Thailand 'most Risky Place For Holidaymakers'

[kerryk]

Food borne illness is a problem in Thailand. It is a problem because there is no agency to enforce sanitation laws. I have been in the restaurant business all of my life and have been in over 50 restaurant kitchens in Thailand.

They are beyond dirty. A big part of the problem is the dish washing areas and the quality of water used to wash dishes and pots and pans and produce. It is nice to see cats in restaurants here and I have seen quite a few but I have also seen a number of rats and seeing rats in the daytime means there are many many more in hiding. Rats rarely come out in the daytime unless there is a very large group of them around.

Cross contamination between pork, chicken and beef is very common as is lower than necessary holding temperatures.

I have found that the large grocery store kitchens are an exception to this rule as are most of the Japanese kitchens I have been in.

I have not been in large hotel kitchens but I assume they are better.

I have also noticed the shelf life of meat in my refrigerator is only two days as opposed to three or four that I had experienced in the West. I assume this is because they are held or transported at higher temperatures than is ideal before I bought them.

Street food is very easy to observe and I eat chicken and pork on the street every day. Rarely has it caused a problem.

Avoid anything with mayonnaise like the plague. The same applies to almost any dairy products in Thailand. The Thais do not do a good job dealing with dairy products.

Worms are common here and if you ask most Thais will have had them at least once or know someone who had them. In the West they are common in dogs and cats but rarely people.

I have had mild food poisoning three times in the last year all from reputable restaurants.

If I was on a vacation here I would take Norfloxactn on a daily basis as a precaution. Since I am not a tourist I don’t take anything on a daily basis but do take Cravit and Imodium at the first sign of diarrhea. I have found that one pill a day for a couple of days seems to knock it out very well.

I also carry charcoal pills and take them if I suspect anything I am eating is not quite right or if it is very spicy.

Cravit, Norfloxactn charcoal pills are all available without prescription here.

To sum it all up as a restaurant owner I appreciate the fact that there is no health inspector coming around to bother me like there was back home but that is because I think I don’t need one. Having said that the absence of health and sanitation laws also promotes illness.

I do eat rare beef or rare tuna at Japanese restaurants but that is the only place.

Thais don’t seem to cook chicken very well done and they don’t refrigerate eggs I would assume this is the source of most varieties of food poisoning, salmonella. E coli I imagine is also quite common. Rarely are these life threatening for most people.

On a plus note I have heard that the charcoal pills may prevent being drugged in a bar and Cravit certainly knocks out most minor social diseases.

[TBWG]

Thailand 'most risky place for holidaymakers'

Emma Gunby

Monday July 10, 2006

Guardian

Thailand is the most hazardous destination for British holidaymakers, where they are most likely to suffer food poisoning, theft, traffic accidents or the loss of belongings

.

A survey based on more than 60,000 claims made to Norwich Union in 2005 found travellers to South Africa were the most likely to suffer violent robberies or lose belongings in transit.

Austria was named the most likely place to suffer a skiing or snowboarding accident, and the Czech Republic had the highest number of claims for pickpocketing.

The safest destination was Ireland, said Norwich Union.

Hi

After 20 odd years of coming to Thailand have only ever had 1 minor food poisioning problem and that was with home cooking!!

On the plus side there is no mention of violence being a problem for tourists in LOS. Which is more than can be said for the UK.

Just a week ago my son was making his way home in the early hours of the morning on foot from a company party, a car pulled up and demanded some petrol money, to which he replied that it was not his problem, this resulted in him being hit with a socket wrench needing 7 stitches to his forehead, 2 to his scalp, 2 black eyes and broken glasses. To protect himself from a further blow he put up his arm which resulted in a broken arm and finger, at this stage he decieded perhaps they had a valid point and gave them his wallet.

Now the sad fact is that everyone has told him just how lucky he is !!! It could have been a knife with far worse consequences, a large proportion of the youths today seem to carry knives as a matter of course and are prepared to use them. Where did this occur in the middle of Brighton. Southcoast of England. If that is lucky give me LOS any day.

I wonder where the UK features in any similar overseas insurance company data?

TBWG

[sadman]

The only times I've had stomach problems have been after eating in restaurants serving Western-style food (pretty rare), perhaps because not much is sold, there is a lack of knowledge about storage/preparation and so on. I've never had difficulties eating off the street carts or in lanahans.

As for general safety - if you look for trouble, you'll find it anywhere. If you don't, you're probably ok. I would rather take my chances in LOS than in London, where I currently live.

[opothai]

A report by one of the UK's leading insurance companies outlines details of risks travellers to Thailand face based on the insurance companies statistics (Claims).

And at once we have cries of 'Rubbish'.

Perhaps some thought and moreover some action on the part of the Thai government to deal with problems foreigners face in Thailand might be more apropriate.

Don't blame the news bringer - Fix the problem.

straight to the point ghouse, as i would expect, and true

this thread is turning into a food poisoning topic, and that is only one of the problems mentioned .

the thais CAN do something for themselves in all departments

food - well that has been covered and it's 50/50, still could do better

theft - get a police force that helps the tourist. more so than it does now

traffic - this is a big problem that we all know about, and again the government need to inject cash into research and a problamatic approach needs to be adopted into solving why the thailand IS so dangerous and then take steps to improve.

loss of belongings - again there is a reason this is mentioned so look into the problem and do something [ although a lot of false claims will come from certain types ]

it is senseless comparing thailand with other destinations as this report IS about thailand and unless something is done it will not go away [ ostrich head in the sand scenario will not help ]

we all know and love thailand, even i or any other person can see what is happenning and could adopt an approach to satisfy these problems to a better degree, why can the government with all it's reserves and high powered and intelligent thinktanks do something.

Edited July 10, 2006 by opothai

[Lacoste]

The only times I've had stomach problems have been after eating in restaurants

I've never had difficulties eating off the street carts or in lanahans.

Arai na Khrap?

[thaigerd]

Food borne illness is a problem in Thailand. It is a problem because there is no agency to enforce sanitation laws. I have been in the restaurant business all of my life and have been in over 50 restaurant kitchens in Thailand.

They are beyond dirty. A big part of the problem is the dish washing areas and the quality of water used to wash dishes and pots and pans and produce. It is nice to see cats in restaurants here and I have seen quite a few but I have also seen a number of rats and seeing rats in the daytime means there are many many more in hiding. Rats rarely come out in the daytime unless there is a very large group of them around.

Cross contamination between pork, chicken and beef is very common as is lower than necessary holding temperatures.

I have found that the large grocery store kitchens are an exception to this rule as are most of the Japanese kitchens I have been in.

I have not been in large hotel kitchens but I assume they are better.

I have also noticed the shelf life of meat in my refrigerator is only two days as opposed to three or four that I had experienced in the West. I assume this is because they are held or transported at higher temperatures than is ideal before I bought them.

Street food is very easy to observe and I eat chicken and pork on the street every day. Rarely has it caused a problem.

Avoid anything with mayonnaise like the plague. The same applies to almost any dairy products in Thailand. The Thais do not do a good job dealing with dairy products.

Worms are common here and if you ask most Thais will have had them at least once or know someone who had them. In the West they are common in dogs and cats but rarely people.

I have had mild food poisoning three times in the last year all from reputable restaurants.

If I was on a vacation here I would take Norfloxactn on a daily basis as a precaution. Since I am not a tourist I don’t take anything on a daily basis but do take Cravit and Imodium at the first sign of diarrhea. I have found that one pill a day for a couple of days seems to knock it out very well.

I also carry charcoal pills and take them if I suspect anything I am eating is not quite right or if it is very spicy.

Cravit, Norfloxactn charcoal pills are all available without prescription here.

To sum it all up as a restaurant owner I appreciate the fact that there is no health inspector coming around to bother me like there was back home but that is because I think I don’t need one. Having said that the absence of health and sanitation laws also promotes illness.

I do eat rare beef or rare tuna at Japanese restaurants but that is the only place.

Thais don’t seem to cook chicken very well done and they don’t refrigerate eggs I would assume this is the source of most varieties of food poisoning, salmonella. E coli I imagine is also quite common. Rarely are these life threatening for most people.

On a plus note I have heard that the charcoal pills may prevent being drugged in a bar and Cravit certainly knocks out most minor social diseases.

Now working as a Chef for 13 years here in Thailand and for some places let me tell you my observations:

It;s getting much better with all sad points you've mentioned before.

More and more hotels and restaurants are implementing HACCP (the places I've worked )

but still not very satisfying at all. Staff just has no knowledge about bacteria etc.

A very good example from Phuket FantaSea:

Every night when they close down their restaurant they give all ready cooked food for their staff, 5 Baht per plastic bag, a good idea I think and no danger about reheating the next day.

I eat a lot of Thai food in restaurants and from street vendors but never ever had any problems.

Gerd

[Phil Conners]

I've had food poisoning in Thailand more than anywhere else in the world, and more often than not it was from the "better" western places in Pattaya.

The buffet places are the worst.

[likite]

Just a week ago my son was making his way home in the early hours of the morning on foot from a company party, a car pulled up and demanded some petrol money, to which he replied that it was not his problem, this resulted in him being hit with a socket wrench needing 7 stitches to his forehead, 2 to his scalp, 2 black eyes and broken glasses. To protect himself from a further blow he put up his arm which resulted in a broken arm and finger, at this stage he decieded perhaps they had a valid point and gave them his wallet.

Now the sad fact is that everyone has told him just how lucky he is !!! It could have been a knife with far worse consequences, a large proportion of the youths today seem to carry knives as a matter of course and are prepared to use them. Where did this occur in the middle of Brighton. Southcoast of England. If that is lucky give me LOS any day.

I think something like this can happen anywhere not just UK but here in Thailand. All you got to do is read the local rags and these are only the ones that get reported. Some guy in Pattaya was shot in a bar all he was doing was watching the world cup.

The Norwich Union findings are something living in Thailand we all know about too well. LOS is not a land of serenity.

[meadish_sweetball]

A report by one of the UK's leading insurance companies outlines details of risks travellers to Thailand face based on the insurance companies statistics (Claims).

And at once we have cries of 'Rubbish'.

Perhaps some thought and moreover some action on the part of the Thai government to deal with problems foreigners face in Thailand might be more apropriate.

Don't blame the news bringer - Fix the problem.

To be fair, Thailand attracts a fair number of scamsters trying to cash in on insurance money as well... perhaps this should be taken into account.

Of course that is not to say that thefts do not occur.

[meadish_sweetball]

The only times I've had stomach problems have been after eating in restaurants

I've never had difficulties eating off the street carts or in lanahans.

Arai na Khrap?

I assume he means 'lanahan' = 'ráan dtaam sàng' although 'ráan ahaan' is actually a word for midrange restaurants.

[sadman]

The only times I've had stomach problems have been after eating in restaurants

I've never had difficulties eating off the street carts or in lanahans.

Arai na Khrap?

I assume he means 'lanahan' = 'ráan dtaam sàng' although 'ráan ahaan' is actually a word for midrange restaurants.

Sorry for my poor Thai. I mean the little (often ramshackle) eating places by the side of the road, usually with plastic chairs and tables, where you will get rice and chicken or pork. Very basic, very cheap. Always thought they were called lanahans (sp?).

[sadman]

Regarding the report. AOL have been running a survey as a result of the article, the question being: Where would you feel least safe? South Africa (54%), Britain (20%), Thailand (17%) and the Caribbean (9%).

Personally, I've been to all of them and haven't felt unsafe anywhere.

[meadish_sweetball]

The only times I've had stomach problems have been after eating in restaurants

I've never had difficulties eating off the street carts or in lanahans.

Arai na Khrap?

I assume he means 'lanahan' = 'ráan dtaam sàng' although 'ráan ahaan' is actually a word for midrange restaurants.

Sorry for my poor Thai. I mean the little (often ramshackle) eating places by the side of the road, usually with plastic chairs and tables, where you will get rice and chicken or pork. Very basic, very cheap. Always thought they were called lanahans (sp?).

No worries, didnt mean to come off as a smartass either (but I know I do).

Anyways, 'lanahan' (ráan ahaan) usually refers to midrange restaurants like I said.

The type of establishment you are talking about is usually called 'ráan dtaam sàng' - they will make the standard dishes 'according to your order' - dtaam sàng.

A nicer variation of a 'dtaam sàng', perhaps with proper plates, and non-plastic chairs can be called 'ráan ahaan'.

ráan means shop. aahaan means food. dtaam means 'follow'; 'according to', and 'among'; 'along' - and 'sàng' means 'to order'.

The top notch/gourmet restaurants are called 'phattakhaan'.

Lacoste was probably confused since your post seemed contradictory, assuming restaurant=ráan ahaan.

[Donz]

Im safe where ever I go

[sadman]

No worries, didnt mean to come off as a smartass either (but I know I do).

Anyways, 'lanahan' (ráan ahaan) usually refers to midrange restaurants like I said.

The type of establishment you are talking about is usually called 'ráan dtaam sàng' - they will make the standard dishes 'according to your order' - dtaam sàng.

A nicer variation of a 'dtaam sàng', perhaps with proper plates, and non-plastic chairs can be called 'ráan ahaan'.

ráan means shop. aahaan means food. dtaam means 'follow'; 'according to', and 'among'; 'along' - and 'sàng' means 'to order'.

The top notch/gourmet restaurants are called 'phattakhaan'.

Lacoste was probably confused since your post seemed contradictory, assuming restaurant=ráan ahaan.

Thanks for that. Will I ever speak Thai well, I ask myself?

[Charma]

This story has just appeared as the headline on Yahoo UK home page.

Thailand 'the most hazardous place' for British tourists Monday July 10, 01:53 PM

LONDON (AFP) - Thailand is the most hazardous destination for British holidaymakers, according to a leading insurance provider's analysis of claims made by its globe-trotting clients.

The Southeast Asian nation -- famous for its food, beaches and Buddhist temples -- was the place where tourists were most likely to suffer food poisoning, theft, traffic accidents and lost belongings, Norwich Union said.

Travellers to South Africa were the most likely to suffer violent robberies or lose their belongings in transit, while Austria was the most likely place to suffer a skiing or snowboarding accident.

The Czech Republic had the highest number of claims from holidaymakers who had been pickpocketed, and the Caribbean was the worst place for insect bites and stings.

The safest place to holiday was Ireland, followed by Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and France -- all within the European Union, and just a few hours at the most from any British airport.

"The purpose of our research is not to worry tourists looking forward to their summer holidays, but just to make them aware of what can go wrong when they're away from home," said Norwich Union travel product manager Dawn McMullan.

The survey was based on more than 60,000 claims made to Norwich Union in 2005 -- the calendar year after the December 24, 2004 tsunami that killed 5,400 people in Thailand and ravaged many of the country's seaside resorts.

It's interesting as to what they mean by "lost belongings". Is this robbery, theft from the hotel room or absentmindedly leaving your genuine elephant carving in the back of a tuk tuk?

[Donz]

It would be interesting too see how many british people travel to these places also or if they worked this out as a percentage or just used numbers.

Well im an Aussie so im safe

[meadish_sweetball]

No worries, didnt mean to come off as a smartass either (but I know I do).

Anyways, 'lanahan' (ráan ahaan) usually refers to midrange restaurants like I said.

The type of establishment you are talking about is usually called 'ráan dtaam sàng' - they will make the standard dishes 'according to your order' - dtaam sàng.

A nicer variation of a 'dtaam sàng', perhaps with proper plates, and non-plastic chairs can be called 'ráan ahaan'.

ráan means shop. aahaan means food. dtaam means 'follow'; 'according to', and 'among'; 'along' - and 'sàng' means 'to order'.

The top notch/gourmet restaurants are called 'phattakhaan'.

Lacoste was probably confused since your post seemed contradictory, assuming restaurant=ráan ahaan.

Thanks for that. Will I ever speak Thai well, I ask myself?

I ask myself the same. I have a long, long way to go. Being able to fully comprehend the newspaper would be nice.

[bkkmadness]

It's interesting as to what they mean by "lost belongings". Is this robbery, theft from the hotel room or absentmindedly leaving your genuine elephant carving in the back of a tuk tuk?

Or a nice little insurance claim.

[Charma]

Well im an Aussie so im safe

Donz

I get this impression of you - the guy from Crocodile Dundee - the big guy from Dundee's hometown pub in the outback! Anywhere near?

[qualtrough]

A few years back in a different incarnation I worked for the local branch of a MNC in their food safety division. We did a free food inspection at a 4 or 5 star hotel by the river that will remain unnamed. There were insects crawling all over the bakery, and I saw a rat out of the corner of my eye. When I went to look closer I found a rat trap where it had disappeared. We did plate counts for bacteria for the food in the buffet and many of them were alarmingly high. There were also all kinds of basic food handling rule violations, esp. with cross contamination, inadequate washing facilities, etc. Not very impressive. On the other hand we went to an MK kitchen and they scored very well.

I don't worry about it too much. I did come down with Giardia once in BKK and something up in Chiang Mai that caused food to exit my body from two orifices simultaneously, but those were the most serious cases in 15 years. Slight tummy upsets now and then.

[qualtrough]

No worries, didnt mean to come off as a smartass either (but I know I do).

Anyways, 'lanahan' (ráan ahaan) usually refers to midrange restaurants like I said.

The type of establishment you are talking about is usually called 'ráan dtaam sàng' - they will make the standard dishes 'according to your order' - dtaam sàng.

A nicer variation of a 'dtaam sàng', perhaps with proper plates, and non-plastic chairs can be called 'ráan ahaan'.

ráan means shop. aahaan means food. dtaam means 'follow'; 'according to', and 'among'; 'along' - and 'sàng' means 'to order'.

The top notch/gourmet restaurants are called 'phattakhaan'.

Lacoste was probably confused since your post seemed contradictory, assuming restaurant=ráan ahaan.

meadish_sweetball--I think you are being a bit pedantic here. While you are technically correct that small establishments may be described as 'ráan dtaam sàng', I would wager that if you stopped a Thai in the street, pointed to such an establishment, and asked him/her what it was more often than not they would reply 'ráan ahaan'--at least where I live.

At the risk of sounding pedantic myself, or even churlish, I would also quibble with your definition of 'phattakhaan' as referring to top notch or gourmet restaurants. I think the biggest indicator of 'phattakhaan' status is the size of the restaurant and its facilities, e.g. its ability to cater to large parties via separate rooms, etc. Certainly there are many small 'gourmet' restaurants that would never be referred to as 'phattakhaan', and many 'phattakhaan' that do not offer gourmet food or top notch dining atmosphere.

[Mossfinn]

Well im an Aussie so im safe

Donz

I get this impression of you - the guy from Crocodile Dundee - the big guy from Dundee's hometown pub in the outback! Anywhere near?

Donk, I believe, near enough spelling as well, but then I could be wrong.

Both sound like good guys though.

Good luck

Moss

[Mossfinn]

The only times I've had stomach problems have been after eating in restaurants

I've never had difficulties eating off the street carts or in lanahans.

Arai na Khrap?

I assume he means 'lanahan' = 'ráan dtaam sàng' although 'ráan ahaan' is actually a word for midrange restaurants.

Sorry for my poor Thai. I mean the little (often ramshackle) eating places by the side of the road, usually with plastic chairs and tables, where you will get rice and chicken or pork. Very basic, very cheap. Always thought they were called lanahans (sp?).

I thought 'Lanaghans' was an Irish bar!!!

Moss

[Jai Yen Yen]

YES! I totally agree. Thailand is far too dangerous. I think many types of tourists should consider other places to go. Perhaps East Los Angeles would appeal or maybe Watts or even Compton. Rio in South America is a great place also if you have an armed guard after dark...

Couldn't agree more! Please tourists , STAY AWAY! This place is sooooo dangerous.. it's not even worth your time looking at those holiday brochures...

Don't be a wally and visit Nana Plaza if you are old, fat and are attracted to Thai women.

I would have thought that this is exactly what you should do if you are old, fat and attracted to Thai wo

men.

Never been there in my life. Why is this place again?

I believe that part about food poisoning. My worst experience w/ food poisoning was in LOS. I was bedridden for a week w/ cramps and diarrhea. When I vacation in LOS, it's usually diarrhea on a daily basis.

Same for me, twice, last one was really serious.

Yeah, always sick here, never a day goes by without stomach pains, diarrhoeal, etc. No place for foreigners. Best find somewhere else.

[LOS4words]

Im tired of people being scared shitless. Every time in Thailand some expat or tourist is warning me about the dangers of Thailand. "Watch out for ladyboys they'll rob you and kick your ass", "don't even look at thai guy or he'll kick your ass"

You wouldn't believe the crap i have gotten away with in Thailand over the years and then you hear about some poor sap who gets shanked for being loud. Its all luck of the draw, or lack thereof

The day i start compromising my fun to feel safe is the day i leave LOS for good.

[bkkmadness]

Im tired of people being scared shitless. Every time in Thailand some expat or tourist is warning me about the dangers of Thailand. "Watch out for ladyboys they'll rob you and kick your ass", "don't even look at thai guy or he'll kick your ass"

Dont make a thai lose face, they'll shoot you dead.

[Nignoy]

It would be interesting too see how many british people travel to these places also or if they worked this out as a percentage or just used numbers.

Well im an Aussie so im safe

but not in australia surelYy, watch channel 9 at 6.30 this evening a today report on the 15000 daily cases of foodpoisoning here in oz,as far as tourist safety goes, we have got the biggest tourist cemetary in the world its called the Outback,police more triggerhappy than thailand, and we wont mention road safety, this is becoming a thread about food poisoning,not about the stone age laws which are slowly being dragged into the 21st century in thailand,Los is still a safe place to live, it aint perfect but kin ell neither is any where else. we all know the does and donts if not tough titty, neighbours kids were fishing in the creek behind the house last friday morning, found a body, 2 bullet holes in the head , a drug related killing, sadly not patpong or pattaya but downtown Beachmere a sleepy little village on the sunshine coast, Sxxxx happens everywhere Nignoy

[jackr]

One problem with food poisoning is that many food sellers cook their dishes then, if they don't sell it all by the end of trading, they re-heat it and offer it for sale the next day.

Yep. I try never to eat at a restaurant too early or too late for this reason... anywhere.

Your paranoid and your letting your paranoia dictate your eating habbits. I'm glad i dont have to dine with you.

Me too... and <deleted> are you btw?

[lampard10]

Don't be a wally and visit Nana Plaza if you are old, fat and are attracted to Thai women.

I would have thought that this is exactly what you should do if you are old, fat and attracted to Thai women.

Excuse me please. No racist comments. I'm old, fat AND ugly.