowing on my neighbor's houses. Our galvanized steel gutters must have at least 5 times the capacity. Also our downspouts are 100 mm in diameter.

The galvanized steel is much stronger especially if you get 25 gauge or even 26 gauge.

Properly primed you can paint them just about any color you want.

[eyecatcher]

All the galv gutter places should be able to offer dual material.

Good place in santitam about 100m up from the small rounabout the one with the police box and opposite the big plastics and houseware shop.

Assuming you are in chiang mai?

[TheCruncher]

More reasons to go for the galvanized steel:

The gutters and downspouts come in larger sizes. During heavy rains you can see the plastic gutters overflowing on my neighbor's houses. Our galvanized steel gutters must have at least 5 times the capacity. Also our downspouts are 100 mm in diameter.

The galvanized steel is much stronger especially if you get 25 gauge or even 26 gauge.

Properly primed you can paint them just about any color you want.

The capacity of a rain gutter depends on the size. uPvc gutters are available in different sizes, same as galvanized or any other material gutters.

[TheCruncher]

Plastic? Ok do your own research on this one.( upvc)

Did you see it 5yr ago? 10yr ago?

Its a western money spinner in my opinion.

A bit like water and wood they dont go together.

Sunshine heat and plastic is the same. In the sun upvc degredates and becomes brittle. If it has a colour thats the first to disappear even in thr uk black becomes grey very quick.

Then theres the annoyance of the noisy expansion and contraction of plastic leading to leaking joints.

One piece rolled aluminium at circa 250bt/m to a profile of your choice is the way to go imho.

And you can paint it to any colour you want..

Zinc Galv steel also ok if the guage isnt too thin but aesthetically not as pleasing.

As with everything tastes and opinions dont suit everyone.

That's what they call evolution.

Pvc brittles in the sun, unPlasticized poly vinyl chloride (uPvc) doesn't brittle.

As far as I'm aware Thailand is the only country in the world that still uses galvanized steel for rain gutters, because it is the cheapest solution.

The disadvantage is of course that galvanized steel expands and distracts much more than any other material in the heat, resulting in gutters that make terrible noise morning and evening, and crack where the parts are brazed together along the line resulting in leaks.

Edited May 4, 2015 by TheCruncher

[Dante99]

You are absoultely correct that galvanized guttere distract, they really are a nuisance for drivers and others trying to enjoy a peaceful vies.

[TheCruncher]

You are absoultely correct that galvanized guttere distract, they really are a nuisance for drivers and others trying to enjoy a peaceful vies.

You may have been aware that not everyone on this forum has English as his first language, so it should have been contract instead of distract, but you prefer to play language police instead of adding something useful to the thread.

Keep up the good work

[Dante99]

You are absoultely correct that galvanized guttere distract, they really are a nuisance for drivers and others trying to enjoy a peaceful vies.

You may have been aware that not everyone on this forum has English as his first language, so it should have been contract instead of distract, but you prefer to play language police instead of adding something useful to the thread.

Keep up the good work

and Mr/Ms usefullness cop, what did you add to the thread that was "useful"

Edited May 5, 2015 by Dante99

[TheCruncher]

You are absoultely correct that galvanized guttere distract, they really are a nuisance for drivers and others trying to enjoy a peaceful vies.

You may have been aware that not everyone on this forum has English as his first language, so it should have been contract instead of distract, but you prefer to play language police instead of adding something useful to the thread.

Keep up the good work

and Mr/Ms usefullness cop, what did you add to the thread that was "useful"

You could start to read my post again, but as it seems you have comprehension issues, I will point it out for you.

1. It is incorrect that uPvc gutters discolor or brittle in the sun.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/PVC_vs_uPVC

2. uPvc doesn't make noise because it extract and contract, but galvanized gutters do. I can hear my galvanized gutters every morning, but I can't hear my uPvc windows.

My galvanized gutter leak at a few places already after 3 years, but my friends uPvc gutters are still as new.

The reason galvanized gutters are still used in Thailand is that, as with everything in this country, they only care about price and quality is the very last thing to consider.

[onthedarkside]

Unhelpful bickering post has been removed

[eyecatcher]

You are absoultely correct that galvanized guttere distract, they really are a nuisance for drivers and others trying to enjoy a peaceful vies.

You may have been aware that not everyone on this forum has English as his first language, so it should have been contract instead of distract, but you prefer to play language police instead of adding something useful to the thread.

Keep up the good work

and Mr/Ms usefullness cop, what did you add to the thread that was "useful"

You could start to read my post again, but as it seems you have comprehension issues, I will point it out for you.

1. It is incorrect that uPvc gutters discolor or brittle in the sun.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/PVC_vs_uPVC

2. uPvc doesn't make noise because it extract and contract, but galvanized gutters do. I can hear my galvanized gutters every morning, but I can't hear my uPvc windows.

My galvanized gutter leak at a few places already after 3 years, but my friends uPvc gutters are still as new.

The reason galvanized gutters are still used in Thailand is that, as with everything in this country, they only care about price and quality is the very last thing to consider.

Sorry but my experience in construction tells me different.

Plastic rainwater goods do change colour; black goes grey and white goes cream and grey goes white.

They expand and contract constantly and usually the noise is heard as they move adjacent to the gutter brackets and corner joints.

The reason your windows are not moving is because they are small components. So plastic may expand 10mm over 5m. On a gutter its noticeable but a window may be only 1mm and you would never know.

Plastic profiles here are not as deep as the metal maybe 140mm girth is the biggest you will find and with most roofs with a very shallow pitch the rain simply overshoots the runway rendering the plastic gutters practically usrless.

You may notice a lot of the metal gutters have a higher front catchment wall to catch the deluge.

[TheCruncher]

Sorry but my experience in construction tells me different.

Plastic rainwater goods do change colour; black goes grey and white goes cream and grey goes white.

They expand and contract constantly and usually the noise is heard as they move adjacent to the gutter brackets and corner joints.

The reason your windows are not moving is because they are small components. So plastic may expand 10mm over 5m. On a gutter its noticeable but a window may be only 1mm and you would never know.

Plastic profiles here are not as deep as the metal maybe 140mm girth is the biggest you will find and with most roofs with a very shallow pitch the rain simply overshoots the runway rendering the plastic gutters practically usrless.

You may notice a lot of the metal gutters have a higher front catchment wall to catch the deluge.

We are not talking about plastic, but uPvc or Vinyl for the Americans, which is a different material. My Thyssen Inoutic uPvc windows are guaranteed for 10 years against color change in Thailand, but there are even companies abroad that give a 20 year warranty.

http://www.prime-asia.co.th/products/

http://www.enviroguardwindows.com/prefinished_option.html

No if I look at the uPvc gutters from Windsor, which is only one of the several companies that make uPvc gutters in Thailand, then I see that the size is 6" by 4" deep, which happens to be the same size as my galvanized gutters, and they have never overflown.

http://www.windsor.co.th/rain_gutter_productsEN.html

And, this may be my personal opinion, but they look more aesthetic than galvanized and also have a catchemnt that is higher than the roof edge.

Edited May 5, 2015 by TheCruncher

[eyecatcher]

Agreed Cruncher, aesthetically plastic (or vinyl as you say) is streets ahead. But the fact about plastic/upvc there is no difference.

If you use pvc it has to be solvent welded; though I am not sure if the weld will hold the pressure of expansion.. Dont even bother with any of the clip together (Windsors and the like') DIY grade junk thats available.

Vinyls high expansion rate means that it grows when hot and contracts in the cold, straining all the joints. No matter how much movement the brackets are made to allow, they allow ratcheting during the summer heat causing the gutter system to pull itself apart when cooler weather hits. if you are using the common DIY clip together stuff. Nothing makes you so angry as being on top of a 15ft ladder in a typical winter downpour with the full gutter flow shooting out of the gaps and down your neck.

Solvent welded gutters still have the same expansion rates but hopefully the support systems take that into account and try to counter.

I didnt bother wasting more money on vinyl but went with continuous aluminium gutters.

with continuous aluminioum gutters you have no joints, its one single run from gable to gable, the finish is baked on. it doesnt have the rust problems encountered with galv steel and was money well spent.

In Europe its probably the 95% choice because the weather is more temperate, summer and winter are almost the same (hence why I am here) but I assume you are American where weather is more extreme; I would guess vinyl usage is no where near 95% because long term its not money well spent.

Now who wants to discuss the merits of wooden gutters lined with hand painted bitumen and lead outlets......now we're talking!

[TheCruncher]

uPvc has a linear thermal extraction rate of 0.07mm per meter/degree Celsius, so I think that isn't such a big problem in Thailand

http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=8372

Coefficient of Thermal Expansion for uPVC is

So for every metre of product it expands/contracts 0.00007 metres or 0.07 mm per degree Celsius.

So if installed at ambient temperature of 20 degrees C on a 40 degree day it will expand 0.07 mm x 20 degrees C or 1.4 mm, vice versa if it goes to zero degrees it will contract 1.4 mm

Therefore for every metre allow about 3 mm for movement.

I have a total of 97 meter gutter on my house. Are you telling me that there are 97 meter long aluminium gutters?

How do you go around corners without welding?

[grin]

I think one thing that people forget about when it comes to expansion is that it is temperature difference that is important.

In the midwest US where I come from there is much more temperature variation and expansion joints are required on long runs of gutters.

Some searching shows average minimums and maximums for Chiang Mai to be around 14C and 37C respectively.

Assume that when the gutters were installed the temperature was somewhere in the middle of this range.

Lets say within 15C of either the minimum or maximum.

The coefficient of thermal expansion for galvanized steel is .0000067 in/in/degF or .00372 mm/m/degC if my calculations are correct.

Using this I calculate that a 10 meter length of gutter would expand .558 mm with a 15C rise in temperature.

So this means that a section of gutter 18 m long will expand 1 mm during a 15C rise.

Feel free to cross check these calculations as this seems off by at least a factor of 10.

Grin

Edited May 5, 2015 by grin

[TheCruncher]

I think one thing that people forget about when it comes to expansion is that it is temperature difference that is important.

In the midwest US where I come from there is much more temperature variation and expansion joints are required on long runs of gutters.

Some searching shows average minimums and maximums for Chiang Mai to be around 14C and 37C respectively.

Assume that when the gutters were installed the temperature was somewhere in the middle of this range.

Lets say within 15C of either the minimum or maximum.

The coefficient of thermal expansion for galvanized steel is .0000067 in/in/degF or .00372 mm/m/degC if my calculations are correct.

Using this I calculate that a 10 meter length of gutter would expand .558 mm with a 15C rise in temperature.

So this means that a section of gutter 18 m long will expand 1 mm during a 15C rise.

Feel free to cross check these calculations as this seems off by at least a factor of 10.

Grin

LOL, agree about the factor of at least 10.

The longest length of my galvanized gutters is 16 meter, but most lengths are between 3 and 6 meter, and all have been cracked at the weldings somewhere.

I have now covered the cracked weldings with Bitumen tape so the parts can slide over each other, and at least the "explosions" every morning are gone.

I think the disadvantage of galvanized steel, or any other steel, is that it absorbs the heat. My gutters around noon aren't 35 degrees but you can boil an egg on them.

Edited May 5, 2015 by TheCruncher

[eyecatcher]

uPvc has a linear thermal extraction rate of 0.07mm per meter/degree Celsius, so I think that isn't such a big problem in Thailand

http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=8372

I have a total of 97 meter gutter on my house. Are you telling me that there are 97 meter long aluminium gutters?

How do you go around corners without welding?

The answer is yes.

If you have a lean to porch 97m long then you can have one gutter...and no joints.

On a house no you cannot go around corners. Corners are preformed and "specially" welded and riveted.

A guy would normally come to your site in his tiny van confirm the profile and size you want and then literally roll out "your 97m" right before you.

It is quite amazing to see the first time when he starts off with a rpll of flat aluminium.

I didnt see them perform the in situ corners now that would have been impressive to see him fix 97m with a 90 degree corner in the middle.

[TheCruncher]

uPvc has a linear thermal extraction rate of 0.07mm per meter/degree Celsius, so I think that isn't such a big problem in Thailand

http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=8372

I have a total of 97 meter gutter on my house. Are you telling me that there are 97 meter long aluminium gutters?

How do you go around corners without welding?

The answer is yes.

If you have a lean to porch 97m long then you can have one gutter...and no joints.

On a house no you cannot go around corners. Corners are preformed and "specially" welded and riveted.

A guy would normally come to your site in his tiny van confirm the profile and size you want and then literally roll out "your 97m" right before you.

It is quite amazing to see the first time when he starts off with a rpll of flat aluminium.

I didnt see them perform the in situ corners now that would have been impressive to see him fix 97m with a 90 degree corner in the middle.

Thanks for the explanation, but I have a last question.

Are you talking about Thailand? Do you have those aluminium gutters installed in Thailand. and do you maybe have a link to a company in Thailand?

[grin]

Here's another attempt at the galvanized steel calculation.

Multiply .0000067 in/in/degF by 1800 to get .012 mm/m/degC for the metric coefficient.

Using this value a 10 meter length of gutter would expand 1.8 mm with a 15C rise in temperature.

Still not that much.

Grin

[Cylon]

www.rainwater-solutions.com 12 year warranty , Zincalume continuous gutters, roll formed onsite to any length.also in Copper. Phuket and Southern Thailand.

[worgeordie]

Who would of thought that rain gutters would be such an emotional issue,

if this issue was discussed with the same fervour in a pub it could well lead

to blows.

They are just rain gutters if you want and can afford plastic?,or if you are not too

bothered,and galvanised is good enough for you and in your price range,OK your

happy too, I got my house done in galvanised,as at the time no plastic or any other

kind was available at that time,they have been up for 20 odd years,still work,look fine,

and i cannot hear any noises due to expansion (maybe going deaf) or not so anal retentive,

Now to get back to the real world.

regards Worgeordie

[eyecatcher]

Who would of thought that rain gutters would be such an emotional issue,

if this issue was discussed with the same fervour in a pub it could well lead

to blows.

They are just rain gutters if you want and can afford plastic?,or if you are not too

bothered,and galvanised is good enough for you and in your price range,OK your

happy too, I got my house done in galvanised,as at the time no plastic or any other

kind was available at that time,they have been up for 20 odd years,still work,look fine,

and i cannot hear any noises due to expansion (maybe going deaf) or not so anal retentive,

Now to get back to the real world.

regards Worgeordie

Its very important!

How many of us end up in the gutter?

If theres a choice I want to end up in an aluminium one.

[Phrafarang]

We imported copper gutters from China for two houses, could not be more pleased with them and they are already gaining a nice patina despite only having been up for a month.

[jingjoke]

We imported copper gutters from China for two houses, could not be more pleased with them and they are already gaining a nice patina despite only having been up for a month.

Could you provide details on how to import and cost too? Cheers

[Phrafarang]

Just under half a mil including putting them up, this was for two houses, the builder arranged everything including transport from China though Chiang Mai Pan Cargo, if you are interested I can pm you the builders details

gutter 01-09-2014.pdf

[TheCruncher]

Just under half a mil including putting them up, this was for two houses, the builder arranged everything including transport from China though Chiang Mai Pan Cargo, if you are interested I can pm you the builders details

Do I read that correct that you had a total of 21 meter of gutter?

And half a million for that, thanks but no thanks.So for my 97 meter of gutter at my house that would probably double the cost of the house.

[Phrafarang]

No you did not read it correctly and copper has been on a high for a while now

[TheCruncher]

No you did not read it correctly and copper has been on a high for a while now

Then how many running meter of gutter it was?

Your pdf file says copper gutter quantity: 21,00 unit: meter

Edited May 9, 2015 by TheCruncher

[Phrafarang]

I think if you add up the meterage it actually comes to 59 plus all the ancillaries but regardless I don't think ten grand UK is unreasonable for two houses worth of copper gutters and that is what matters to me

[TheCruncher]

I think if you add up the meterage it actually comes to 59 plus all the ancillaries but regardless I don't think ten grand UK is unreasonable for two houses worth of copper gutters and that is what matters to me

That is if you add the down sprouts to the calculation, right?

Everyone has down sprouts, my 97 meter is gutter only , same as your is 21 meter gutter only, down sprouts I don't consider in the gutters.I have 14 down sprouts, so that would add another maybe 45 meter to my calculation.So looking at your quotation, my guttering system would be around 2.5 million Baht.

Everyone has to look at his wallet, but half million baht for 21 meter isn't worth it for me ever, even if that 21 meter was spread over 5 houses which makes no difference since the length is the only thing that matters.

But if you are happy with it, which is obvious from your comments, the better for you.

[Dante99]

I think if you add up the meterage it actually comes to 59 plus all the ancillaries but regardless I don't think ten grand UK is unreasonable for two houses worth of copper gutters and that is what matters to me

And nothing else matters, your place and only your opinion counts. They are damn fine looking gutters and durable too.