Honda Big Bike Course

[rambling]

I went to the big bike course yesterday at Honda AP facility in Ramkamhaeng and thought I'd share some thoughts and pics on it. It is a one day course, started with registration at 8:45am, license check, and 1,000 Baht payment. Followed by some basic theoretical safety information in a classroom (all in Thai obviously) and then we had some demonstration outside on proper body position, where to direct your look etc. this stuff was relatively basic. Then it was on to the fun part of going through the slalom track. We had several sessions of those, with some breaks, more demonstrations and practice (emergency braking, going over bumpers, and such). We finished at about 16:15, by the time I got back home after another 40min ride my butt was starting to get sore :-)

There were about 15 guys (and one girl) with their own bikes (Kawa, Honda, Suzuki, Ducati) and another 10 or so who rented a bike from Honda. I was surprised to find out that for quite a number of them this was the 2nd to 6th time doing this course, some come on a monthly basis just to get better, faster around the corners and to enjoy a bit more aggressive riding in a closed circuit. Note you can't really go fast there, around 70Kmh perhaps if you push it and break hard but because of the nature of the track you get to both flip the bike fast and lean in quite hard in some places (I actually scraped my boot tow slider a couple of times while completely tucked in).

Overall it was a fun day, well organized as usual from Honda, and useful for improving riding skills and handling of the bike. I also met and talked to some nice guys and will keep in touch with some of them. I understand there's another more advanced 1 day big bike course. I will do that next time.

Here are some snapshots taken from the Sony cam video.

P.S. silly typo in the title :-) Should be Big Bike Course. Can't edit that?

Edited August 23, 2014 by metisdead
Topic title has been edited.

[NomadJoe]

They just had one here in Phuket but I wasn't able to attend. You get one free when you buy a bike from them. I have taken both the beginner and experienced rider course back home and found them invaluable. Increased my confidence 10 fold. I hope to take the next one offered in Phuket.

I wonder what certification agency, if any, the instructors might be certified through, or is it just a "teach what you know" deal. I spent some considerable effort talking to the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) about how to get their program to Thailand, and how to become a rider coach in order to teach rider safety in Thailand. They basically said "can not". Even if you become a rider coach, you have to be attached to an existing school, and internationally they only teach through Harley Davidson authorized dealers, and none in Thailand were participating. That was really disappointing to hear. I really thought MSF would be a little bit more helpful, having options for people wanting to teach in developing countries with high road mortality rates.

From the Phuket Big Wing rider safety course.

Good exit spotting.

I must say that purpose built track looks much better suited for the course than the parking lot they used here in Phuket.

Edited August 23, 2014 by NomadJoe

[ll2]

I have been thorugh one too.

After that a track day is better.

[rambling]

Haha we did this same exercise shown on your 4th pic, turning your head back to either side.

From what I understood from the instructor I had in the previous course they follow a Japanese curriculum. Some of the instruction material, videos and slides also look like they originated in Japan.

I know that for car safety driving there are private schools here. My wife was sent to one of those from work (US company) as many of their staff get company car and they're very serious about safety (cars are installed with driver behavior tracking chips! Recording speed, acceleration, deceleration rates, continuous driving times etc.).

Maybe there's room here for a private company to do the same with motorcycles and provide this service to some of the larger companies with fleets of messengers, delivery guys and the like.

[Fab5BKK]

Thanks Rambling! Sounds fun! I'd have to enroll soon

[andrewrooney]

I've been thinking about taking this course.

Do they have courses every day or is it something you have to schedule in advance?

[CBR250]

Thanks for the report - very helpful!

I would love to do some training here - I've done a few advanced rider courses in Australia, and learned a lot from them. Plus had great fun blasting around a racing circuit at the end of the day in the "free time" session.

So please - anyone with any information about when and where such courses are being held - give us all a heads up.

Ditto with advance notice about track days - I usually find out about these the day they are on.

[rambling]

Hi, iirc the course is held once a week. Best to call their office and check in advance. I registered over the phone and paid on that day.

Numbers and map here: http://www.aphonda.co.th/hondasafety/riding_center/Safety_Driving_Center_Bangkok.asp

[Gweiloman]

I have been to this as well but I left with the feeling that they got it wrong. What they taught is what they should teach ALL riders and riders should already know about this before getting on a big bike! Otherwise, they have should not be riding a big bike. If you can't do emergency braking, if you don't know how to hold the handlebars as if holding a bird in your hand, if you can't slalom (conscious counter steering), if you can't do U turns (not knowing which way to lean or where to look), you have no place on a big bike.

Subsequent to that, I went to track days and learnt a lot more useful information about what it takes to ride a big bike. On the track days, you are taught body position, throttle control and visual skills. For motorcyclists (more so than for car drivers), peripheral vision is a life saver (same as looking over your shoulder).

If I was in charge of licensing, I would ensure that every rider get a certification from one of these motorcycle manufacturers before being able to take the test.

[rambling]

Gweiloman, I agree with your observations. But we need to keep in mind 2 things:

1. I'm a beginner, have owned my very first bike for about 3-4 weeks now :-) so my feedback is from that point of view.

2. This is Thailand, where people can and do jump on a 800 or 1,000cc with zero big bike training.

In fact, most of this course was a repeat for me of the basic 4 days course I did in that same place just to get my license.The vast majority of people here don't go through this kind of training to get their license.

I've never been to the track on my bike but I have a couple of times with my car. My experience with that is mixed, for one it depends on the track, some are more suitable for beginners and some are less. Secondly it depends on the event itself, is it organized with guides or are you heading there with a bunch of friends. If you're sharing the track with others, are they about the same skills or more advanced. For example on one occasion when I was at Kaeng Krachang there was a group of semi pro drivers there and we were backmarkers and too slow almost throughout, it's neither fun nor safe.

I can certainly see the benefit of it though if done properly so I do hope to get a chance to do a track day which is geared for beginners and with appropriate instruction. Anyone with info on when/where these are held?

[Fab5BKK]

Yes, actually it seems that what they teach is what we've to learn to pass the bike license test in France.

Do they offer any "advanced" course?

[Gweiloman]

Gweiloman, I agree with your observations. But we need to keep in mind 2 things:

1. I'm a beginner, have owned my very first bike for about 3-4 weeks now :-) so my feedback is from that point of view.

2. This is Thailand, where people can and do jump on a 800 or 1,000cc with zero big bike training.

In fact, most of this course was a repeat for me of the basic 4 days course I did in that same place just to get my license.The vast majority of people here don't go through this kind of training to get their license.

I've never been to the track on my bike but I have a couple of times with my car. My experience with that is mixed, for one it depends on the track, some are more suitable for beginners and some are less. Secondly it depends on the event itself, is it organized with guides or are you heading there with a bunch of friends. If you're sharing the track with others, are they about the same skills or more advanced. For example on one occasion when I was at Kaeng Krachang there was a group of semi pro drivers there and we were backmarkers and too slow almost throughout, it's neither fun nor safe.

I can certainly see the benefit of it though if done properly so I do hope to get a chance to do a track day which is geared for beginners and with appropriate instruction. Anyone with info on when/where these are held?

Hi rambling,

You just missed out on a track day last weekend at Bira Circuit. It is organised by Pirelli and Superbike Magazine. There are usually about 9 groups with instructors. Normally 3 different classes - advanced, intermediate and beginners. However, if you want English speaking instructors, there are only two - Graham Knight and Ian Edmundson - and here, it tends to be a mix of intermediates and beginners. However, the group atmosphere is good, every one looks out for each other.

3 groups go out each time (with the instructor leading of course) for a track session of around 20 minutes. In between, there are debriefing sessions and the instructors are teaching some basic track stuff and pointing out individual mistakes (happens on the track as well).

There is scheduled to be another track session in Bira in October. Keep looking out on this forum. Information will be posted here (information was also posted on last weekend's event but I guessed that you missed it).

Hope to see you at the next session

[ll2]

Gweiloman, I agree with your observations. But we need to keep in mind 2 things:

1. I'm a beginner, have owned my very first bike for about 3-4 weeks now :-) so my feedback is from that point of view.

2. This is Thailand, where people can and do jump on a 800 or 1,000cc with zero big bike training.

In fact, most of this course was a repeat for me of the basic 4 days course I did in that same place just to get my license.The vast majority of people here don't go through this kind of training to get their license.

I've never been to the track on my bike but I have a couple of times with my car. My experience with that is mixed, for one it depends on the track, some are more suitable for beginners and some are less. Secondly it depends on the event itself, is it organized with guides or are you heading there with a bunch of friends. If you're sharing the track with others, are they about the same skills or more advanced. For example on one occasion when I was at Kaeng Krachang there was a group of semi pro drivers there and we were backmarkers and too slow almost throughout, it's neither fun nor safe.

I can certainly see the benefit of it though if done properly so I do hope to get a chance to do a track day which is geared for beginners and with appropriate instruction. Anyone with info on when/where these are held?

Pirelli track days are organized well and of course they put people in different groups according their skills and it is not dangerous as you go with your trainer with a slow pace at the beginning and cannot pass him. They do these events for years Rambling.

You are talking about Kaeng Krachan but i guess is it a car event?

Honda big bike course was fine for me as it was the first m.

But, it helps a lot for new riders and i strongly recommend such a course.

Why dont you join us next time? There are a lot of beginners on these events.

Track time adds a lot to the rider.

Next one will be in October, i will announce it here. But we sometime go to Thailand Circuit in Nakhon Chai Si and it is a slower and safer track, you can join us too man, anyone welcome!

[rambling]

Gweiloman, I agree with your observations. But we need to keep in mind 2 things:

1. I'm a beginner, have owned my very first bike for about 3-4 weeks now :-) so my feedback is from that point of view.

2. This is Thailand, where people can and do jump on a 800 or 1,000cc with zero big bike training.

In fact, most of this course was a repeat for me of the basic 4 days course I did in that same place just to get my license.The vast majority of people here don't go through this kind of training to get their license.

I've never been to the track on my bike but I have a couple of times with my car. My experience with that is mixed, for one it depends on the track, some are more suitable for beginners and some are less. Secondly it depends on the event itself, is it organized with guides or are you heading there with a bunch of friends. If you're sharing the track with others, are they about the same skills or more advanced. For example on one occasion when I was at Kaeng Krachang there was a group of semi pro drivers there and we were backmarkers and too slow almost throughout, it's neither fun nor safe.

I can certainly see the benefit of it though if done properly so I do hope to get a chance to do a track day which is geared for beginners and with appropriate instruction. Anyone with info on when/where these are held?

Pirelli track days are organized well and of course they put people in different groups according their skills and it is not dangerous as you go with your trainer with a slow pace at the beginning and cannot pass him. They do these events for years Rambling.

You are talking about Kaeng Krachan but i guess is it a car event?

Honda big bike course was fine for me as it was the first m.

But, it helps a lot for new riders and i strongly recommend such a course.

Why dont you join us next time? There are a lot of beginners on these events.

Track time adds a lot to the rider.

Next one will be in October, i will announce it here. But we sometime go to Thailand Circuit in Nakhon Chai Si and it is a slower and safer track, you can join us too man, anyone welcome!

Yeah what I mentioned about KK circuit was in a car, not organized by anyone, just a number of us heading out there (some of them were regulars, but not me). The Pirelli days you describe are obviously a different type of animal and sound much better.

Thanks, yes I'll be interested to join. I've never been to Nakhon Chai Si (only KK and Bira) I'm following you on Facebook and of course checking out this forum. Actually I think I was aware of the last track day but thought it was a bit too soon for me right after getting my bike. I wanted a bit more time on it at my own pace and time. Let me know when you're heading out there I'll try to make it this time.

[metisdead]

Abusive and disruptive posts have been removed.

[taninthai]

I have been to this as well but I left with the feeling that they got it wrong. What they taught is what they should teach ALL riders and riders should already know about this before getting on a big bike! Otherwise, they have should not be riding a big bike. If you can't do emergency braking, if you don't know how to hold the handlebars as if holding a bird in your hand, if you can't slalom (conscious counter steering), if you can't do U turns (not knowing which way to lean or where to look), you have no place on a big bike.

Subsequent to that, I went to track days and learnt a lot more useful information about what it takes to ride a big bike. On the track days, you are taught body position, throttle control and visual skills. For motorcyclists (more so than for car drivers), peripheral vision is a life saver (same as looking over your shoulder).

If I was in charge of licensing, I would ensure that every rider get a certification from one of these motorcycle manufacturers before being able to take the test.

agree this looks like the equivalent of the cbt ( compulsory basic training) which every one in the uk has to do before they go on the road,FairPlay to honda for doing it but they should be incorporating this into the thai bike test.

[ll2]

Gweiloman, I agree with your observations. But we need to keep in mind 2 things:

1. I'm a beginner, have owned my very first bike for about 3-4 weeks now :-) so my feedback is from that point of view.

2. This is Thailand, where people can and do jump on a 800 or 1,000cc with zero big bike training.

In fact, most of this course was a repeat for me of the basic 4 days course I did in that same place just to get my license.The vast majority of people here don't go through this kind of training to get their license.

I've never been to the track on my bike but I have a couple of times with my car. My experience with that is mixed, for one it depends on the track, some are more suitable for beginners and some are less. Secondly it depends on the event itself, is it organized with guides or are you heading there with a bunch of friends. If you're sharing the track with others, are they about the same skills or more advanced. For example on one occasion when I was at Kaeng Krachang there was a group of semi pro drivers there and we were backmarkers and too slow almost throughout, it's neither fun nor safe.

I can certainly see the benefit of it though if done properly so I do hope to get a chance to do a track day which is geared for beginners and with appropriate instruction. Anyone with info on when/where these are held?

Pirelli track days are organized well and of course they put people in different groups according their skills and it is not dangerous as you go with your trainer with a slow pace at the beginning and cannot pass him. They do these events for years Rambling.

You are talking about Kaeng Krachan but i guess is it a car event?

Honda big bike course was fine for me as it was the first m.

But, it helps a lot for new riders and i strongly recommend such a course.

Why dont you join us next time? There are a lot of beginners on these events.

Track time adds a lot to the rider.

Next one will be in October, i will announce it here. But we sometime go to Thailand Circuit in Nakhon Chai Si and it is a slower and safer track, you can join us too man, anyone welcome!

Yeah what I mentioned about KK circuit was in a car, not organized by anyone, just a number of us heading out there (some of them were regulars, but not me). The Pirelli days you describe are obviously a different type of animal and sound much better.

Thanks, yes I'll be interested to join. I've never been to Nakhon Chai Si (only KK and Bira) I'm following you on Facebook and of course checking out this forum. Actually I think I was aware of the last track day but thought it was a bit too soon for me right after getting my bike. I wanted a bit more time on it at my own pace and time. Let me know when you're heading out there I'll try to make it this time.

cool. sure inform you rambling. there are always some beginners there joining these events with their new bikes.

sure it will be beneficial for you and it is still beneficial for me.

[wantan]

I have been to this as well but I left with the feeling that they got it wrong. What they taught is what they should teach ALL riders and riders should already know about this before getting on a big bike! Otherwise, they have should not be riding a big bike. If you can't do emergency braking, if you don't know how to hold the handlebars as if holding a bird in your hand, if you can't slalom (conscious counter steering), if you can't do U turns (not knowing which way to lean or where to look), you have no place on a big bike.

Subsequent to that, I went to track days and learnt a lot more useful information about what it takes to ride a big bike. On the track days, you are taught body position, throttle control and visual skills. For motorcyclists (more so than for car drivers), peripheral vision is a life saver (same as looking over your shoulder).

If I was in charge of licensing, I would ensure that every rider get a certification from one of these motorcycle manufacturers before being able to take the test.

agree this looks like the equivalent of the cbt ( compulsory basic training) which every one in the uk has to do before they go on the road,FairPlay to honda for doing it but they should be incorporating this into the thai bike test.

Dont think so. This is part of the freedom we all like in Thailand. If you want to make such training compulsory you would first have to split the bike license in different levels for small and big bikes. Doesnt make much sense to do such training on a Wave if later you ride a Hayabusa or the other way around.

Edited August 25, 2014 by wantan

[rambling]

I just saw on Suzuki Society Thailand Facebook page that they're going to offer a "Suzuki Big Bike Safety Riding" course. This will be their first such event coming up on 30th Aug, limited to 10 people (probably full by now). Good to see more manufacturers taking steps to help raise training standards and safety riding awareness.

The post is in Thai, and can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/SuzukiSociety/posts/10152763442616414

คอร์สอบรม Suzuki Big Bike Safety Riding ครั้งที่ 1 เปิดแล้วค่าาาา ><
ลูกค้ารถจักรยานยนต์ซูซูกิ “ BIG BIKE ” ท่านใดที่สนใจเข้าอบรมวิธีการการขับขี่ และเทคนิคการขับขี่ต่างๆอย่างถูกวิธีสามารถลงทะเบียนเพื่อรับสิทธิ์เข้าอบรมการขับขี่ โดย
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[Gweiloman]

I have been to this as well but I left with the feeling that they got it wrong. What they taught is what they should teach ALL riders and riders should already know about this before getting on a big bike! Otherwise, they have should not be riding a big bike. If you can't do emergency braking, if you don't know how to hold the handlebars as if holding a bird in your hand, if you can't slalom (conscious counter steering), if you can't do U turns (not knowing which way to lean or where to look), you have no place on a big bike.

Subsequent to that, I went to track days and learnt a lot more useful information about what it takes to ride a big bike. On the track days, you are taught body position, throttle control and visual skills. For motorcyclists (more so than for car drivers), peripheral vision is a life saver (same as looking over your shoulder).

If I was in charge of licensing, I would ensure that every rider get a certification from one of these motorcycle manufacturers before being able to take the test.

agree this looks like the equivalent of the cbt ( compulsory basic training) which every one in the uk has to do before they go on the road,FairPlay to honda for doing it but they should be incorporating this into the thai bike test.

Dont think so. This is part of the freedom we all like in Thailand. If you want to make such training compulsory you would first have to split the bike license in different levels for small and big bikes. Doesnt make much sense to do such training on a Wave if later you ride a Hayabusa or the other way around.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there wantan. I'm all for the freedom that we enjoy but that freedom should not come at the risk of losing lives. I enjoy the freedom of being able to go above the speed limit (safely, imho) knowing that the chances of being caught are minimal and even if caught, only a small penalty. I love the freedom of being able to park my bike almost anywhere I want as long as I exercise some common sense and do not block traffic, be it motorised or by human power.

However, I think the line has to be drawn if this freedom extends to allowing unqualified and untrained individuals to drive / ride vehicles which have the potential of injuring and even killing others. There must be some rules / laws - not as strictly enforced as it is in the western world as we know it but a slight tightening would be beneficial to all in the long run. Heck, it might even allow big bikes on bridges and tollways, like they do in Malaysia.

[wantan]

^

But the problem is that such training if compulsory would complicate everything. Or do you want everyone doing it on a Wave? Imo that doesnt make much sense. Imo such training makes most sense if people are doing it by their own choice. This creates a positive atmosphere and people may want to do it again some day (or want to join a more advenced training).

[ll2]

i would be happy if they use tiered riding license system here in Thailand.

goes like 15 hp, 30 hp and 60 hp, 1 years each and then unlimited license.

and training/introduction better be mandatory and serious for each bike you buy not only once!

this kind of system sure reduces accidents and fatality, yes not very practical and a burden but even if it saves the life of only one rider, it is worth imo.

Edited August 25, 2014 by ll2

[wantan]

But they dont use a tiered riding license system

I think there are many things that are much more important to save lives, eg. to enforce the helmet law, to effectively stop people from driving drunk, to make them turn on their lights at night and so on. Whats the use of having people doing compulsory riding training if then they ride without helmet in real life? TiT, and i am sure most of us are happy it is not our homecountry. I vote against tiered licenses.

And if tiered then please same for cars. 80hp one year, 150hp one year, 300hp one year and then unlimited

Edited August 25, 2014 by wantan

[Gweiloman]

But they dont use a tiered riding license system

I think there are many things that are much more important to save lives, eg. to enforce the helmet law, to effectively stop people from driving drunk, to make them turn on their lights at night and so on. Whats the use of having people doing compulsory riding training if then they ride without helmet in real life? TiT, and i am sure most of us are happy it is not our homecountry. I vote against tiered licenses.

And if tiered then please same for cars. 80hp one year, 150hp one year, 300hp one year and then unlimited

Yes, I wouldn't want a tiered riding license system either, otherwise I would still be allowed to ride only my PCX.

Which is why it is all the more important that there should be some sort of CBT!

[ll2]

But they dont use a tiered riding license system

I think there are many things that are much more important to save lives, eg. to enforce the helmet law, to effectively stop people from driving drunk, to make them turn on their lights at night and so on. Whats the use of having people doing compulsory riding training if then they ride without helmet in real life? TiT, and i am sure most of us are happy it is not our homecountry. I vote against tiered licenses.

And if tiered then please same for cars. 80hp one year, 150hp one year, 300hp one year and then unlimited

no, i am not. i live in thailand for some time.

so, i dont think like, 'f.....k it, it is not my country'

you are right too, enforcing the laws might help as a start but a tiered riding license system sure helps to save lives.

[rambling]

For those who expressed interest, there's a more advanced course coming up on Sunday Sept. 28th, held at Honda. It's a one day event and costs 1,000 Baht. If interested you can call Honda at 027353999 #0 to register.

A few people from the previous big bike day and myself will be going.

Cheers.

[ll2]

Yeah i know the guy. Glp racing. They say good things about him. Some of my buddies also attend his courses.

But this guy is not related with honda and also do private courses for a group or individuals.

Edited September 2, 2014 by ll2

[ll2]

For those who expressed interest, there's a more advanced course coming up on Sunday Sept. 28th, held at Honda. It's a one day event and costs 1,000 Baht. If interested you can call Honda at 027353999 #0 to register.

A few people from the previous big bike day and myself will be going.

Cheers.

Rambling, change your tires to better ones if you didnt maybe a set pirelli as it will make you learn faster on these advaced courses with better grip, lean angle, control, feedback and confidence.

[rambling]

For those who expressed interest, there's a more advanced course coming up on Sunday Sept. 28th, held at Honda. It's a one day event and costs 1,000 Baht. If interested you can call Honda at 027353999 #0 to register.

A few people from the previous big bike day and myself will be going.

Cheers.

Rambling, change your tires to better ones if you didnt maybe a set pirelli as it will make you learn faster on these advaced courses with better grip, lean angle, control, feedback and confidence.

ll2, it's tempting but there's still so much thread left on these tires, they did only 1,900 KM, it feels like a waste to get rid of them so soon.

Did you have the Diablo Rosso 2 in mind?

I'm thinking about staying with touring type, so was eyeing the Michelin Pilot Road 4 (equivalent to Pirelli Angel GT). They're about 14K for the pair. I'll have to think about it :-)

[ll2]

For those who expressed interest, there's a more advanced course coming up on Sunday Sept. 28th, held at Honda. It's a one day event and costs 1,000 Baht. If interested you can call Honda at 027353999 #0 to register.

A few people from the previous big bike day and myself will be going.

Cheers.

Rambling, change your tires to better ones if you didnt maybe a set pirelli as it will make you learn faster on these advaced courses with better grip, lean angle, control, feedback and confidence.

ll2, it's tempting but there's still so much thread left on these tires, they did only 1,900 KM, it feels like a waste to get rid of them so soon.

Did you have the Diablo Rosso 2 in mind?

I'm thinking about staying with touring type, so was eyeing the Michelin Pilot Road 4 (equivalent to Pirelli Angel GT). They're about 14K for the pair. I'll have to think about it :-)

rosso2s or rosso corsas. both will make you learn faster.

and rosso2s are at 5000 km now on my cbr650f and still lots of tread. and they are also good for touring - actually rosso2 s are real world tires for touring, commuting etc. - durable and sure more grip than michelin pilot 4s which will make you feel a lot confidence. Wet performance of rosso2s are also cool, i can confirm it 100 percent nowadays!

Michelins pilot 4s are also good tires though, better wet performance than rosso2s and a bit more durable. but that is it.

you can sell your stock tires to offset the price of the new set. just my humble opinion rambling.